Where would a Canadian do better and which country would match back easier to come home.
Thanks
Thanks
Ireland VS UK VS Australia
- Thread starter Bangsar
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If you can't get into Canadian or US med, U.S. DO is your best bet! Benefit is some provinces treat DOs as CMGs. Second benefit is applying to DO residency as a backup. DO is a great job in the U.S.
If you are European or Australian, gamble at the others.
If you are European or Australian, gamble at the others.
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UK imo, hardest to get in and easiest to stay in the country.
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I think its nearly impossible to tell which of those three would improve your chances at coming to Canada. CARMS this year and last year has been very focussed on MCCEE and NAC OSCE scores particularly for specialties like IM and FM (makes up the majority of IMG spots). It will come down to your work ethic and individual application far more than which school you went to. I know Irish grads were able to snag some competitive spots this year and over the past few years (Ortho, Surg, Anesthesiology, Neurology, Derm etc.) in Ontario. That being said; I'm entirely unfamiliar with UK and Australia match rates in CARMS, they could be just as strong or stronger.
I totally agree with this statement. Coming back to Canada, all the places you listed will give you about the same shot. Like RCSI student has said, it really comes down to your work ethic and application. If you get good scores on your MCCEE, NAC OSCE, get good LoRs with Canadian rotations, prepare your application early and do well on your interviews, your shot at coming back is statistically probably about the same at either of the three countries you listed.
Like Medstart108 said though UK is the hardest to get in of the 3 and guarantees a residence spot in the UK but not Canada. On the flipside though is that if you got the marks to get into the UK, you can probably get into Canada or US somewhere with some minor tweaking. Either way, once you're in med school at any of the countries you listed, you will be taught reasonable well and gain the fundamentals but that work doesn't get any easier for matching. You better be prepared to put in the work if you want the competitive spots, heck that's for any medical student anywhere, not like people that match to Derm or Anesthesiology in Canadian didn't work there ass off in med school to get the spot. I mean yes, some have better connections etc., but many don't have a chief of surgery dad.
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deleted158872
Where are you getting these stats Maruko?
I'm not saying one country is better then the other, as I already gave my opinions above but just from the numbers the 2015 CaRMs match IMG match, Australia had the highest percentage matched 46 matched/73 applicants. Ireland isn't seperate but all of Europe (I guess UK included and other EU countries like Poland etc.) didn't do as well with only 147 matched/427 applicants.
Just because Irish schools advertise more to the Canadian populace doesn't mean it matches better then say Australia. I'd imagine there really is no significant difference for matching back to Canada.
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deleted158872
1/ UK guarantees internship to ALL of its graduates.
2/ SOME of Ireland's Atlantic Bridge schools have connections with US hospitals = easier to set up elective rotations. and Irish schools' reputation is good (i think it's even better in Canada).
3/ Australia: it takes 20+ hours to fly ONE way from Aussie land to North America so keep that in mind for electives. If it's UQ-Ochsner, be aware that they require Ochsner cohort to do 8 weeks of summer electives IN AUSTRALIA after MS1 - which is 2/3 of summer - so less time to do anything else.
Your claims have nothing to do with what the OP asked for this thread. He is asking which country would a Canadian have a easier time to match back home in Canada.
Yes UK guarantees internship to its graduates....in the UK. The UK is not Canada. I mean that's awesome if you wanted to stay in the UK. Not awesome for the OP.
Your other two points are very subjective at best. Most reputable schools have connections with US schools. Again he is asking about back home in Canada, not the US. But alot of Schools have Canadian connections as well for instance UofSyd Med School has an exchange elective program with McMaster. You bring up UQ-Oschner...which is a strict program only for American Citizens who can apply. The OP can't even apply to that program as a Canadian. Why is that even a point in your claim?
So many of the replies in these threads just get jumbled together in a giant snowball. But you're just adding in more snow...let's try to be more concise and helpful with our replies to our fellow peers instead of building useless snowmen.
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DoctorS84, the reality is that having a backup is a very important thing. The UK doesn't stop you from applying back to Canada or the States but having a UK internship if things fall through is immeasurably important. It is 4 years of medical school, things change you might like the country and the UK is a great place to live and work. The other thing of course is that you can complete your specialty training in the UK then work in Canada without much hassle if things don't work out.
The amount of stress also you have if you have no backup is also very much there. And of course, being a doctor after 4 years of medical school somewhere is better than being unemployed.
...Again I am not arguing any of that. The UK would be a phenomenal place to study and work. Guaranteed residency with top rated institutions. It's also quite evident that its extremely competitive for a Canadian to get into the UK without any status there, the OP would likely be just as competitive in Canada or US then. Are we going to argue if the UK is better then USMD/CMD? I really hope not, as I'm sure there's another thread for that. But none of the awesomeness of the UK answers the OP and his question. Why are you putting information here that doesn't need to be, that's what I don't get.
Sure you could love the UK, but hey you might hate it. Sure you can train in the UK and come back, heck that works in other countries too. Sure you may not like to eat grapefruits now but who knows, in 4 years you might really like grapefruits?
Stop adding snow to the snowball. Just answer the question people are asking. If you make certain claims, put up some numbers to back them up. You're all aspiring doctors, put up some evidence man. Don't just put up stuff you like.
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Posters who have been around and have much more experience then you are providing solid advice on here, yet you pull the "use evidence based med" card.
Medstart is on the ball. You are twisting things in an unhelpful and misleading way.
When you leave Canada, you need to make sure that the school you go to gives you the best back up options in the US match or elswehere, whereby you can get the residency training and then use reciprocity to return back to Canada for practice. The Canadian match can and will change at any time. A medical degree is useless without residency training. By having residency in the US, its easy to then come back to Canada. UK same thing for FM and many specialties due to reciprocity. Ireland and Australia used to be better backups but with overpopulation of med students, foreigners are the last priority now and unlikely to have a solid backup there.
Please stop misleading other posters. The only medical students who should have Canada as their main focus without a backup are Canadian medical students based on simple math and politics.
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This whole post just makes me lol. Especially the first part of being around and experience.
Is this where we measure who has a longer stick? Should we place some categories? Oh damn you beat me on join date and number of posts. I guess I concede.
"Please stop misleading other posters." Please point out the points of where I am misleading. I'd love to hear your experienced and expert opinion so I don't mislead anyone in the future.
To my fellow aspiring peers, I hope you can dig up your own research. Factual research from government sites, medical council reports, match stats etc., and strive away from the bias you may see here. Not denying I could be showing bias as well but I think everyone here can agree, if you want to be a practicing physician:
The formula of success has always been ace your boards, do well on your rotations of where you want to do your post grad training, get LORs from the established Drs (who you are wanting to become), impress on your interviews. Prepare early, work hard and you'll hit your mark. Just because you like neuro doesn't mean you're good enough, but if you do your best in the formula, you'll be some kind of doctor if you want to be.
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See my other posts. It doesn't matter how great you are as an IMG if health Canada decides they want to further restrict SONs.
But I agree 100% that I have bias, I want to see as many of my future colleagues as possible regardless of where they go, go eventually match and become.physicians in Canada if they so choose. Do your own research and check government websites, I have posted them directly in other posts. 2016 was a year of big changes. Educate yourselfs on them and the future trends. Thats all!
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Your post accuses me of things i never said. OP asked which one out of the 3 was better and I answered his question to the best of my ability.
Hi, I'm Canadian planning to go to Australia . What are the big changes in 2016 you are talking about? Sorry, I'm trying to find your previous posts as you have mentioned but yet to have come across anything significant.
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Its all in my post history over the last 24 hours.
2016 match was when Health Canada capped all specialties for the SON issued for the J1 visa, that every non-US citizen needs to do residency in the U.S. The number available seems somewhat sufficient for FM and IM, but there will be decreases next cylce - and who knows in the future. Ontario contributed ZERO statement of needs, and themselves have put 50 residencies(25 cmg and 25 img) on the chopping block, so its clear that ontario is making big moves. Of the 295 statement of needs provided for FM for the 2016 match for example, 280 of those came from BC. It would make me really uncomfortable to rely on the generosity of 1 province to stick around for 4-5 more years, especially as there has been talks at the PGE level at UBC to make some modifications to the IMG process in BC(again!), and that may entail a relook at its contributions towards SON.
Additionally, for those going for Internal Medicine, it used to be that you could do your 3 years of IM and then subspecialize in the US before returning to Canada(or getting a waiver and staying in the US). Now, Health Canada has restricted this option, and one must do the 3 years of IM in the U.S. + 1 year of chief year or fellowship(i.e. geriatrics), and THEN return to Canada and become licensed in General Internal Medicine(GIM), before they would consider providing you with a new SON to return to the US for subspecialization. They have made it clear that Canada wants generalists, so if you have aspirations towards IM subspecializations, another difficulty has been added.
Not all of them are unsurmountable, and surely many will still be okay, but just new information to add to the decision making process.
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Just curious, what are some reasons that would UK be a better option than Ireland in your opinion? I've heard Ireland is better because they have a larger cohort of Canadian students, prepare them better for MCCEE, help with transition to matching into CAD or US residencies...?
T
torontopharm
You can stay back in UK. You can't in Ireland (unless you have a EU citizenship).
There's more to it, but that's the gist of it. Ultimately, you'll have to decide what feature interests you the most out of those 3 countries.
You can get all the info you need on international options/schools etc. by stalking UBC2014 or Medstart108's post history.