IR/DR residency -> vRAD (asking for a friend)

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

Hello,

Is it possible to complete an IR/DR residency, then work for Vrads? Asking for a newly minted MS3 regarding the feasibly. She would ideally like to train as an interventionalist and work in private practice doing light-IR work for a bit, latter transitioning to vRAD type gig

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[Neopolymath]

You can never be too overqualified to be taken advantage of lol.

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

You can never be too overqualified to be taken advantage of lol.

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean?

 

[vm26]

Hello,

Is it possible to complete an IR/DR residency, then work for Vrads? Asking for a newly minted MS3 regarding the feasibly. She would ideally like to train as an interventionalist and work in private practice doing light-IR work for a bit, latter transitioning to vRAD type gig

vRad/tele-rad jobs are not desirable or competitive to get, so the premise of this question is confusing. If your MS3 friend is board certified, has a legal medical license, and a pulse, she will be golden for tele-rads.

Also why train in IR (and subject oneself to at least a few years of overnight call/torture), enter PP where one traditionally works extremely hard at a discounted rate in order to become partner, and then give it up in order to do diagnostic tele-rads (at a permanent discounted rate) which she could have done day 1 as a new grad?

Finally trying to predict what this field will look like 6-7 years from now is impossible.

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

I

vRad/tele-rad jobs are not desirable or competitive to get, so the premise of this question is confusing. If your MS3 friend is board certified, has a legal medical license, and a pulse, she will be golden for tele-rads.

Also why train in IR (and subject oneself to at least a few years of overnight call/torture), enter PP where one traditionally works extremely hard at a discounted rate in order to become partner, and then give it up in order to do diagnostic tele-rads (at a permanent discounted rate) which she could have done day 1 as a new grad?

Finally trying to predict what this field will look like 6-7 years from now is impossible.

Maybe I'm just not conveying the message well, but I guess what she has seen a lot is value with having some level of procedural skills that you wouldn't get during a DR residency or fellowship, as those skills make you more marketable.

 

[brownman23]

But you don’t do any procedures in tele-radiology. Why would you pick up skills in residency that you plan to never use?

 

[qxrt]

Procedural skills are desirable yes, but if she's only planning to do "light IR" as you said, an IR fellowship is overkill. You can learn light IR (biopsies, drains, etc.) in residency + non-IR fellowship or even pick it up in your first years of practice with some mentorship. Unless your friend is planning to do things like TIPS/ablation/angio (which wouldn't count as "light" IR), then why bother with an IR fellowship? Might as well do a body fellowship, where you can learn some light IR procedures in addition to get more experience with body MRI, which will be a much more useful skill as a telerad.

Also, if the plan is only to do this for a bit before transitioning to teleradiology, then even doubly so, why bother with IR? What makes IR valuable is ability to take call and be physically present and needed in the hospital. IR is the single most useless radiology fellowship if you are planning telerad.

 

[vm26]

I
Maybe I'm just not conveying the message well, but I guess what she has seen a lot is value with having some level of procedural skills that you wouldn't get during a DR residency or fellowship, as those skills make you more marketable.

One can get skills on the job (light IR, breast imaging etc), as I did provided one has a decent foundation and the motivation to do so. Some body fellowships also include light IR as part of the training.

Not to sound harsh but it is concerning/borderline absurd that a MS3 is contemplating whether they should get procedural skills for an undesirable job that does not require and cannot utilize. This makes perfect sense on planet bizarro. I'm assuming this is a bogus thread that I have willingly wasted about 8 minutes of my life on.

 

[Thesimplelifeofamyloid]

One can get skills on the job (light IR, breast imaging etc), as I did provided one has a decent foundation and the motivation to do so. Some body fellowships also include light IR as part of the training.

Not to sound harsh but it is concerning/borderline absurd that a MS3 is contemplating whether they should get procedural skills for an undesirable job that does not require and cannot utilize. This makes perfect sense on planet bizarro. I'm assuming this is a bogus thread that I have willingly wasted about 8 minutes of my life on.

I think her goal is to be prepared for the future as much as possible. A very type A personality. I think she's drawn to vRAD for the lifestyle primarily, but doesn't want to put herself between a rock and a hard place.

Procedural skills are desirable yes, but if she's only planning to do "light IR" as you said, an IR fellowship is overkill. You can learn light IR (biopsies, drains, etc.) in residency + non-IR fellowship or even pick it up in your first years of practice with some mentorship. Unless your friend is planning to do things like TIPS/ablation/angio (which wouldn't count as "light" IR), then why bother with an IR fellowship? Might as well do a body fellowship, where you can learn some light IR procedures in addition to get more experience with body MRI, which will be a much more useful skill as a telerad.

Also, if the plan is only to do this for a bit before transitioning to teleradiology, then even doubly so, why bother with IR? What makes IR valuable is ability to take call and be physically present and needed in the hospital. IR is the single most useless radiology fellowship if you are planning telerad.

I suggested this to her. I think the confusion is of what procedures you actually learn procedure wise during a body fellowship. She said that the only thing she's seen at our institution body folks do is a lumbar puncture. So here I am now just trying to get more information about it.

 

[IRattending2021]

Vrad jobs are not competitive. Anyone who has a pulse can walk in. Next

 

[Dave1980]

Hello,

Is it possible to complete an IR/DR residency, then work for Vrads? Asking for a newly minted MS3 regarding the feasibly. She would ideally like to train as an interventionalist and work in private practice doing light-IR work for a bit, latter transitioning to vRAD type gig

I don't think you or your friend have any idea of how DR, IR, or telerads work. Maybe she should make an account to ask her own questions.

 

[DOFOSHO]

Can anyone who has experience in both telerads AND private practice comment on why one is better or worse than the other? I have done a thread search and found a plethora of reasons for and against telerads but they all seem to be offered by people without dual experience. I'd really like to hear some stories of docs who left pp and went to vrads or vice-versa and what your experiences were. To what extent were you taken advantage of in vrads? what is the value of the absence of a commute with vrads? I ask these questions from the standpoint of someone who has experience with private practice and I think i would personally take a 50-75k/year pay cut to avoid traffic, parking, crappy food in the "doctors" lounge, and dealing with a messy cubicle everyday.

 

[Neopolymath]

Can anyone who has experience in both telerads AND private practice comment on why one is better or worse than the other? I have done a thread search and found a plethora of reasons for and against telerads but they all seem to be offered by people without dual experience. I'd really like to hear some stories of docs who left pp and went to vrads or vice-versa and what your experiences were. To what extent were you taken advantage of in vrads? what is the value of the absence of a commute with vrads? I ask these questions from the standpoint of someone who has experience with private practice and I think i would personally take a 50-75k/year pay cut to avoid traffic, parking, crappy food in the "doctors" lounge, and dealing with a messy cubicle everyday.

I think you would like the YouTube channel of Sarel Gaur. He has touched on this in a couple videos. Some of his videos are mindset and radiology career philosophy but some touch on financial decisions.

https://youtube.com/c/sarelgaurMD

 

[Clean7795]

I think her goal is to be prepared for the future as much as possible. A very type A personality. I think she's drawn to vRAD for the lifestyle primarily, but doesn't want to put herself between a rock and a hard place.

Working for a corporate master is anything but lifestyle—over the course of of a career any specialty where corporate dominates you can lead to job instability (see the current EM situation where corporates can open residencies and control the supply of EM physicians).

The career strategy you're describing is very poor, which is why everyone is bemused as to what you're saying. PP can be a grind but you own your own practice and it really comes down to the mindset of your partners (i.e. do they value money or personal time), which will decide what kind of lifestyle one has.

 

[Cognovi]

I am SO confused: a type A personality who wants to just be a cog in the wheel of corporate radiology, someone who wants to be future proof but support an economic entity that makes profit by literally commoditizing radiologists, someone who wants to train as an interventionalist but then immediately ramp down to light IR and then no IR.

Your friend doesn't know what they want. Consider dermatology.

 

[vm26]

I am SO confused: a type A personality who wants to just be a cog in the wheel of corporate radiology, someone who wants to be future proof but support an economic entity that makes profit by literally commoditizing radiologists, someone who wants to train as an interventionalist but then immediately ramp down to light IR and then no IR.

Your friend doesn't know what they want. Consider dermatology.

Yeah, doesn't make any sense. One would think that a type A would have done some basic research into these topics. This individual seems to be in the dark. Maybe things have changed but don't most med students get the bulk of clinical exposure during MS3? Newly minted MS3 should be a bit more open-minded.