I'm an OMS Coordinator-AMA

[OMSCoordinator]

It is with a lot of hesitation that I post this thread, but I've been told it may be helpful to those with questions about applying for OMS residency.

FWIW, I am the coordinator for an OMS residency program. I am the person that reviews all of the applications and then decides who goes on to the Program Director for interview invitations. I don't want to give away too much info, since I know my own residents are hanging around these boards (yeah, guys, I see you, you can't hide from me). But I want to offer what advice or help I can for those facing the daunting task of applying for residency. I know it's a huge hurdle to get over, and most of it seems like a pointless pain in the rear, but we really do need that information to see what makes you more special than the several hundred other applications we receive. My area of expertise is applications, interview selection, and the ranking process.

So, go ahead, ask me anything. I'll do my best to offer advice and help as best I can.

Edited to add: All of these answers are my thoughts and opinions. These thoughts and opinions have been formed by my experiences at my job, but they're all mine.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Bereno]

Thanks again for doing this, it really helps people out! Also, dont feel pressured to answer something that you don't feel comfortable with - this is a public forum after all haha.

My question: Roughly, how many applications are received per interview given? Also, how many interviews are usually given per position ranked?

 

[yappy]

What are the most important or attractive attributes/accomplishments/etc. of an OMS applicant?

Thank you

 

[Bereno]

@yappy - quick to edit your post I see haha.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Edit: This is in reply to Bereno...I forgot to quote your question.
For the program I work for, we offer interviews to about 20% of our applicants, and actually interview closer to 18% (spots fill up, people cancel). I just did the math for this year's numbers, and that's what I came up with. So interview roughly 1 in 5 applicants.

I don't want those numbers to discourage anyone. Not all of the people we match with were number 1 in their class with a 95 NBME (or a 95 NBDE Part I for that matter). Like someone said in another thread, the scores may get you in the door, but your personality and work ethic are what will keep you there. And we don't always get the top person that we ranked in match. Sometimes that person believes they are a better fit with another program. We've gone waaaaay down our rank list in the match, and ended up with some awesome residents.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

What are the most important or attractive attributes/accomplishments/etc. of an OMS applicant?

Thank you

It's hard to put my finger on something specific. Everyone has their own strengths.

In my experience, OMS applicants are a little different that other specialties. You need to have self-confidence, but not be arrogant (that comes after you graduate). If you're not confident in yourself, your patients won't have any confidence in you. But make sure you own up to what you don't know. We can spot you faking it from a mile away.

That can't really be seen on your PASS application, so for that, good evaluations and recommendations from OMS faculty. Having a glowing review from someone in the general practice department is nice, but you need the recs to come from OMS. I've seen applications from someone who obviously decided to specialize in OMS the day before the PASS application was due.

I feel like I don't have a really good answer for that, because our decisions are based on so many factors. But we want to see someone who has worked hard, done well in school, made time to work in clinics or on mission trips, and shows dedication to their specialty.

 

[avangusva]

Thanks again for doing this!

Could you comment on how the match process works? Do programs, perhaps your own even, drop "hints" to applicants that you're interested?

 

[SearedTuna]

How often, and how much of an influence does it have on your rank list when an applicant notifies you after the interview that you are one of their top choices?

What about when a program director/chair calls supporting them again after the interview?

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Thanks again for doing this!

Could you comment on how the match process works? Do programs, perhaps your own even, drop "hints" to applicants that you're interested?

The match process is supposed to be blind on both sides, as in we're not supposed to know who the candidates are putting in what order, and they're not supposed to know where we ranked them. Officially, per the match rules, the program is only allowed to tell someone that they were ranked or not ranked.

I do know that there are programs who flat out tell people where they are ranked, or negotiate with people. My program doesn't do that, and I wish that everyone played by the same rules. When you're going through interviews and the match process, pay attention to the programs that are willing to break these rules. They're probably willing to bend the rules in other areas as well.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

How often, and how much of an influence does it have on your rank list when an applicant notifies you after the interview that you are one of their top choices?

What about when a program director/chair calls supporting them again after the interview?

This goes kind of with my response above.

My program does our rank list very soon after interviews, so it's usually set before anyone can call and tell us that we're their first choice. We usually only change our rank list if something major has happened (usually something bad), so it's not going to have a lot of influence on us. I've never know my program director to call anyone after the interview to encourage them to rank us high. (I'm sure people do, but we never have)

 

[DavesNotHere]

Do you work for a 4yr or 6yr program?

 

[Spaceman Spif]

In your experience, what is the most effective way to get in contact with a program during post match? Fax, email, mail, or call?

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Do you work for a 4yr or 6yr program?

[Redacted]

 

[OMSCoordinator]

In your experience, what is the most effective way to get in contact with a program during post match? Fax, email, mail, or call?

Email!

I'm not always in my office, so I miss phone calls all the time. And our fax machine is for everyone in the office, so it's easy for a paper to get lost in the mix. But I can access my work email from anywhere, and then I also have a written record of our correspondence. It helps to be able to go back and reference our previous conversations if I need to.

You can still send a traditional thank you note through the mail the the faculty and program director (because I know university career centers will tell you to do that), and they will read it, then they'll hand it to me to put in your file. In all of the years I have been doing this, I have gotten exactly 2 thank you notes mailed to me after interviews. And I very much appreciated them.

Edited to add: I originally read that as post-interview and you said post-match. After match day, pretty much all of our interaction will be through email. I send an email to our matched applicants as soon as I am allowed to (I think it's still noon central time) and then send out a big packet of paperwork. However, I prefer to do everything over email because the USPS and our mail room tend to lose things)

 

[AZ12345]

How much do you value research experience? Especially factoring in those with publications and first author publications?

Or do you think this is more variable among school


ps...thank you so much! We all really appreciate you doing this for us.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

How much do you value research experience? Especially factoring in those with publications and first author publications?

Or do you think this is more variable among school


ps...thank you so much! We all really appreciate you doing this for us.

I think it's variable by school. And it depends on what you want to do. If you want to go into academics, then it's good to already have research experience. The faculty at my school are pretty split. Some looooooove research, some don't really care either way. If you've done research in an area that a faculty member is an expert on, they're going to grill you on that, and give you some bonus points if you do well.

I think doing research can only help you. But I don't think anyone is going to throw out your application because you haven't done research. You just may not impress as much as someone who has. And our residency program requires research, so it's good to just get used to it in dental school.

PS. You're welcome! I think I missed my calling as an OMS applicant consultant.

 

[amalu6969]

how does your school view apps from schools that don't rank? Do people from schools like Harvard or Columbia have any advantage over other schools?

 

[OMSCoordinator]

how does your school view apps from schools that don't rank? Do people from schools like Harvard or Columbia have any advantage over other schools?

Schools that don't rank make the application process more difficult for specialty programs. It's like there is a piece of the puzzle missing.

P/F schools:
Advantages: You just have to pass. You can slack off with studying for exams and concentrate on the NBME, unlike schools that rank where those students are still fighting for positioning.

Disadvantages: We have no way of knowing where you stand in your dental class. You could be barely passing your dental classes, but make a good score on the NBME. We don't know, so it's more difficult to make a decision about your application.

I wouldn't say that applicants from Harvard and Columbia necessarily have an advantage over other schools. There are a lot of good dental schools. In my opinion, applicants from established, respected dental schools have an advantage over newer dental schools because we know what kind of graduate they are producing.

 

[meillard]

...

 

[OMSCoordinator]

It depends on the medical school. Undergrad GPA will definitely be taking into account, but you can lessen its impact with strengths in other areas.

I know that many schools also take where you went to undergrad into account. A 3.7 from an Ivy League school will look better than a 3.7 from a small, regional school that no one has ever heard of. And I don't think a 3.7 is all that bad.

 

[480640]

OMSCoordinator thank you for providing all this information.

Since you said that Undergrad GPA will definitely be taken into account, I was wondering if DAT also played a role on admissions. And if it does, if it compensates at least slightly for a subpar Undergrad GPA from a non-elite university.

 

[DaleDoback]

I know most of the applicants and future applicants are really digging this (and I do believe that he/she can provide some great information for applicants), but I have some concerns if a residency coordinator "reviews all of the applications and then decides who goes on to the Program Director for interview invitations". I'd like to think that faculty are involved in the initial selection process for interview invites.

Just not how it's done at my place. Hope we aren't the only ones.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

OMSCoordinator thank you for providing all this information.

Since you said that Undergrad GPA will definitely be taken into account, I was wondering if DAT also played a role on admissions. And if it does, if it compensates at least slightly for a subpar Undergrad GPA from a non-elite university.

My program doesn't look at DAT score. But I'm not sure about others.

And it's not always about how "elite" a university is. More about its academic reputation and past experience with graduates.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Appreciate your feedback, @OMSCoordinator !

Class Rank: we know it's metric #1 or #2 in terms of importance but what about applicants whose rank is not 'up there'? What can help overcome lower rank (i.e. lower-half, bottom-third, etc) to be extended an interview?

Really strong recs from respected OMS practitioners/faculty. There have been applications we (myself or faculty/program director) passed over, but revisited after getting a call/email from someone telling us we needed to consider someone despite poor grades. We understand that grades don't tell your whole story. But it's up to you to form those relationships and make those good impressions.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

I know most of the applicants and future applicants are really digging this (and I do believe that he/she can provide some great information for applicants), but I have some concerns if a residency coordinator "reviews all of the applications and then decides who goes on to the Program Director for interview invitations". I'd like to think that faculty are involved in the initial selection process for interview invites.

Just not how it's done at my place. Hope we aren't the only ones.

My job is to weed out the applications that are just not qualified. If I even slightly think that someone is a good candidate, they make it past me. And sometimes I fight for applicants that may not have the high scores/GPA, but have impressed me in other ways. I've been doing this long enough to know my program director well, and I know what he/she is looking for. Unless you do not meet the qualifications listed for our program in the PASS, I am not the final stop for your application. Rest easy! The important people see your applications!

Edited to add: I didn't word my initial statement well. I do read every.single.application. There is no way the program director has time for that. Then I send on the qualified ones, and the program director decides who gets an interview invitation. I don't decide who gets an interview. On rare occasions, I can talk the program director into inviting someone they originally passed over, but I've never once talked them out of interviewing someone.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed doing this. If you have a question that you are not comfortable asking in a public forum, send me a private message.

I also want you to know that you may just feel like a number when you're sending in these applications, but I know that when I am reading every application, it is the culmination of a lifetime of dreams and hard work condensed onto paper. I value you, and I value your story. Thank you for all of the work you have put into your education.

 

[DaleDoback]

My job is to weed out the applications that are just not qualified. If I even slightly think that someone is a good candidate, they make it past me. And sometimes I fight for applicants that may not have the high scores/GPA, but have impressed me in other ways. I've been doing this long enough to know my program director well, and I know what he/she is looking for. Unless you do not meet the qualifications listed for our program in the PASS, I am not the final stop for your application. Rest easy! The important people see your applications!

Thanks but, as a chief resident now, I can rest easy in 5 months.

Our coordinator only stops applications that don't meet requirements listed on PASS. Our faculty and residents have complete control at that point. Not saying it's wrong, just saying that there's no reason to even attempt to impress our coordinator because she has no input in any decision making process. I feel like every qualified applicant (qualified based on our PASS requirements) deserves to have their application reviewed by a faculty or resident....and they do. They at least deserve that for the cost of applying to our program. Just my thoughts.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Thanks but, as a chief resident now, I can rest easy in 5 months.

Our coordinator only stops applications that don't meet requirements listed on PASS. Our faculty and residents have complete control at that point. Not saying it's wrong, just saying that there's no reason to even attempt to impress our coordinator because she has no input in any decision making process. I feel like every qualified applicant (qualified based on our PASS requirements) deserves to have their application reviewed by a faculty or resident....and they do. They at least deserve that for the cost of applying to our program. Just my thoughts.

Our residents don't review applications. Just now how it's ever been done for us. They are involved in the interview process, though.

Congrats on almost being finished!

Edited to add: I just got to thinking how much easier my job would be if the residents reviewed applications. I love this.

 

[dsw4555]

Thanks for doing this by the way..

I've heard rumors about cutoff points for NBME scores as well as comparisions of NBME scores to old dental boards and such. What does you program see as a goal NBME score? do you look at scores in the 50's? is it true that you feel applicants scores on this test have been going up over the past few years?

 

[OMSCoordinator]

A few years ago, AAOMS put out the information that a 65 on the NBME was about the equivalent of a 90 on the Part 1. The problem with that was that the sample size was very very small, and it was residents who had already completed 1 year of residency. Some programs have really stuck with that 65 cutoff, some are more flexible.

In the last year, I have noticed a pretty significant trend up in NBME scores. Whereas the first year people submitted the scores the averages were closer to 60, this year they were 65+.

Each program is going to have a different cutoff for the scores. We don't necessarily discount someone who has a low score, but they're going to be exceptional in other areas to make up for it. Some won't even look at applications with a score below 65. When you extern to a program that you're really interested in, get to know what they are looking for.

 

[dbgt]

What about age, do you consider applicants of all ages equally? or do you have a preference for a specific age group? (interested in 4 yr residency)

 

[KnucklePuck]

Thanks for all the insight! I was wondering if when a program explicitly states on their website that they have 2-4 week externships available, does it look bad to ask for just one week? And should you include a reason for why you are asking for an exception? Thanks again!

 

[OMSCoordinator]

What about age, do you consider applicants of all ages equally? or do you have a preference for a specific age group? (interested in 4 yr residency)

Unless there are extreme circumstances, we consider applicants of all ages equally. For any applicant of any age, if time has been taken away from school or training, there needs to be an explanation.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Thanks for all the insight! I was wondering if when a program explicitly states on their website that they have 2-4 week externships available, does it look bad to ask for just one week? And should you include a reason for why you are asking for an exception? Thanks again!

I don't handle externships for our program, but I would think that if you are looking to do something outside their norm, you need to have a good reason.

 

[MarcusGunnerPERRLA]

When you're going through interviews and the match process, pay attention to the programs that are willing to break these rules. They're probably willing to bend the rules in other areas as well.

This is so true. If you don’t mind I ask…are programs breaking rules by asking some of the questions below. I’ve been told they are illegal to ask on interviews.

1. How many programs did you apply to?
2. Which programs did you apply to or which programs are you interviewing?
3. Are you single?
4. Do you plan to get pregnant during residency?
5. What do your parents do? (I have no idea how this question plays a role in determining the qualification of a candidate but for some reason it’s important at some programs. Apparently, having a father who is a surgeon is a plus)

Also, what are your thoughts on the “80 hour” rule established by the Graduate Medical Education? This was implemented to improve the quality of patient care, minimize errors, minimize morbidity/mortality, and also the least important reason; to improve the resident’s quality of life. But it seems as though OMS programs have an opposite view on this concept since none of them follow this rule. OMS residents today typically work 100+ hours a week. From speaking with oral surgeons/residents, their definition of what equates to a great surgeon is volume and long hours in the hospital. Thus, this would translate to patient care and residents’ quality of life to become of low priority.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

This is so true. If you don’t mind I ask…are programs breaking rules by asking some of the questions below. I’ve been told they are illegal to ask on interviews.

1. How many programs did you apply to?
2. Which programs did you apply to or which programs are you interviewing?
3. Are you single?
4. Do you plan to get pregnant during residency?
5. What do your parents do? (I have no idea how this question plays a role in determining the qualification of a candidate but for some reason it’s important at some programs. Apparently, having a father who is a surgeon is a plus)

Also, what are your thoughts on the “80 hour” rule established by the Graduate Medical Education? This was implemented to improve the quality of patient care, minimize errors, minimize morbidity/mortality, and also the least important reason; to improve the resident’s quality of life. But it seems as though OMS programs have an opposite view on this concept since none of them follow this rule. OMS residents today typically work 100+ hours a week. From speaking with oral surgeons/residents, their definition of what equates to a great surgeon is volume and long hours in the hospital. Thus, this would translate to patient care and residents’ quality of life to become of low priority.

I will have to go check the MATCH rules for some of those questions. Since I'm not in the interview rooms, I have no idea what gets asked. Remember, potential employers can't ask about your marital status or children, but if YOU bring it up (EX: My wife/husband and I...) then they can ask. A lot of that information about you was in your applications. Many applicants write about their parents or spouses/children in their essays, so the programs already have that info.

As for the 80 hour rule--I'll get back to you!

 

[joh02034]

.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Thank you very much for everything.. Does going to private practice for 1-3 years affect the application ? maintaining research activity.. how does being an international student affect the application ?

I think that if you've stayed active in research, then that is looked at positively. Sometimes a few years in private practice is a really good thing (some people need a break after so many years of school, some need to make some money to pay down debt, some need to take care of family for a while, some just need to mature a little). As long as you address it and stay active in research, you should be good.

Each program is going to have a different view on international students. Check with the ones that you are most interested in.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Sorry for any short or delayed replies. It's MATCH day and it's really busy!

 

[LogOff]

It's looking pretty likely that I'll be serving in the military for a few years before applying to OMFS, just the way the timelines work out is better for my family.

How is military service viewed, would could I be doing to improve my match changes after I separate?

 

[OMSCoordinator]

It's looking pretty likely that I'll be serving in the military for a few years before applying to OMFS, just the way the timelines work out is better for my family.

How is military service viewed, would could I be doing to improve my match changes after I separate?

Can't speak for all programs, but ours highly values military service.

 

[dentcan15]

Thank you for all the great info
I was wondering how having a DMD education from one of the good Canadian schools (Mc Gill or Toronto) affect one's chances?

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Thank you for all the great info
I was wondering how having a DMD education from one of the good Canadian schools (Mc Gill or Toronto) affect one's chances?

If they're strong dental schools, and you have a strong app in other areas (grades, scores, recs) then I'm sure it helps to go there.

I've had residents from both. All good residents.

 

[Internationall]

Thanks for all your information!

Do you accept any international student? If so, is stipend provided as well? If not, do you know other programs' policies on international students? Thanks!

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Thanks for all your information!

Do you accept any international student? If so, is stipend provided as well? If not, do you know other programs' policies on international students? Thanks!

The program I work for does accept international students as long as they graduated from an accredited US or Canadian dental school. Programs will vary because sometimes visa issues get very complicated. Make sure to contact the programs you are really interested in and find out their policy before you apply and/or interview.

 

[Internationall]

Thank you for the response! Do you offer stipend to international students as well? What kind of visa will they get? Thanks again in advance!

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Thank you for the response! Do you offer stipend to international students as well? What kind of visa will they get? Thanks again in advance!

I believe the university does offer to sponsor the visa. Some 6-year programs may not be willing to do that, because it is much more difficult with the cross-over between dental and medical education. And we offer the same stipends for all residents by level, there are just restrictions on who we can fund with different salary lines based on citizenship sometimes.

 

[CremeBrulee5000]

Thanks for the info OMSCoordinator,
I am somewhat new to this and anyone please feel free to answer.
Once you submit an application through PASS, can you submit your NBME scores after you submit your application? Meaning, has the August exam always been your 'last' chance NBME exam for the current year's cycle?
Thanks.

 

[yuggernaut030]

Since match day is in January, and the NBME is offered in August and February, I would assume that the August is the last chance.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

Thanks for the info OMSCoordinator,
I am somewhat new to this and anyone please feel free to answer.
Once you submit an application through PASS, can you submit your NBME scores after you submit your application? Meaning, has the August exam always been your 'last' chance NBME exam for the current year's cycle?
Thanks.

Check with the individual program, but in my experience, you can send in your NBME score later. This year was the first time people had uploaded their scores into the PASS, and before that we always received them by mail and email separate from the PASS application.

But get the score to the program as soon as possible! Some programs start looking at apps early and you wouldn't want to be overlooked because your score is missing.