International Student - Chances and Advice Please!

[medhopeful07]

Hi, I'm a Canadian student who has graduated with a 3.55 cGPA from a Canadian uni. I'm interested in applying to med schools in the US, but I'm worried about my chances, especially with such a low cGPA. MY Science GPA is around an 82 and would love to know if that is low and whether I should retake some courses to improve it. I think that my research and clinic setting volunteer experience is pretty competitive but I still haven't taken the MCAT and hope to get a good score on it to make up for my GPA.

I was also considering doing a MPH in the hopes of improving my chances. I would love to hear some feedback about international applicants my chances at schools like Icahn School of Medicine or Georgetown.

Thank you!!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[backside_attack]

Why those specific schools? With that GPA and a science GPA lower than that (isn't an 82 approximately 3.2-3.3?), my gut says you really don't have a chance at those schools, especially as a non-citizen. Now it is really hard to give you more answers without an MCAT, so that is just a preliminary thought based on average GPAs at those schools.

Also, MPH won't do anything to improve your chances, and many adcoms will see right through it as a way to make your application stand out. There's been a discussion recently (couple weeks ago?) about adcoms viewing MPH degrees as application padding (even when the applicant is truly interested in public health, unfortunately).

Give us more details on your app and why those schools specifically (are your parents alumni?) to help give a better answer.

 

[medhopeful07]

Thanks for your response! From my understanding, an 82 should be around the 3.5/3.6 mark but I may not have calculated my GPA accurately. I am just basing them off of my Canadian transcript, do you know if it drastically differs from AMCAS GPA calculations or how to calculate the AMCAS GPA?

I attended quite a challenging university and program for my undergrad in Canada, and unfortunately my first and second year marks suffered (3.3). However, my recent grades have been in the 3.7/3.8 region. I have already completed my undergrad degree and am doing a supplemental post-bacc, full course load year to further increase my GPA since I believe that to be the weakest link in my application. I am thinking about doing a second post-bacc year but am worried about the stigma associated with doing two post-bacc years and if most schools even consider those grades.

I mentioned the above schools since I heard that they were friendly to international students and I also have family in those areas, as well as in Michigan, but I'm open to other suggestions!

Thank you!

 

[backside_attack]

Thanks for your response! From my understanding, an 82 should be around the 3.5/3.6 mark but I may not have calculated my GPA accurately. I am just basing them off of my Canadian transcript, do you know if it drastically differs from AMCAS GPA calculations or how to calculate the AMCAS GPA?

I attended quite a challenging university and program for my undergrad in Canada, and unfortunately my first and second year marks suffered (3.3). However, my recent grades have been in the 3.7/3.8 region. I have already completed my undergrad degree and am doing a supplemental post-bacc, full course load year to further increase my GPA since I believe that to be the weakest link in my application. I am thinking about doing a second post-bacc year but am worried about the stigma associated with doing two post-bacc years and if most schools even consider those grades.

I mentioned the above schools since I heard that they were friendly to international students and I also have family in those areas, as well as in Michigan, but I'm open to other suggestions!

Thank you!

Okay, I understand why you named those schools. But look at their stats and GPAs before you get too excited about them (I say this not to be mean but to be a realist.... I had to do a lot of reality checking for myself during this process). I googled "4.0 GPA scale" and a B- is 2.7 and a B is 3.0 so I'm being a bit generous with my estimate. I don't know how to calculate an AMCAS GPA, but there's a thread on this forum with a link to a calculator that was updated recently. I would suggest you use that, see where you stand, then decide about the other classes you might take.

Where did you get the idea that schools don't consider those grades? Schools have to consider any course you submit to calculate the GPA (via AMCAS). If you mean that schools don't weigh them heavily, I haven't heard that either - except in the case where the program is actually graduate school and not undergraduate. For example, I have a graduate degree and no one gave any thought to that GPA because they can't cross compare applicants on grad GPA if not everyone has it. It was, essentially, a cool extracurricular as far as comparisons go. They can compare applicants via undergrad GPA because we all must have one. As long as you are taking post-bacc courses that are qualified as "undergraduate", they go into your cumulative GPA. AMCAS does list your degree vs. your post-bacc courses separately, but it all gets bundled into a cumulative GPA at the end. Does that make sense? Hope it wasn't entirely incoherent.

If you are retaking classes, then AMCAS will include both old and new in your GPA. ACOMAS will replace with the higher grade in your GPA calculations.

 

[Dullhead]

I googled "4.0 GPA scale" and a B- is 2.7 and a B is 3.0 so I'm being a bit generous with my estimate.

A Canadian 82 should convert to an A-, which would be a 3.7. Last page of linked document straight from AAMC, last 4 rows of the very last page (Grading system type - Numeric Canadian). I don't know what each of those rows represents, but on every single one of them, an 82 places at an A-, or a 3.7.

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...140d8acb35af/amcas_grade_conversion_guide.pdf

 

[backside_attack]

A Canadian 82 should convert to an A-, which would be a 3.7. Last page of linked document straight from AAMC, last 4 rows of the very last page (Grading system type - Numeric Canadian). I don't know what each of those rows represents, but on every single one of them, an 82 places at an A-, or a 3.7.

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...140d8acb35af/amcas_grade_conversion_guide.pdf

Oh wow, I really had no idea it was so different. Like I knew Canadian schools graded harder/don't participate in grade-padding quite as much as US institutions, but I was totally ignorant to how different. Hopefully this changes thing for OP!

 

[medhopeful07]

Wow that is quite different! I also noticed that an 87+ equates to a 4.0 but in Canada it's normally an 85!

 

[trev5150]

FYI: Being Canadian doesn't make you a Non-traditional student.

Traditional: High School > Uni > Med school.

Non-traditional: Second career. Older students. Students returning after multi-year gaps.

 

[medhopeful07]

Okay, I understand why you named those schools. But look at their stats and GPAs before you get too excited about them (I say this not to be mean but to be a realist.... I had to do a lot of reality checking for myself during this process). I googled "4.0 GPA scale" and a B- is 2.7 and a B is 3.0 so I'm being a bit generous with my estimate. I don't know how to calculate an AMCAS GPA, but there's a thread on this forum with a link to a calculator that was updated recently. I would suggest you use that, see where you stand, then decide about the other classes you might take.

Where did you get the idea that schools don't consider those grades? Schools have to consider any course you submit to calculate the GPA (via AMCAS). If you mean that schools don't weigh them heavily, I haven't heard that either - except in the case where the program is actually graduate school and not undergraduate. For example, I have a graduate degree and no one gave any thought to that GPA because they can't cross compare applicants on grad GPA if not everyone has it. It was, essentially, a cool extracurricular as far as comparisons go. They can compare applicants via undergrad GPA because we all must have one. As long as you are taking post-bacc courses that are qualified as "undergraduate", they go into your cumulative GPA. AMCAS does list your degree vs. your post-bacc courses separately, but it all gets bundled into a cumulative GPA at the end. Does that make sense? Hope it wasn't entirely incoherent.

If you are retaking classes, then AMCAS will include both old and new in your GPA. ACOMAS will replace with the higher grade in your GPA calculations.

There are some Canadian med schools don't include summer courses or courses that aren't part of a degree program, that's why I'm asking about the post bacc courses, but thanks for clearing that up! I calculated a new GPA according to AMCAS to be around 3.6 and am considering retaking some science courses that I took in first year (got around a 78) at another institution next year to increase my science GPA. Overall, if all things go well, I could potentially increase it to a 3.65, maybe a 3.7 if I do another full year of undergrad courses. So basically that is what I debating! Whether to take another year fixing my grades or complete a masters/post bacc program in a health-related area.

I know a lot of pre-meds aspire to get into only prestigious schools, but I really just want to plan for the future and go to a school in a city or area where I have family/I am familiar with (New York, Michigan, Washington, Chicago).

I also looked up Georgetown and Icahn using MSAR and found their median matriculated GPAs to be 3.7 and 3.8 respectively. As a Canadian student, would I need to have a higher GPA than US applicants to have a better shot? Thanks!

 

[medhopeful07]

FYI: Being Canadian doesn't make you a Non-traditional student.

Traditional: High School > Uni > Med school.

Non-traditional: Second career. Older students. Students returning after multi-year gaps.

Sorry for the post, but I'm new to this forum and this category was the only one that I could find to post under.

 

[trev5150]

The Canada section perhaps.