Is doing PsyD better than doing a PhD? Which has better job prospectives?

[xoxo111]

Hi all,

I’m new to this particular forum. I’m interested in doing PsyD and I was hoping for some more info. My undergrad gpa is 3.87 and that too with double majors bio and psych. I’ve As in all my psych courses including research design and statistics if that’s relevant. I can’t get into a PhD program because I don’t have much experience in research, except two semesters of independent study, but no publications. Besides, if I make a career in psychology, then I want my experience to extend to caring for patients and perhaps some university teaching. Currently, I’m looking at master’s programs to do in UK because I want to get the clinical hours for PsyD programs. I was wondering if the job perspectives are good for PsyD? I’ve heard various things from it’s not worth it and that a PhD is certainly better, and so I was hoping for some insight.

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[mypointlesspov]

Any good/reputable PsyD will require just as much research experience as a PhD. Most PsyDs are not funded either whereas many PhDs come with tuition and a stipend. Also, academia heavily favors PhDs if you're really interested in teaching beyond being an adjunct or something.

I'd say to find a volunteer research position and work on getting that experience for a few years, then apply for PhD programs.

 

[Sanman]

Agreed with the above. PhDs go from moderately research oriented to very research oriented. PsyDs can be not very invested in research to moderately research oriented. If you are willing to do research, you are more likely to get funding and a stipend even if you go on to be a clinician. If you are against research, I would consider a licensable master's degree in addition to a PsyD as job prospects can be similar. Of you are willing to do more research, check out the Insiders Guide to clinical and counseling Psych by Norcross et al. It will help you find programs that are more or less research intensive that you may be interested in.

 

[PsyDr]

Assuming each university is equal: a PhD has better opportunities, fewer barriers, and other good stuff.

 

[xoxo111]

The problem is idk what I want to do research on. I don’t want to pick a topic and realise I’m not really interested in it later on. I was hoping to get into a PhD program, take classes for a year, and figure out what I want to do research on but of course no PhD program would allow that. I was thinking of doing a master’s in behavioural analysis or something of that sort.

 

[WisNeuro]

The problem is idk what I want to do research on. I don’t want to pick a topic and realise I’m not really interested in it later on. I was hoping to get into a PhD program, take classes for a year, and figure out what I want to do research on but of course no PhD program would allow that. I was thinking of doing a master’s in behavioural analysis or something of that sort.

People change reseearch focus in PhD programs all of the time.

 

[jdawg2017]

The problem is idk what I want to do research on. I don’t want to pick a topic and realise I’m not really interested in it later on. I was hoping to get into a PhD program, take classes for a year, and figure out what I want to do research on but of course no PhD program would allow that. I was thinking of doing a master’s in behavioural analysis or something of that sort.

If you want to gain research experience and pubs, probably the most logical and best-paying way is to be a research assistant or clinical research coordinator at a hospital or research university. Look into job postings in areas you want to live, because a lot of positions are searching now to fill jobs that will be vacated when an RA/CRC goes off to grad school next year. Also, I'm aware (at least in neuropsych/Alzheimer's land) that a big funding wave at NIH just rolled around, so I am aware of quite a few labs looking to hire off of new R01s and bigger grants.

In terms of figuring out what you want to research, it helps to broadly have an idea, but it can change dramatically. For example, one can be interested broadly in the treatment of anxiety disorders, but can move around relatively easily in that area in grad school and beyond. I would advise thinking about your courses you have taken and think about what has really excited you. Any particular topics come to mind?

 

[deleted343839]

Currently, I’m looking at master’s programs to do in UK because I want to get the clinical hours for PsyD programs. I was wondering if the job perspectives are good for PsyD?

I don't think a UK master's degree is a good use of your time and money if your ultimate goal is to be a psychologist in the US. If you want to live abroad for a while, look for a research assistant position there.

The way to get a job with a PhD or PsyD is to (1) complete your degree requirements including dissertation, (2) apply and match to an APA-accredited internship, (3) apply for postdoctoral fellowships (optional but often helpful), and (4) apply for positions that are a good fit with your training, skills, and interest. If you want a primarily clinical career, either degree would be appropriate, although you should steer clear of PhD programs that very heavily emphasize clinical research and may not be supportive of clinical career goals. My experience is that the PsyD affects job prospects most in 4-year college and university settings, somewhat less so in academic medicine, and much less in agency and private practice settings.

The PsyD degree has some baggage because some of the lowest quality, predatory training programs out there award the PsyD. But there are some really great PsyD programs also, and I know strong faculty members who train at several different PsyD programs. I would favor the university-based PsyD programs over the freestanding professional schools since they tend to have good internship match rates, they have more resources and infrastructure than most of the freestanding schools, and, in my view, are less susceptible to the kind of collapse we saw with the Argosy and other for-profit/quasi-for-profit institutions recently.

The problem is idk what I want to do research on. I don’t want to pick a topic and realise I’m not really interested in it later on.

Why do you want to be a psychologist? What kinds of problems or populations do you envision yourself working on as a practitioner? Your research and clinical interests don't have to overlap, but thinking about the kinds of clinical problems you might want to work on might lead you to think about the type of research that interests you. It will be helpful to have some idea of your research interests even if you go into a PsyD program.

 

[ClinicalABA]

...I was thinking of doing a master’s in behavioural analysis or something of that sort.

A masters in ABA that makes you eligible as a BCBA is a relatively efficient way to a pretty good salary (65-80+k), and good BCBAs are desperately needed in most parts of the country. However, there would be little to no overlap with doctoral psych training- it’s basically it’s own field with separate training, certification, and licensure. It’s also pretty focused on autism treatment. It’s a good certification to have. most of he psychologists in my agency also have the BCBA and/or ABA state licensure, but it wasn’t part of, nor did it count towards, our psychologist coursework or clinical hours.

 

[xoxo111]

Any particular topics come to mind?

Well I’ve been interested in personality disorders, anxiety, depression, eating disorders and so I want to do something in one of those areas.

 

[WisNeuro]

Well I’ve been interested in personality disorders, anxiety, depression, eating disorders and so I want to do something in one of those areas.

That's a bit broad. Anything more specific within those areas that you are interested in? Any line of research articles that you have been particularly following recently?

 

[xoxo111]

Why do you want to be a psychologist? What kinds of problems or populations do you envision yourself working on as a practitioner?

I want to be a psychologist because I feel like I’m a good listener. I feel like I can help an individual figure out their root problem (if that makes any sense). I want to work with people who have anxiety and depressive disorders. I would also like to work with people with eating disorders. Also, I would like to work with kids.

 

[WisNeuro]

I want to be a psychologist because I feel like I’m a good listener. I feel like I can help an individual figure out their root problem (if that makes any sense). I want to work with people who have anxiety and depressive disorders. I would also like to work with people with eating disorders. Also, I would like to work with kids.

Sounds like you want to primarily focus on therapy. Better bet would be a masters level degree, like social work. It's where most of the new jobs for therapy are going in my area anyway.

 

[xoxo111]

That's a bit broad. Anything more specific within those areas that you are interested in? Any line of research articles that you have been particularly following recently?

I haven’t been following any particular article, but when I was in undergrad, I was very interested in the origin of a particular mental health problem, like how the upbringing of a child affects whether or not they will develop anxiety, etc.

 

[WisNeuro]

I haven’t been following any particular article, but when I was in undergrad, I was very interested in the origin of a particular mental health problem, like how the upbringing of a child affects whether or not they will develop anxiety, etc.

So, risk factors work in developmental psych? Could be a good place to start reading and get more info. As an aside, there is never one particular origin for MH issues. It's all multifactorial, even down to the epigenetic influences. It's all a matter of how big that pie slice is for a contributing factor and which are modifiable vs fixed.

 

[xoxo111]

A masters in ABA that makes you eligible as a BCBA is a relatively efficient way to a pretty good salary (65-80+k), and good BCBAs are desperately needed in most parts of the country. However, there would be little to no overlap with doctoral psych training- it’s basically it’s own field with separate training, certification, and licensure. It’s also pretty focused on autism treatment. It’s a good certification to have. most of he psychologists in my agency also have the BCBA and/or ABA state licensure, but it wasn’t part of, nor did it count towards, our psychologist coursework or clinical hours.

It won’t help for those “clinical hours”, if I want to apply for PsyD?

 

[ClinicalABA]

It won’t help for those “clinical hours”, if I want to apply for PsyD?

Nope- These hours would be supervised by a BCBA and are basically irrelevant as far as your doctoral psychology training is concerned. The BCBA does make you mare marketable in certain fields of psychology, bUt training is separate and independent of each other.

 

[xoxo111]

So, risk factors work in developmental psych? Could be a good place to start reading and get more info. As an aside, there is never one particular origin for MH issues. It's all multifactorial, even down to the epigenetic influences. It's all a matter of how big that pie slice is for a contributing factor and which are modifiable vs fixed.

Yes that’s what I was trying to say. The multifactorial factors contributing to mental illnesses. I would like to focus on few of the factors but I just don’t know which ones...

 

[DynamicDidactic]

like social work. It's where most of the new jobs for therapy are going in my area anyway.

There are a host of degrees and licensure that can let you practice at the masters level (e.g., social work, marriage and therapy, counselor). If the OP is interested in psychology, I would recommend finding a clinical or counseling masters program that provides the requisite training to be a licensed clinician in that state (typically a licensed counselor or LPC [or some similar acronym depending on the state]).

Social work is a very different field with a greater focus on social justice and a lesser focus on psychopathology and empiricism, from my experience. @xoxo111 I'd do some research (talk to a faculty/advisor) to see which may be a better fit. A doctoral degree is a lot of work to become a full time therapist and I am not sure if that is the most worthwhile route. I have talked to numerous people that went that route and wished they just got a masters instead.

 

[WisNeuro]

Social work is a very different field with a greater focus on social justice and a lesser focus on psychopathology and empiricism, from my experience. @xoxo111 I'd do some research (talk to a faculty/advisor) to see which may be a better fit. A doctoral degree is a lot of work to become a full time therapist and I am not sure if that is the most worthwhile route. I have talked to numerous people that went that route and wished they just got a masters instead.

Going to depend on your area and context. The therapy jobs in our system are almost all going to social work. I don't disagree that they lack knowledge of the research and in-depth path knowledge, but in the real world, they're getting the jobs in many places. Best advice for op, see where you want to work, and who is doing that job.

 

[jdawg2017]

Yes that’s what I was trying to say. The multifactorial factors contributing to mental illnesses. I would like to focus on few of the factors but I just don’t know which ones...

A research PhD would allow you to focus a lot of time studying a few of these. Maybe applying to developmental psychopathology labs for research assistantship or lab manager positions might be worthwhile. You can find labs studying anything about this under the sun, from genetics, to poverty/SES, to trauma, etc.

 

[xoxo111]

There are a host of degrees and licensure that can let you practice at the masters level (e.g., social work, marriage and therapy, counselor). If the OP is interested in psychology, I would recommend finding a clinical or counseling masters program that provides the requisite training to be a licensed clinician in that state (typically a licensed counselor or LPC [or some similar acronym depending on the state]).

Social work is a very different field with a greater focus on social justice and a lesser focus on psychopathology and empiricism, from my experience. @xoxo111 I'd do some research (talk to a faculty/advisor) to see which may be a better fit. A doctoral degree is a lot of work to become a full time therapist and I am not sure if that is the most worthwhile route. I have talked to numerous people that went that route and wished they just got a masters instead.

That’s why I am thinking of getting a masters first in the field the go for PhD if I want to later on.

 

[Sanman]

That’s why I am thinking of getting a masters first in the field the go for PhD if I want to later on.

Something to think about before getting a doctorate is how much you want your job dictating the rest of your life. There are fewer jobs overall and sometimes none in an area you want to live. You may get hired to research xyz or teach, but it may be in a small town in a state you don't want to live in. Is that okay with you? Will it be okay with your significant other? Compare that to a general masters level therapist that can work almost anywhere.

 

[ClinicalABA]

That’s why I am thinking of getting a masters first in the field the go for PhD if I want to later on.

That can be be good plan. Just be aware, if you’re not already, that many licensable masters programs (such as social work, mental health counseling, and-as mentioned before- ABA), MAY NOT have a lot of overlap with Ph.D. training programs, so it’s not like you’d do the first two years of doctoral training now, get a license and work for awhile, and finish the last 2-3 years later to get your Ph.D. You may wave out of a course or two, but that really won’t save you any years of doctoral training. Psychology masters programs (with research) may wave a few more courses and make you more competitive for Ph.D. programs, but often (usually?) don’t lead to a licensable degree. University clinical Ph.D. typically have a a non-terminal masters.

 

[xoxo111]

Thanks a lot everybody! You’ve been given me A LOT to think about!