International Student Wanting to Go to MD Schools

[satdixon]

Hey everyone! So this question is for my friend and not me. My friend is an international student attending a Texas university for undergrad, and wants to apply to medical schools in the US. He is interested in MD and is also considering DO. He has extensive research experience with one first author publication and one second author publication, and had worked in 6 labs. He also was also president of a tutoring club, and has committee head position for another club. He has a 3.9+ GPA, and is expected a 515ish MCAT score. Realistically speaking, what chance does he have for US medical schools?

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[KnightDoc]

Does he have a Green Card? If so, he has as good a chance as anyone, which is to say, he'll need the shadowing, clinical experience and non-clinical volunteering that the rest of us do. He certainly has research locked down!

OTOH, if he is only here on a student visa, his path will be much more difficult, since many schools won't even look at non-permanent residents, and most of those that will are tippy top schools for which cookie cutter ECs and a 515 won't get it done. The reason for this is that all US schools are looking to primarily train US physicians, and, without permanent resident status, there is no guarantee that any international student will ultimately be able to work permanently in the US.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

One of my friends from undergrad was an international student and is now at Harvard medical school, so it’s definitely possible. She had alot more luck at the research powerhouses (HMS, Hopkins etc.) than she did at “lower” ranked schools, likely due to the fact that lower ranked schools are oftentimes trying to produce physicians who will serve in a certain area whereas top schools are less particular in the physician they are trying to produce.

 

[LizzyM]

Another reason that schools are resistant to admitting applicants who are not citizens or permanent residents is that the cost of medical school is steep and without access to federal loans the likelihood of being able to finance the degree is slim. However, if your friend is sitting on a $500,000 nest egg, have 'em call me.... I mean, tell them to go ahead and prep the hell out of the MCAT and apply to the top schools.

 

[KnightDoc]

Another reason that schools are resistant to admitting applicants who are not citizens or permanent residents is that the cost of medical school is steep and without access to federal loans the likelihood of being able to finance the degree is slim. However, if your friend is sitting on a $500,000 nest egg, have 'em call me.... I mean, tell them to go ahead and prep the hell out of the MCAT and apply to the top schools.

TBH, many schools that accept international students mitigate this risk by requiring an escrow of some or all of the total 4 years' worth of tuition and fees up front. So, again, aside from the tippy top schools that make fin aid available to attractive international candidates, they are cash cows. The bigger issue for the other schools really is training doctors to practice in the US, even above attracting full pay foreign students, which is a very popular thing in the UG world nowadays.

 

[LizzyM]

TBH, many schools that accept international students mitigate this risk by requiring an escrow of some or all of the total 4 years' worth of tuition and fees up front.

Right. But who's sitting on that kind of money? You admit someone, they hold a seat and then don't have the cash so you scramble later to fill the seat. Sure, some schools have a mission to educate people to serve local communities but plenty of those people are FMGs on J-1 visas so what's the difference in that regard?

 

[KnightDoc]

Right. But who's sitting on that kind of money? You admit someone, they hold a seat and then don't have the cash so you scramble later to fill the seat. Sure, some schools have a mission to educate people to serve local communities but plenty of those people are FMGs on J-1 visas so what's the difference in that regard?

The same people whose family send them to the US for UG. You can vet them on the front end just like you vet citizens.

Again, I'm not talking about top schools that have money to fund international candidates they want in their class. Lower ranked schools do accept fully pay international students, and it's not a mystery from their application who is a first generation refugee and who comes from a wealthy family that can place the full 4 years' worth of tuition and fees into escrow upon matriculation.

As you know, relatively few schools accept applications from international students in the first place. Of those that do, even fewer offer them any financial assistance, and, to my knowledge, all require escrows, proof of funds, and/or an American co-signer for private loans before any seats are actually held for anyone. The risk of having to scramble at orientation to fill a seat allocated to an international student who doesn't show up is the same as for anyone else who gets cold feet or has a last minute situation.

 

[Goro]

Hey everyone! So this question is for my friend and not me. My friend is an international student attending a Texas university for undergrad, and wants to apply to medical schools in the US. He is interested in MD and is also considering DO. He has extensive research experience with one first author publication and one second author publication, and had worked in 6 labs. He also was also president of a tutoring club, and has committee head position for another club. He has a 3.9+ GPA, and is expected a 515ish MCAT score. Realistically speaking, what chance does he have for US medical schools?

Impossible to determine without an MCAT score.

International students usually are superstars.

 

[LizzyM]

The same people whose family send them to the US for UG. You can vet them on the front end just like you vet citizens.

Again, I'm not talking about top schools that have money to fund international candidates they want in their class. Lower ranked schools do accept fully pay international students, and it's not a mystery from their application who is a first generation refugee and who comes from a wealthy family that can place the full 4 years' worth of tuition and fees into escrow upon matriculation.

As you know, relatively few schools accept applications from international students in the first place. Of those that do, even fewer offer them any financial assistance, and, to my knowledge, all require escrows, proof of funds, and/or an American co-signer for private loans before any seats are actually held for anyone. The risk of having to scramble at orientation to fill a seat allocated to an international student who doesn't show up is the same as for anyone else who gets cold feet or has a last minute situation.

I'm not saying scrambling at orientation but in the spring when it hits the fan that one is not getting a full scholarship. With room for only 1 out 20-50 applicants, choosing to cull the herd by saying, "no international students" makes sense to some schools.

 

[satdixon]

Impossible to determine without an MCAT score.

International students usually are superstars.

He got his MCAT score today and got a 519, and has a 3.82 cGPA. He was around 150 hours of shadowing that he completed last december/january, and has started volunteering at a food bank as of this semester

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The medical school affiliated with my UG seems to take most of the international students in classes directly from the UG, so maybe look to see if your UG/affiliated med school has a similar arrangement

 

[satdixon]

The medical school affiliated with my UG seems to take most of the international students in classes directly from the UG, so maybe look to see if your UG/affiliated med school has a similar arrangement

So since he's from Texas, TMDSAS schools don't accept international students

 

[KnightDoc]

So since he's from Texas, TMDSAS schools don't accept international students

So, no Green Card? If not, coming from TX, it's going to be possible, but not easy. When he does his research, he's going to find only a limited number of schools that will even accept an application from him. His stats are very decent, but they honestly won't impress most schools that will take an application from him, as mentioned several times above.

Most importantly, can his family afford to fund 4 years' worth of tuition and fees upfront, or does he have an American willing to cosign loans for him? If not, he will be limited to the very few schools willing to consider extending need-based aid to international students. It's important to be aware of all of these issues going in, to avoid massive disappointment later, as a DACA recipient on SDN learned the hard way at one school last year after being accepted and then not allowed to enroll.

 

[satdixon]

So, no Green Card? If not, coming from TX, it's going to be possible, but not easy. When he does his research, he's going to find only a limited number of schools that will even accept an application from him. His stats are very decent, but they honestly won't impress most schools that will take an application from him, as mentioned several times above.

Most importantly, can his family afford to fund 4 years' worth of tuition and fees upfront, or does he have an American willing to cosign loans for him? If not, he will be limited to the very few schools willing to consider extending need-based aid to international students. It's important to be aware of all of these issues going in, to avoid massive disappointment later, as a DACA recipient on SDN learned the hard way at one school last year after being accepted and then not allowed to enroll.

Yeah he has not Green Card, but he did his high school and undergrad here. He says his parents are willing to pay up front. So loans won't be an issue. What schools would you suggest he apply to?

 

[gyngyn]

Yeah he has not Green Card, but he did his high school and undergrad here. He says his parents are willing to pay up front. So loans won't be an issue. What schools would you suggest he apply to?

Only 42 MD schools consider international applicants.
I suggest that he apply to all of them that matriculated more than three last year. Schools that admit fewer than three are often considering only internal candidates.

Applying to Medical School as an International Applicant

Information for international applicants who want to apply to U.S. medical schools.

students-residents.aamc.org

 

[Goro]

Only 42 MD schools consider international applicants.
I suggest that he apply to all of them that matriculated more than three last year.

Applying to Medical School as an International Applicant

Information for international applicants who want to apply to U.S. medical schools.

students-residents.aamc.org

And those do schools that accept International applicants as well.

 

[satdixon]

Only 42 MD schools consider international applicants.
I suggest that he apply to all of them that matriculated more than three last year. Schools that admit fewer than three are often considering only internal candidates.

Applying to Medical School as an International Applicant

Information for international applicants who want to apply to U.S. medical schools.

students-residents.aamc.org

Do you think lower ranked schools with lower MCAT scores will screen him out due to him being too qualified in regards to his score?

 

[gyngyn]

Do you think lower ranked schools with lower MCAT scores will screen him out due to him being too qualified in regards to his score?

It may depend on their history of success with this uncommon type of applicant.

 

[satdixon]

It may depend on their history of success with this uncommon type of applicant.

What do you mean by that?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Do you think lower ranked schools with lower MCAT scores will screen him out due to him being too qualified in regards to his score?

Even if they would, there’s no room for self selection when the number of options are so low. I would say, just tell him to apply to all schools at which he would be eligible to enroll. MD and DO

 

[KnightDoc]

What do you mean by that?

They mean that all schools keep a history of past cycles, and if a given school has a history of 3.8/519 international applicants turning down acceptances, that school would be a candidate to screen him out. Just like what happens with the rest of us!

I think your friend is going to be fine, given the superlative MCAT, decent GPA, excellent research, history of attending school in the US, and ability to self fund. My advice would be to take @gyngyn's advice, tell you friend to get a MSAR subscription, and apply to as many of those schools that accept applications from international applicants as appeal to him. He definitely has a leg up on many international applicants since he will have college transcripts from US schools.

Given that the DO degree is less accepted internationally, and given that domestic candidates with your friend's stats would certainly be screened out by most DO schools, I honestly wouldn't bother with them, at least not until after your friend tries MD only first.

 

[satdixon]

They mean that all schools keep a history of past cycles, and if a given school has a history of 3.8/519 international applicants turning down acceptances, that school would be a candidate to screen him out. Just like what happens with the rest of us!

I think your friend is going to be fine, given the superlative MCAT, decent GPA, excellent research, history of attending school in the US, and ability to self fund. My advice would be to take @gyngyn's advice, tell you friend to get a MSAR subscription, and apply to as many of those schools that accept applications from international applicants as appeal to him. He definitely has a leg up on many international applicants since he will have college transcripts from US schools.

Given that the DO degree is less accepted internationally, and given that domestic candidates with your friend's stats would certainly be screened out by most DO schools, I honestly wouldn't bother with them, at least not until after your friend tries MD only first.

Also my friend was wondering if it would be beneficial to apply to MD/PhD programs too in addition to this MD schools. What are y'all's thoughts on that?

 

[KnightDoc]

Also my friend was wondering if it would be beneficial to apply to MD/PhD programs too in addition to this MD schools. What are y'all's thoughts on that?

I'm not a MD/PhD candidate myself, so the question is a little outside my wheelhouse, but those spots tend to be fully funded (no tuition), often by the federal government, so I'm not sure he'd be eligible. That would probably be a question for him to direct to each school he is considering.

 

[Orims]

Also my friend was wondering if it would be beneficial to apply to MD/PhD programs too in addition to this MD schools. What are y'all's thoughts on that?

I personally know a few international friends who are doing MD/PhDs and got similar MCAT score. They had stellar applications with thousands of research hours and the only "blemish" was the "low" MCAT score. Most MD/PhD programs are funded by government programs, so international students would not be considered. However, the T20s and T10s have their own non-government funding and can support a few international MD/PhD students. Of course, shooting for a T20 - 10 would make the application cycle exponentially more difficult.

Good luck to your friend. As a fellow international student, I know the struggle.

 

[candbgirl]

Also my friend was wondering if it would be beneficial to apply to MD/PhD programs too in addition to this MD schools. What are y'all's thoughts on that?

Does he lots of research and publications etc?

 

[success16]

I am an international student myself on a student visa that will be graduating from a top 10 medical school in May. I had very similar stats to your friend, do not have a family with money and certainly could not afford medical school tuition out of pocket. I went to a small unknown undergrad and was still successful. I am happy I didn't listen to the naysayers but instead sought out international students who were successful. The key is to be strategic with the school application list. People are correct in that many state schools and some private ones won't consider applications from international students so it makes no sense wasting money to apply to those places. Tell your friend to target the private schools that blind citizenship status when selecting students for interviews and offer scholarships or financial aid to us. There's a list of such places on this website Which Medical Schools Should I Apply To? International Student Edition that has a network of successful international students, some of who are now residents. It is not impossible, more challenging, yes but certainly not as awful as people make it seem. Keep hope alive. Feel free to PM with questions.

 

[allseasons]

I have a friend with a near 4.0 and 520 with very good (but not X factor level) ECs that was accepted solely to DO schools almost certainly because she was on a student visa. This is the only data point I personally know, but it suggests it is possible, just difficult.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hey everyone! So this question is for my friend and not me. My friend is an international student attending a Texas university for undergrad, and wants to apply to medical schools in the US. He is interested in MD and is also considering DO. He has extensive research experience with one first author publication and one second author publication, and had worked in 6 labs. He also was also president of a tutoring club, and has committee head position for another club. He has a 3.9+ GPA, and is expected a 515ish MCAT score. Realistically speaking, what chance does he have for US medical schools?

I interviewed a med student at HMS who started an organization called F1 Doctors, which is dedicated to helping international pre-meds and med students. Your friend might want to check it out or the interview with the organization's founder. Very impressive guy.

 

[Goro]

Also my friend was wondering if it would be beneficial to apply to MD/PhD programs too in addition to this MD schools. What are y'all's thoughts on that?

Impossible to answer without an MCAT score.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Impossible to answer without an MCAT score.

I think there was an addendum to the original post in which op mentioned a 519, which should at least put him in the running for MD/PhD

 

[satdixon]

Impossible to answer without an MCAT score.

His MCAT score was 519