Is 30 programs too little/just right/too much?

[Philotic]

Level 1: 500-510
Level 2: 500-510
Passed PE
No Step scores
Should have 3 FM LOR (1 MD, 2 DO), and will be auditioning at 4 places (that I will be applying to).

Is applying to 30 programs in the NE region a good number or should I apply to more? Want to stay in the general PA, NJ, DE area but matching somewhere is better than not matching! Getting nervous with the merger and the paranoia that somehow FM will become super competitive this match (2020). I know based on previous match data usually people recommend 17-20 programs (but this merger man....). Any thoughts appreciated!

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[Splenda88]

40+

If I were you, I would apply to 50+... After spending 300k for a degree, not the time to try to save 1k. You can always cancel interview invites. If you talk to anyone that participated in the SOAP, they will tell you it's soul-crushing.

 

[Philotic]

40+

If I were you, I would apply to 50+... After spending 300k for a degree, not the time to try to save 1k. You can always cancel interview invites. If you talk to anyone that participated in the SOAP, they will tell you it's soul-crushing.

Thanks for the feedback! I definitely agree and am not gonna worry about money right now. I was hoping with 30 programs that would be enough for about 10-15 interviews but I guess my numbers are not looking good enough for that? Most of the upperclassmen I know who matched into FM last year said they ranked about 8 programs and all got at least top 5. How many interviews do you think 50 applications would give me to be safe? When you say cancel interviews, is there a number where you think the interviews is enough? Thanks so much!

 

[AMEHigh]

I can’t remember exactly, but I failed comlex first time around and I think I applied to about 40-50 programs. This was a few years ago. I applied to places in the same general area you’re applying. I think I got about 19 interviews and canceled several. I think I went on 13 or so interviews? I think I matched my 2nd or 3rd choice. Clearly my memory isn’t perfect, ha, but you get the idea.

 

[Splenda88]

Thanks for the feedback! I definitely agree and am not gonna worry about money right now. I was hoping with 30 programs that would be enough for about 10-15 interviews but I guess my numbers are not looking good enough for that? Most of the upperclassmen I know who matched into FM last year said they ranked about 8 programs and all got at least top 5. How many interviews do you think 50 applications would give me to be safe? When you say cancel interviews, is there a number where you think the interviews is enough? Thanks so much!

I think 40 applications should be enough, but I am a very risk-averse individual and I saw horrors during the SOAP so that's why I tend to say to people it's not the time to try to save 1k.

Based on your stats, 40-50 applications should net you 15+ invites ... I think there is a diminishing return after 8 for specialties like FM/IM etc...

 

[hallowmann]

You'll be fine with 30 if you are applying to PA, NJ, and DE area, especially if you have a good range of competitive programs/cities in there (i.e. not all PA residencies in Philly or Lancaster General). This is assuming you go to school in that area (PA/NJ) as well, as programs are pretty familiar with applicants from schools in their region.

If you want more options, applying to 40 wouldn't be the end of the world, just know you may cancel some interviews.

 

[Philotic]

You'll be fine with 30 if you are applying to PA, NJ, and DE area, especially if you have a good range of competitive programs/cities in there (i.e. not all PA residencies in Philly or Lancaster General). This is assuming you go to school in that area (PA/NJ) as well, as programs are pretty familiar with applicants from schools in their region.

If you want more options, applying to 40 wouldn't be the end of the world, just know you may cancel some interviews.

Thank you! I think I'll maybe bulk up to 40 seeing as how my numbers for Level 2 put me in the "average of didn't match" candidates from last cycle according to the reports. I will probably add some of the further out places in NJ and PA I didn't have on my list. Trying to stay in the region if I can, went to school in the region, hopefully I can get 15 interviews or so.

 

[MedSchool8]

I'm a much weaker applicant than you and I'm planning to apply to >120 programs very broadly. Hoping to get at least >10 interviews as well.

Level 1: 400-410
Level 2: 440-450
PE: Pass on first attempt
No USMLE

Best of luck!

 

[Philotic]

I'm a much weaker applicant than you and I'm planning to apply to >120 programs very broadly. Hoping to get at least >10 interviews as well.

Level 1: 400-410
Level 2: 440-450
PE: Pass on first attempt
No USMLE

Best of luck!

Oh my gosh! >120 programs? Are you applying all across the country or in some geographic region? That makes me nervous for me only applying to 40! But good luck to you as well, hopefully FM will care more about just our numbers >.<

 

[Splenda88]

I'm a much weaker applicant than you and I'm planning to apply to >120 programs very broadly. Hoping to get at least >10 interviews as well.

Level 1: 400-410
Level 2: 440-450
PE: Pass on first attempt
No USMLE

Best of luck!

I think 70+ should be ok, but the more, the better. If you apply to 120, you will probably get 25+ invites

 

[kayaktj]

First, its not the number of applications you send its the why. Do you have some connection to the places you're applying? Did you go to school around there, did you live there, do you know people there. These ideas that you are going to get more than 10 interviews is you apply to 30 places sounds a bit too optimistic. Apply to as many places that would have some logical reason to want you. Otherwise it is a waste of money and if you have a $1,000 to waste then give it to a good cause, not the AMA.

 

[Philotic]

First, its not the number of applications you send its the why. Do you have some connection to the places you're applying? Did you go to school around there, did you live there, do you know people there. These ideas that you are going to get more than 10 interviews is you apply to 30 places sounds a bit too optimistic. Apply to as many places that would have some logical reason to want you. Otherwise it is a waste of money and if you have a $1,000 to waste then give it to a good cause, not the AMA.

Thanks for the feedback! I am applying to programs that have taken DO students before and have generally taken students from my school. I go to school in the region and am doing audition rotations at 4 of the places (unfortunately no other scheduling possibilities bc we have 4th year requirements from school). Don't "know" anyone, but I assume most average medical students don't have deep seated connections to multiple hospitals?

So you think because of my stats that I won't get at least 10 interviews if I apply to 30 (and thus will need to apply to more programs)?

 

[kayaktj]

What I think is, if you have connections to those 30 then yes, you could get 10 interviews. Ten interviews would be great and should be more than enough. I think you are on the right path. The only reason I would apply to more is if you make a connection at other spots.

 

[Philotic]

What I think is, if you have connections to those 30 then yes, you could get 10 interviews. Ten interviews would be great and should be more than enough. I think you are on the right path. The only reason I would apply to more is if you make a connection at other spots.

Thank you very much for your advice!

 

[Sardonix]

Apply Smart: Data to Consider When Applying to Residency

Your likelihood of securing residency training depends on many factors — including the number of residency programs you apply to.

students-residents.aamc.org

Gives a run down of how many programs to apply to for DO students.

 

[Philotic]

Apply Smart: Data to Consider When Applying to Residency

Your likelihood of securing residency training depends on many factors — including the number of residency programs you apply to.

students-residents.aamc.org

Gives a run down of how many programs to apply to for DO students.

Thank you for this! It looks like this is made with FM applicants who also took Step 1 and/or Step 2, so it isn't particularly helpful for me. I'll definitely do more research on programs though!

 

[uaFM]

Hi I don't want to hijack your thread but I am also in a similar situation. I hope you dont mind me posting here.

Step 1: 200
Step 2: 235
Level 1: 490
Level 2: 605

I am applying to programs in midwest and a few in east and west coast. Currently, I have 35 programs. Should I apply to at least 40 or 50?

 

[Sardonix]

Hi I don't want to hijack your thread but I am also in a similar situation. I hope you dont mind me posting here.

Step 1: 200
Step 2: 235
Level 1: 490
Level 2: 605

I am applying to programs in midwest and a few in east and west coast. Currently, I have 35 programs. Should I apply to at least 40 or 50?

I'm just a fellow M4, but with major improvement on both your exams like that you should get PLENTY of interview invites in the Midwest. Probably a decent number on the West Coast too, depending on your connection to the area.

 

[goldsummer]

I had worse scores than you and applied to 10. interviewed at 5 places turned down a few others...ranked all 5...got into my top choice...

For me, my thinking was, FM isn't that competitive (and the specific programs I applied to definitely were not), location was the only thing that mattered to me.

But...you never know, and better safe than sorry, right. Try for as many that you feel comfortable with.

 

[kayaktj]

All the program directors I've talked to, mostly in Family Med and Internal Med, get thousands of applications. Not sure where the conclusion can be drawn that Family Med "isn't that competitive".

 

[kayaktj]

That is a much clearer explanation for those who are looking for tangible advice. Family Med and IM have the most open slots so by the numbers the odds are better. Nicely done.

 

[BigSib]

Level 1: 500-510
Level 2: 500-510
Passed PE
No Step scores
Should have 3 FM LOR (1 MD, 2 DO), and will be auditioning at 4 places (that I will be applying to).

Is applying to 30 programs in the NE region a good number or should I apply to more? Want to stay in the general PA, NJ, DE area but matching somewhere is better than not matching! Getting nervous with the merger and the paranoia that somehow FM will become super competitive this match (2020). I know based on previous match data usually people recommend 17-20 programs (but this merger man....). Any thoughts appreciated!

You have nothing to worry about. 30 is reasonable but you should be selective on your interviews. I would not recommend going to that many interviews. I went to ~15 interviews and it was exhausting; cancelled the remaining I had scheduled after finding a handful of good programs and locations.

 

[Philotic]

You have nothing to worry about. 30 is reasonable but you should be selective on your interviews. I would not recommend going to that many interviews. I went to ~15 interviews and it was exhausting; cancelled the remaining I had scheduled after finding a handful of good programs and locations.

Thanks for sharing your experiences! I would be thrilled to get 15 interviews, I am just afraid I won't even get that many with the merger happening this cycle. Fingers crossed, and congrats on having such a successful cycle!

 

[studentxx8800]

All the program directors I've talked to, mostly in Family Med and Internal Med, get thousands of applications. Not sure where the conclusion can be drawn that Family Med "isn't that competitive".

It’s mostly IMGs making up that number. Definitely not thousands of USMD applying to those programs

 

[moonwake]

I'm OMS4 as well
Level 1 49x
Level 2 45x
PE pass on second attempt
repeated 1st year due to failure but kid with major hospitalization at time
Would this put me in a similar boat and plan on 40 programs I guess? (I have 40 programs I actually WANT to go to)

 

[hallowmann]

I'm OMS4 as well
Level 1 49x
Level 2 45x
PE pass on second attempt
repeated 1st year due to failure but kid with major hospitalization at time
Would this put me in a similar boat and plan on 40 programs I guess? (I have 40 programs I actually WANT to go to)

With the fail on PE, repeating first year, and dropping on Level 2, I would apply to far more programs. People I know that had a PE pass on second attempt struggled to get interview invites, let alone having the repeat year. I would probably apply to closer to 60-70 programs or even more if you have programs in areas that are more competitive, the programs don't take a lot of DOs, or are outside of your school's geographic region. You could get away with much fewer programs if you have good connections to the programs, but why risk that given your multiple red flags.

 

[moonwake]

With the fail on PE, repeating first year, and dropping on Level 2, I would apply to far more programs. People I know that had a PE pass on second attempt struggled to get interview invites, let alone having the repeat year. I would probably apply to closer to 60-70 programs or even more if you have programs in areas that are more competitive, the programs don't take a lot of DOs, or are outside of your school's geographic region. You could get away with much fewer programs if you have good connections to the programs, but why risk that given your multiple red flags.

just now seeing this- I applied to 40... but I'll take a second look and see if there are any more. Thanks for your advice.

 

[hallowmann]

just now seeing this- I applied to 40... but I'll take a second look and see if there are any more. Thanks for your advice.

If you've got a connection with many of the 40, they're all in your region, and/or aren't particularly competitive programs, it might be fine. Its just you have multiple red flags, so its safer to err on the side of over-applying than under-applying. You want to have 12-15 interview invites. You might get that with 40 just fine, as long as the list didn't have a ton of competitive programs.

 

[moonwake]

If you've got a connection with many of the 40, they're all in your region, and/or aren't particularly competitive programs, it might be fine. Its just you have multiple red flags, so its safer to err on the side of over-applying than under-applying. You want to have 12-15 interview invites. You might get that with 40 just fine, as long as the list didn't have a ton of competitive programs.

Yeah all are at or below my average- only 5-6 reach programs. maybe half are lower IMG-fullish programs. Thanks again!