IMG PGY-1 Terminated from residency - SERIOUS HELP NEEDED

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Dr. Hopes

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Hi everyone, I am a PGY-1 who was recently dismissed from IM program due to academic deficiencies. I am going through a really hard time and I think it's appropriate to share my situation so people with more experience than me can give some more insight and advice. This is going to be a very honest and detailed long post and the narrative it's going to be in chronological order. I know I may be at risk of being identified but I believe this is an open and collaborative community created to help each other and I want to believe people won't gossip or rejoice on the misfortune of others.

I started internship last July, before that we underwent a SIM case so the program could get a sense of our medical aptitudes, as a result, some people will be starting their internship under indirect supervision, others (me) were deemed to be placed under direct supervision meaning our resident needs to be shadowing every single move we made.

First call block I was completely lost in the system, I shortly realized that my previous experiences and background didn't quite prepare me for this (I am an IMG with extensive research background in the US but no further clinical experience in this country, very good board scores) I worked really hard, remember I was arriving very early (~5-5:30am) to read about patients and have everything prepared for rounds. I could sense the stress of my resident for having an intern on direct supervision, I was trying to be efficient but it took me forever to finish my notes on time and keep up with the pace. My resident was not very kind to me, he/she would yell at me in front of others, made me cry and usually pimp on me during rounds in front of the attendings (all of them were very nice and understanding that I was just an intern in his first call block) My resident gave me a terrible evaluation, basically I was scored the minimum in all the core competencies and he/she wrote that he/she would never let me take care of any of his/her family. My attending gave me a pretty average evaluation pointing out the areas for improvement which I carefully read. At the end of the block I was called by my PD to let me know I was placed on remediation, they changed my schedule and made me repeat the rotation. The feedback they got from me was concerning for knowledge fund below average, lack of accountability in the care of patients (forgets to track down results), that I was defensive to feedback (which I don't fully understand, I treated my resident with the uttermost respect and never disobey or ignore him/her, but again, this is my perception, we both come from a different countries and there may have been some cultural differences and maybe even a personality issue) and an issue with professionalism (it was said that I was falling asleep on morning reports after night shifts and that I was using social media during the conference which I remember I did a couple of times because I couldn't help falling asleep!) This time I was determined to make it work. I had a very nice resident that walked me through everything and I could see myself being faster, more efficient and things were improving. My program lifted the remediation with a note that I should continue working on knowing every aspect of my patients and accountability with patient care (it was noted that I was not placing many orders), I got nice evaluations from my attending and even a praising award for teaching and sharing some of my research knowledge in the monthly journal club. Next block, I was on floors again at a different hospital, I had an excellent resident and things were going well, I had a very busy night when I admitted a patient with hyperactive delirium, the case was very challenging and my assessment was complicated by her combative behavior. I identified a glucose value of 65 taken 3 hours before on the ED. I precepted the case with the attending on call who encouraged me to act promptly when I face critical lab values without waiting to check with him. I run to the nurse asking for a repeated value, this time the patient’s glucose was 47 and I immediately put an order for hypoglycemia protocol. After the attending evaluated the patient he told me to order Haldol; my concern at that moment was the lack of an EKG. I remembered some studies shown that olanzapine is safer to use since it has minimal effects on cardiac repolarization compared to Haldol. The attending was receptive to my suggestion and instructed me to order olanzapine. I independently looked up the dose for agitation on UpToDate and read 10 mg. In the middle of a hectic night, I made the mistake of not double checking the dose with the attending and I didn’t read further for geriatric considerations either. I put an order for Olanzapine 10 mg when the attending found out he freaked out and instructed me to see the patient, she was HD stable and arousable but by the end of the night she was obtunded and a rapid was called. I was placed on administrative leave after that and instructed to meet my PD. He basically told me there is a rising concern for me not being able to identify critical values and not reacting promptly, additionally the Olanzapine event triggered the concern for patient safety. The CCC recommended dismissal from the program but I had a chance to meet with them, I basically went and explained that I I was very disappointed at myself, I was feeling profound contrition for what happened to my patient and I outlined an action plan to remediate myself. They gave me another opportunity but placed me on a Letter of Deficiency. My next rotation was going to be ICU but they switched it and made me do floors again. Obviously, I was placed under direct supervision. This block was terrifying for me, I was so nervous and anxious all the time, getting in there very early in the morning, chief residents were instructed to be present in my rounds to check on my presentations and thought process, I was barely sleeping or living, I was exhausted and I was also feeling very depressed since I was not allowed to cross-cover during this block. Long story short, the block ended, I progressed from direct to indirect supervision and was ready to move on to my next block (the one I was looking forward): research. However, I was called again by my PD; this time he pointed out that I didn't make enough progress to satisfy the LOD, there were still some concerns for me not promptly reacting to urgent situations (I was faulted because I texted my resident instead of calling her when I identified a patient with hypotension, I gave her fluids and got nurses involved as I was waiting for a reply from him/her but apparently I should have called, I was also faulted because we had a patient with hypoxemia that was in the low 90s when I saw him but otherwise stable, the attending, my resident and me started rounds on a different patient, when we got to this patient they reprimended me for not speaking out and dragging the team to round on this patient first) so they decided to extend the letter for 2 more rotations. By that time I was exhausted, I did 4 floor blocks in a row and I was going to do 2 more! I brought that up and they told me I could do an elective the first month and then floors again. So I did, I was working really hard during my cardiology elective, got really nice evals from the attendings, the only thing one of the electrophysiologists pointed out was that I needed to learn more EKG (which I totally agree with, EKG is not one of my strengths so I bought a book and everything to keep up with that). Last block: floors at the hospital where I began my intenship, this time I super familiar with the system, some of the nurses remembered me and we had a good relationship, I also had really nice residents and everything was going well, I was dedicated to reading about my patients every day, I was putting a lot of effort on my notes (which I was told they were really good) until my week of nights in which one day I was cross-covering and again, got paged for a patient with hypotension, I went to evaluate the patient, check the blood pressure myself, confirmed that she was 70/50, gave her a small bolus (small because she was an ESRD patient) and ask the nurse to page me back, didn't hear from her at all until I got an overhead page (for some reason the text-page didn't go throug), called her back and she told me BP was the same, I immediately contacted my resident and let him know about the situation, we checked the chart, order some labs and ended up transfusing the patient. Next morning I was paranoid, I checked the chart and saw an attending note that the patient improved with fluids and transfusion and discharge was planned for the following day. I felt relieved but again I was called by one of the chiefs, they were concerned about my management, I was told that I should have had my resident involved as soon as I was paged for a patient with hypotension. They told me I am not my own practice and what if, what if, what if, what if this patient crashed. My rotation ended without any other issues. I was called again to my PDs office to talk and I received a letter of dismissal. I was despondent to hear the news, but deep inside me, I knew this was a real possibility. I am lost, feeling that my career is over. My PD explained that the CCC feels they have given me the opportunity to remediate myself and that "the decision was made in light of the tremendous efforts required to produce minimal improvement". Some of the deficiencies outlined in the letter are repetitive like: "reacts appropriately and initiates management in common urgent/emergent situations: not achieved", but some others were new like "complete assigned educational and administrative tasks: not achieved" this meaning that I am not uptodate with submitting my clinical hours or completing blackboard cases (and it is a fact that I was not uptodate but talking to my peers nobody is!). I have requested all my evaluations with the final stats and I score a little bit below the 50th percentile in some competencies and a little bit above 50th in others.

Finally, to complicate the situation, I am a J1 visa holder and this visa is subject to the 2 year restriction, meaning that if I get terminated or resign, I have to go back IMMEDIATELY to my country (yes, 24hrs) and I am not able to apply to a work visa J1/H1 after 2 years of being terminated which means basically that even if I apply to the match this year, I wouldn't be able to start on July 2019.

At this point, I am in the middle of an appeal process, my question would be if this community believes there could be a possibility of reversal. I am also considering the possibility of transferring to a different program (a smaller program perhaps) but haven't found any open spots available as of today. Finally I talked to my PD about the possibility of extension of training (being as deficient as they are telling me I am, I am willing to extend my internship for 3, 6, 9 months if necessary) however they have told me they don't think that could be a possibility because as educators "they are not sure if the gap is going to ever close". I am going through the appeal process very discouraged, however, I also want to explore the possibility of repeating internship year, how common is that? Maybe people with more experience here are able to give me a word or two.

I apologize for the very long post, I really appreciate the people who take the time to read and post a comment.

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I'm sorry, man. It looks like you have gained some insight into what got you in this situation. That's always good.

Unfortunately, reversal is very unlikely. Do not burn bridges and continue to behave with the utmost professionalism. You are going to need your program to advocate for you if another institution gives you a chance.

Your visa situation makes things even more complicated.

I'm not trying to be rude but have you considered training in your country? It looks like you are facing a two year gap at least before you are even able to apply for a position that you are unlikely to get.

My plan:

1) Try to leave on good terms. Don't insult anyone. Thank them for giving you the opportunity to improve.

2) Ask if they would be willing to support you if you transferred to a non clinical specialty such as pathology or a less intense one such as FM.

3) Go to your home country and start training. Don't expect to get another position here. Don't put your life on hold because of this!

4) Don't let this define you. Use this opportunity to grow. You can still be a great physician.

I sincerely wish you good luck.
 
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What Plutoboy said is the best advice anyone can give. By the looks of it, it seems that appeals is not going to be in your favour because PD does not seem confident in you as well.

#2 is the best advice right now, if your looking to move to another IM program PDs might not write a good LOR. With the upcoming SOAP, you might have a chance to snag a path residency if your end goal was to be a doctor in the states, otherwise going back to home country is the other option. I, however, don't know how Visa issues play in the effect of you having to wait 3-4 months to start residency again.
 
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#2 is the best advice right now, if your looking to move to another IM program PDs might not write a good LOR. With the upcoming SOAP, you might have a chance to snag a path residency if your end goal was to be a doctor in the states, otherwise going back to home country is the other option. I, however, don't know how Visa issues play in the effect of you having to wait 3-4 months to start residency again.

I agree as well. OP states that they have "very good board scores", which will give them a decent chance to interview with Pathology residencies. I think that there is almost no chance to get into another IM program unfortunately.
 
There are three ways to get a decision like this changed. One is to argue that they can't terminate you because of a "technicality" -- i.e. the rules say they must do certain things, and they didn't do all of those things. That seems unlikely here -- they have given you multiple warnings, in writing. And the concerns seem accurate and genuine.

The second is to argue that their evaluations of you are biased and untrue. There is, perhaps, a bit of truth to this at the end -- when you're in a remediation plan like this, you get put under greater scrutiny. This tends to find more problems that might otherwise be missed. A great example is being behind in your blackboard cases. Sure, maybe everyone else is also -- but they were looking more closely at you.

The third is to try to convince them that you've made significant progress, will continue to do so, and get on track. It's a hard argument to make, since you can't prove it, and you still had some problems in your last rotation -- although those problems seem much less concerning than your first rotation. But the program is correct -- they don't know if you'll be able to "close the gap".

You should do anything you can to keep this spot you have, getting a new one will be complicated. If the termination is upheld (which is likely), then finding a new program will involve you convincing them that the training you received at this program has improved your skills to the point that you'll be able to function at an acceptable level, and that perhaps a new program with different characteristics (i.e. smaller program, less hospitals, etc) will allow you to succeed.

You're correct that your J visa terminates immediately. If you complete a program you get a 30 day grace period, if you're fired you don't. However, I believe that you can get another J visa without waiting 2 years. You are barred from getting an H visa, or a GC. You might owe a second 2 year HRR (total 4 years), or you might not -- it's complicated.

In any case, best to sort some of this out while your appeal is processing. If you stay in the US without a visa, you're "out of status". Otherwise known as "illegal immigrant". If caught, it could prevent you from getting any US visa in the future.
 
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Yikes, I'm sorry to hear about your predicament. It sounds like you're in a very tough spot and I can only imagine how difficult being on a sponsored visa makes this. The advice above all seems to be very good.

I think your situation shows that there is only one chance to make a first impression. Your performance on your first block really seemed to set the tone in your residency. For a resident to write such a negative evaluation of an intern is striking. To write that "he/she would never let me take care of any of his/her family" is very strongly worded and suggests that the concerns at that time were very deep. I've never written anything like that about a fellow resident or had that written about me. It sounds like the attending mostly agreed. Remember that CCC committees will also collect collateral information not necessarily written on your evaluations. Once you found yourself under the microscope it is VERY hard to get out from under it. If we all got punished for texting a senior rather than calling, checking facebook (or SDN) during a conference, we'd all get fired. Right or wrong, you are probably seen as the "problem" resident so everything you do is fodder for criticism. It sounds like you took the right course of action and showed insight and contrition, but it wasn't enough to convince your detractors.

I imagine the overall lesson for any IMGs is to ensure that you have adequate clinical experience in the US before starting training. Board scores and research won't be enough to prepare you for our system with our hierarchies, defensive medicine, EMRs, etc.

Good luck.
 
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Thank you so much for sharing with us your story, Dr. Hopes. I'm not sure how much good advice I can offer you, but I wanted to thank you for sharing with us. I know this must be very very hard.

I think you are getting very good advice in this thread so far.

It was very very very considerate of you to share your experience, and the that under these difficult circumstances you thought of how this might help the SDN community and other trainees.

I wish you the very best.
 
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I can't speak to how this all works visas.

I do know this:
Remain professional and cordial with everyone at your program. Don't burn any bridges.

When it seems appropriate, express that you understand why you cannot continue to train here. That you are very sorry for the inconvenience to the program. That you are still very committed to medicine, as a career and a passion, where you can do the most good. Ask if the program has any input or recommendations for what you could do to continue to use your medical education and grow. If there is any input they might have for what specialty or career you might be suited for with your strengths and weaknesses.

The reasons you state for why they are terminating you - don't sound personal or related to poor character. In fact, given what you say is the trouble they took to try to remediate you, there is a chance that this is what it seems - you didn't grow fast enough, they are not sure you can make it in the timeframe that they can accommodate, and money and coverage factor in.

I read something very encouraging from a PD about training once. Their opinion was just about anyone who makes it to a residency can be remediated with enough experience if the issues aren't related to character or professionalism (work ethic, lying, communication issues, personality). Some of it is a question of what field you are in, and how much time you get. Here in the US, unlike some other countries I've read about, the timeframe is pretty rigid.

I know some programs let go residents that they can no longer accommodate training in their program, but that they would otherwise support being a practicing physician, in principle.

Long story short, sometimes a program lets you go but they actually still like you, want to help you, and see you succeed where they think your strengths/weaknesses might be better suited in another field/program.

Depending on your situation, your conduct moving forward, it's possible they might help you, and you won't know if you don't ask.

The key thing is to maintain as much goodwill as you can.

Read some other threads on SDN on this topic. Consider if a resignation would be better for your visa situation, or make you less unattractive to other programs than a termination. Of course, with a resignation there must be a reason, and that is complex as well. Sometimes this makes your program more amenable to helping you elsewhere, if they think that is appropriate.

I am not an attorney. I wonder if an attorney who is familiar with employment law or immigration law, could shed some light. Not to fight this or sue the program or something dramatic, but to help you figure out the best way to part with this program for your visa status.
 
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I can't speak to how this all works visas.

I do know this:
Remain professional and cordial with everyone at your program. Don't burn any bridges.

When it seems appropriate, express that you understand why you cannot continue to train here. That you are very sorry for the inconvenience to the program. That you are still very committed to medicine, as a career and a passion, where you can do the most good. Ask if the program has any input or recommendations for what you could do to continue to use your medical education and grow. If there is any input they might have for what specialty or career you might be suited for with your strengths and weaknesses.

The reasons you state for why they are terminating you - don't sound personal or related to poor character. In fact, given what you say is the trouble they took to try to remediate you, there is a chance that this is what it seems - you didn't grow fast enough, they are not sure you can make it in the timeframe that they can accommodate, and money and coverage factor in.

I read something very encouraging from a PD about training once. Their opinion was just about anyone who makes it to a residency can be remediated with enough experience if the issues aren't related to character or professionalism (work ethic, lying, communication issues, personality). Some of it is a question of what field you are in, and how much time you get. Here in the US, unlike some other countries I've read about, the timeframe is pretty rigid.

I know some programs let go residents that they can no longer accommodate training in their program, but that they would otherwise support being a practicing physician, in principle.

Long story short, sometimes a program lets you go but they actually still like you, want to help you, and see you succeed where they think your strengths/weaknesses might be better suited in another field/program.

Depending on your situation, your conduct moving forward, it's possible they might help you, and you won't know if you don't ask.

The key thing is to maintain as much goodwill as you can.

Read some other threads on SDN on this topic. Consider if a resignation would be better for your visa situation, or make you less unattractive to other programs than a termination. Of course, with a resignation there must be a reason, and that is complex as well. Sometimes this makes your program more amenable to helping you elsewhere, if they think that is appropriate.

I am not an attorney. I wonder if an attorney who is familiar with employment law or immigration law, could shed some light. Not to fight this or sue the program or something dramatic, but to help you figure out the best way to part with this program for your visa status.

I'm not going to lie. An account like this scares me because it sounds like the OP was doing everything he could, but it still wasn't acceptable. I wonder if I should just learn as much as I can prior to the start of residency.

It sounds like waiting to learn what you need to learn is a huge risk.
 
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I'm not going to lie. An account like this scares me because it sounds like the OP was doing everything he could, but it still wasn't acceptable. I wonder if I should just learn as much as I can prior to the start of residency.

It sounds like waiting to learn what you need to learn is a huge risk.

Honestly, I'm not sure how much "studying" can help in situations like this. The OP apparently studied pretty hard and performed well on board exams. But being good on the floors is a different matter and there is no substitute for experience. When residents are showing up super-early, doing reading beyond what their peers are doing (e.g., reading a dedicated EKG book as an intern), etc, it often signals that the resident is struggling and is trying to compensate.

I can identify with the OP; I thought internship was very hard - probably more so than my peers did. I could breeze through it now with the experience I have. I didn't get any smarter, I just gained experience and confidence. For an IMG, who didn't get much experience in a US hospital, I imagine internship can be very difficult.
 
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Nothing OP is saying indicates a lack of “book knowledge” to me. In fact, with good board scores and research, that’s probably OP’s strong suit. From OP’s description it sounds like his or her problems are in workflow efficiency, communication with senior residents and attendings, follow-through on initiated tasks, and miscellaneous stuff I’ll call “ownership” of the patient (placing orders, double checking medication dosing, loading the boat with seniors and attendings for a sick patient who concerns you).

These are all very important skills, but I’m not sure how you can really practice them before you start. Residency is very different from any job you’ve had before.
 
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Reading your post also made me nervous as i'm a fourth year medical student, and while I am an AMG none of what you said sounds atypical for intern year mistakes. While on away electives as a fourth year I've seen much much worse mistakes by interns, so I would say the way your program responded seems shockingly unsupportive. You made attempts to make improvements and from what you said, you have taken the complaints seriously and tried to improve. That being said, it does seem that your program is unlikely to change their decision. I am sad for you, as it seems you have worked really hard to get to this point and are at an unfortunately unsupportive program. It should be on the senior residents to oversee these mistakes and take some responsibility in "training" you as that is what residency is for. However, at this point I agree with the above posts. Your problems seem to be clinical and knowing when to seek help with specific patients. Your strengths seem to be in medical knowledge and research. To try to take this horrible situation and turn it into a positive, I agree with seeking out a specialty that speaks to your strengths- path. Lucky for you it is also one of the least competitive. You mention liking to teach and you could definitely utilize that after being board certified in path.
 
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Reading your post also made me nervous as i'm a fourth year medical student, and while I am an AMG none of what you said sounds atypical for intern year mistakes. While on away electives as a fourth year I've seen much much worse mistakes by interns, so I would say the way your program responded seems shockingly unsupportive. You made attempts to make improvements and from what you said, you have taken the complaints seriously and tried to improve. That being said, it does seem that your program is unlikely to change their decision. I am sad for you, as it seems you have worked really hard to get to this point and are at an unfortunately unsupportive program. It should be on the senior residents to oversee these mistakes and take some responsibility in "training" you as that is what residency is for. However, at this point I agree with the above posts. Your problems seem to be clinical and knowing when to seek help with specific patients. Your strengths seem to be in medical knowledge and research. To try to take this horrible situation and turn it into a positive, I agree with seeking out a specialty that speaks to your strengths- path. Lucky for you it is also one of the least competitive. You mention liking to teach and you could definitely utilize that after being board certified in path.

I hardly think that these issues are typical. And by about a month or two efficiency when it comes to note writing, knowing the system, etc. should be absolutely honed in. I started on a post call day with 9 new medicine patients. There was no mercy. The resident did not check every minute detail or our notes. We were taught how to put in orders, discussed plans in rounds, but we were responsible to follow up tests, put in orders, if something did not get done to make sure it did, etc. While the residents above you have to manage the team and ensure patient safety it is unreasonable to think they can monitor every minute detail - at the end of the day you are a physician as an intern and while you certainly need guidance and help residents cannot hold your hand every waking second. Significant independence by a few months in where an intern is safely expected to assess a patient, come up with a reasonable at least basic plan and be able to put in orders with reasonably quick note writing is expected. I'm sorry but I don't think the program was unsupportive - it seems very specific things to work on were stated and the OP failed to meet those goals. They gave OP numerous chances. I think this is one of the reasons sometimes there is a concern with IMGs coming into a program - while the "book" information or research might be in place, practice is paramount.
 
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I'm not going to lie. An account like this scares me because it sounds like the OP was doing everything he could, but it still wasn't acceptable. I wonder if I should just learn as much as I can prior to the start of residency.

It sounds like waiting to learn what you need to learn is a huge risk.
no its not about trying to "learn" everything you can before residency...if that was possible, then one wouldn't need residency...its about being able use the information and make clinical decisions based on the fund of knowledge you develop.

As someone mentioned earlier, to have such a poor evaluation in the 1st month is concerning...residents and attendings are very well aware that july interns basically know nothing and expect to closely supervise their interns. What you expect of an intern in say in July and later in say May are very different...doing the same things in May that you did in July will get you a vastly different evaluation.

repeating the same errors will show that you are not progressing through the year...the OP seemingly continued to make the same type of error thought the year...basically not knowing when to and how to contact seniors or attendings when pt care was beyond their abilities. And as it has been mentioned, once you are under scrutiny, even small things take on new meaning.

to the OP, have you though about going back to research?
 
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Reading your post also made me nervous as i'm a fourth year medical student, and while I am an AMG none of what you said sounds atypical for intern year mistakes. While on away electives as a fourth year I've seen much much worse mistakes by interns, so I would say the way your program responded seems shockingly unsupportive. You made attempts to make improvements and from what you said, you have taken the complaints seriously and tried to improve. That being said, it does seem that your program is unlikely to change their decision. I am sad for you, as it seems you have worked really hard to get to this point and are at an unfortunately unsupportive program. It should be on the senior residents to oversee these mistakes and take some responsibility in "training" you as that is what residency is for. However, at this point I agree with the above posts. Your problems seem to be clinical and knowing when to seek help with specific patients. Your strengths seem to be in medical knowledge and research. To try to take this horrible situation and turn it into a positive, I agree with seeking out a specialty that speaks to your strengths- path. Lucky for you it is also one of the least competitive. You mention liking to teach and you could definitely utilize that after being board certified in path.
disagree...it sounds that the program gave the OP a number of chances to demonstrate improvement and when push came to shove, the OP was not able to hit the mark of what were given to him as goals for demonstrate improvement...many programs would not have given him 2nd, 3rd, 4th chance to stay in the program.
 
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I hardly think that these issues are typical. And by about a month or two efficiency when it comes to note writing, knowing the system, etc. should be absolutely honed in. I started on a post call day with 9 new medicine patients. There was no mercy. The resident did not check every minute detail or our notes. We were taught how to put in orders, discussed plans in rounds, but we were responsible to follow up tests, put in orders, if something did not get done to make sure it did, etc. While the residents above you have to manage the team and ensure patient safety it is unreasonable to think they can monitor every minute detail - at the end of the day you are a physician as an intern and while you certainly need guidance and help residents cannot hold your hand every waking second. Significant independence by a few months in where an intern is safely expected to assess a patient, come up with a reasonable at least basic plan and be able to put in orders with reasonably quick note writing is expected. I'm sorry but I don't think the program was unsupportive - it seems very specific things to work on were stated and the OP failed to meet those goals. They gave OP numerous chances. I think this is one of the reasons sometimes there is a concern with IMGs coming into a program - while the "book" information or research might be in place, practice is paramount.

remember many of the FMGs coming in have been practicing physicians in their own country for many years...and this is not just issues that come up with I/FMGs...2 interns were not renewed, 1 my year and then the next year...the 1st was a DO and the second an USMD... some people just can't make the jump to clinical medicine.
 
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I hardly think that these issues are typical. And by about a month or two efficiency when it comes to note writing, knowing the system, etc. should be absolutely honed in. I started on a post call day with 9 new medicine patients. There was no mercy. The resident did not check every minute detail or our notes. We were taught how to put in orders, discussed plans in rounds, but we were responsible to follow up tests, put in orders, if something did not get done to make sure it did, etc. While the residents above you have to manage the team and ensure patient safety it is unreasonable to think they can monitor every minute detail - at the end of the day you are a physician as an intern and while you certainly need guidance and help residents cannot hold your hand every waking second. Significant independence by a few months in where an intern is safely expected to assess a patient, come up with a reasonable at least basic plan and be able to put in orders with reasonably quick note writing is expected. I'm sorry but I don't think the program was unsupportive - it seems very specific things to work on were stated and the OP failed to meet those goals. They gave OP numerous chances. I think this is one of the reasons sometimes there is a concern with IMGs coming into a program - while the "book" information or research might be in place, practice is paramount.


I never said the resident should be holding the interns hand and checking all of their notes. That is by far a very different thing. I said none of it was atypical from things I have seen as an intern mistake. Dosing error? pretty common. Its not like he gave 100mg of olanzapine, but looked up the dose before giving, and forgot to dose for geriatrics. Pretty common error, I've even seen attendings forget to dose based on a geriatric population. A patient with hypotension who is otherwise stable and you start a plan for and text your senior to let them know what you're doing as an FYI, doesn't seem like a glaring mistake either. I reiterated the main problem was not seeking help from residents or attendings when it was necessary. OP seems to understand his deficiencies. Which is why others like myself are suggesting a field that requires less clinical judgement.
 
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remember many of the FMGs coming in have been practicing physicians in their own country for many years...and this is not just issues that come up with I/FMGs...2 interns were not renewed, 1 my year and then the next year...the 1st was a DO and the second an USMD... some people just can't make the jump to clinical medicine.


I totally agree with this. Also a lot of programs in IM that seek out IMG residents only, are banking on the fact that most were actually physician in their countries prior to coming to the US. Therefore, they require less training and less direct supervision. basically, cheap labor for the hospitals without having to put any effort into actually training their residents. At least my opinion, from what Ive heard from these residents/attendings. So when the program finds itself with an intern that does not have this experience they are less likely to try to and educate the resident and more likely to fire them.
 
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"reacts appropriately and initiates management in common urgent/emergent situations: not achieved", but some others were new like "complete assigned educational and administrative tasks: not achieved"

Just a word of advice in terms of addressing this issue for the future: You gave us multiple examples of patients being in tenuous situations that need to be dealt with urgently if not emergently (hypoxia, hypoglycemia, hypotension, etc.) in which you took a non-emergent approach and either delayed urgent management by texting someone and waiting for a response, or getting a repeat set of labs (which, unless there's something discordant, it's often safer to treat first then address repeat labs second). Clinical inpatient care often dictates that we deal with patients who are on the brink of turning for the worst, and I get the sense that you are not recognizing the urgencies of these signs and quickly managing them, rather finding ways to delay the inevitable management until you are absolutely sure that you need to do something. One of the steps in overcoming this is being aware that we will never have complete information, and we need to work off of the information we have at any given moment. If one of those situations you described comes up, then, assuming you are not confident in your decision-making, the first thing you should do is call your senior and make sure there is an urgent discussion about next management steps. Texting them is not appropriate, as texts can often be missed and seen later.

I know that this will not help in your current situation, but should you find yourself back in another setting of clinical medicine, recognizing (and taking!) urgent action is paramount when working in the inpatient setting.
 
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Your program sounds insanely malignant.

Who expects a first month intern to manage by themselves?

First month intern should be by default direct supervision. Shouldn't be trusted to order stuff unsupervised or follow stuff on their own. They're just not oriented to the system regardless of how smart a person is.

It takes an intern 6 months minimum to develop basic competence in the work place and be fully oriented to the hospital and work environment.

In my program residents are the ones accountable for patients safety and management. Interns can manage but only after reviewing with the resident.

Sorry man to hear your story.

The clinical judgement and the sense of urgency needs time and 1-2 months of ICU for it to fully develops. This is why RRTs aren't lead by interns.

Good luck finding a career in pathology.
 
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Your program sounds insanely malignant.

Who expects a first month intern to manage by themselves?

First month intern should be by default direct supervision. Shouldn't be trusted to order stuff unsupervised or follow stuff on their own. They're just not oriented to the system regardless of how smart a person is.

It takes an intern 6 months minimum to develop basic competence in the work place and be fully oriented to the hospital and work environment.

In my program residents are the ones accountable for patients safety and management. Interns can manage but only after reviewing with the resident.

Sorry man to hear your story.

The clinical judgement and the sense of urgency needs time and 1-2 months of ICU for it to fully develops. This is why RRTs aren't lead by interns.

Good luck finding a career in pathology.

I would bet anything that OP's program is in New York.

OP has gone rather quiet. I feel for you OP and in part because I will be in a similar position. While all other interns in my year have vast independent practice from back home, I'm green and daresay incompetent, the fear of getting under the microscope is real. I read the advice posted earlier about coming in an hour early and pre rounding but from this thread it seems like that's taken as signs of "struggling." I intend to come in early regardless. The deficiency of translating book knowledge into action is something Medical School doesn't uncover easily (e.g. Eugene from Vandy). This problem is even more pronounced in foreign medical schools where IMGs are largely gauged on grades and passing exams with rote Step 1 memorization for those who plan to seek a future in the States. From his detailed description, I can't help but feel anxiety may have played a role in OP's situation.

Just a word of advice in terms of addressing this issue for the future: You gave us multiple examples of patients being in tenuous situations that need to be dealt with urgently if not emergently (hypoxia, hypoglycemia, hypotension, etc.) in which you took a non-emergent approach and either delayed urgent management by texting someone and waiting for a response, or getting a repeat set of labs (which, unless there's something discordant, it's often safer to treat first then address repeat labs second). Clinical inpatient care often dictates that we deal with patients who are on the brink of turning for the worst, and I get the sense that you are not recognizing the urgencies of these signs and quickly managing them, rather finding ways to delay the inevitable management until you are absolutely sure that you need to do something. One of the steps in overcoming this is being aware that we will never have complete information, and we need to work off of the information we have at any given moment. If one of those situations you described comes up, then, assuming you are not confident in your decision-making, the first thing you should do is call your senior and make sure there is an urgent discussion about next management steps. Texting them is not appropriate, as texts can often be missed and seen later.

I know that this will not help in your current situation, but should you find yourself back in another setting of clinical medicine, recognizing (and taking!) urgent action is paramount when working in the inpatient setting.

Is it better to act first in such emergent situations as you listed? I don't want to be accused of overstepping or "failing to seek help" when put in such a scenario and sadly that's very possible as the program can go either way by accusing you of not doing enough or doing too much on your own. I haven't felt less confident and more anxious than now with July 1 coming up.
 
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I would bet anything that OP's program is in New York.

OP has gone rather quiet. I feel for you OP and in part because I will be in a similar position. While all other interns in my year have vast independent practice from back home, I'm green and daresay incompetent, the fear of getting under the microscope is real. I read the advice posted earlier about coming in an hour early and pre rounding but from this thread it seems like that's taken as signs of "struggling." I intend to come in early regardless. The deficiency of translating book knowledge into action is something Medical School doesn't uncover easily (e.g. Eugene from Vandy). This problem is even more pronounced in foreign medical schools where IMGs are largely gauged on grades and passing exams with rote Step 1 memorization for those who plan to seek a future in the States. From his detailed description, I can't help but feel anxiety may have played a role in OP's situation.



Is it better to act first in such emergent situations as you listed? I don't want to be accused of overstepping or "failing to seek help" when put in such a scenario and sadly that's very possible as the program can go either way by accusing you of not doing enough or doing too much on your own. I haven't felt less confident and more anxious than now with July 1 coming up.

The problem here is not that OP didn’t know how to manage sick patients as a new intern. The problem is that OP’s supervisors - residents, attending - didn’t feel they were contacted quickly enough. It’s entirely possible OP took the correct initial steps to stabilize these patients, but that’s not the point. Interns are often the very first people to be notified when a patient doesn’t look good, and it’s great if they can initiate a workup and treatment, but not expected in July. What is expected is that you immediately notify people above your level - “load the boat” - when you get handed a situation like this.

“Hi, <second year resident>, I just got called that Ms. Sepsis has a blood pressure 80/50. I examined her and she is tachycardic with a lot of abdominal tenderness. I ordered a fluid bolus and an X-ray. Do you think you can see her with me?”

The key here is that this intern called for help right after seeing the patient and recognizing potential badness. Honest, no tricks, that’s all we expect from a new intern.
 
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I would bet anything that OP's program is in New York.

OP has gone rather quiet. I feel for you OP and in part because I will be in a similar position. While all other interns in my year have vast independent practice from back home, I'm green and daresay incompetent, the fear of getting under the microscope is real. I read the advice posted earlier about coming in an hour early and pre rounding but from this thread it seems like that's taken as signs of "struggling." I intend to come in early regardless. The deficiency of translating book knowledge into action is something Medical School doesn't uncover easily (e.g. Eugene from Vandy). This problem is even more pronounced in foreign medical schools where IMGs are largely gauged on grades and passing exams with rote Step 1 memorization for those who plan to seek a future in the States. From his detailed description, I can't help but feel anxiety may have played a role in OP's situation.



Is it better to act first in such emergent situations as you listed? I don't want to be accused of overstepping or "failing to seek help" when put in such a scenario and sadly that's very possible as the program can go either way by accusing you of not doing enough or doing too much on your own. I haven't felt less confident and more anxious than now with July 1 coming up.

don't take advice on how to be a good intern/resident from Eugene.
 
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I would bet anything that OP's program is in New York.

OP has gone rather quiet. I feel for you OP and in part because I will be in a similar position. While all other interns in my year have vast independent practice from back home, I'm green and daresay incompetent, the fear of getting under the microscope is real. I read the advice posted earlier about coming in an hour early and pre rounding but from this thread it seems like that's taken as signs of "struggling." I intend to come in early regardless. The deficiency of translating book knowledge into action is something Medical School doesn't uncover easily (e.g. Eugene from Vandy). This problem is even more pronounced in foreign medical schools where IMGs are largely gauged on grades and passing exams with rote Step 1 memorization for those who plan to seek a future in the States. From his detailed description, I can't help but feel anxiety may have played a role in OP's situation.



Is it better to act first in such emergent situations as you listed? I don't want to be accused of overstepping or "failing to seek help" when put in such a scenario and sadly that's very possible as the program can go either way by accusing you of not doing enough or doing too much on your own. I haven't felt less confident and more anxious than now with July 1 coming up.

Hypoxia and hypotension are usually urgent matters. Act accordingly and let your upper levels know.

These are high priority patients, particularly for an intern:

HR = >110 or <55
SBP <90 or >180
RR >22 or <12
O2 sat <90%
Temp > 38 C/ 100.4 F

If anyone calls you to inform that a patient is short of breath, has chest pain, or is obtunded/unarousable, or meets the above parameters, stop whatever it is you are doing and go see them. Let your upper level know immediately. Their job is to have your back.

Basically if the patient is unstable they need immediate attention.

Don't lie. Do what you say you are going to do. Err on the side of caution and ask for help liberally.

Odds are this won't happen to you. Get that out of your mind. Good luck!
 
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Wanted to drop a couple thoughts here for other soon-to-be interns who are reading this story with dread. OP, I do hope you are able to find a workable path forward. Your attitude is such that I think anyone reading wants to see you succeed. It sounds like you and your program have both acted in good faith and I hope your PD will help you as you look for your next position. The visa issues are not my forte, but I have seen hospitals create temporary positions to help people like you bridge the gap.

Ok so takeaway points for future terns, with credit to countless seniors who said all these things to me:

1) Foolproof algorithm for managing ALL issues as an intern-
A) see the patient (no call room medicine)
B) call your senior
C) do what you’re told

2) nobody cares about your knowledge base. They care about what you can get done. This year is about doing what you’re told, not as much about thinking. The thinking and learning happens, but the crux of your role is executing the plan that’s been given to you.

3) if at any time you feel yourself starting to have an independent thought, call your senior immediately. They will help you through this difficult time.

4) October 1st is a far more dangerous time in the hospital than July 1st. This is when interns start to feel a little more comfortable but shouldn’t be. Keep calling, keep doing what you’re told. Note that this pattern will continue even for your seniors and fellows. There’s nobody more confident than someone 3-6months into their new role. They just haven’t been burned yet. As a tern, you protect yourself and your patients by running things up the chain.

5) always be rounding. Good interns check in on their patients and always have a finger on the pulse of the service. Patients rarely crash suddenly and if you’re always seeing them you’ll often see the signs of impending doom long before nursing pages you about plunging vitals. With EMRs, people don’t rely on you for the numbers as much because we can all see those as they result; they do rely on you to be seeing your patients and examining them frequently, especially anyone with active issues.

6) always call. Don’t rely on a text. We all know the little ding doesn’t always wake you up. Call. Call again. If your senior doesn’t want calls about urgent issues, then that’s a major problem and maybe they need to find a new line of work.

7) try to imagine what you would want to say in front of your whole faculty at M&M if things go bad. Notice what gets said or asked EVERY time: when was the senior notified? When was the attending notified? Do you want to stand in front of a dept and say you saw the unstable patient and texted your senior? The s—t roles downhill, but the blame rolls up. Once major decisions have been run up the chain, nobody will be looking to you to justify the decisions. Sometimes badness happens regardless and we do have to practice defensive medicine. Defensive medicine for an intern involves seeing patients promptly and running all issues up the chain.

Don’t overthink intern year. See, call, do.
 
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3) if at any time you feel yourself starting to have an independent thought, call your senior immediately. They will help you through this difficult time.

"If you experience independent thoughts, please contact your senior immediately. Independent thoughts from an intern can be a sign of a dangerous medical condition. Don't let your independent thinking go untreated."

:laugh:
 
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The OP didn't have a medical knowledge issue. They had a "how to get things done" issue. The few times we've had something like this happen, it all starts the same way -- I get a call from the resident on the team in Block 1 who says that the "intern knows less than the 4th year medical student". Much of what you learn in the clinical years of medicine is not the actual medical decisions that need to be made, but rather how things get done -- how the day is organized, how to be efficient with notes and orders, how to "read the tea leaves" of the service you're on and know what needs to be done without having everything spelled out for you, etc. Often, interns in this situation can improve their skills and get to an early intern level -- but residency is not designed to remediate problems like this, and it takes too long. The good news is that if the intern gets enough skills, they can possibly start in a new program and be at a good enough level to succeed.
 
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"If you experience independent thoughts, please contact your senior immediately. Independent thoughts from an intern can be a sign of a dangerous medical condition. Don't let your independent thinking go untreated."

:laugh:

Almost verbatim what my chief said to us on July 1st of intern year! Wish I could take credit for this one because it's a great line.
 
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The OP didn't have a medical knowledge issue. They had a "how to get things done" issue. The few times we've had something like this happen, it all starts the same way -- I get a call from the resident on the team in Block 1 who says that the "intern knows less than the 4th year medical student". Much of what you learn in the clinical years of medicine is not the actual medical decisions that need to be made, but rather how things get done -- how the day is organized, how to be efficient with notes and orders, how to "read the tea leaves" of the service you're on and know what needs to be done without having everything spelled out for you, etc. Often, interns in this situation can improve their skills and get to an early intern level -- but residency is not designed to remediate problems like this, and it takes too long. The good news is that if the intern gets enough skills, they can possibly start in a new program and be at a good enough level to succeed.
^^
This.
 
OP -

As you move towards squaring things away with this program, I would encourage you to reach out to attendings that you worked with that you think might be supportive of you, that you think you have a good relationship with, and if they might be willing to write you a good LOR for another position.

I suspect if you made it this far and remediated this much, there are a few attendings in your corner. In fact, it's hard for me to see that you could get this much remediation without having had at least 1 or 2.

If the program seems supportive of helping you, you could ask them if they know which of your attendings might speak to your positive qualities as well.

This might not be true everywhere, but provided you had a good attitude, were professional, hardworking, and a good rapport with those you work with, I think most programs don't want to crush any hope you might have for a career if they think there might be somewhere you could succeed.
 
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I agree with others in this thread, that with the attitude you display here, that we wish you the best, and I don't know what the situation is in your home country, but I hope you find a way to continue your career no matter where you end up.
 
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As someone ~4 months from starting internship, I read this and keep having to remind myself to take slow, deep breaths.
 
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As someone ~4 months from starting internship, I read this and keep having to remind myself to take slow, deep breaths.

Odds are you will be fine. Exciting times ahead. Good luck!
 
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As someone ~4 months from starting internship, I read this and keep having to remind myself to take slow, deep breaths.
Do keep in mind that there are like 25 thousand interns every year and maybe 100 of them get fired. That's a success rate of 99.6%.

And I actually bet it's higher as I pulled that 100 number completely out of my ass.
 
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Do keep in mind that there are like 25 thousand interns every year and maybe 100 of them get fired. That's a success rate of 99.6%.

And I actually bet it's higher as I pulled that 100 number completely out of my ass.

And most seem to be FMGs because trouble adjusting to a totally new system and fixing the problem would take way too long. The rare AMG that does get fired is because of either a HUGE fk-up or actual violations like drug abuse.
 
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And most seem to be FMGs because trouble adjusting to a totally new system and fixing the problem would take way too long. The rare AMG that does get fired is because of either a HUGE fk-up or actual violations like drug abuse.

Not as much as you might think.
 
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And most seem to be FMGs because trouble adjusting to a totally new system and fixing the problem would take way too long. The rare AMG that does get fired is because of either a HUGE fk-up or actual violations like drug abuse.
not as rare as you may want to think.
 
The OP didn't have a medical knowledge issue. They had a "how to get things done" issue. The few times we've had something like this happen, it all starts the same way -- I get a call from the resident on the team in Block 1 who says that the "intern knows less than the 4th year medical student". Much of what you learn in the clinical years of medicine is not the actual medical decisions that need to be made, but rather how things get done -- how the day is organized, how to be efficient with notes and orders, how to "read the tea leaves" of the service you're on and know what needs to be done without having everything spelled out for you, etc. Often, interns in this situation can improve their skills and get to an early intern level -- but residency is not designed to remediate problems like this, and it takes too long. The good news is that if the intern gets enough skills, they can possibly start in a new program and be at a good enough level to succeed.
I'd quibble with the one thing in that this comment isn't always a big deal. During residency, I encountered plenty of July interns who might have known less than the 4th year medical student -

The intern is in a new environment and likely coming off of a number of months that weren't particularly relevant and/or intellectually stimulating, while the medical student is in a familiar setting and coming off of a year worth of heavy duty rotations. The intern might have apparently weaker medical knowledge and systems practice at that point, especially if you have a strong gung-ho subi that is aiming for a good letter on the team.

The difference is, that most interns acclimate quite quickly. They realize when they're over their heads, ask for help, learn the systems, and clear the cobwebs out from their medical knowledge (while learning enough to fill in the gaps). By September or October, there's no longer any comparison They learn the soft skills you mention above. The problem with people who get fired (and I've only seen two residents I knew personally get fired), is that they start out at that level... and they don't improve.

I don't expect my brand new interns to be any better than the medical students... or even (if I'm being totally honest) as good as them. I just expect them to try hard.
 
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I started internship last July, before that we underwent a SIM case so the program could get a sense of our medical aptitudes, as a result, some people will be starting their internship under indirect supervision, others (me) were deemed to be placed under direct supervision meaning our resident needs to be shadowing every single move we made.

Interesting concept, never heard of this before.
 
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I'm not going to lie. An account like this scares me because it sounds like the OP was doing everything he could, but it still wasn't acceptable. I wonder if I should just learn as much as I can prior to the start of residency.

It sounds like waiting to learn what you need to learn is a huge risk.
A big key is to build as much good will early on with your program. The phenomenon of increased scrutiny for initial mess-up works the other direction as well.

Learning as much as you can isn't a bad idea - make sure you pay attention during the EMR training and get a hold of all the useful dot phrase stuff you can use in your notes, make sure to learn how to use Dragon, make sure to know how to perform basic H&P, make sure you know what important questions to ask for basic inpatient IM complaints (HF, COPD, pancreatitis, cellulitis, alcohol withdrawal, pneumonia, etc. - you can find a list somewhere).

Also don't be lazy. In my experience nothing will get you fired quicker than being a lazy resident or one who shows up late. People will tolerate someone who is stupid far longer than someone who lazy/unprofessional/tardy who increases the workload of everyone else.
 
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Just a word of advice in terms of addressing this issue for the future: You gave us multiple examples of patients being in tenuous situations that need to be dealt with urgently if not emergently (hypoxia, hypoglycemia, hypotension, etc.) in which you took a non-emergent approach and either delayed urgent management by texting someone and waiting for a response, or getting a repeat set of labs (which, unless there's something discordant, it's often safer to treat first then address repeat labs second). Clinical inpatient care often dictates that we deal with patients who are on the brink of turning for the worst, and I get the sense that you are not recognizing the urgencies of these signs and quickly managing them, rather finding ways to delay the inevitable management until you are absolutely sure that you need to do something. One of the steps in overcoming this is being aware that we will never have complete information, and we need to work off of the information we have at any given moment. If one of those situations you described comes up, then, assuming you are not confident in your decision-making, the first thing you should do is call your senior and make sure there is an urgent discussion about next management steps. Texting them is not appropriate, as texts can often be missed and seen later.

I know that this will not help in your current situation, but should you find yourself back in another setting of clinical medicine, recognizing (and taking!) urgent action is paramount when working in the inpatient setting.
I disagree with the above people saying interns shouldn't make any management decisions.

Interns should make very few decisions by themselves, but in general, you should know that someone with a glucose of 35 needs an amp of D50 without having to text someone about it.
 
No objection to this at all, but I’d still expect a heads up from the intern that this happened. And depending on the time of year I might or might not expect the intern to know how to check and appropriately modify the patient’s insulin regimen, etc. The gut reaction of fixing the immediate problem is good and appropriate but the higher-ups still need to be notified.
 
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Hi everyone, I am a PGY-1 who was recently dismissed from IM program due to academic deficiencies. I am going through a really hard time and I think it's appropriate to share my situation so people with more experience than me can give some more insight and advice. This is going to be a very honest and detailed long post and the narrative it's going to be in chronological order. I know I may be at risk of being identified but I believe this is an open and collaborative community created to help each other and I want to believe people won't gossip or rejoice on the misfortune of others.

I started internship last July, before that we underwent a SIM case so the program could get a sense of our medical aptitudes, as a result, some people will be starting their internship under indirect supervision, others (me) were deemed to be placed under direct supervision meaning our resident needs to be shadowing every single move we made.

First call block I was completely lost in the system, I shortly realized that my previous experiences and background didn't quite prepare me for this (I am an IMG with extensive research background in the US but no further clinical experience in this country, very good board scores) I worked really hard, remember I was arriving very early (~5-5:30am) to read about patients and have everything prepared for rounds. I could sense the stress of my resident for having an intern on direct supervision, I was trying to be efficient but it took me forever to finish my notes on time and keep up with the pace. My resident was not very kind to me, he/she would yell at me in front of others, made me cry and usually pimp on me during rounds in front of the attendings (all of them were very nice and understanding that I was just an intern in his first call block) My resident gave me a terrible evaluation, basically I was scored the minimum in all the core competencies and he/she wrote that he/she would never let me take care of any of his/her family. My attending gave me a pretty average evaluation pointing out the areas for improvement which I carefully read. At the end of the block I was called by my PD to let me know I was placed on remediation, they changed my schedule and made me repeat the rotation. The feedback they got from me was concerning for knowledge fund below average, lack of accountability in the care of patients (forgets to track down results), that I was defensive to feedback (which I don't fully understand, I treated my resident with the uttermost respect and never disobey or ignore him/her, but again, this is my perception, we both come from a different countries and there may have been some cultural differences and maybe even a personality issue) and an issue with professionalism (it was said that I was falling asleep on morning reports after night shifts and that I was using social media during the conference which I remember I did a couple of times because I couldn't help falling asleep!) This time I was determined to make it work. I had a very nice resident that walked me through everything and I could see myself being faster, more efficient and things were improving. My program lifted the remediation with a note that I should continue working on knowing every aspect of my patients and accountability with patient care (it was noted that I was not placing many orders), I got nice evaluations from my attending and even a praising award for teaching and sharing some of my research knowledge in the monthly journal club. Next block, I was on floors again at a different hospital, I had an excellent resident and things were going well, I had a very busy night when I admitted a patient with hyperactive delirium, the case was very challenging and my assessment was complicated by her combative behavior. I identified a glucose value of 65 taken 3 hours before on the ED. I precepted the case with the attending on call who encouraged me to act promptly when I face critical lab values without waiting to check with him. I run to the nurse asking for a repeated value, this time the patient’s glucose was 47 and I immediately put an order for hypoglycemia protocol. After the attending evaluated the patient he told me to order Haldol; my concern at that moment was the lack of an EKG. I remembered some studies shown that olanzapine is safer to use since it has minimal effects on cardiac repolarization compared to Haldol. The attending was receptive to my suggestion and instructed me to order olanzapine. I independently looked up the dose for agitation on UpToDate and read 10 mg. In the middle of a hectic night, I made the mistake of not double checking the dose with the attending and I didn’t read further for geriatric considerations either. I put an order for Olanzapine 10 mg when the attending found out he freaked out and instructed me to see the patient, she was HD stable and arousable but by the end of the night she was obtunded and a rapid was called. I was placed on administrative leave after that and instructed to meet my PD. He basically told me there is a rising concern for me not being able to identify critical values and not reacting promptly, additionally the Olanzapine event triggered the concern for patient safety. The CCC recommended dismissal from the program but I had a chance to meet with them, I basically went and explained that I I was very disappointed at myself, I was feeling profound contrition for what happened to my patient and I outlined an action plan to remediate myself. They gave me another opportunity but placed me on a Letter of Deficiency. My next rotation was going to be ICU but they switched it and made me do floors again. Obviously, I was placed under direct supervision. This block was terrifying for me, I was so nervous and anxious all the time, getting in there very early in the morning, chief residents were instructed to be present in my rounds to check on my presentations and thought process, I was barely sleeping or living, I was exhausted and I was also feeling very depressed since I was not allowed to cross-cover during this block. Long story short, the block ended, I progressed from direct to indirect supervision and was ready to move on to my next block (the one I was looking forward): research. However, I was called again by my PD; this time he pointed out that I didn't make enough progress to satisfy the LOD, there were still some concerns for me not promptly reacting to urgent situations (I was faulted because I texted my resident instead of calling her when I identified a patient with hypotension, I gave her fluids and got nurses involved as I was waiting for a reply from him/her but apparently I should have called, I was also faulted because we had a patient with hypoxemia that was in the low 90s when I saw him but otherwise stable, the attending, my resident and me started rounds on a different patient, when we got to this patient they reprimended me for not speaking out and dragging the team to round on this patient first) so they decided to extend the letter for 2 more rotations. By that time I was exhausted, I did 4 floor blocks in a row and I was going to do 2 more! I brought that up and they told me I could do an elective the first month and then floors again. So I did, I was working really hard during my cardiology elective, got really nice evals from the attendings, the only thing one of the electrophysiologists pointed out was that I needed to learn more EKG (which I totally agree with, EKG is not one of my strengths so I bought a book and everything to keep up with that). Last block: floors at the hospital where I began my intenship, this time I super familiar with the system, some of the nurses remembered me and we had a good relationship, I also had really nice residents and everything was going well, I was dedicated to reading about my patients every day, I was putting a lot of effort on my notes (which I was told they were really good) until my week of nights in which one day I was cross-covering and again, got paged for a patient with hypotension, I went to evaluate the patient, check the blood pressure myself, confirmed that she was 70/50, gave her a small bolus (small because she was an ESRD patient) and ask the nurse to page me back, didn't hear from her at all until I got an overhead page (for some reason the text-page didn't go throug), called her back and she told me BP was the same, I immediately contacted my resident and let him know about the situation, we checked the chart, order some labs and ended up transfusing the patient. Next morning I was paranoid, I checked the chart and saw an attending note that the patient improved with fluids and transfusion and discharge was planned for the following day. I felt relieved but again I was called by one of the chiefs, they were concerned about my management, I was told that I should have had my resident involved as soon as I was paged for a patient with hypotension. They told me I am not my own practice and what if, what if, what if, what if this patient crashed. My rotation ended without any other issues. I was called again to my PDs office to talk and I received a letter of dismissal. I was despondent to hear the news, but deep inside me, I knew this was a real possibility. I am lost, feeling that my career is over. My PD explained that the CCC feels they have given me the opportunity to remediate myself and that "the decision was made in light of the tremendous efforts required to produce minimal improvement". Some of the deficiencies outlined in the letter are repetitive like: "reacts appropriately and initiates management in common urgent/emergent situations: not achieved", but some others were new like "complete assigned educational and administrative tasks: not achieved" this meaning that I am not uptodate with submitting my clinical hours or completing blackboard cases (and it is a fact that I was not uptodate but talking to my peers nobody is!). I have requested all my evaluations with the final stats and I score a little bit below the 50th percentile in some competencies and a little bit above 50th in others.

Finally, to complicate the situation, I am a J1 visa holder and this visa is subject to the 2 year restriction, meaning that if I get terminated or resign, I have to go back IMMEDIATELY to my country (yes, 24hrs) and I am not able to apply to a work visa J1/H1 after 2 years of being terminated which means basically that even if I apply to the match this year, I wouldn't be able to start on July 2019.

At this point, I am in the middle of an appeal process, my question would be if this community believes there could be a possibility of reversal. I am also considering the possibility of transferring to a different program (a smaller program perhaps) but haven't found any open spots available as of today. Finally I talked to my PD about the possibility of extension of training (being as deficient as they are telling me I am, I am willing to extend my internship for 3, 6, 9 months if necessary) however they have told me they don't think that could be a possibility because as educators "they are not sure if the gap is going to ever close". I am going through the appeal process very discouraged, however, I also want to explore the possibility of repeating internship year, how common is that? Maybe people with more experience here are able to give me a word or two.

I apologize for the very long post, I really appreciate the people who take the time to read and post a comment.


I don't really have good advice for you but I want to say good luck and I hope something works out for you. What you're doing isn't easy.

^^ I would also be interested in hearing about the MPH route someone mentioned above.
 
"If you experience independent thoughts, please contact your senior immediately. Independent thoughts from an intern can be a sign of a dangerous medical condition. Don't let your independent thinking go untreated."

:laugh:

How sad. I'm glad I atually did an internship where I was treated like a physician and given the autonomy to manage MY patients, with the expectation I would call for help when necessary.


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How sad. I'm glad I atually did an internship where I was treated like a physician and given the autonomy to manage MY patients, with the expectation I would call for help when necessary.


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Ran every major decision by my senior but I was the one making the decisions as an intern.
 
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Next block, I was on floors again at a different hospital, I had an excellent resident and things were going well, I had a very busy night when I admitted a patient with hyperactive delirium, the case was very challenging and my assessment was complicated by her combative behavior. I identified a glucose value of 65 taken 3 hours before on the ED. I precepted the case with the attending on call who encouraged me to act promptly when I face critical lab values without waiting to check with him. I run to the nurse asking for a repeated value, this time the patient’s glucose was 47 and I immediately put an order for hypoglycemia protocol. After the attending evaluated the patient he told me to order Haldol; my concern at that moment was the lack of an EKG. I remembered some studies shown that olanzapine is safer to use since it has minimal effects on cardiac repolarization compared to Haldol. The attending was receptive to my suggestion and instructed me to order olanzapine. I independently looked up the dose for agitation on UpToDate and read 10 mg. In the middle of a hectic night, I made the mistake of not double checking the dose with the attending and I didn’t read further for geriatric considerations either. I put an order for Olanzapine 10 mg when the attending found out he freaked out and instructed me to see the patient, she was HD stable and arousable but by the end of the night she was obtunded and a rapid was called. I was placed on administrative leave after that and instructed to meet my PD. He basically told me there is a rising concern for me not being able to identify critical values and not reacting promptly, additionally the Olanzapine event triggered the concern for patient safety.

You can get away with doing a lot of things during residency but when the magic words of "patient safety" are invoked you must tread extremely carefully as that's your first step out of the door. The first question really was, where was the resident in all of this? If you had an excellent resident was s/he contacted when you felt the patient was difficult to manage? If, after the dust settles the answer from other people was "Dr. Hopes didn't contact us until after things had gone down" that brings your clinical judgment into question and now it involves a patient safety issue.

For example:

Resident: My intern called me on this combative delirious patient who could not be redirected. She had no EKG because no one could get EKG leads on her even after we treated her hypoglycemia and therefore we avoided giving haldol. So we gave a lower dose of olanzapine first, the patient was still flailing so we gave her some more for a total of 10mg because we were concerned she was going to hurt herself and staff. Subsequently she became obtunded and required a rapid response and transfer to the ICU.
Attending: My team had to address a violent delirious individual who could not be redirected and required chemical restraints and due to her other active medical issues deteriorated and required transfer to the ICU. Both the intern and resident were involved with the case for several hours and despite our best efforts she required enough medication she became obtunded and required transfer to a higher level of care.

Not:
Intern: I looked up olanzapine, saw that the starting dose was 10mg, didn't read any further about potentially giving a lower dose in "when clinical factors warrant" (actual Uptodate phrasing) and gave it because it was a really busy night and I was behind and didn't want to bother my resident.
 
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