I'm a 5th year Melbourne University Medical Student, ask me anything!

[Raigon]

My current situation is that I just want to get into medical school. In Taiwan, you're not eligible for medical school if you don't complete your education there. Which leaves me to the United States, which many schools deny you eligibility if you didn't complete formal undergraduate work there. But if I don't apply now, I would regret it, not because I don't have the aptitude to become a doctor, but because I'm denied eligibility due to my education background. That's kind of like saying you're not allowed medical school because you're black. And I do want to become a doctor. Some people who apply and graduate from medical school don't even want to be a doctor, but are forced to by either parents or elsewise. Some people get in just because their scores are high enough. But what about the people who do want to become a doctor? People who are denied medical education because their dad had his job relocated to Taiwan during high school.

Sorry - no offense intended to anyone. I just wanted to get that out of my system.

So here's the plan - I apply to post-bacc and Australia medical school simultaneously, but if i get accepted to an Australian Medical school, then I go for the medical school than the post-bacc. Australia has amazing medical schools that are strongly acknowledged worldwide. That's why I choose Australia after the United States, because they can accept the MCAT. I don't want to take another test. I'm tired, from applying to Taiwan's medical school and shot down because I didn't complete my education there. I'm tired of taking test after test just to know I'm not eligible. I just want a route to become a doctor and go after the dream I've wanted since childhood.

And that's why Australia is fine for me. Because Australia holds true to the regard that as long as you have the dream, whether you complete your degree here or overseas, you are considered for admission. And to tell you the truth, if I'm shot down once in the United States for medical school, if I have to choose between Australia and post-bacc, I'd go for Australia if they admit me. And if Australia shoots me down THEN I'll return to the United States to go to my next plan.

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[JanikeyDoc]

Your more likely to get into an Australian medical school than one in the US. Many US medical schools do not take international students, and it usually the very big names that do, but they make it very hard if you did not complete your undergraduate degree in North America. If Taiwan readily accepts an Australian medical degree maybe that is a better option, not to mention Australia is a lot closer to Taiwan than the US.

 

[Raigon]

I'm not returning to Taiwan after I graduate next year. Never. I have a bad history associated with Taiwan. Most likely I'll return to the United States if I graduate from Australia.

Um... I'm not an international student. I'm a US citizen with a foreign degree. Which makes me a very unique applicant. Let's just hope National Taiwan University, ranked 1st in Taiwan, and 4th in Asia, works for them. If not, Australia, here I come.

 

[Transition]

My current situation is that I just want to get into medical school. In Taiwan, you're not eligible for medical school if you don't complete your education there. Which leaves me to the United States, which many schools deny you eligibility if you didn't complete formal undergraduate work there. But if I don't apply now, I would regret it, not because I don't have the aptitude to become a doctor, but because I'm denied eligibility due to my education background. That's kind of like saying you're not allowed medical school because you're black. And I do want to become a doctor. Some people who apply and graduate from medical school don't even want to be a doctor, but are forced to by either parents or elsewise. Some people get in just because their scores are high enough. But what about the people who do want to become a doctor? People who are denied medical education because their dad had his job relocated to Taiwan during high school.

Sorry - no offense intended to anyone. I just wanted to get that out of my system.

So here's the plan - I apply to post-bacc and Australia medical school simultaneously, but if i get accepted to an Australian Medical school, then I go for the medical school than the post-bacc. Australia has amazing medical schools that are strongly acknowledged worldwide. That's why I choose Australia after the United States, because they can accept the MCAT. I don't want to take another test. I'm tired, from applying to Taiwan's medical school and shot down because I didn't complete my education there. I'm tired of taking test after test just to know I'm not eligible. I just want a route to become a doctor and go after the dream I've wanted since childhood.

And that's why Australia is fine for me. Because Australia holds true to the regard that as long as you have the dream, whether you complete your degree here or overseas, you are considered for admission. And to tell you the truth, if I'm shot down once in the United States for medical school, if I have to choose between Australia and post-bacc, I'd go for Australia if they admit me. And if Australia shoots me down THEN I'll return to the United States to go to my next plan.

The reason they don't accept foreign degrees is because it's difficult to qualify foreign grades with domestic ones. Since there is an abundance of applications already, there's little reason for them to look at internationals. This is more or less how medical education works across the world. Australia is the exception in this regard (and Israel/Ireland/some UK schools) because internationals provide key sources of funding.

I think you have a lot of research left to do. Firstly, no particular program in Aus is better than another (speaking to your belief that UMelb is the best). Granting an MD instead of an MBBS (despite their being the same other than in name) is for marketing. Second, if your plan is to go back to the US (and you want to leave all your doors open), then you should be only looking at USyd, UQ or Flinders as those 3 are the ones with licensure in all US states. Also realize that things are getting tougher for IMGs to migrate to the US (there's a thread quoting NRMP data speaking to this a few links under this current thread). I'm not saying it's impossible, it's certainly do-able, but realize that it's not a walk in the park or as easy as it has been in the past. This is especially true with regards to staying in Australia also. Thus, be sure to take advice that people give here based on past experience with a grain of salt. It's not likely it will be indicative of our own futures. Third, how to apply - I have written up a post on this in the blog linked in my signature, along with relevant details for each of the schools accepting internationals (post is entitled 'Australian Medical Schools'). As for chances of returning, read 'Medical Student Tsunami' and 'Pathways Towards Licensure'.

As for applying to the UK, I know that you can apply to something called the 'Atlantic Bridge Program' (google is your friend). That should get you started on that path.

Good luck!

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

The reason they don't accept foreign degrees is because it's difficult to qualify foreign grades with domestic ones. Since there is an abundance of applications already, there's little reason for them to look at internationals. This is more or less how medical education works across the world. Australia is the exception in this regard (and Israel/Ireland/some UK schools) because internationals provide key sources of funding.

I think you have a lot of research left to do. Firstly, no particular program in Aus is better than another (speaking to your belief that UMelb is the best). Granting an MD instead of an MBBS (despite their being the same other than in name) is for marketing. Second, if your plan is to go back to the US (and you want to leave all your doors open), then you should be only looking at USyd, UQ or Flinders as those 3 are the ones with licensure in all US states. Also realize that things are getting tougher for IMGs to migrate to the US (there's a thread quoting NRMP data speaking to this a few links under this current thread). I'm not saying it's impossible, it's certainly do-able, but realize that it's not a walk in the park or as easy as it has been in the past. This is especially true with regards to staying in Australia also. Thus, be sure to take advice that people give here based on past experience with a grain of salt. It's not likely it will be indicative of our own futures. Third, how to apply - I have written up a post on this in the blog linked in my signature, along with relevant details for each of the schools accepting internationals (post is entitled 'Australian Medical Schools'). As for chances of returning, read 'Medical Student Tsunami' and 'Pathways Towards Licensure'.

As for applying to the UK, I know that you can apply to something called the 'Atlantic Bridge Program' (google is your friend). That should get you started on that path.

Good luck!

no Aussie med school technically has "licensure" in the states.

To the op.. Why not just stay in Aus when you finish.. Why go to the states? Do you have family there?

 

[Transition]

no Aussie med school technically has "licensure" in the states.

To the op.. Why not just stay in Aus when you finish.. Why go to the states? Do you have family there?

Sorry, should have made myself clearer. I am talking about being able to do residency/practice there. California and (I forget which) other states have rather strict rules about needing to be graduating students for a minimum of 5 (this is from memory, so don't take it as definite) years before the school is allowed to apply for qualification. I don't know the actual name for this certification, so I lazily said licensure.

I'm sure it's google-able. I'm just too lazy to find it.

I vaguely remember redshift posting a link to it once...

 

[Raigon]

no Aussie med school technically has "licensure" in the states.

To the op.. Why not just stay in Aus when you finish.. Why go to the states? Do you have family there?

Well I was born, raised, and lived there for the majority of my life and it's the only citizenship I have aside from Taiwan, and I never plan to go back to Taiwan ever again. It's my home. And yes I have family there - all of my mother's relatives. My dad's relatives are in Taiwan, and they are actually pretty mean to me, and also demoralizing, but not even they are the biggest reasons. My mother's side on the other hand is very nice. I love the nice houses America has, the people are friendly (for the most part), and the diverse culture.

Now, I know people may say there's some discrimination against Asians... but I know that's not true, either that or not as harsh as the discrimination against students who are Chinese by blood, but being raised outside the United States, you are basically discriminated against in Taiwan (contrary to some belief that they are worshipped like Gods). AKA Ex: Go back to America, you don't belong here. America is a tad bit better. Not a whole lot when it comes to competition, but good enough for me to accept.

I have two things I want to do most right now after I graduate from NTU, go to medical school and find some way to get back to the United States so I can support myself and buy a home, work as a doctor for 40 years, and then die.

But first, medical school. Sydney and Queensland are my top choices, after Melbourne. But if it's really as you guys above say that Sydney, Queensland, and Flint are the only ones that US accept, then fine. I'll apply there.

Extra thanks to Transition for providing me with all that info. I'll be sure to check it out.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Well I was born, raised, and lived there for the majority of my life and it's the only citizenship I have aside from Taiwan, and I never plan to go back to Taiwan ever again. It's my home. And yes I have family there - all of my mother's relatives. My dad's relatives are in Taiwan, and they are actually pretty mean to me, and also demoralizing, but not even they are the biggest reasons. My mother's side on the other hand is very nice. I love the nice houses America has, the people are friendly (for the most part), and the diverse culture.

Now, I know people may say there's some discrimination against Asians... but I know that's not true, either that or not as harsh as the discrimination against students who are Chinese by blood, but being raised outside the United States, you are basically discriminated against in Taiwan (contrary to some belief that they are worshipped like Gods). AKA Ex: Go back to America, you don't belong here. America is a tad bit better. Not a whole lot when it comes to competition, but good enough for me to accept.

I have two things I want to do most right now after I graduate from NTU, go to medical school and find some way to get back to the United States so I can support myself and buy a home, work as a doctor for 40 years, and then die.

But first, medical school. Sydney and Queensland are my top choices, after Melbourne. But if it's really as you guys above say that Sydney, Queensland, and Flint are the only ones that US accept, then fine. I'll apply there.

Extra thanks to Transition for providing me with all that info. I'll be sure to check it out.

As far as I'm aware all you need to be able to sit usmle and apply for US postgrad training (and get a US license).... is simply to have graduated from a medical school listed in the WHO/IMED database... All Australian medical schools satisfy that requirement. .... So I don't really think it matters which med school you get into. I'd say go to the school you feel most comfortable with that has the cheapest tuition.

 

[Raigon]

As far as I'm aware all you need to be able to sit usmle and apply for US postgrad training (and get a US license).... is simply to have graduated from a medical school listed in the WHO/IMED database... All Australian medical schools satisfy that requirement. .... So I don't really think it matters which med school you get into. I'd say go to the school you feel most comfortable with that has the cheapest tuition.

And that's what I'm thinkining about right now: Two things - admission into ANY medical school and practicing medicine in the United States

1. Getting accepted into an Australian Medical school with an MCAT score of 30Q. Do they look at your latest score or the higest score? Because I got sick the 2nd time I took the test for a few weeks, took the test and fell down to a 27R.

2. And... there's the fact that you or the other poster above said that America is accepting less and less International Medical Graduates (I assume that's what IMG stands for). Ugh... So Sydney, Queensland and Flints are the best choices I have.

 

[jaketheory]

And that's what I'm thinkining about right now: Two things - admission into ANY medical school and practicing medicine in the United States

1. Getting accepted into an Australian Medical school with an MCAT score of 30Q. Do they look at your latest score or the higest score? Because I got sick the 2nd time I took the test for a few weeks, took the test and fell down to a 27R.

2. And... there's the fact that you or the other poster above said that America is accepting less and less International Medical Graduates (I assume that's what IMG stands for). Ugh... So Sydney, Queensland and Flints are the best choices I have.

US schools will look at all your scores.

keep in mind that usmle, US residency, license is the path but having your school on the WHO or that other list is not sufficient to satisfy state medical boards you are eligible for a license. those lists are not accrediting bodies and state medical boards realize this. CA has a list of approved schools and other states use the CA list (eg. IN). not only does your school have to be on their list but you also have to satisfy their clinical rotation rquirements which are not necessarily met by your med schools curriculum. other states have other requirements. i believe the other 2 stricter states for which IMG's prospectively eligiblity are NY and FL.

if you dont care where in the US you live then this doesnt matter, but if you wantto keep options open regarding what state you will be able to work in this may be something to consider. the 3 aussie schools that distribute us federal loans are all on the CA list so youd just have to ensure you meet the rotation requiements.

 

[Raigon]

US schools will look at all your scores.

And medical schools from Australia?

keep in mind that usmle, US residency, license is the path but having your school on the WHO or that other list is not sufficient to satisfy state medical boards you are eligible for a license. those lists are not accrediting bodies and state medical boards realize this. CA has a list of approved schools and other states use the CA list (eg. IN). not only does your school have to be on their list but you also have to satisfy their clinical rotation rquirements which are not necessarily met by your med schools curriculum. other states have other requirements. i believe the other 2 stricter states for which IMG's prospectively eligiblity are NY and FL.

So... are the three schools: Flinders, University of Queenslands, and Sydney approved by all 50 states?

if you dont care where in the US you live then this doesnt matter, but if you wantto keep options open regarding what state you will be able to work in this may be something to consider. the 3 aussie schools that distribute us federal loans are all on the CA list so youd just have to ensure you meet the rotation requiements.

Hell yes I need the federal loans. I'm not going to be able to pay for the tuition fee and living expenses. If I apply for permanent residence, however, I'm not going to be an international applicant. But if I'm an international applicant, even if I apply for permenant residence during my academic years, I will still have to pay full tuition fees. Guh...

Sorry for sounding stupid... because I didn't study pre-med in the United States, but what's the difference between clinical rotations and residency?

 

[freshclay]

Hi Raigon,

I'm a US citizen who just finished the now "old" UniMelb course and am working as an intern in Melbourne.

I believe Melbourne only looks at your top MCAT score, but you should e-mail them to make sure: [email protected] Things may have changed since the time I started and with the new course.

Money-wise, it's a very good idea to plan it all out before you start. I had several classmates, both local and international, who took a year off mainly because they didn't have the finances to keep going. The Aussie dollar is quite strong against the US now too, making it even more expensive. So get a firm idea of all your finances before you commence. The last thing you want is to almost finish school and then have to stop because you're out of funds.

Clinical rotations describes the time you spend at hospital while you are a medical student while internship (first year post-grad) and residency (after internship before you start a specialty training program) is your role as a junior doctor.

All the uncertainty now is a bit stressful for you probably, but you'll do great wherever you go. It looks like you've received some great advice from the other members but feel free to ask me more. I can't tell you much about the new Melbourne course as I didn't go through it, but I can share my experiences on what it's like living in Melbourne as an international student and going through hospitals here if you'd like.

 

[jaketheory]

And medical schools from Australia?

aus schools will only look at your highest score.

So... are the three schools: Flinders, University of Queenslands, and Sydney approved by all 50 states?

the majority of states do not have lists of foreign medical schools which they graduates of to be eligible for licensure. there are thousands of med schools in the world! Cali has one and i know at least Indiana uses Cali's list. it is likely that some other states have their own list and some others use Cali's but most states will be satisfied with a grad with a degree from a WHO listed school that is also egcfm certified, which all IMG's must be anyway to practice anywhere in the US. some schools may also assess your transcript to ensure you have completed a certain number of weeks in specific rotations. Cali does this, so just having a degree from a Cali approved school doesnt put you in the all clear as the curriculum for some of the school's on their approved list don't meet their rotation requirements. you can still meet these requirements if you select appropriate electives but this requires planning. other states may have some caveats too. i think one or some states state that your school's graduates must be at least 50% domestic students. i think FL has caveats too.

Hell yes I need the federal loans. I'm not going to be able to pay for the tuition fee and living expenses. If I apply for permanent residence, however, I'm not going to be an international applicant. But if I'm an international applicant, even if I apply for permenant residence during my academic years, I will still have to pay full tuition fees. Guh...

none of the new schools are currently eligible for stafford loans; however, Uni of Wollongong has told me that will seek the ability to distribute stafford loans as soon as they are eligible in 2012 (to be eligible foreign med schools must first graduate 2 classes). it is possible the other schools will seek this as well, but only one's that a fair amount of intest from prospective US applicants. for example neither UWA or UniMelb distribute US stafford loans though they would be eligible to do so because there is not enough interest from US applicants to warrant the expenses required to gain approval. ANU graduated there 2nd class last month and takes 20 internationals/year, so it is possible they may pursue approval, but i dont know. if they dont get many applicants from US citizens they'd have no motivation to do so.

 

[Raigon]

none of the new schools are currently eligible for stafford loans; however, Uni of Wollongong has told me that will seek the ability to distribute stafford loans as soon as they are eligible in 2012 (to be eligible foreign med schools must first graduate 2 classes). it is possible the other schools will seek this as well, but only one's that a fair amount of intest from prospective US applicants. for example neither UWA or UniMelb distribute US stafford loans though they would be eligible to do so because there is not enough interest from US applicants to warrant the expenses required to gain approval. ANU graduated there 2nd class last month and takes 20 internationals/year, so it is possible they may pursue approval, but i dont know. if they dont get many applicants from US citizens they'd have no motivation to do so.

I've looked up schools eligible for US stafford loans as listed there:

http://www.staffordloan.com/colleges/foreign/

Apparently ANU is in there. And so is University of Melbourne and Wollongong. Actually, almost every university in Australia is in there. No university in Taiwan is in there (but maybe because our schools are so f*ing cheap - 30,000 NT a semester, counts to 1000 US dollars a semester, 2000 USD a year).

Maybe medical schools are different. So far all the medical schools I want to apply to have stafford loans - Sydney, Flinders, Queensland; they said so on their website.

But I'm more concerned about why there are claims in many threads (not just this one) that say "if you want to return to the US to practice medicine, you should only consider Sydney, UQ, or Flinders."

Is it because they have licensure across the board in all 50 states? Is it because they're eligible for US federal loans? Is it because they allow electives to do clinical rotations overseas so we can get letters of recommendations for residency matching? (Yes I know what clinical rotations are now, I've been around here for a while, but thanks for telling me =D.) Or is there another reason, say reputation?

 

[jaketheory]

I've looked up schools eligible for US stafford loans as listed there:

http://www.staffordloan.com/colleges/foreign/

Apparently ANU is in there. And so is University of Melbourne and Wollongong. Actually, almost every university in Australia is in there. No university in Taiwan is in there (but maybe because our schools are so f*ing cheap - 30,000 NT a semester, counts to 1000 US dollars a semester, 2000 USD a year).

Maybe medical schools are different. So far all the medical schools I want to apply to have stafford loans - Sydney, Flinders, Queensland; they said so on their website.

did you read my previous post? nearly every aussie university can distribute stafford loans to undergrads; however, the US department of education has much stricter requirements for foreign medical schools. as i said before, they have to have first graduated 2 classes before they are eligible. they must then seek approval. ANU only just now graduated its 2nd class. Uni Melb has not sought approval.

i've found all this info on the web myself. no offense, but i'm starting to become annoyed by all the people that post questions on here without even trying to find an answer for themselves. its like they are way lazy. you obviously have the internet. the info is just as easy for you to find as it was for me to find. and to be honest i've spent many, many hours searching for many, many things related to studying medicine in aus. so why should i just give it all away if you arent even willing to put in any effort of your own?

But I'm more concerned about why there are claims in many threads (not just this one) that say "if you want to return to the US to practice medicine, you should only consider Sydney, UQ, or Flinders."

Is it because they have licensure across the board in all 50 states? Is it because they're eligible for US federal loans? Is it because they allow electives to do clinical rotations overseas so we can get letters of recommendations for residency matching? (Yes I know what clinical rotations are now, I've been around here for a while, but thanks for telling me =D.) Or is there another reason, say reputation?

this is a great reason to do the research yourself rather than relying on replies on this forum. much of what is posted is either opinion or anectdotal. in reality where you go in Aus wont make any real difference back in the US. if you are aiming for family medicine, it will be pretty easy. if you are aiming for a competitive specialty it will be pretty hard. you will be an IMG no matter where you go and that is what will matter most. most US residency directors will have little to no experience with any aussie grads and many wont know anything about aussie med schools.

people post USyd, UQ, Flinders are the best because they have taught the vast majority of grad entry applicants from the US. they have experience with US students wishing to return to the US to practice and they have limitied additional resources for these students. for this reason, they have a reputation. however, all aussie universities subsidize their budgets with international student fees. the med schools are no different (i think Notre Dame is an exception). because grad-entry medicine in Aus is similar to the system of undergrad medical edication in the US, USyd, UQ, and Flinders have specifically marketed their programs to US applicants. keep in mind they do this because they make a substantial amount of money from these students, not because they are inherently better at training students to return to the US. no aussie med school has a curriculum aligned with the USMLE. thus you will be on your own for that no matter where you go (or with your fellow american classmates).

as far as i know, every aussie med school will allow you to do elective rotations overseas. the above uni's may have organized agreements with US med schools, making the paperwork a lil less demanding, but you can do this with not much hassle at any med school. keep in mind that some of the agreements are with med schools in NYC. if you are worried about money you should definitely look into the cost of living in NYC. you may decide you want to do electives in a city with a lower cost of living, which would make your decision to study at uni x which has an agreement with NYC med schools a waste.

 

[Raigon]

Never mind. The post was posted out of pure anger. I'm sorry. I won't write something like that again.

 

[jaketheory]

Well, first, I did post a link. So I did do some research. Why do I keep asking these questions? Because I can't f*ing find the answer on the internet even if I search really hard. I looked up every link on the stafford website, and cannot find an independent webpage solely for the purpose of foreign medical schools. Which is why I'm asking.

well i searched real hard and i found it. some people give up way to soon. what stafford website. that link you provided was for a private company. it was not a US dept of education website.

do you know the stafford loan limits?12.5k for undergrads. you think anyone could attend USyd getting 12.5k? of course not. thus undergrad stafford loans are obviously dealt with differently than grad loans. in fact if you attend a US med school you can get up to 224k in stafford and grad plus loans over 4 years. not so for foreign med schools though. for foreign med schools you can get up to the graduate loan limit which is currently 20.5k/year and then you can get grad plus loans to cover the rest. someone, please point out if this info is not accurate.

And I have done even a little bit of research, and compared the schools. I went to every website, found their entry requirements. I know how and when to apply (if by ACER, by direct entry, or by an education agent in your Australian Overseas Representative). I know that there are brochures that tell you how to manage life there and what life is like over there.

nice to know we dont have to hold your hand the whole way thru. now i'm just being an arse.

And I have compared the school, and aside from the fact that some of the newer schools are not accredited by the board (ANU, Uni Wollongong), and some schools do not have approval for licensure even if they were board approved (by California for instance) because they do not meet the pre-clinical anc clinical rotation requirements, like say... Monash for instance (1 year clinical, and 3 year pre-clinical). Yes I know that most, if not all, Australia medical schools give you electives to do overseas and how important it is to get LORs for residency matching.

accredited by the board? what is up with this accreditation bull****? do people not realize no medical school outside the US is accredited in the US?

some schools do not have approval even if they were board approved? what?! what are you talking about? if its approved, it is approved. if it isnt, it isnt.

monash? monash has 1 year preclinical, and 3 years clinical, not the other way around as you've stated.

remember licensure is done at the state level, thus there exists no universal criteria for eligibility. most states do not have lists of approved schools. and just because it is approved doesnt mean your automatically eligible. i think this is what you were refering to above.

I know how and when to apply for PR (that they hate it when you transfer to common wealth supported places because they want your money as an international) and you should do it before you apply or after you graduate.

i'd say getting PR is far more complicated than getting into an aussie med school. lots of people pay a migration agent $2000 to help them with applying for PR. maybe i should be a migration agent.

who said anything about med schools hating students transfering to commonwealth supported places because they want your money? that is not it at all. schools only have so many commonwealth supported places, which is dictacted by the federal government. if you enroll as a non commonwealth supported place you are not entitled to one if you later become a PR. to get one, the school has to have a CSP available for you. as you would not be in first year, all the csp's in your year are likely to have been filled when the class matriculated. if you get lucky, someone would have dropped out or transfered, free up one. unfortunately, as i said, the university is not obligated to offer it to you and there could also be other students that gained PR which are also competiting for that place.

I'm just confused by why Flinders, Sydney, and UQ are special. And I can't seem to find out why either solely by doing research by "looking on the internet" There are many things I can do on my own. I have done my damn research. I know a lot more than I did before I first came to post. And I know that I probably should do more, but I'm not expecting every answer to be hand fed from you. But there are also quite a few things I can't answer and sometimes I want it straight from the horse's mouth as well.And apparently, the horse is biting back. No offense. I won't post anymore questions if it bothers you so much to ask even a single one.If you don't want to answer then don't.

did i not just explain why usyd, uq, and flinders are supposedly special? cuz i thought i did. i think there are a fair number of posters on here that dont actually know that much more about things than you. like i said, you should be cautious of everything you read on here. your best validating it for yourself rather than believing it as true simply because someone posted it.
and you asked more than a single question.

 

[Transition]

wow, you're kind of a jerk jaketheory...


anyways, here's the link to the licensure recognition in California... took me 5 minutes of googling to find it:

http://www.medbd.ca.gov/applicant/schools_recognized.html


Raigon,
If you want to pick an Aussie med school and you plan to go back to the US, I'd use that list as a guide as it will leave the most doors open.

Ignore jaketheory... he seems to be wanting a fight for some reason.

 

[jaketheory]

I'd use that list as a guide as it will leave the most doors open.

everyone is going to have their own opinion. deciphering what info to believe yourself is the hardest part. actually it can be very easy, but if you dont want to risk discovering later that you made very important life decisions on information that wasnt even accurate, i'd put some serious thought into it rather than just going with what one person says (e.g. about just using some Cali board approved list as a guide).

I spoke with the admissions person over at Wollongong the other day. In 2012 Wollongong will become eligible to distribute US federal aid and they have every intention of getting approved to do so. She also told me that the Cali board (with whom she personally spoke) makes the decisions regarding approval with the same criteria in mind, ie. 2 years of graduated classes. None of the new aussie schools are on the Cali list because as far as they are concerned, if the school hasnt graduated 2 classes they dont even exist.

ANU graduated its 2nd class last month thus it is now eligible to be approved for the Cali list. Wollongong also told me that the approval list is not set in stone. Just because your school is not on the list doesnt mean you cannot get licensed. the process requires getting the school approved. for instance if i graduate from wollongong and want to practice in Cali i apply to Cali. for my application to be approved the Uni of Wollongong med school will have to provide documentation to prove they meet the Cali board's criteria. Wollongong told that if i wish to do this, they would comply and cooperate with Cali for this to occur. In doing so, Wollongong along with my application would be approved. In theory, Wollongong would then be put on the approved list, but only if someone is motivated enough to do it. it is a bitch to get a hold of those people, so who knows if they move any faster than a snails pace. i would think that every other aussie med school would be willing to go through the hoops to help their grads get licensed to work in Cali as well. it looks good for the schools rep.

The schools that are currently on the list have been around for ages, thus theyve had loads of grads. The more grads a school has the more likely they are to have a grad seeking to work in Cali. All of the aussie med schools will eventually appear on the Cali list, it is just a matter of time. The AMC is held in high regard for its accreditation standards of aussie med schools even by the US.

i'm not pushing for one school or the other. i'm just encouraging you to find out as much as possible so you can make an informed decision rather. i personally think those 3 schools are the best choices, but i wouldnt avoid applying to others either. apply to as many as you can. luckily it wont cost you an arm and a leg as it would in the US.

also keep in mind that the many of the schools will fill their classes with 1st preferencers. if you place them as a first preference, interview, and dont get an offer, you are **** out of luck until the following year. thus its a risk worth weighing. Wollongong will consider you even if you've interviewed somewhere else and put Wollongong as 3rd preference. but then again, you international applicants have more options with direct applications.

 

[Raigon]

anyways, here's the link to the licensure recognition in California... took me 5 minutes of googling to find it:

http://www.medbd.ca.gov/applicant/schools_recognized.html

Raigon,
If you want to pick an Aussie med school and you plan to go back to the US, I'd use that list as a guide as it will leave the most doors open.

Hey, I know that list. Thanks! I've found that list ages ago, but I think I can't open it in my country, because every time I try, it just says it's a proxy server problem. My friend told me a really cool method, though: just open it in "cached". And here's the list direct from the site.

Australia

• Monash University Faculty of Medicine
• The Flinders University of South Australia
• The University of Queensland Medical School
• University of Adelaide Medical School
• University of Melbourne Faculty of Medicine
• University of New South Wales Faculty of Medicine
• University of Newcastle Faculty of Medicine
• University of Sydney Faculty of Medicine
• University of Tasmania Faculty of Medicine
• University of Western Australia School of Medicine

So many medical schools I want to go to not on that list like ANU, Deakens... damn, but I guess I already knew that. I found this list last month. They're most likely going to get approved soon. At least ANU is. They need the rep. They're a national school.

But one thing was always on my mind: Melbourne? Is that the new "MD-program" Melbourne or was that the old "MBBS" Melbourne that's approved? Well, guess that doesn't matter Either way, I'll not be considering Melbourne. I'll be graduating this July. Not enough time for taking the last pre-requisites required. Oh well...

Can't believe I have to wait until after the deadline at the end of April though for Flinders to start offering interviews. That would be about the same time I start applying for Sydney and UQ and probably ANU as a backup. If I only get ANU though (that is, if even UQ rejects me - not likely I hope), I'll either have to be careful of the states in America I choose or stay in Australia.

Hope your flight goes smoothly, Transition. I know you don't like them, but flying is fun! I hope for the best. And keep me up to date on that blog of yours.

 

[Transition]

everyone is going to have their own opinion. deciphering what info to believe yourself is the hardest part. actually it can be very easy, but if you dont want to risk discovering later that you made very important life decisions on information that wasnt even accurate, i'd put some serious thought into it rather than just going with what one person says (e.g. about just using some Cali board approved list as a guide).

I spoke with the admissions person over at Wollongong the other day. In 2012 Wollongong will become eligible to distribute US federal aid and they have every intention of getting approved to do so. She also told me that the Cali board (with whom she personally spoke) makes the decisions regarding approval with the same criteria in mind, ie. 2 years of graduated classes. None of the new aussie schools are on the Cali list because as far as they are concerned, if the school hasnt graduated 2 classes they dont even exist.

ANU graduated its 2nd class last month thus it is now eligible to be approved for the Cali list. Wollongong also told me that the approval list is not set in stone. Just because your school is not on the list doesnt mean you cannot get licensed. the process requires getting the school approved. for instance if i graduate from wollongong and want to practice in Cali i apply to Cali. for my application to be approved the Uni of Wollongong med school will have to provide documentation to prove they meet the Cali board's criteria. Wollongong told that if i wish to do this, they would comply and cooperate with Cali for this to occur. In doing so, Wollongong along with my application would be approved. In theory, Wollongong would then be put on the approved list, but only if someone is motivated enough to do it. it is a bitch to get a hold of those people, so who knows if they move any faster than a snails pace. i would think that every other aussie med school would be willing to go through the hoops to help their grads get licensed to work in Cali as well. it looks good for the schools rep.

The schools that are currently on the list have been around for ages, thus theyve had loads of grads. The more grads a school has the more likely they are to have a grad seeking to work in Cali. All of the aussie med schools will eventually appear on the Cali list, it is just a matter of time. The AMC is held in high regard for its accreditation standards of aussie med schools even by the US.

i'm not pushing for one school or the other. i'm just encouraging you to find out as much as possible so you can make an informed decision rather. i personally think those 3 schools are the best choices, but i wouldnt avoid applying to others either. apply to as many as you can. luckily it wont cost you an arm and a leg as it would in the US.

so... what was the point of this big rant of yours?

that you can apply to multiple schools? no one said you couldn't and that you certainly could apply to the cali board to seek approval, but the thing is, why would you do so if there are currently 3 well-respected (although I would argue against UQ - of course that's a matter for another topic) schools already on the list. I would not make such a huge decision on the promises of a single person at a school that hasn't even graduated it's first class yet. No intended offenses to UoW, they seem quite good and well-organized, but their experience in these matters isn't exactly deep. These things are unpredictable sometimes... do you really want to leave that to chance? I would personally want to minimize as many unpredictable variables as possible.

also keep in mind that the many of the schools will fill their classes with 1st preferencers. if you place them as a first preference, interview, and dont get an offer, you are **** out of luck until the following year. thus its a risk worth weighing. Wollongong will consider you even if you've interviewed somewhere else and put Wollongong as 3rd preference. but then again, you international applicants have more options with direct applications.

If you apply as an international, the majority of schools allow you to apply directly or through an agent. The only schools that accept only ACER apps are USyd and Monash. Flinders & ANU are direct. Wollongong & UQ are through agents (although direct and ACER options exist). This leaves plenty of elbow room.

 

[Transition]

Hey, I know that list. Thanks! I've found that list ages ago, but I think I can't open it in my country, because every time I try, it just says it's a proxy server problem. My friend told me a really cool method, though: just open it in "cached". And here's the list direct from the site.

Australia

• Monash University Faculty of Medicine
• The Flinders University of South Australia
• The University of Queensland Medical School
• University of Adelaide Medical School
• University of Melbourne Faculty of Medicine
• University of New South Wales Faculty of Medicine
• University of Newcastle Faculty of Medicine
• University of Sydney Faculty of Medicine
• University of Tasmania Faculty of Medicine
• University of Western Australia School of Medicine

So many medical schools I want to go to not on that list like ANU, Deakens... damn, but I guess I already knew that. I found this list last month. They're most likely going to get approved soon. At least ANU is. They need the rep. They're a national school.

But one thing was always on my mind: Melbourne? Is that the new "MD-program" Melbourne or was that the old "MBBS" Melbourne that's approved? Well, guess that doesn't matter Either way, I'll not be considering Melbourne. I'll be graduating this July. Not enough time for taking the last pre-requisites required. Oh well...

Can't believe I have to wait until after the deadline at the end of April though for Flinders to start offering interviews. That would be about the same time I start applying for Sydney and UQ and probably ANU as a backup. If I only get ANU though (that is, if even UQ rejects me - not likely I hope), I'll either have to be careful of the states in America I choose or stay in Australia.

Hope your flight goes smoothly, Transition. I know you don't like them, but flying is fun! I hope for the best. And keep me up to date on that blog of yours.

Thanks for the luck

I would be careful with Monash and Melbourne. They both have recently changed programs (Monash with grad entry and Melbourne with the MD program). I'm not sure how this will affect their licensure in Cali. It may be best to email the schools and the Cali licensing board about it.

Don't worry about UQ, you'll get in (unless something drastically changes with them).

Anyways, take a break man. You need to stop obsessing over this. There's not much you can do but wait, so go enjoy yourself. I'd love to be in Taiwan right now, it's a pretty awesome place and the women aren't bad either

But then, I have a travel-crush on Asia.

 

[Raigon]

Thanks for the luck

I would be careful with Monash and Melbourne. They both have recently changed programs (Monash with grad entry and Melbourne with the MD program). I'm not sure how this will affect their licensure in Cali. It may be best to email the schools and the Cali licensing board about it.

Don't worry about UQ, you'll get in (unless something drastically changes with them).

Anyways, take a break man. You need to stop obsessing over this. There's not much you can do but wait, so go enjoy yourself. I'd love to be in Taiwan right now, it's a pretty awesome place and the women aren't bad either

But then, I have a travel-crush on Asia.

Yeah I probably should stop obssessing. Maybe that's why I'm asking so many questions. Sorry. =P No need to get in a fight over what I said. I've even edited that post.

Heheh, you should stop by Taiwan some time. I'll show you around. But do it soon, cuz I'm not going back. Probably ever if I can help it, unless it's to see my parents. Eh... we can talk about that if I get into Flinders. I can see you there anyway if I can somehow get in.

 

[holymothaofgod]

hi there,

im a student in year 10 living in melbourne and i believe that i want to choose a career in medicine when i leave school but i have no idea what initial steps i need to make from year 12 onward such as what subjects to study in university and things like that.

much appreciated

 

[silviadewi]

Hi..

I want to ask, I'm a 3rd year med student in China. I will get a mbbs degree after graduating. I'm considering Australia as an option to take my master degree (I know it's too early to think about it, but better than too late, right ).

Is it hard to get be accepted there? Any examination that I should take? Can u give any tips? and is it possible to work there as a foreigner?

Thanks a lot, looking forward to ur reply.

 

[jaketheory]

Hi..

I want to ask, I'm a 3rd year med student in China. I will get a mbbs degree after graduating. I'm considering Australia as an option to take my master degree (I know it's too early to think about it, but better than too late, right ).

Is it hard to get be accepted there? Any examination that I should take? Can u give any tips? and is it possible to work there as a foreigner?

Thanks a lot, looking forward to ur reply.

i'd first ask why u want to do a master right after the mbbs. would you not want to get some work experience and earn a little first? and what would you do the masters in?

how competitive it would be to get accepted to a masters course would depend on what it is in, what type it is (research or coursework), and your academic record, and possibly any work experience. you've provided no information about any of these. in general however, i would say if you have a decent gpa in undergrad, it shouldnt be too hard to get into a coursework degree. most research degree programs will require reearch experience - the equivalent of an Australian honours year (year of full-time research resulting in a thesis).

 

[Sumi Sam]

I am doing my 2nd year in Bio Tech. and want to know the rquirements to do medicine- what is the expected GPA, I can try with the 1st & 2nd year reults of Bio Tech/I have to finish the 4 years.
Cheers

Sam

 

[naturalgut]

I am doing my 2nd year in Bio Tech. and want to know the rquirements to do medicine- what is the expected GPA, I can try with the 1st & 2nd year reults of Bio Tech/I have to finish the 4 years.
Cheers

Sam

hi there,

im a student in year 10 living in melbourne and i believe that i want to choose a career in medicine when i leave school but i have no idea what initial steps i need to make from year 12 onward such as what subjects to study in university and things like that.

much appreciated

Talk to your high school careers counsellor, or you could try taking a look at

http://www.medicine.unimelb.edu.au/

 

[jaketheory]

I am doing my 2nd year in Bio Tech. and want to know the rquirements to do medicine- what is the expected GPA, I can try with the 1st & 2nd year reults of Bio Tech/I have to finish the 4 years.
Cheers

Sam

the requirements are on the school's websites. only Melbourne has specific course prerequisites. the other schools simply require a bachelor degree. melbourne also requires 1 semester each of physiology, anatomy, and biochem.

you'll need to take gamsat.

most schools will calculate your gpa using only the last 3 years (UQ is an exception). most schools will also not include your current year if you are currently completing your degree. thus, you cannot really use results from years 1 and 2 because with a 4 year degree only years 2, 3, and 4 will be used, and you have not completed anything above year 2, so your gpa would be based on a single year, which isn't very useful, expecially considering most schools progressively weight each year (i.e. the first of the 3 years used is weighted the least). you cant apply until you are in your final year anyway.

 

[Shabutie]

hey naturalgut, i just finished medical school in the dominican republic. i would like to know any info you have on what to do to join a residency in Australia or New Z. or any links that you think may help.
i apreciate your desire to help other people!

 

[CUMphil]

hi naturalgut, I have finished my BSc and Mphil in Singapore. I am wondering how they assess my academic record in UMelbourne? My frd told me they will only assess my GAMSAT and the latest 3 years academc record which is 2 years Mphil and last year BSc. Is it true? I did not have a good honor in BSc (Sec, div II) but I got all A in final year. My Mphil was all A-. Your comments are most appreciated.

But the way, do u know how other universities in Australia will assess my record too?

 

[jaketheory]

hi naturalgut, I have finished my BSc and Mphil in Singapore. I am wondering how they assess my academic record in UMelbourne? My frd told me they will only assess my GAMSAT and the latest 3 years academc record which is 2 years Mphil and last year BSc. Is it true? I did not have a good honor in BSc (Sec, div II) but I got all A in final year. My Mphil was all A-. Your comments are most appreciated.

But the way, do u know how other universities in Australia will assess my record too?

go to there website and you will find they have stated how they assess applicants. they will use the last 3 years of your bachelors and will not include your masters. each year will be weighted progressively (year 1 weigthed x1, year 2 weigthed x2, year 3 weigthed x3). they will invite applicants for interview based on combination of their weighted gpa and their Gamsat score. after interview, they will offer places based on combination of weighted gpa, gamsat, and interview score.

 

[jaketheory]

Second, if your plan is to go back to the US (and you want to leave all your doors open), then you should be only looking at USyd, UQ or Flinders as those 3 are the ones with licensure in all US states.

recently revisited this thread and read the above. who says USyd, UQ, and Flinders are the ONLY 3 'with licensure in all 50 state'? and for that matter, who says you can get licensed in all 50 states with a degree from these?

Flinders, USyd, and UQ are the only programs that distribute US federal loans. of course distributing loans has nothing to do with how each state's medical licensing board evaluates these degrees.

if someone has further info on this topic, i'd love to know. i'm currently considering all the schools listed on the CA approved list. Monash is on that list, and while they don't offer US loans, its probably my best chance as they don't rank on GPA and they're less competitive than USyd and UQ. I will be a local applicant and the non-bonded CSP GAMSAT cut-off this past year was the 97th percentile; i can't expect to score that high on the gammy. USyd's is lower but, as i said, they are quite competitive too, so i'd have to rock the interview to make up any defencies in my gammy. but anyway, i'm seeking info about different schools being eligible for license in different US states. any info appreciated.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

Second, if your plan is to go back to the US (and you want to leave all your doors open), then you should be only looking at USyd, UQ or Flinders as those 3 are the ones with licensure in all US states.

recently revisited this thread and read the above. who says USyd, UQ, and Flinders are the ONLY 3 'with licensure in all 50 state'? and for that matter, who says you can get licensed in all 50 states with a degree from these?

Flinders, USyd, and UQ are the only programs that distribute US federal loans. of course distributing loans has nothing to do with how each state's medical licensing board evaluates these degrees.

if someone has further info on this topic, i'd love to know. i'm currently considering all the schools listed on the CA approved list. Monash is on that list, and while they don't offer US loans, its probably my best chance as they don't rank on GPA and they're less competitive than USyd and UQ. I will be a local applicant and the non-bonded CSP GAMSAT cut-off this past year was the 97th percentile; i can't expect to score that high on the gammy. USyd's is lower but, as i said, they are quite competitive too, so i'd have to rock the interview to make up any defencies in my gammy. but anyway, i'm seeking info about different schools being eligible for license in different US states. any info appreciated.

Honestly Jake, if you are that concerned about licensing, my advice to you is to apply to a US DO school instead for a number of reasons. You will be closer to home, do rotations in the US, and logistically it will be easier for you to match into residency from a DO school than from Australia. Also the DO programs have their own exclusive residency programs, if you want to do something like Orthopedics or Radiology, you can do this from a DO school way easier than from Australia. If you are content with primary care it should not be too much of an issue but you really never know because there are more medical schools opening up in the US while residency spots are fairly stagnant, so in other words in the coming years its going to be harder to get a residency as a foreign graduate.

 

[jaketheory]

Honestly Jake, if you are that concerned about licensing, my advice to you is to apply to a US DO school instead for a number of reasons. You will be closer to home, do rotations in the US, and logistically it will be easier for you to match into residency from a DO school than from Australia. Also the DO programs have their own exclusive residency programs, if you want to do something like Orthopedics or Radiology, you can do this from a DO school way easier than from Australia. If you are content with primary care it should not be too much of an issue but you really never know because there are more medical schools opening up in the US while residency spots are fairly stagnant, so in other words in the coming years its going to be harder to get a residency as a foreign graduate.

I live in Australia. Australia is my home. im not moving back to the US to go to DO school. i got permanent residency and moved here to go to an Aus school as a local. i want to be able to work in Aus and having a DO degree will make that difficult. first of all that would make me an overseas grad and thus subject me to the 10 year moratorium. second, while i know some DO's work here in Aus, it isn't quite as straight forward convincing the locals that you are the same as an allopathic physician simply because they are not informed about it.

further, as a local, med fees are 9k/year in Aus. i'd be looking at 40+/year in the US. here i can also get centrelink that will cover ~2/3 my living expenses. cant get anything similar in the US. and once i get citizenship i can defer my fees interest free. again, nothing similar in the US. so it will be dramatically cheaper to go to an Aus school.


and while trivial, the US application process is much more drawn out than the AUs process.

more importantly, i'm not yet a citizen and leaving Aus now will mean my permanent resident visa will expire before i'm eligible for citizenship. i could pretty much kiss all my chances of working as a dr in Aus at that point. not only will i be an overseas doc, i wont even have a visa. sure i could apply for another visa (sigh, what a huge pain), but given the australian medical student tsunami about to hit, getting a job in Aus will be very difficult. and as i mentioned above, even if i secured work, id be subject to the moratorium. given id be coming back after completing residency, my training would not count towards the moratorium as it does for img's completing training here. very bad situation in my opinion. no thank you.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

I live in Australia. Australia is my home. im not moving back to the US to go to DO school. i got permanent residency and moved here to go to an Aus school as a local. i want to be able to work in Aus and having a DO degree will make that difficult. first of all that would make me an overseas grad and thus subject me to the 10 year moratorium. second, while i know some DO's work here in Aus, it isn't quite as straight forward convincing the locals that you are the same as an allopathic physician simply because they are not informed about it.

further, as a local, med fees are 9k/year in Aus. i'd be looking at 40+/year in the US. here i can also get centrelink that will cover ~2/3 my living expenses. cant get anything similar in the US. and once i get citizenship i can defer my fees interest free. again, nothing similar in the US. so it will be dramatically cheaper to go to an Aus school.


and while trivial, the US application process is much more drawn out than the AUs process.

more importantly, i'm not yet a citizen and leaving Aus now will mean my permanent resident visa will expire before i'm eligible for citizenship. i could pretty much kiss all my chances of working as a dr in Aus at that point. not only will i be an overseas doc, i wont even have a visa. sure i could apply for another visa (sigh, what a huge pain), but given the australian medical student tsunami about to hit, getting a job in Aus will be very difficult. and as i mentioned above, even if i secured work, id be subject to the moratorium. given id be coming back after completing residency, my training would not count towards the moratorium as it does for img's completing training here. very bad situation in my opinion. no thank you.

Getting a job as a doctor will be difficult if you do not have PR, otherwise I still do not see it being an issue provided you went to
an Aussie school.

I can tell you that matching in the US is also going to become very difficult, most residency spots are remaining stagnant while new medical schools both MD and DO are expanding, and with the ever worsening economic situation, I am not sure how much longer they will keep taking IMGs into residency programs. Honestly getting into a DO school is not that hard compared to an MD school. You just sounded like you were really concerned about getting a medical license in the US. I had a few friends from USyd who got into residency programs in NA, but they were pretty much primary care fields.

The student tsunami is primarily going to hurt internationals who want to stay here, they took internationals for internship because they used to have a surplus of them, I do not know how its going to pan out in a few years. Since you are a local I would not get too worried about not getting a job, I think it will be harder to get into training near big cities but there should be enough training programs provided you are a local.

Pitman seems more optimistic saying student tsunamis are nothing new. Hopefully he is right.

Yeah, I could not argue with you about cost, you will have a lot less debt on your head going to an Aussie school since you are a local.

But anyway, anyone who is coming here as an international and who is looking to work elsewhere especially America or Canada is taking a very big 300k plus risk.

 

[jaketheory]

Getting a job as a doctor will be difficult if you do not have PR, otherwise I still do not see it being an issue provided you went to
an Aussie school.

I can tell you that matching in the US is also going to become very difficult, most residency spots are remaining stagnant while new medical schools both MD and DO are expanding, and with the ever worsening economic situation, I am not sure how much longer they will keep taking IMGs into residency programs. Honestly getting into a DO school is not that hard compared to an MD school. You just sounded like you were really concerned about getting a medical license in the US. I had a few friends from USyd who got into residency programs in NA, but they were pretty much primary care fields.

The student tsunami is primarily going to hurt internationals who want to stay here, they took internationals for internship because they used to have a surplus of them, I do not know how its going to pan out in a few years. Since you are a local I would not get too worried about not getting a job, I think it will be harder to get into training near big cities but there should be enough training programs provided you are a local.

Pitman seems more optimistic saying student tsunamis are nothing new. Hopefully he is right.

Yeah, I could not argue with you about cost, you will have a lot less debt on your head going to an Aussie school since you are a local.

But anyway, anyone who is coming here as an international and who is looking to work elsewhere especially America or Canada is taking a very big 300k plus risk.

as i am an aussie permanent resident i'm not taking a 300k risk. if i cant get residency in the US, i can do specialty training here. but i dont anticipate not being able to a residency in the US. i'm most interested at this point in family med, internal med, and/or psychiatry, or similar. while things may get more competitive in the US, it will not be off limits altogthor for IMGs any time soon.

i'm not so much worried about getting a license in A US state. i'm just looking for what schools would keep open the possibility of getting a license in the most number of states.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

as i am an aussie permanent resident i'm not taking a 300k risk. if i cant get residency in the US, i can do specialty training here. but i dont anticipate not being able to a residency in the US. i'm most interested at this point in family med, internal med, and/or psychiatry, or similar. while things may get more competitive in the US, it will not be off limits altogthor for IMGs any time soon.

i'm not so much worried about getting a license in A US state. i'm just looking for what schools would keep open the possibility of getting a license in the most number of states.

Probably so but I would not bank on being able to get a US residency as a given, I personally know of several of my classmates who were going through the match this year, it was tough, much harder than in past years, and with more medical schools and the stagnant number of residencies, it will be even harder to get a residency match in the US. Most likely the best chances will be the primary care fields. If you are okay with those areas, fine, but don't count on something like Derm or Orthopedics even many US grads do not get those.

I also would not underestimate the USMLE, I took it, did well but worked a lot to do well. And I did not take it until the end of year 3.

My personal feeling is that in the current climate, with skyrocketing costs, its super risky to go to a medical school in Australia as an international.

Even with the increased student numbers, assuming you got a PR, I do not see the job market for doctors in Oz souring any time soon either. It will get harder for international students and OTDs to work here though.

 

[qwerty2010]

naturalgut,

I just got accepted by UWS MBBS.

I am an international student and I want to know more about UWS: teaching qualities+facilities, career opportunities (will it be hard to become a doctor in hospitals in sydney, assuming I can get internship and license, i know my identity wont allow me)


hope you can help

THanks.

 

[naturalgut]

naturalgut,

I just got accepted by UWS MBBS.

I am an international student and I want to know more about UWS: teaching qualities+facilities, career opportunities (will it be hard to become a doctor in hospitals in sydney, assuming I can get internship and license, i know my identity wont allow me)


hope you can help

THanks.

Unfortunately I can't help with your questions, I'm from Melbourne University and haven't looked at teaching qualities or facilities at medical schools since I applied (6+ years ago). It's difficult to predict the exact climate in 5-6 years time for internship positions, especially with the new medical schools and graduate courses opening up across the country, but it will be interesting (and undoubtedly frustrating for some) to note any further developments in the system over the next few years.

 

[Samu]

Hi i'm a 4rth year student of MBBS in china, i wanna know if i can do my one year internship in any hospital of australia??

 

[qwerty2010]

Unfortunately I can't help with your questions, I'm from Melbourne University and haven't looked at teaching qualities or facilities at medical schools since I applied (6+ years ago). It's difficult to predict the exact climate in 5-6 years time for internship positions, especially with the new medical schools and graduate courses opening up across the country, but it will be interesting (and undoubtedly frustrating for some) to note any further developments in the system over the next few years.

Hey, assume I graduate from UWS MBBS after 5 years time, and there is no internship places for any international students including me, and so I go to the UK for internship (I know UK provides internship for fresh grads), then come back to OZ to get a license and to practice as a doctor. Is this possible?

 

[hpe]

Hi everyone,
I'm a Canadian citizen, and finished my undergrad at McGill in Montreal, and am currently doing my Masters degree also at McGill. I was wondering if anyone has an information regarding Canadians going to the Australian medical schools? I've been specifically looking at University of Melbourne, and if I ended up going, I think I most likely stay and not try to come back to practice in Canada. That being said, how impossible is it to get a residency position if I am not a permanent resident? I am not interested in being a GP, and would ideally like to specialize in neurology/neurosurgery.
Thanks in advance!

 

[finkish]

Hey everyone,
Just thought I'd give my two cents worth regarding the situation of studying medicine in Australia now, though of course I've only been going to University of Melbourne for the past 5 years (pre-Melbourne model, as an undergraduate).
I'm an international student here, and Melbourne as a place to live is great. But I guess I came here without really being very sure of what I wanted/where I wanted to live, just wanted to be a doctor, and study overseas, and now after 5 years here - I would love to stay, Melbourne's become home.
However, this 'medical student tsunami' thing, is pretty real. I want to emphasise to ALL OF YOU out there who are thinking of applying to come to Australia to study, how real it is. And how unlikely it is, as a non-Australian, non-Permanent Resident medical student, to find a job in a hospital when you graduate. AND TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THIS BEFORE YOU COME HERE AS AN INTERNATIONAL. I did not think getting an internship would be an issue - figured med school was the worst of it. Not. True.

Australia has never guaranteed internship positions for international students, however the trend has always been 40-60% of international graduates from Australian universities have gotten jobs (at least in Victoria, and I think in NSW until this year).
However, internship positions ARE guaranteed for Australians and PRs who graduate from Victoria.
Basically - when applying for internship, there are two categories in Victoria. Category 1= Australian and PR, Category 2= International graduates and interstate applicants.
All Category 1 people are guaranteed a job, thus all of them are given priority, before the people in Category 2 are considered. Therefore, if you're in category 2, it doesn't matter how academically talented you are/how great a doctor you might become, you will still be picked last.

From an Australian government perspective- fair enough, all the Australians would be kicking up a massive fuss if internationals were getting jobs over them. However, international students are the ones who FUND universities here basically $almost 400k for the degree each (and despite this, most international students would agree that they do feel like second-class citizens here while completing our degree and living here - as we're not allowed concession student transport cards, and also we're not given some opportunities to get more clinical exposure during holidays - medical school specific grouch). So to deny a job those who basically fund the system, is mildly ridiculous.

The reason internationals in the years before were able to get jobs is because there were about equal numbers of jobs available to students graduating. Medical schools Australia-wide have been drastically increasing the numbers of medical students (almost double what it was 5-10 years ago) so now there are less jobs available for the total numbers of students graduating. There are basically just enough jobs for Category 1 people. None for Category 2 in 2012.

I wish I'd known before I'd come, because I would not have come here, spent 6 years creating a life (Because remember that's what you do when you move somewhere - you make friends/you make a place home).
Also - as a relatively academic (aka somewhat nerdy) medical student, just a comment re: the medical course here. One might point out that 'you're international - go home! go to the states! go to the uk!' It's not that easy to swap and jump to a completely different medical system that you weren't trained in, particularly if you feel you weren't really trained that well.
Number of contact hours in first 2 and a half years at Melb Uni per week - possibly about 15-18. Less than what a science student at Melb Uni would have. Yes, we might be cutting up cadavers to learn anatomy, but how much can you learn from that if you only do about 9 hours in a semester? Learn the entire anatomy of the lower body in one lecture? That's how it's run here - all the rumours about not knowing much anatomy because teaching hours have been massively cut and it's all self-directed learning? True, true, true. Why is UniMelb so highly ranked? I guess research funding, and also it really culls the top of the top from Australia - put a bunch of type A learningbots together in a medical course- of course they'll do well, whether or not you teach them much. They eat textbooks for breakfast.

I never thought as a doctor, not getting a job would be something to worry about - I thought the main aim of medical school was to head down/study/ learn to be a good doctor/have a bit of fun in between. It's become very real in the past few months though. I'm in one of the large metropolitan hospitals and classmates and I have become having conversations with doctors in passing regarding applying for internship.

Director of internship education - who works on intern selection panel quote: 'As far as I've heard, the internship spots available for internationals next year is 0-1% of total spots'

To say I'm shattered is an understatement. Of course I don't know what'll happen until next year, but to think I won't get a job (like the 100 or so students in Sydney this year who didn't get matched because they were internationals) is just, heartbreaking.

Basically, only come here if you're planning on leaving. You're not going to be able to stay and work here. Don't come. It's the same price as the states to get educated in Australia - but you're probably better trained in the US.

If you have any questions, holler away.

 

[PacificBlue2012]

I would like to chime in on this, first of all are you talking about USyd? And are you talking about the class of 2009? I can tell you there were plenty of internationals in my cohort who got internships. Also there were about 50 international students in that cohort, not 100.

While I agree that it is getting harder to stay for non PRs, that has been my point all along. Its better to get PR and apply or try to get PR after enrollment.

I cannot comment of Melbourne's academic quality but I can say that USyd has upgraded its basic science education considerably. Especially for students starting last year, they study a lot more anatomy than before.

As far as blankly stating North American training is superior to Australia, I doubt it, I even have friends in US medical schools and compared notes with them, at USyd at least I was learning the same things.

 

[naturalgut]

At last! I'm done with medical school! Internship starts next week!