Interview-Trail Impressions

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Pros:
1. Friendly residents
2. Excellent reputation
3. Research and study abroad opportunities abound
4. Excellent subspecialties, standouts are cards and heme onc
5. Schedule good, with 80 hrs usually not a problem, but the 10 hours between shifts remains to be fixed, but will be prior to ROLs due
6. Excellent fellowship placement. Mostly in the NE area, but all programs I have seen usually place in the vicinity of the home institution
Cons:
1. No elective time R1 year, only 1 month elective R2 year
2. Relatively less patient diversity than many other large city academic centers.
3. Patients often have their own Brigham subspecialist attending, which means you have to track them down every day to discuss plan.

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Has anyone interviewed at Hopkins yet? Just wondering what people's impression of the program is.

I think by now Hopkins must be half way through its interview season, so if others have comments about their interview day please chime in...

I was very very impressed with the program. Most of my interviews before this were blending together, and this one really shined above all. The intern/resident turnout at the pre-interview dinner was very good - I think there was probably more of them than applicants. They were all very easy to talk to and welcomed any questions (I have to say I was a bit intimidated by the big name and everything). The general atmosphere seems to be that everyone aimed to do their best, teaching and learning at the same time, and I was surprised I didn't feel any sort of arrogance amongst people. Everyone was modest and humble. You have to work hard here no doubt, q4 calls for 10.5 months straight with q3 calls in the units. By the middle of October, the intern basically runs the show, so for those who likes autonomy, this is definitely the place. The program director, Dr. Charles Wiener, has a great sense of humor and definitely did his homework the day before the interview, since he was able to identify each applicant by name and background.

One of the most common questions I heard during the interview day was - why does Hopkins have a reputation that it is a malignant program and such? The answer was often that they don't know because they are happy there, or some think that it's a reputation that trickles down from the undergrad campus, and some think simply it's because Hopkins training differ somewhat from other programs so it's bound to generate some negative talk.

I think the one thing perhaps that raised everyone's eyebrows a bit and that no one really wanted to ask - the interns there also wear short coats like medical students. So I had to kind of check out everyone name tag discreetly to figure out who was the intern and who was the med student.

Sorry this is in an unorganized fashion. But I'll post more if things come to mind.
 
Any thoughts about the Johns Hopkins Bayview program?

My overall impression of this program is that it is one that really cares about its residents and their well being. This is an academic medicine program in a community practice setting. The thing I thought was unique about this program is that there is a med-psych rotation and EBM rotation. Med-psych rotation is to learn about the psycho-social aspect of medicine, improve physician-patient communication, and also to reinfornce clinical skills. There is a lot of collegiality and warmth in the general atmosphere.
 
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Isn't Hyde Park a pretty dangerous neighborhood? They had a rash of armed robberies at gunpoint in broad daylight last year (I decided against interviewing at UC after reading their police blotter), so much for charming.

Hyde Park, itself, is a beautiful neighborhood on the southeast side of the city surrounded by the lake and then some pretty bad neighborhoods. So, I think crime filters in from the neighboring areas. But, hey, it's Chicago - not small town, USA ... stuff happens. I don't recommend walking around alone at night, but people still do. I have friends who have experienced robberies in Oak Park, Lakeview, Lincoln Park, Wrigleyville and Streeterville. Unfortunately, it's just a fact of living in a big city. Besides - I would say, as an example, the immediate area of Baltimore surrounding JHU is much worse.
 
I think the one thing perhaps that raised everyone's eyebrows a bit and that no one really wanted to ask - the interns there also wear short coats like medical students. So I had to kind of check out everyone name tag discreetly to figure out who was the intern and who was the med student.

I havn't been to Johns Hopkins yet, but I also noticed this short coat phenomenon at MGH, BIDMC, and the Brigham. (even UCSF apparently only just switched from short to long) Anyway, I am sure this has more to do with the fact that all of these programs are so deeply rooted in tradition than any particular heirarchy per se? But coming from a med school where even the med students wear long coats, I definitely found it a little strange to see PGY3's wearing shorties.

Also... anyone have any idea on what to do as far as sending out thank you notes after MGH interview? No one's sending a note to each panel member, right? I mean, I think I had like 6 people in the room with me for crying out loud! In fact, I don't think my chances are great after my terrified, crappy half-answers... but, I'd like to be polite anyway. :(
 
May I suggest a "bullsh1t" cough in regards to Brigham's work hours. If you have trouble with 10 hours between shifts, you are working over 14 hours a day on non-call days and I guarantee you that you are over 80 a week. If you are working 14 hours on non-call days, allow me to also seriously question the ability to get out at 30 post-call.

And how are you supposed to figure out if you want to apply for a fellowship with no elective time until you are an R3?
 
May I suggest a "bullsh1t" cough in regards to Brigham's work hours. If you have trouble with 10 hours between shifts, you are working over 14 hours a day on non-call days and I guarantee you that you are over 80 a week. If you are working 14 hours on non-call days, allow me to also seriously question the ability to get out at 30 post-call.

And how are you supposed to figure out if you want to apply for a fellowship with no elective time until you are an R3?


The 10 hour work hour is a problem for any system with nightfloat, rather than overnight call. Currently many services are already phasing in no pre-rounding for post call to address this issue, and the new call system being worked on will hopefully resolve that issue once for all.

In terms of 80 hours, the official statistic that they make everyone log every day shows that all services are under 80. Underreporting is a problem though.

As for fellowships, people do figure out what they want to do, obviously :) There is a lot of specialty experience in in the regular elective (e.g., cards, onc, subspecialty general medicine services). also, many people choose to apply 3rd year, still with excellent results.

I think i would emphasize that BWH is not cush by any means, as we have a lot of patients and a lot of them are very sick, but it's a fun place to be and the residents are very well taken care of.
 
May I suggest a "bullsh1t" cough in regards to Brigham's work hours. If you have trouble with 10 hours between shifts, you are working over 14 hours a day on non-call days and I guarantee you that you are over 80 a week. If you are working 14 hours on non-call days, allow me to also seriously question the ability to get out at 30 post-call.

And how are you supposed to figure out if you want to apply for a fellowship with no elective time until you are an R3?

As another poster pointed out, there is a nightfloat system at the Brigham.

Below is a Q4 call cycle example. Please note, the leaving times in my example are on average 2-3 hours later each day than is typical. I have never had a call cycle that bad as an intern or resident.

Call 7am - 2am = 19
Post 7am - 6pm = 11
PP 7am - 6pm = 11
Pre 7am - 6pm = 11 = 52 hour per call cycle

7 call cycles per "month" = 364 hours
2 PPcall and 2 precall days off per month = 44 hours off

364-44 = 320 / 4 weeks = 80 hours a week (assuming 7 terrible call cycles)

As you can see, the 10 hours off between shifts rule is difficult to achieve with a nightfloat system, but the administration is trying a number a pilot systems with heavy input from the residents.

24+6 is never a problem with a nightfloat. In addition, there is talk that the ACGME may change the 24+6 rule to 24 only. This change would reek havoc on call structures everywhere, and a strong point of the Brigham is the administration's willingness and eagerness to adapt to rule changes and resident concerns.

In terms of choosing a fellowship, everyone is strongly exposed to cards, hem-onc, renal, GI, pulm-CC, and inpatient ID on the ward and unit months. Furthermore, interns get 6 weeks of ambulatory time during which they can rotate in any outpatient subspecialty clinic they want. Juniors get 4 weeks of elective and 10 weeks of ambulatory. If there is still doubt, seniors get 4-6 months of research time. I do not know the numbers off hand, but I would guess of those going on to fellowship, 20% short track, 60% apply R2, and 20% apply R3.

I am happy with my time at the Brigham and welcome PMs with any questions you may have.
 
As another poster pointed out, there is a nightfloat system at the Brigham.

Below is a Q4 call cycle example. Please note, the leaving times in my example are on average 2-3 hours later each day than is typical. I have never had a call cycle that bad as an intern or resident.

Call 7am - 2am = 19
Post 7am - 6pm = 11
PP 7am - 6pm = 11
Pre 7am - 6pm = 11 = 52 hour per call cycle

7 call cycles per "month" = 364 hours
2 PPcall and 2 precall days off per month = 44 hours off

364-44 = 320 / 4 weeks = 80 hours a week (assuming 7 terrible call cycles)
Does the 2am - 7am time count towards duty hours? If they do count this would put you at 88.75 hours per "week."
 
Does the 2am - 7am time count towards duty hours? If they do count this would put you at 88.75 hours per "week."

I was wondering about that myself. Technically it would have to since there isn't 10 hours b/w shifts if you get off at 2am and go back in 5 hours later. Having said that, that particular call schedule doesn't look too horrible. I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor in ranking a program.
 
I was wondering about that myself. Technically it would have to since there isn't 10 hours b/w shifts if you get off at 2am and go back in 5 hours later. Having said that, that particular call schedule doesn't look too horrible. I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor in ranking a program.

it doesn't count officially.

7am to 2am on call days is probably a slight over estimate too. there are days i left at 10pm, when nightfloat picks up, and there are days i stayed till 3ish, writing notes. I probably write notes slower than the average intern, and overall average i would say would be 7am to 12am for me.

also, at the minimum, post-call day are now supposed to start at 8am, with no pre rounding.
 
Does the 2am - 7am time count towards duty hours? If they do count this would put you at 88.75 hours per "week."

80 hours a week isn't the problem. Like I said the call cycle example is a terrible cycle and to break 80 hours one would have to have 7 of them in a 4 week period. On the other hand, your question is valid. Either the 24+6 or the 10hr rule is broken in a nightfloat system depending on whether you count those hours.

To remedy this problem, the Brigham IM has instituted some stop gaps on the rougher services (e.g onc): interns admit until 8pm instead of 10pm making it easier to get out before 10pm + interns on many services are not supposed to pre-round postcall.

There are currently 3 long term solutions being considered and piloted that bring the program into compliance with all the rules. However, 2 of 3 will need to be revamped if the 24+6 rule changes to 24 only.

Certainly ask the interns about all this when interviewing.

Good luck.
 
80 hours a week isn't the problem. Like I said the call cycle example is a terrible cycle and to break 80 hours one would have to have 7 of them in a 4 week period. On the other hand, your question is valid. Either the 24+6 or the 10hr rule is broken in a nightfloat system depending on whether you count those hours.

Interestingly, our NF system is better about 24+6 and 10 off (I've never broken those) but I have gone over 80 a couple of times. We're on call (q5) from 8a-8p. Depending on how busy the night was or when the folks hit the floor I've left anywhere from 8:30p (on Thanksgiving) to not leaving at all, just catching a couple hours sleep in the call room (so let's call it 4a). On the upside, they treat our call days as 24+6 whether you went home or not so we're always out the door at 2 the next day.

I've seen other systems where admissions are held for the last 60-90 minutes before NF comes on, allowing the on-call team to get their work done and be out the door at a reasonable time in order to fulfill the 10h rule.

There are a nearly infinite number of iterations of call systems (for our 4 inpt. rotations, we have 4 different systems) and, as mentioned before, I wouldn't let this one thing be what keeps you from ranking a program you otherwise like.
 
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Pros:
1. Yale obviously has a strong academic reputation and strong department of medicine.
2. Research money and facilities abound. The new chair of medicine seems to have made research his number one priority (there was a whole hour of the day just devoted to the various research tracks/opportunities available.)
3. The program director, Dr. Kapadia, has been in place for a long time. Seems to be personable.
4. Fellowship wise, they match as well as you expect for an upper level program. However, 50% of residents go on to fellow at Yale (this may be a PRO or a CON, depending on your views.)
5. New cancer center being built, but will not be finished for 3 years.
6. International health electives with funding.

Cons:
1. As someone who doesn't want to be a bench scientist but rather a clinician, I was put off by the long presentation on research opportunities. Not because I don't think it's a plus for the program, but because I didn't think that the program did a good day of balancing the research with clinical/humanistic/doctoring aspects of the program. It made me feel like as someone wanting to do clinical medicine, that this was not where I belonged. (To be fair, one of the assistant directors stated at lunch that most of its residents do pursue clinical-educator paths.)
2. New Haven. Talking to residents, they don't seem to mind living in New Haven, as it does have a lower cost of living compared to many other east coast cities. However, during the day, I constantly was told, "Well, New York is only an 1.5 hours away." New Haven has improved a lot, but it is still New Haven.
3. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the cardiology department still doesn't have a chair -- if this is true, I'm not sure what to imply from this.

Overall: Good academic reputation, strong focus on research, but felt that the program was relying heavily on Ivy League name as its major selling point.

just to add some perspective, i have to disagree with a few of your points and share my perspective, since i got a different impression from the interview day among other things.

with regards to their presentation of the different scholarly opportunities-it wasn't an hour of listening to all the different ways you can do bench research....that was just one of the many things they told us about. perhaps you forgot about the presentation where they talk about how they're one of the four sites for the RWJ clinical scholars program...that involves no bench work, just clinical work. and you may have also forgot about the presentation about the writers workshop and the way the residents have an outlet for expressing themselves creatively. i don't know what you were expecting, but if you're just interested in doing clinical medicine, you can go to any program and get the right training...i think the point that yale was trying to make was that they can provide you with that training but if you want more either during residency or after, they wanted to tell the applicants about all the things that make yale different and special and make people feel comfortable knowing that whatever piques their interests, yale has the resources and diversity to accommodate them. also you should keep in mind that yale is trying to recruit the same group of people that are being recruited by the other top programs, and in the limited time they have for the interview days, i can't blame them for wanting to spend a portion of it talking about what makes them different from their competition without disparaging them but instead focusing on what they have to offer.

new haven is a fine place to live. so it's not nyc, but with your salary as a resident you'll be a lot more comfortable than that which you could afford in nyc. and there's plenty to do in new haven, there's a great feel to the city with the undergrad and med school all right there, and once you start to grasp the reality of residency life, you'll realize that with the hours you'll be working you're not going to have the time nor energy to go out and about no matter what city or town you're in.

as far as fellowship placement goes, i have yet to find a program where the majority of their graduates don't stay at their program for fellowships. that's the trend everywhere. and when you say they're relying on the ivy league name as a major selling point, guess what? so do all the ivy league programs. and there's nothing wrong with it, because it is a major selling point. maybe not to you, but to many others out there. ivy league schools are their own brand, and it's a brand that commands a high premium....that's why it remains so competitive, from undergrad to med school to residency and beyond. if you like a program and it happens to be at an ivy league institution, there's nothing to be ashamed of.

i think what impressed me a lot about this program that i haven't seen at any other (and they're all starting to blur by now) was the way the PD spent the time before the interview day picking out something from everyone's application and reading it during the orientation hour to demonstrate how diverse the interviewees were....and how this results in yale having such a diverse housestaff year after year. it was something that made that interview day stand out from the others, and the more interviews i attend the harder it is to tell one program apart from the other, so it was a nice touch.
 
i did my undergrad in new haven and i have a few thoughts:

yes, there is plenty to do around new haven, but it's mainly focused around the undergrad campus, which is absolutely beautiful in its gothic architecture. the medical campus is not far from it. in all it feels yale is trying to make the campus look like cambridge a bit, but it's not as nice an urban area. true, you are 1.3 hours from nyc, and in 4 years there, i was down in nyc up to 10 times, which is worth it. it's a diverse area so you get lots of exposure to great lectures, culture, and restaurants...people there are liberal academics and it's fantastic if you are also. you'll love the food- the best new england pizza is around there along with thai.

but let's be honest, it's not the nicest of towns. lots of undergrads like to stay, but many opt to go for the same reasons applicants to IM residency will chose another school - it's not THAT great a town. enduring it for law school is one thing, but for residency, it's not a must-have to go through it. try a conversation on one of the local streets on your cell without having an amublance siren away by you. as for crime, common sense will help anybody to an extent, but stuff does happen to students there. there is some night life near chapel street that will be fun - you'll meet fantastic people from all areas of academia around, particularly at grad school functions.

the research there is no doubt top notch and while you can simply gather that from its reputation, what will surprise you is how receptive the faculty are to students, even undergrads. ive had some profs teach undergrad courses and they are inspiring, as you would hope.

finally, look into the ancillary staff. most of yale has been struggling with labor issues, and if i remember correctly, labor union issues with nursing has only recently been settled after years of argument...check that out.

if you're from the midwest like myself, you have to get used to a new england attitude - it's not cold, but it's not welcoming either. it's just different.

you can fly directly into new haven, but it's generally not cheap to do that. you can train it up from nyc for cheap. flying, go to hartford and take connecticut limo to yale (van service).

hope that helps.
 
Disclaimer - I spent a month at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester on a IM subspecialty rotation, so I feel like I got a very good inside look at part of the program, although I didn't see much of the inner workings of the general IM teams. This review only refers to the Mayo - Rochester program.

Overall - The major strengths of the Mayo IM program is an absolute dedication to education, a strong focus on academic medicine, and an institutional culture of excellence. Disadvantages for some include the location, lack of patient diversity, and the emphasis of sub-specialty medicine over primary care.

The Program Director - The program director, Dr. Kolars, is one of the very few people to have been a program director at another program before - at the University of Michigan. Dr. Kolars is very nice and friendly on interview day, and each resident I spoke to said that he was great, very approachable, and a solid advocate for residents who has been effective in making changes. Nobody expects that he'll be leaving any time soon. He's also very active in the IM world, so he likely has some good connections.

The Chair - I never saw the chair nor do I know much about him. His role in the residency was never mentioned. I know a resident who works with him in a lab, and says that he's a nice guy.

Residents - This is a big residency program with 144 categorical residents; 48 per year, plus 4 chief residents, and 24 prelims. They come from 93 medical schools, with no particular medical school seeming to dominate, although typically the single biggest group comes from the University of Minnesota although this varies. Mayo Medical Schools seems too small to contribute many to their residency. About 20% of each class is made up of FMGs, all of whom I've interacted with have been amazing. The residents are typically the upper crust from midwestern medical schools, and in my experience they all range from excellent to amazing. About 35% of residents are AOA. They seem to get along very well even when very busy, and the culture of collegiality and teamwork definitely applies to the residents. It's common to see service pagers handed off from intern to senior for educational activities and if/when the intern get swamped, and other interns frequently offer to carry the service pager as well. Mayo Medical School is small but there are many visiting medical students; still, only about half the teams include a student. Residents at Mayo are expected to wear professional attire. On call and post-call they wear scrubs and a white lab coat, but at other times they are expected to be in a suit or shirt/tie/sport coat. The PD explained on interview day that this is to honor the patients just like one dresses up to attend a wedding to honor the bride and groom. In my experience the patients seem to appreciate it, and it also serves to reduce the apparent heirarchy as it's hard to tell who's who. Some may think that the suit thing makes Mayo pretentious, and while it's true that those at Mayo tend to regard the institution very highly, I've found the residents and staff to be very warm and welcoming. Every Mayo resident I met seemed very happy.

Faculty - Mayo has a huge number of faculty members, with 600 IM faculty including 140 cardiologists and 82 gastroenterologists. There is a web-based evaluation system ("ISES" I think) for the consultants (Mayo-speak for attending), residents, and medical students. Everybody evaluates everybody. The system seems to function very well with both rating scales and spaces for descriptive comments, required for everybody to complete, totally anonymous, and I was told faculty make adjustments based on the feedback, most commonly in reducing the amount of time spent rounding. Some faculty have been removed from the teaching services in the past based on their evaluations. There are no private attendings. Every faculty member that I saw made a point to teach above and beyond what was required, and treated the residents with great respect. I would regularly have nice, collegial conversations with consultants (Mayo-speak for "attending") only to later realize that they are world-famous.

Patients - 80% of their patients come from Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa, which consists mostly of white farmers with some diversity provided by the Somali, Hmong, and Hispanic population. Mayo has a relatively huge number of patients flown in from across the US and the world, although this still makes up a small fraction of the total patients seen by residents. Mayo sees an amazingly large number of patients, and the PD said that with the number of patients they have he could double the size of his residency and is one of the reasons why the rumors about Mayo being "fellow run" are just not true. On my subspecialty rotation this was certainly true as my primary service was made entirely of residents and the fellows had their own service. The only rotation with significant fellow interactions are MICU in which the fellows and G3s tend to run the show, and oncology, where fellows write the chemo orders but leave almost everything else up to the residents.

Conferences - Mayo has a number of conferences for residents. Generally there will always be a ~45 minute, small group, protected teaching session specific to the service you're on led by one of the attendings or sometimes a fellow. This frequently is spent going over questions from the Mayo board review book with some good discussion after each correct answer is given. There are also noon conferences 5 days/week with lunch provided. Then there are numerous subspecialty conferences, which you can attend in place of your regular conference if you wish. The quality of the conferences that I saw was excellent. The conferences all seem to be very well attended, and I remember it being very rare that a resident or intern missed a teaching session unless they were on a "late start" day. There is also an EBM curriculum in which interns present a question, search strategy, article, and discussion, and from interview day these seemed very high quality with good discussions. The program also provides a board review course. Their board pass rate is among the top 5% in the US, so they're clearly teaching the core topics well.

Sites/Facilities - The IM residents spends about 2/3 of their time at St. Mary's Hospital and 1/3 at Methodist Hospital. St. Mary's is located about 8 blocks from the "downtown campus" which includes the main Mayo buildings and Methodist Hospital, and is serviced by shuttle running most of the hours of the day and typically includes a 5 minute wait and 3 minute ride between campuses. Residents only typically need to hit both campuses in a single day if they have clinic or are on a consult rotation covering two hospitals, or if they want to hit one of the many specialty lectures. St. Mary's is an old hospital that has been very well kept up. I believe all rooms are singles, at least in St. Mary's but probably Methodist as well. Mayo has what I suspect is the oldest EMR, most of which was developed in-house. It unfortunately requires multiple applications, but after logging into the computer your logon info is passed to each program, and when you switch between patients in one program it's updated in the others. Text order entry is done by computer but labs and radiology are done on paper forms. Admission H&Ps, discharge ("dismissal" in Mayo-speak) summaries, consult notes, clinic notes, and imaging are in the computer, with in-patient daily notes currently being hand written. They are working on moving daily notes into the EMR. There is a computer mounted on the wall outside each room, and teams all have computers on wheels. The main resident work room and conference room looks nice and well-used and is on the floor with the general medical services; other work rooms I've seen are less spacious and the computer is not so modern and sometimes there are people waiting to use it. The large cafeteria serves standard food but has a good variety. Call rooms are large, have a computer in each, and are generally either located right by the clinical area covered (MICU) or on the top floor of the hospital. I've walked through Methodist briefly once and it looks like maybe a newer building but similar to St. Mary's. Ancillary services have to be among the best, if not the best, anywhere in the US. For example, there is not only a catheter team, but a male and female catheter team. Everyone is very professional, from the doctors to the janitors and transport people. In my experience, patients were already very happy with their care by the time I met them to do the admission H&P up on the floor as everyone who worked with them so far had been very professional, polite, and courteous; needless to say, it made for a much more pleasant experience for me to have patients so well treated. The clinic buildings downtown are gorgeous and look more like 5 star hotels than anything else. I've never seen any of the primary care clinics that the IM residents cover. There are extensive tunnels under the main campus, obviating the need to spend time outside. There is also a federal prison that residents have an option of spending time at if they wish. There is also a local free clinic and a new charity clinic specifically for residents. Mayo has a new simulation center that residents in their MICU rotation practice running codes on. Mayo residents can also spend a month at the Arizona or Florida campus, and are provided with the flight, a car to use, and housing while there.

Location - Mayo is located in Rochester, Minnesota, a town of 90,000 people. It is frequently cited as one of Money magazine's Best Places to Live as housing is cheap, the local schools are good, and the population tends to be well-educated and seems to consist mostly of Mayo and IBM people. There have been influxes of Hispanic, Somali, and Hmong people recently, however, giving the primary care clinics some diversity. Rochester is located an hour and half south of the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul, and residents seem to get up to "the cities" with some regularity to shop, eat, etc. Rochester does get cold, and it snows a lot, making the tunnels around Mayo very useful. Most residents live within 10-15 minutes, and close parking is provided so transportation and dealing with the cold isn't difficult.

Schedule - ISES, the evaluation system described above, is also used to log duty hours anonymously. Hours violations are handled in a systems-based approach, and residents have been pulled from services that can't meet the ACGME guidelines and program expectations. Mayo does not use a day or night float system, but instead uses a "late start" system in which those on call arrive at 1 pm so they can stay later the next day to get all their work done. The intern year includes 8 months of q6 call and one month of elective which can be a research block. Interns admit up to 5 patients per call day. The G2 year typically has 3-4 months of call, 2 of which are q4 and 1-2 is q6. The G2 year has one selective month and one elective month. G3 year typically has 6 months of q4 call and they strive to treat the senior residents as "junior faculty." The G3 month includes two selective months and one elective month. Late in the G2 year or early in the G3 year there is a curriculum in the science of teaching and medical education. Mayo is one of the 17 original EIP programs. Their EIP focuses on educating residents to improve patient care, and seems to include a huge number of smaller initiatives, one of which includes a root cause analysis presented at the end of each M&M. I've been told that some changes have been made stemming from these analysis. And of course, the EIP designation also is some assurance that it's a quality program. Residents have their continuity clinic a half day per week, which is either the clinic for local residents of Olmsted County, or for those outside Olmsted County. This seems a bit odd as some residents see almost nothing but bread and butter general IM, whereas some only see those who travel in to the Mayo and sometimes will literally bring suitcases of outside medical records with them. Like residents at every other place I've visited, the most commonly sited weakness of the program is the emergency department. The ED at Mayo has a very short wait time and no observation unit, so patients tend to get admitted very quickly leading to a decent number of questionable admissions. Also, the ED chooses not only if a patient will be admitted, but also to which service, so subspecialty services will get admissions that clearly don't belong on their service. Mayo may be putting a senior resident in the ED to help with such decisions.

Tracks - Mayo has two research tracks, a fairly traditional "short track" and a Clinical Research Training Program which people can do after residency and sometimes includes a master's degree. There is no primary care track. The PD does have funding up to $2000 per resident to provide the opportunity to do an international rotation, about half of which are to a site that no Mayo resident has been before. The Mayo program typically sets up residents with no less than 3 advisers, one of which is an Associate PD, one is a career mentor, and one is a continuity clinic advisor. Residents report getting excellent guidance even during their first year.

Research - They said that every year a few graduates go on to community-based practice and they are supportive of this, but they are clearly geared towards academic, research-heavy, subspecialty medicine. Residents can get a month for research per year of training, and any work accepted for presentation at a national meeting is automatically funded and coverage is arranged by the program. The same is also provided for one conference during residency in which you do not have a presentation. Residents commented that they typically accumulate multiple patients to write up as case reports per year of training and they they have have more opportunities to do case reports than time to write them up. Residents average 6-7 projects, 3-4 abstracts or presentations, 1 manuscript published, 2 manuscripts in press, and 2.67 Mayo-sponsored trips for presentations. Mayo ranks #1 in ACP resident research competition winners.

Fellowships - The focus of the residency does not seem to be primary care, and with such a research focus it's not surprising that fellowships are very popular. From my count about 80% per year go on to subspecialty fellowships not counting those who might do a fellowship in general IM. The three most popular fellowships are cardiology, GI, and heme/onc. Mayo has very strong fellowships in most areas, and it's not surprising that many residents come to Mayo hoping to stay on for fellowship and many do. Mayo publishes a match list of institutions where Mayo residents have gone from 2001-2006 but does not provide a yearly breakdown with numbers to each location so it's hard to fully evaluate their match list, but their match list seems solid to excellent.
 
ok, So I had misquoted the caps at UMich in the past, and wanted to correct that error. I just talked with someone currently at UMich, so this info should now be correct.
On wards, an intern on overnight call can admit (between noon and midnight) 4 new patients + one unit transfer. Short call is 2+1. Maximum cap at any time for interns is 8. These numbers may however differ with ICU/CCu units.
 
20% FMGs @ mayo??? Isn't that a lot for an elite program? They're probably the best of the best tho.
 
Considering the fact that an attending-level FMG with 10 years of clinical experience can beat yo' intern ass, I think there's nothing wrong with FMGs other than our xenophobia. (I'm an AMG, for the record)
 
20% FMGs @ mayo??? Isn't that a lot for an elite program? They're probably the best of the best tho.

Going off their current roster, I count:
PGY3: 12 of 52 are FMGs
PGY2: 7 of 44 are FMGs
PGY1: 13 of 47 are FMGs
Total: 32 of 143 = 22%

Like I said, each FMG I talked with seemed amazing, and the few I worked with were most assuredly amazing. I also found that the international crew really does add some diversity and broader perspective that one would not ordinarily find in a city of 90,000 surrounded by farm land.
 
mumpu are u 462 burninator? what's burninator?
 
What's the good word on Cornell and Mt. Sinai. Havn't seen much on them and I'm about to head there after the interview offseason is over.
 
I have noticed people have been asking about BU and no one has responded. My 2 cents as a student at BU is that it is an amazing place as far as exposure to clinical pathology – HIV, TB, Sickle cell galore. Our patients are truly the underserved. The attendings are for the most part excellent, although one of my sub-I attendings made some very disparaging comments about women and minorities. I believe he is tolerated because many attendings have a long history at BU going back to the days of the old Boston City Hospital and I would say the atmosphere at BU is still quite formal and hierarchial. For instance, it is rare for the attending to round with the team, they mostly round privately with the senior residents in the afternoon. On my third year clerkship, my attending kept calling one of my interns by the wrong name. A few times a week (usually 2-3), our attending would meet with the team including med students and the interns for "attending rounds" where we would discuss a case or a topic of interest. Attendings would switch off service every two weeks.

Drawbacks to the program: Despite the high quality of morning report, interns do not attend because of their workload. Frequently interns cannot make it noon conference either. And my intern frequently did not make it to Wednesday "Intern conference" although it is supposed to be protected time. As a sub-I, I sat next to a day float who got paged every 5 minutes, I am not kidding. He was dripping with sweat and cussing every single time he got paged. I would not call my team members on my third year clerkship or sub-I happy people. Man, was my senior resident bitter. One of the interns left the program this year – I knew this person and IMO, I thought they were very competent and very nice as well. Based on last year's match results, most of the med students going into IM from our class rank all of the Harvard programs higher. Obviously BWH and MGH are of better quality, but my impressions from talking to them as to why they rank BID higher is because the ancillary staff and support is better and the atmosphere is not malignant. The ancillary staff at BU . . .could be a lot better. You have to struggle a lot to get anything done, particularly with some of the nurses. Some of them are well-known for being so freaking lazy or disinterested it is scary that they have been working there for so long. Remember our patients have no one to advocate for them. I would never take anyone I know to that hospital. I would have seriously ranked this program much higher if people seemed happier and were better supported.
 
Any input will be highly appreciated about Oklahoma University, OKC
 
Also... anyone have any idea on what to do as far as sending out thank you notes after MGH interview? No one's sending a note to each panel member, right? :(

just wondering if anyone had an answer for this? not sure what to do. thanks
 
just wondering if anyone had an answer for this? not sure what to do. thanks

I sent a letter to the chair of my interview team and one to the PD. In the one to the interview chair I mentioned the other members of the interview team by name and asked her to send my regards to them as well (or something like that). There's no harm in sending a letter to everyone on the committee but I doubt it will be of much benefit either.
 
Positives: Absolute dedication to service. This was a fact that the program leadership emphasized throughout the interview and that was very impressive. The Boston City Hospital has a long and storied history as "the" place in Boston for the underserved. I believe that the number was 30% of Boston's uninsured are cared for here. At one point the City Hospital was the training ground for residents of Tufts, Harvard and BU... apparently a fight then erupted over the hospital before BU took over. A new NIH grant to built an emerging infectious diseases research center has "artificially" inflated BU's NIH funding status to top 10. Good fellowship placement. I really liked the program director and my interviewer... they seemed like genuine straight shooters. A fat endowment means that lunch at noon conferences is always provided but never by Pharma. High level of autonomy. Lots of opportunities for research. Intern salary is a whopping $50 000/a (apparently this groups of residents is one of the few with a union) making BU IM interns the best paid in Boston. Residents where generally happy and denied being overworked but admitted to working hard. The PCT is one of the few tracks in the nation where primary care residents do not do fewer ward/call months then cat residents!

Negs: At a different interview, I encountered a BU student also on the prowl for an IM residency... and he echoed what was posted by the BU student above. He did not want to stay because of the enormous workload and lack of support. It's difficult to know what to think. I have read on scutwork that ancillary support services have improved considerably since 2004. I heard that at one time BU WAS a top 3 program for grueling work hours and scut but I've also heard that things have changed in the last little while. The result is that at the Roxbury VA where BU residents train with both BWH and BID residents, you will find that the BU residents will be ones running all the codes while the BWD/BID residents are the ones to shine on morning report. This would be unfortunate but I did get this impression... that BU is trying very hard NOT to compete with the Harvard schools rather it is trying to sell the idea that it is offering a totally different experience from every other Boston hospital- one that's rooted in rigorous clinical training and serving the underserved. As a result the program did have a very traditional feel. There are few opportunities to develop research/public health skills even though the University is attached to a very good public health school and there is good research being conducted all around. There are no international health opportunities even though there is increasing interest among residents. These things sort of take away a bit from the program.

On a side note: I think good ideas have inherent merit... and you don't have to think of it first to implement it. I would rather be at a program that recognized good ideas and implemented them quickly, then one that feels that they have to think up every good idea themselves for it to be implemented in their program. My ideal program is therefore less one that innovates in one or some fields as much as one that adopts the good ideas in ALL fields whether it was their idea first or not.

Another concern is lack of diversity! Does the fact that most patients are underserved mean that I will be spending all of my time dealing with the very depressing issues of people with no primary care, substance abuse problems and social problems? This would be very challenging.

Overall: Despite the big section of Negs, this may be one of my favorite programs. The program's dedication to service WAS inspiring and it did pull on my heartstrings a bit about why it is I'm on this path in Med. My primary goal in residency IS to become a competent clinician and I think this program will lead me there. On the other hand I'm concerned about the programs willingness to look beyond it's own underserved population and beyond the borders of it's hospital to cultivate a culture of innovation, resident well-being and interdisciplinary relationships...
 
MTOTO:
let me help you out a little bit.
I am currently a 2nd year resident at BMC.
the beauty of this program as a clinical place,is indeed its variety.
You have Harrison campus, the old City Hospital if you will, with its underserved population, great clinical pathology, but also a certain amount of social admits.
However, social services are excellent, case management well organised, so that you won't really have that many headaches discharging your Pts. The average stay on Harrison Camp is 5.4 days/pt.
Ancillary services indeed have improved significantly, with 24h phlebotomy, for blood cultures and stat labs you now don't even have to page them, the computer order system will do that for you.
In my intern year I put in 3 peripheral and never had to draw blood.

In contrast to the old City Hosp, the old University campus, now referred to as Newton Campus, will present you with referral Pts to the amyloid, scleroderma, vasculitis programs at BU, all of which have a international reputation, as well as a significat portion of rather clinically complex renal Pts. There are discussions regarding a potential separate renal service in the future. Mixed in between are bread and butter medical Pts from some of the affiliated Healthnet centers.
These Pts tend to be sicker and more complex, however are usually already plugged into the system.
Lastly the VA experience.
THis variety is the reason for an excellent clinical training, and indeed is reflected as you pointed out at the VA, where BU, BWH and BI rotate through. I am not sure if we run the codes and the Brigham kids shine at morning report. There is no difference in general at morning report between the programs, there are smart kids in all three...and believe me not so smart ones as well..IN ALL THREE...but clinically I believe no one will doubt, that BU residents in general are usually more experienced and seasoned. And again this is more a general observation over the full breath of a program and may differ on individual bases.
This however comes with a price, and the price is indeed a significant work load. As most residents chose to come to BU for that reason, none of us feel overworked, but there is no doubt, that this program will make you work and become very efficient in no time.
Some BU students tend to be tired of that philosophy, and believe, since the trained here as med students, residency would be a time to move on to cusher grounds, and so it may be, others decide to stay here, and again this is a personal decision.
Whether as a previous poster mentioned, one goes to BU or BI is not really a question of which is the better program. Both will get you where you want with no difference between the Match success from either program. BUt the choice is really a reflection of different philosophies. Of the training program as well as its trainees.
International medicine is really somewhat a lack of the program, although recent classes have all had 4-6 people per year go to India or Africa. Usually self organized, but once you indicate your interests the program is very supportive.
This is actually the main point:
The program does not offer you a menu to choose from at the beginning of the year, which track you like, with a predetermined agenda, but as it is very front loaded, you will have a lot of flexibility as a resident to do whatever your heart wishes. The program directors are very supportive.
It's a great place to train, with great people to train with and under.

Lastly, an opportunity that you may not have to chance to hear enough about, but that is advertised on the website, is the CREST program. It's a fully dunded prohram for 6 residents per year to have a dedicated 10 week block with classes at the Shool of public health in epidemiology and statistics, which credits can be used to obtain an MPH. there is alos a scholary project, usually pf clinical research nature, that is to be completed in that time and support to present your data nationally is provided as well.
If you are interested in broadening your training in this direction, you should inquire more about this particular program It is very well received and you can apply late in your intern year or as a 2nd year for it.
 
20% FMGs @ mayo??? Isn't that a lot for an elite program? They're probably the best of the best tho.


Most of the FMGs that I interacted with during the interview day came from western Europe, the UK, Australia, and Puerto Rico and were incredibly accomplished (MD/phD) and smart. I don't think there were any carib grads.
 
Most of the FMGs that I interacted with during the interview day came from western Europe, the UK, Australia, and Puerto Rico and were incredibly accomplished (MD/phD) and smart. I don't think there were any carib grads.

Puerto Rico is in the Caribbean.

Just sayin... :p
:)
 
U Mich is definitely less malignant compared to the past, but it seems like the intern yr is pretty bad. Cap of 12 patients per intern -- is pretty high. I had a few residents tell me they were overworked, and some LOOKED plain tired. I'm not sure if this is the norm for all interns across the nation, as I'm early in the interview process.

I loved the PD and everything else about the program. But still concerned about malignancy at U Mich. Just my impression. What did others think about it?

Google.

UM caps were 12 last year, this year they are 8. 7-8 call months.
 
I'll explain call at University of Michigan as an intern. there are several nuances to each service, but practically it is like this.

Your on call 7-8 months (assuming this doesn't change)
your q 4 with a long call and a short call.
long call the most you admit per tern is 4 to 5 depending on the service. Short call the most you will admit is 3 per team, so you could get 1 or 2.
You don't admit past midnight, unless they are an ICU patient and you are on a service with an open ICU (cards and gen med at VA) or they are a transplant patient. Some services have 4 teams of 2 terns, in which case you take call together, some services have 2 teams of 2 terns, in which case each tern takes call alone.

The medical ICU is different. There is one senior and one intern, both take overnight call together, and there is no short call team, you can admit 6 per call.

The most patients you carry is 8 ever. (9 in the CCMU, but your senior and you really both have those patients)

You typically cross cover about somewhere from 15-25 patients.

The program is the opposite of malignant. Just meet the program directors and you can see that.

The program is large, 50 some terns including prelims.

There is exposure to everything under the sun, but HIV i think is a relative weakness, inner city populations are a relative weakness. Rural medicine is a weakness.

Work hour restictions are not an issue. The program and university are very interested in following ACGME rules. They have 1) hired a hospitalist service to off-load medicine services to reduce patient loads 2) employed resident assistants and enacted a day float to help get post call teams out by noon.

Ann Arbor is a small town with a cosmopolitan feel given the large number of professionals who live in the area, many hailing from large cities. It has been named one of the most intellegent/educated towns in the US in the past. The cost of living is high by midwest standards, but low compared to east or west coast. Chicago is 3 hours away, Detroit is 45 minutes, Cleveland 2 hours.

The hospital is very busy, and financially stable. One of only a few academic medical centers to actually make money. House officer compensation is probably in top 3rd of residency programs, we have great labor union that negotiates house officer benifits.

Patients are sick here, and you will be busy, but not overwelmed, and there is always help around for anything. 80 hours is 80 hours anywhere. I think there is great learning that takes place, both with the mix of patients you see and the general importance placed on teaching. You can get a fellowship in anything you want from this program. Most importantly, you will be a competent physician when you are finished.

I don't particularly like being an intern because 80 hours is 80 hours (thats a lot of work!!), but I love this program, and feel it is among the best in the country. I don't think anywhere else offers better training in most things.

Feel free to email me at [email protected] with questions.
 
Most of the FMGs that I interacted with during the interview day came from western Europe, the UK, Australia, and Puerto Rico and were incredibly accomplished (MD/phD) and smart. I don't think there were any carib grads.

graduates from Puerto Rico med schools are not FMG, they are AMG since their schools are LCME accredited.
 
Hi everyone!
Just wondering if anyone could offer their thoughts on any of the following programs:

U of Cincinnati
U of Louisville
UNC
UAB
Baylor
MUSC
UT-Houston

Thanks!
 
In terms of prestige and fellowships- if you want to do them outside where you do residency- I'd have to say Baylor. UNC is known for having their residents stay there for fellowships... Baylor grads seem to be more diverse at to where they end up.
 
Thanks Turkleton! I've heard really good things about Baylor with regard to fellowship placement too. Any other info? I'm actually applying for med/peds, but I feel like I'm rarely getting the full picture at my interviews because they are trying to tell us about both programs in one day. I figured the categorical IM applicants could offer much more insight since you have more time with the medicine residents/faculty and probably had a chance to ask many more questions.

Nevermind on UT-Houston.
 
I'll explain call at University of Michigan as an intern. there are several nuances to each service, but practically it is like this.

Your on call 7-8 months (assuming this doesn't change)
your q 4 with a long call and a short call.
long call the most you admit per tern is 4 to 5 depending on the service. Short call the most you will admit is 3 per team, so you could get 1 or 2.
You don't admit past midnight, unless they are an ICU patient and you are on a service with an open ICU (cards and gen med at VA) or they are a transplant patient. Some services have 4 teams of 2 terns, in which case you take call together, some services have 2 teams of 2 terns, in which case each tern takes call alone.

The medical ICU is different. There is one senior and one intern, both take overnight call together, and there is no short call team, you can admit 6 per call.

The most patients you carry is 8 ever. (9 in the CCMU, but your senior and you really both have those patients)

You typically cross cover about somewhere from 15-25 patients.

The program is the opposite of malignant. Just meet the program directors and you can see that.

The program is large, 50 some terns including prelims.

There is exposure to everything under the sun, but HIV i think is a relative weakness, inner city populations are a relative weakness. Rural medicine is a weakness.

Work hour restictions are not an issue. The program and university are very interested in following ACGME rules. They have 1) hired a hospitalist service to off-load medicine services to reduce patient loads 2) employed resident assistants and enacted a day float to help get post call teams out by noon.

Ann Arbor is a small town with a cosmopolitan feel given the large number of professionals who live in the area, many hailing from large cities. It has been named one of the most intellegent/educated towns in the US in the past. The cost of living is high by midwest standards, but low compared to east or west coast. Chicago is 3 hours away, Detroit is 45 minutes, Cleveland 2 hours.

The hospital is very busy, and financially stable. One of only a few academic medical centers to actually make money. House officer compensation is probably in top 3rd of residency programs, we have great labor union that negotiates house officer benifits.

Patients are sick here, and you will be busy, but not overwelmed, and there is always help around for anything. 80 hours is 80 hours anywhere. I think there is great learning that takes place, both with the mix of patients you see and the general importance placed on teaching. You can get a fellowship in anything you want from this program. Most importantly, you will be a competent physician when you are finished.

I don't particularly like being an intern because 80 hours is 80 hours (thats a lot of work!!), but I love this program, and feel it is among the best in the country. I don't think anywhere else offers better training in most things.

Feel free to email me at [email protected] with questions.

Hi Nick,

I truly think UM is a great program for IM.

I want to ask you what type and how many (0, 1 or 2) follow-up (letter, email, etc.) did you get from the UM program? Do you think that in general (from your point of view) that there's a relationship between the number/type of follow-up from the program and the ranking position that they will put you in?
Do you think there could be any relationship?

Cheers:luck:
 
I want to ask you what type and how many (0, 1 or 2) follow-up (letter, email, etc.) did you get from the UM program? Do you think that in general (from your point of view) that there's a relationship between the number/type of follow-up from the program and the ranking position that they will put you in?
Do you think there could be any relationship?

let me preface this by making it clear that it is not my intention to incite an argument or put you on the defensive.

with that said, are you seriously expecting that an intern from the program will be able to answer your question? (it's a loaded question: the answer is no, as only the PD can answer that, and furthermore, no PD will ever answer these questions coming from an applicant since it could only come back to bite them in the a** if they start disclosing this info, some of which can be argued as illegal per the match rules to tell you).

secondly, regardless of the answer you might get, would that change the way you rank that program? i don't know how many times it has to be reiterated on these forums, or if it's a reflection of you not yet understanding the match algorithm, but let me restate the two most important things to know when it comes to the NRMP match:

1) the match process always favors the applicant.

2) you cannot--so don't even try--to "outsmart" the rank/match process. there is no strategy, and part of the reason why the match process was created was so that all applicants were on a level playing field in the match and thus could formulate their rank list without any undue influence from a PD, intimidation by fellow applicants, or pressure to approach the match process as though it's a game that requires strategy and knowledge of all of the rumored behind-the-scenes correspondence that, whether it happens or not, is illegal with serious consequences if it results in a program indicating anything specific about how you will be ranked by them, other than broad statements like "you will be ranked highly" (which may be true, but if you rank them #1 and don't match there, you have no grounds to accuse them of lying or misleading you, since being ranked "highly" can mean being in their top 100 for all you know).

Having been through the process once before and reading these posts over the years, I think people ask these questions to fish for answers that will be reassuring and anxiolytic. It's understanding to want to hear someone tell you that everything's going to work out just fine, but no one can provide you with that reassurance. The only reason I'm so emphatic about this is because putting these questions out there can only lead to two outcomes:

1. you get false reassurance, and no matter how many people you ask or how many ways you try to fish for answers, you'll never be satisfied with the answers because no one can provide you with that reassurance (at least legally).

2. you hear a discouraging response that wounds your self-confidence and ego, and this leads to you modifying your rank list not because you've changed your mind about where you want to go but because you forget the two rules I reiterated above and shortchange yourself in the match for all the wrong reasons. to me, that's tragic and misguided, and you'll forever wonder what would have happened if you simply trusted your gut and nothing else when it came time to create your rank list.

if you want to be at UM, rank them #1. it doesn't matter if other applicants had flowers sent to them by the PD and you got nothing...just rank them #1 and if it's meant to be then you will be there in July.
 
While I agree partially with what mcindoe is saying, I understand the anxiety that made someone ask the post -interview follow-up question.

I applied to U mich. I think my interview went well... from what I could tell.
I immediately recieved a Thank you letter from the PD and my interviewer the next day. I can't remember the exact word, but seemed something along "will rank me highly." No correspondence since then. I would love to hear if others who interviewed at U Mich have had similar or different experiences in this regard.
 
To continue my earlier post... Although I would not change my match list based on this info, it is anxiolytic for me to gather as many facts as possible about the post-interview correspondence, even if it makes no difference in the outcome.

A friend of mine recently recieved a somewhat personalized post -interview letter from Mayo saying he will be ranked highly. (Not a list of the resident publications or that "mayo is #1 employer email). Have other people recieved similar emails from Mayo too? I'm getting a little nervous, since I didn't recieve any such mails.
 
UCSF
+’s: relaxed, laid back atmosphere, increased patient diversity from 3 hospital system, hospitalist attendings, international health opportunities, PRIME program (facilitates research), happy residents, basically no private attendings, at Moffit: EMRs generally good (can print off all consolidated data – makes pre-rounding easier), NP’s make f/u appts, confirm radiology appts, admin helps with your errands, great ancillary support
-‘s: expensive city, difficult to get to/from the hospitals, open ICU at Moffitt, ancillary support may not be good at SFGH, DOM chair is interim only (instability?)

Hopkins
+’s: fellowship matching doesn’t get any better, pt population –
Baltimore is a mecca of urban disease, firm system provides collegiality, Hopkins reputation and connections (its like a fraternity), emphasis on problem-based/clinical learning, front loaded program may free up time 2nd and 3rd years
-‘s: 1 hospital experience (mostly), Baltimore crime, occasional egos, firm system (better hope you don’t have any malignant ppl on your firm), less face time with faculty, elitest, too many questions may be unwelcomed, difficult intern year (late start system results in basically no sleep q4 which may throw you off the other 3 days as well)
Marginal –‘s: ancillary support, social issues

Can someone comment on the below rumors as to their accuracy?

Rumors: malignant program, competition, egos, the residents are gunners, they work you to death, although back-up is present, its not encouraged

One current intern there curb-sided an applicant and told him/her not to come to Hopkins. What the significance of this is, I’m not sure because I don’t know this intern’s reasons.
 
What was the intern turnout like at pre-dinners and social functions? Poor intern turnout should raise red flags.
 
hey google!

i too interivewed at the mayo clinic and received a small personalized interivew note from one of my interviewers- but I am not taking it to mean that I will be ranked highly on their list!


Here are my two cents about Mayo-

+: MAyo is loaded with cash :) , curriculum, lots of research , fellowship placements from B to A+ ( they love inbreeding)

-:No one is talking about this , but the level of sweet-talking at Mayo did make me feel uncomfortable during the interview day, especially with PD trying to goad interviewees in to telling him the inside scoop on programs.

resident quality: I will be struck by lightening for making this statement :scared: the intern quality did seem not up to what I have seen at comparable hospitals: there was one fmg on the team I rounded ( was kickass as someone suggested in a previous post: shd have been an attending somewhere, I am not so xenophobic after all you see) . but the intern I rounded with was from some Southern medical school ( accent yeah!) and was pretty basic ( read more like a fourth year medical student): so is resident quality hurt by Rochester??? are people there just for the MAyo tag?

the place does not seem to be as procedure-oriented as other places ( why is not any one saying this!!): they have bone marrow teams!:mad:


pl feel free to take a jab at my opinions!!
 
lankena --

I did an away elective and interviewed at Mayo. I'm planning on ranking Mayo highly, but am conflicted for some of the reasons that you perceived on your interview day.

My experience with the interns and residents was largely positive. The residents on my team were brilliant and one especially enjoyed teaching. The interns were very bright, but seemed rather passive. (Your intern may have been having a bad day...or was an exception :) Didactics were largely fellow or attending run -- but were evidenced-based and excellent.

Procedural experience on actual patients is problematic at Mayo. From my perspective, Mayo protects its reputation/status by not letting inexperienced interns/residents do procedures on their patients. There are teams to do a-lines, IVs, bone marrow aspirations, etc....this all benefits the patients. The residents and interns I observed were able to do procedures, but had to be more proactive (and wait for the fellows to complete all of their required procedures) in order to do them...and I suspect their overall numbers aren't as high as residents in equivalent programs.

Mayo has state of the art simulated patient labs. Now that the ACGME has changed the procedural requirements to only *knowing* the steps to certain procedures such as central lines, it will be interesting to see how and if the institution responds to this. (A question I wish I would have asked on my interview day!)
 
Just my $0.05... as I did do an away at Hopkins (though admittedly not with the department of IM per se).

My impression was that the residents/students generally range from unhappy to miserable, but despite this everyone that I spoke to felt incredibly LUCKY to be training there. Reasons cited include the resources, the research and the outstanding faculty. I still think that it's strange though to feel so lucky to be so unhappy.

I have no doubt that a lot of this has to do with the city of Baltimore. It is just hands down the worst city that I have ever seen in my life... and don't underestimate how miserable this can make you (I was ready to leave after 2 weeks!).

I have heard of an ER resident from my medical school who started his residency at Hopkins. After 1-2 years however he transferred back to us! The reason- his social life was going up in flames...

Anyway, all this was enough to make me not apply to the any of the programs in the area.

Just a word of warning... for those of you dazzled by the program, to think hard about JHU's "lifestyle challenges" which as far as I have seen and heard are second to none!
 
lol... learning steps of a procedure , but not getting to do it constitutes to being competent now!!

My impression of their residents may be wrong: but the guy I was with was truly 'dense'. "Bright, but passive": thats hitting it on the head:cool:

I plan to rank Mayo highly , but I wonder whether it will show up in my top 3.........
 
UW
+’s: very positive reports about UWMC and Harborview (a county hospital that is efficient and has good ancillary staff – a rare commodity), laid back, relaxed atmosphere, the city of Seattle in general

-‘s: program doesn’t try to make itself more navigable even though it’s a large program, Seattle has lots of traffic and is overcast most of the time, unresponsive PD, but the PD does have connections, unstable situation with uncertain change in PD (nobody can pinpoint the time it will happen), later call schedule (don’t get out until 3pm as an intern, poor VA ancillary staff, poor EMRs
 
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