Importance of GPA/Acceptance chances?)

[aspiring-dentist101]

I've been wanting to post about this for a very long time. I have been busy with family, interviews, work, etc. So I haven’t been able to post on sdn. I have decided to post it now for the sake of future applicants. This is intended for future applicants and most importantly for those that did poorly during the early years in college and are concerned about their gpa before applying.


Im a pretty optimistic person when it comes to making thoughtful decisions and following through with it. I hate to sound negative and discouraging if I come off as one. But I am only stating the truth and my experience with this application cycle. Take it with a grain of salt as they say.


Unfortunately, most schools want to make you believe that they value GPA trends, academic difficulties explained in your application, etc, to make up for bad early years of GPA. The schools that I thought would acknowledge these aspects of my applications didn’t even bother to do so. I’m talking about thriving, earning mostly A’s and one or two B letter grades for dental school requirements, having a legit postbacc degree that actually meets the ADEA standards. Even with a good DAT score (above average for most schools).


Quite frankly, A lot of dental schools are starting to value GPA over DAT because this obligates applicants to apply to their master programs. More money in their pocket. Ironically, schools that don’t have dental school postbacc/masters degree program didn’t give me such hard time throughout the cycle. I don’t mean to say no one should enroll in postbacc or masters degree to show improvements on GPA. But if you already earned a postbacc degree after your bachelor's degree and you are still advising students enroll in your masters is just outright wrong. It doesn’t make sense. No one wants to have +$50k in loans before starting dental school.


I can’t speak for everyone, but in my case, I was very confident that dental schools would consider overcoming academic struggles explained and showing significant “upward trends” as they mention. This is not true. At least for dental schools that I applied to. I think its just part of the game, to make applicants reapply for the next cycle or even pay extra to enroll in a masters program. It seems that some schools won’t put the time and effort to read any of that with the number of applications they get per cycle. So really if you’re applying this upcoming cycle, calculate your AADSAS GPA and think about if you need to apply for masters. That is if you don’t have a significantly high GPA. Don’t just rely on showing upward trends and explaining your academic difficulties to make up for the academic portion of your application. Tbh this had to be one of the most exasperating parts of my experience, diminishing my chances to some of the schools I applied to this cycle. Because I know I can do well in dental school and wouldn’t need to pay extra to earn masters degree to make up for my poor early school performance.


I understand that GPA is a significant factor of the application but should be to a certain extent. Not everyone will have a high GPA right off the bat as they may experience some sort of difficulties. Either I underestimated or didn’t realize that GPA is such a HUGE factor for some schools. To a point where they’ll prioritize it over DAT, experiences, research, or even interview score. No joke.


I am not sure why some schools even mention the concept of upward trends when in reality it means so little nowadays. If its not looked upon or won’t be enough to convince the committee, even by a slight chance of their academic improvements or being capable of handling dental school, then why bother mentioning it to students that its a thing admissions committee consider. I really hope some of these dental schools change their perspective with this for future applicants and give a fair chance to those with an actual “upward trend” because this was clearly a disappointing experience for me. Having a low GPA is one thing but being able to overcome that and showing significant improvement is one thing. Not being given a chance for GPA improvements is a slap in the face. And if you don’t value GPA improvements as much as you claim you do, then do not mention it on your website and student seminars. You are giving applicants false hope. I say that because this was a clear case for me. Good amount of applicants that I personally know have been given opportunities and have gotten accepted to the same programs I applied with much lower DAT score, less hours of ec, experiences, research, you name it. Though I am happy for them. They work hard as well. But I am just speaking from my own perspective. I don’t want to name any schools here because it is not right for their reputation. I don’t mean to criticize but I do believe applicants have the right to be given a fair chance as other applicants that are in the similar standings.


Narrowing admission decisions mainly based on GPA, or prioritizing it over everything else, you’ll jeopardize your chance of having students with the ambition and drive towards the field of dentistry. I do have to point out that I was given very few chances by some schools and I’m still thankful for that.


So this is something to consider for upcoming applicants. Definitely major in something that will get you high GPA throughout your college career if you haven’t done so yet. Its majorly numbers game to most schools. Look into the programs and do your research before selecting schools to apply to. Don’t rely on just showing upward trends, good DAT score, or justifying your poor early academics in the application. Work on your GPA to have a solid chance of acceptance by December. Def do your research on the schools and know what they value before applying come next cycle. I know there are dental schools out there that do take upward trends into account. Just not the ones I applied to. And to those with solid GPA, don’t worry too much about not submitting your application early in the cycle. You’ll be fine! Best of luck to all the future applicants!

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[Faefly]

Op, I am sorry that these schools didn't value your hard work and your dedication.

I hope you get accepted somewhere good that deserves you.

 

[ESPN907]

Basically, to those applying this cycle, DO YOUR RESEARCH! Knowing what type of applicant you are and applying where you’ll be most competitive makes all the difference come December. All the schools I applied to had GPA and DAT score averages below mine and I still got rejected by 3 and waitlisted at 3. You cannot judge your competitiveness solely on GPA and DAT averages because OOS and IS averages differ so much that the overall average doesn’t always represent your competitiveness well.

 

[asdfhhadsf234]

How do I find schools that value upward trends?

 

[BullGator1004]

How do I find schools that value upward trends?

You don't until you roll the dice and apply. Schools will say a lot of things to get anyone and everyone to apply. Some will actually give your application a holistic look, some will say they will but your application will be weeded out by a computer program either because of your GPA or your DAT score before a human even sets eyes on it. It's a crapshoot. Look at OOS friendly schools.

 

[severage]

GPA and DAT I'm convinced are the most important part of your application.

 

[deleted942432]

GPA and DAT I'm convinced are the most important part of your application.

Dat/GPA 70%. Interview 20%. The rest 10%.

 

[AEZDent]

Dat/GPA 70%. Interview 20%. The rest 10%.

This might be true for certain schools but I’d argue in general against this statement. While GPA and DAT are very important everything else you put on your application is important as well. You wanna do whatever you can to make yourself stand out from other applicants

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

From the admissions people I've spoken to it seems like 40% DAT/GPA, 35% interview + letters, and 25% ECs. Most schools have some secretive point process where they only offer an acceptance if you meet a point threshold.

 

[rk1229]

From the admissions people I've spoken to it seems like 40% DAT/GPA, 35% interview + letters, and 25% ECs. Most schools have some secretive point process where they only offer an acceptance if you meet a point threshold.

I’d say this is pretty accurate for most schools. Some schools though told me straight up GPA and DAT are top priority because those are the only way to gauge if you will finish their program academically. Honestly, the whole process is a crapshoot haha. I have average stats and got 7 interviews, and some of my friends with near perfect stats only got 2-3. So who knows what these adcoms want man. Beats me ‍♂️

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

I’d say this is pretty accurate for most schools. Some schools though told me straight up GPA and DAT are top priority because those are the only way to gauge if you will finish their program academically. Honestly, the whole process is a crapshoot haha. I have average stats and got 7 interviews, and some of my friends with near perfect stats only got 2-3. So who knows what these adcoms want man. Beats me ‍♂️

Yeah process is super random. Stats gets you in the door but you've gotta have everything else to cross the finish line.

 

[rk1229]

Yeah process is super random. Stats gets you in the door but you've gotta have everything else to cross the finish line.

Agreed.

 

[aspiring-dentist101]

How do I find schools that value upward trends?

Learn more about the program. Call them to discuss your situation. The schools know exactly what they are looking for. This will save you A LOT of money. And it is true that they weed out your application if it doesn't meet their standards. Which its sad from an applicant perspective. Having to spend that much money on application fee just to get a broad feedback that is used as template for every applicant.

Cant stress how important it is to research and learn about the programs!

 

[aspiring-dentist101]

GPA and DAT I'm convinced are the most important part of your application.

Without a doubt! But never realized how much more important is GPA than DAT to be more specific. Definitely caught me by surprise this application cycle.

 

[aspiring-dentist101]

DAT and GPA is the crucial aspect of the application, no question. But my point is that schools are valuing GPA over DAT entirely. They definitely don't go hand in hand. I'd say a good DAT score would only work as a supplement to one's GPA. It slightly enhances it, whereas I used to think a good DAT score makes up for an average GPA.

It might be that the computer program schools use sort GPA of applicants in descending order and they just go with whatever DAT score they have (unless its a score below average). I am not 100% sure on this though.

 

[macsak]

DAT and GPA is the crucial aspect of the application, no question. But my point is that schools are valuing GPA over DAT entirely. They definitely don't go hand in hand. I'd say a good DAT score would only work as a supplement to one's GPA. It slightly enhances it, whereas I used to think a good DAT score makes up for an average GPA.

It might be that the computer program schools use sort GPA of applicants in descending order and they just go with whatever DAT score they have (unless its a score below average). I am not 100% sure on this though.

yet you state it as fact that schools are only looking at GPA
the truth is, it varies from school to school, and the only people that know are the admissions committee people

 

[ESPN907]

I’ve heard that adcoms are simply looking for everything to “match” because when they feel like parts of your app don’t match others that’s a red flag. Are GPA and DAT in a similar range? Do the LOR and extracurriculars agree with one another? Is the person we envisioned from reading the personal statement what we saw in their interview?

 

[BullGator1004]

I’ve heard that adcoms are simply looking for everything to “match” because when they feel like parts of your app don’t match others that’s a red flag. Are GPA and DAT in a similar range? Do the LOR and extracurriculars agree with one another? Is the person we envisioned from reading the personal statement what we saw in their interview?

IF (and it's a big IF) the school(s) take the time to look at your PS, LORs, and ECs. So many applications get thrown out before it even gets to that point because the GPA and/or DAT don't meet their (often unstated) minimum criteria.

 

[Life of Pablo]

DAT and GPA is the crucial aspect of the application, no question. But my point is that schools are valuing GPA over DAT entirely.

I think it varies school to school. Overall, I’d say schools value DAT over GPA though. It’s the only way schools can compare students side by side. Getting a 3.8 GPA from one school may be much harder to do than at another school. Admissions committees know this.

Having gone through this process, I think the person with a 3.3 GPA and a 25 on the DAT is better off than the person with a 3.9 and an 18 on the DAT.

 

[BullGator1004]

I think it varies school to school. Overall, I’d say schools value DAT over GPA though. It’s the only way schools can compare students side by side. Getting a 3.8 GPA from one school may be much harder to do than at another school. Admissions committees know this.

Having gone through this process, I think the person with a 3.3 GPA and a 25 on the DAT is better off than the person with a 3.9 and an 18 on the DAT.

But you don't know, nor does anyone else here, because the process is a crapshoot overall. There is no real knowledge to gain from this site when everyone is just posting conjecture.

 

[ASPEN'S NIGHTMARE]

From the admissions people I've spoken to it seems like 40% DAT/GPA, 35% interview + letters, and 25% ECs. Most schools have some secretive point process where they only offer an acceptance if you meet a point threshold.

OSU is one of these schools! They have an excel sheet and you have to get an overall score of like 76 or 79/100.

No idea what formula they use or how much weight they give to each subject/variable tho

 

[aspiring-dentist101]

yet you state it as fact that schools are only looking at GPA
the truth is, it varies from school to school, and the only people that know are the admissions committee people

I said I am not 100% sure. Throughout the thread I only stated my personal experience in this application cycle, which many students may have encountered the same experience and some may have not. If you never experienced it and are passed that stage then you can disregard this. And yes, only admissions committee people hold the answer to our application. I agree, it is an obvious fact.

 

[aspiring-dentist101]

I’ve heard that adcoms are simply looking for everything to “match” because when they feel like parts of your app don’t match others that’s a red flag. Are GPA and DAT in a similar range? Do the LOR and extracurriculars agree with one another? Is the person we envisioned from reading the personal statement what we saw in their interview?

Yup, I think they def do a thorough review on everything before sending an acceptance. But this is after the interview step.

 

[BatedPenguin]

Without a doubt! But never realized how much more important is GPA than DAT to be more specific. Definitely caught me by surprise this application cycle.

I really wouldn't say GPA is more important than the DAT, if that was the case I wouldn't have gotten any interviews or acceptances.

 

[rk1229]

OSU is one of these schools! They have an excel sheet and you have to get an overall score of like 76 or 79/100.

No idea what formula they use or how much weight they give to each subject/variable tho

Yep, Louisville has a score sheet as well. My interviewer told me when I walked in that I already had enough points so I had nothing to worry about, and we just chatted for 15 min. I wasn’t sure how real that was, but sure enough they were my first call and acceptance on December 3rd.

 

[OrphanageCaretaker]

IMHO, GPA matters more than DAT because the DAT is just a standardized exam you take over a short span of time while the GPA is something you work towards over a longer period of time and therefore is a "better" gauge to your academic standing. GPA and DAT are more than 50% of what it takes for the adcoms to consider your application worthy of a possible interview and the rest is your letters/ec/PS and how well you sell yourself and your commitment to dentistry during the actual interview.

 

[rk1229]

IMHO, GPA matters more than DAT because the DAT is just a standardized exam you take over a short span of time while the GPA is something you work towards over a longer period of time and therefore is a "better" gauge to your academic standing. GPA and DAT are more than 50% of what it takes for the adcoms to consider your application worthy of a possible interview and the rest is your letters/ec/PS and how well you sell yourself and your commitment to dentistry during the actual interview.

It's hard to know if GPA matters more because the schools need to know you can do well on standardized tests and pass boards.

 

[aspiring-dentist101]

IMHO, GPA matters more than DAT because the DAT is just a standardized exam you take over a short span of time while the GPA is something you work towards over a longer period of time and therefore is a "better" gauge to your academic standing. GPA and DAT are more than 50% of what it takes for the adcoms to consider your application worthy of a possible interview and the rest is your letters/ec/PS and how well you sell yourself and your commitment to dentistry during the actual interview.

What if lets say you attended one of the top prestigious, Ivy League university. Whereas I attended a private school that could get me a high gpa with much less effort. Wouldn't you as an admission committee want to compare something more systematic like DAT?

 

[Cthuluhoop]

IMHO, GPA matters more than DAT because the DAT is just a standardized exam you take over a short span of time while the GPA is something you work towards over a longer period of time and therefore is a "better" gauge to your academic standing. GPA and DAT are more than 50% of what it takes for the adcoms to consider your application worthy of a possible interview and the rest is your letters/ec/PS and how well you sell yourself and your commitment to dentistry during the actual interview.

While I understand what you're saying about the DAT being a small snapshot of your academic career, the DAT is a standardized test. Therefore it's a level playing field for all schools. A 4.0 at X University my not be a 4.0 a Y University, lots of grade inflation occurs at various universities. The DAT equalizes the field

 

[Faefly]

While I understand what you're saying about the DAT being a small snapshot of your academic career, the DAT is a standardized test. Therefore it's a level playing field for all schools. A 4.0 at X University my not be a 4.0 a Y University, lots of grade inflation occurs at various universities. The DAT equalizes the field

No, it does not equalize the field, I think you should know by now that Standardized tests are biased toward certain kind of people.

Also, a high GPA at any college means you worked hard for four years, they don't distribute A's for free regardless of how different each school is.
A high DAT score means you worked hard for a couple of months.

 

[deleted942432]

While I understand what you're saying about the DAT being a small snapshot of your academic career, the DAT is a standardized test. Therefore it's a level playing field for all schools. A 4.0 at X University my not be a 4.0 a Y University, lots of grade inflation occurs at various universities. The DAT equalizes the field

The DAT is not really the equalizer anymore. With all the test prep materials available nowaday, it's who can afford the best study materials. It's not testing your knowledge from undergrad anymore, but who can memorize the most materials from all the prep tests out there. Bootcamp really killed the game, it's almost the replica (harder imo) than the real thing.

 

[Crown2018]

The DAT is not really the equalizer anymore. With all the test prep materials available nowaday, it's who can afford the best study materials. It's not testing your knowledge from undergrad anymore, but who can memorize the most materials from all the prep tests out there. Bootcamp really killed the game, it's almost the replica (harder imo) than the real thing.

I respectfully disagree. DAT still is the equalizer because it's a standardized test, meaning it's an assessment that's scored on a bell curve. With your logic, EVERYONE who "memorizes" the Bootcamp should be getting a 23 AA. According to the recent statistics from ADA, 23 AA is still considered above 97th percentile, which means only 3 ppl out of 100 scored 23+. It's true that there are a lot of test prep materials out there nowadays, but that doesn't mean anything because DAT is a standardized test.

 

[ESPN907]

In one interview my GPA was brought up and my interviewer mentioned they “knew” what my GPA meant coming from my school. I think generally adcoms might have an idea which schools have problems with grade inflation.

 

[Cthuluhoop]

The DAT is not really the equalizer anymore. With all the test prep materials available nowaday, it's who can afford the best study materials. It's not testing your knowledge from undergrad anymore, but who can memorize the most materials from all the prep tests out there. Bootcamp really killed the game, it's almost the replica (harder imo) than the real thing.

The people who create the DAT know what they're doing, the average DAT score hasn't changed in many years even with increase in prep materials. You can't buy your way to a good score. Every single standardized test has had an increase in test prep materials, not just the DAT

No, it does not equalize the field, I think you should know by now that Standardized tests are biased toward certain kind of people.

Also, a high GPA at any college means you worked hard for four years, they don't distribute A's for free regardless of how different each school is.
A high DAT score means you worked hard for a couple of months.

And yet the DAT remains one of the pillars to the application process for a reason. Since a 23+ is still a 98th percentile and higher, they don't just hand out high DAT scores even if you just worked hard for a couple of months

 

[OrphanageCaretaker]

What if lets say you attended one of the top prestigious, Ivy League university. Whereas I attended a private school that could get me a high gpa with much less effort. Wouldn't you as an admission committee want to compare something more systematic like DAT?

All I'm saying is from personal experience, GPA matters more. Yes there are many factors to admittance and we ourselves only speculate what formula/method adcoms use to accept applicants but in my case, my GPA and DAT were considered to be average. I didn't get in my first round so I decided to meet/sit down with adcoms from different schools so I can ask what I could do to become a more competitive applicant. 5 out of the 6 recommended a program (masters/post-bacc etc) to raise my GPA compared to retaking the DAT while the 6th said to do a masters/post-bacc AND retake the DAT. Upward trends, courseload, inflation etc all factor in as well. My advice to anyone who wants to keep a high GPA is go to the private or state school university where a high GPA is possible (do-able) compared to an Ivy school where fighting against classmates is common - because of a set amount of grades prof's can give out - thereby limiting your chances of a high GPA unless you grind to the bone for every class (you'll burn out eventually). Name of the universities also doesn't matter tremendously, sure it factors in if grade inflation is common or GPA difference between you and someone else is .1 or .2. If you went to an Ivy and scored a 3.5 and someone went to a private/state and scored a 4.0, the 4.0 has the better chance regardless of school name. Just my two cents.

 

[Faefly]

And yet the DAT remains one of the pillars to the application process for a reason. Since a 23+ is still a 98th percentile and higher, they don't just hand out high DAT scores even if you just worked hard for a couple of months

Just because something is still in use does not mean that it is ideal or the best way to choose future dentists.

 

[doktorinprogres]

My advice to anyone who wants to keep a high GPA is go to the private or state school university where a high GPA is possible (do-able) compared to an Ivy school where fighting against classmates is common

just curious by your recommendation in your post did you attend an ivy?

 

[doktorinprogres]

The DAT is not really the equalizer anymore. With all the test prep materials available nowaday, it's who can afford the best study materials.

DAT Destroyer and Bootcamp are really all you need maybe chads videos if your base is weak. If you're in college you're paying a **** ton already. Dental school is even more debt. The cost of those test prep materials are not prohibitive especially considering this is the entrance to your future career. Yes it sucks but anyone who's considering this should not skimp on those materials. It's seriously worth taking extra loans from school or family/friends/getting a part time job etc.

Consider that if a higher score as a result of those materials gets you an acceptance in-state that cost difference is well worth it. (Sorry to all my friends who do not have an in-state public school)

 

[rk1229]

Just because something is still in use does not mean that it is ideal or the best way to choose future dentists.

It’s not a way to choose you as a future dentist. It’s a way to make sure you can finish their program and pass boards, to become a dentist. The rest of your app and interview let them know you’ll be a good dentist and work well with people.

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

No, it does not equalize the field, I think you should know by now that Standardized tests are biased toward certain kind of people.

Also, a high GPA at any college means you worked hard for four years, they don't distribute A's for free regardless of how different each school is.
A high DAT score means you worked hard for a couple of months.

Standardize tests are definitely biased but I completely disagree about your college point. If two colleges independently decide for their intro to bio class they want there to be 30% As it would be a lot harder to be in the top 30% at Rice than at UT El Paso just because Rice attracts students who were already harder working and more driven in high school. Knowing a lot of students who did not get into "top" schools and those who did I would say at the time there was a serious difference in work ethic and perhaps even intellect.

 

[setdoc7]

GPA counts. It is a picture of how well you attend college, study, and perform. This is also predicated on course load, course selection, and number of credit hours per semester. Taking Organic along with basket weaving, yoga, and Intro to a Humanistic Society is quite different from Organic, Genetics, Biostatistics, and Abnormal Psychology. Everyone who reads transcripts knows what they are looking at. Dental school is much like the second scenario, except harder, quicker, and unforgiving. You cannot drop classes in d school. So if there is any question here, d school looks for the most rigorous schedule, to predict your future success.

The DAT is a predictive exam. It is designed to predict your future ability to complete the d school curriculum. No amount of boot camp can substitute for basic knowledge and test taking ability. D students are good test takers, it is their life. Individuals who are not good test takers should avoid dental school. It will be too stressful. P/F schools give grades on their internal exams. The school knows who you are.

 

[OrphanageCaretaker]

just curious by your recommendation in your post did you attend an ivy?

Nope, had a couple friends attend some Ivy schools and they had an extremely tough time getting a high GPA and said they'd go to a state/private if they could do it over again. Anecdotal evidence but it's what I learned.

 

[aspiring-dentist101]

Op, I am sorry that these schools didn't value your hard work and your dedication.

I hope you get accepted somewhere good that deserves you.

Thank you. I see that you've gotten in your top choices. Thats good that you didn't have to go through that trouble. Saved yourself from a lot of stress and sleepless nights! Congrats on your acceptances by the way!

 

[aspiring-dentist101]

While I understand what you're saying about the DAT being a small snapshot of your academic career, the DAT is a standardized test. Therefore it's a level playing field for all schools. A 4.0 at X University my not be a 4.0 a Y University, lots of grade inflation occurs at various universities. The DAT equalizes the field

I couldn't agree with you more.