If you could do it over would you

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The funny thing is that there are some people that have wanted to be a doctor for so long and have built it up so much that they will like it NO MATTER WHAT! The instructors could cut off their fingers and toes in medical school and they would say "Wow, that pain was really refreshing. Now with my mind clear I can focus on being a great Doctor!" It is surprising how much one can take and still pretend to like it!

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Now that this thread has reached 1000 posts, I'm afraid they're going to shut it down....

I think this should be made a sticky. Very good read before going to medical school.

But i thought the admins didn't close threads down until around 10K posts, so we got some decent mileage left.
 
In the interest of full disclosure, I am pre-med (just accepted to UAB Med School) so I can't answer the original question of this thread. However, I am 37 and have worked in sales and consulting over the past 15 years. My husband is a partner in a big law firm. My dad was a professor. My mom is an IT exec. So, suffice it to say that I have been up close and personal with various and sundry professional options (including medicine - other family members are doctors and nurses). I can say with absolute certainty that all of it - every last profession I just referenced - is a bitch and can suck the very lifeblood out of you if you let it.

Bad hours? My husband has billed so many hours in the past four years that our children think a rock star has entered the house in the off chance he gets home before their bedtime (seven days a week, most weeks). I used to fly around the country so much in my consulting job that I got to know the flight attendants on certain coast-to-coast flights. Sad, but true.

Horrendous loans? Georgetown Law was expensive. Very. Golden handcuffs are not unique to medicine.

Working with or for lunatics? The cartoon Dilbert is funny for a reason. The insane garbage that goes on in the corporate world (and the legal and academic worlds for that matter) is enough to make you want to go all Unibomber on people. I distinctly remember a period of time in my consulting days when I cried in the shower almost every morning for a period of almost six months because the execs I worked for and the clients I dealt with were so awful I thought my confidence, dignity and self-respect were a figment of my imagination.

Legal jeopardy? I have been sued 16 times (and counting) for selling a certain pharmacologic product. Can't say much more about it than that but you can only imagine.

My point is this - when you get right down to it, life and work are really freakin' hard. Period. For many of you who do not have partners or children yet, it only gets more complicated. Add exorbitant mortgages to the mix and you get my drift. BUT (the big but!), if you are doing something you feel passionate about, for whatever reason, then you are ahead of the game. And if you make the effort to savor the finer moments of whatever it is you are doing in both life and work, then so much the better. It really is about perspective and what you bring to it. I watched my father die from cancer. He had a lifetime of regrets, the largest of which was missing out on the good times in his life because he was so frustrated by the bad. I vowed to myself not to live that way and I think that having faith (whatever that may be) makes a huge difference. My husband is a good example for me. He really likes his work even though it is so hard on him. Even our neurosurgeon friends (!) can’t believe how hard he works, but he is still relatively happy. Stressed out a lot, but happy.

So there you go. Feel free to laugh at me in a few years when I am cursing the day I decided to go into medicine. But know this - the view from the different cowpatches is no better, if you get my drift.

I am now tripping off my soapbox. Yikes!

Happy Thanksgiving. Kiss your loved ones.

(Hedge fund management may be the promised land. They make a c**pload of $$!)


I feel for you.. especially at your age..thats not a knock because you are still young.... you will soon feel the pain that I DID... and you wont know it until there is no turning back

Medicine used to be good 20 years ago. after all that training you want flexibility over your schedule, autonomy.. etc.. You get NONE of that now unless you go into plastic surgery (cosmetic) which is purely cash.. Docs who graduate are unable to go out and be there OWN man anymore. you cant afford it.. It used to be you could put out yoru shingle and go into practice for yourself. those days are past... You will be working for a big corporation or the government and it will feel like you are punching a clock. Even john edwards said it this morning.. he wants UNIVERSAL health care. He mentions all the people that need to come together to make it work.. HE DID NOT MENTION PHYSICIANS. because he knows we are pawns.. That we will do exactly what the govt says. He did mention insurance companies though.
think very hard before you embark on this arduous journey that will suck the life out of you and leave you depressed, poor, old and cynical..
 
I feel for you.. especially at your age..thats not a knock because you are still young.... you will soon feel the pain that I DID... and you wont know it until there is no turning back

Medicine used to be good 20 years ago. after all that training you want flexibility over your schedule, autonomy.. etc.. You get NONE of that now unless you go into plastic surgery (cosmetic) which is purely cash.. Docs who graduate are unable to go out and be there OWN man anymore. you cant afford it.. It used to be you could put out yoru shingle and go into practice for yourself. those days are past... You will be working for a big corporation or the government and it will feel like you are punching a clock. Even john edwards said it this morning.. he wants UNIVERSAL health care. He mentions all the people that need to come together to make it work.. HE DID NOT MENTION PHYSICIANS. because he knows we are pawns.. That we will do exactly what the govt says. He did mention insurance companies though.
think very hard before you embark on this arduous journey that will suck the life out of you and leave you depressed, poor, old and cynical..

Speaking of universal healthcare...would it be a benefit for doctors for our gov. (although no one said it has to be government sponsered) to go to a universal system? From some stuff i read some people suggested just opening up medicare to everyone. Does medicare pay well? This could increase the volume for many practices (though decreasing payments; again does medicare pay well?)?
 
The funny thing is that there are some people that have wanted to be a doctor for so long and have built it up so much that they will like it NO MATTER WHAT! The instructors could cut off their fingers and toes in medical school and they would say "Wow, that pain was really refreshing. Now with my mind clear I can focus on being a great Doctor!" It is surprising how much one can take and still pretend to like it!

This is hilarious! And while it sounds ridiculous, I look around and wonder about my classmates sometimes.
 
I want to be a doctor because I want to help people. I don't care about the money. As long as I'm helping people then I will be completely happy.

I am sorry, but this is pure bull****. You don't go through four years of medical school, internships, and residency to make chump change at the end of it. There has to be some sort of compensation to aleast respect what you've gone through to make it as a competent (I hope) physician.
 
I am sorry, but this is pure bull****. You don't go through four years of medical school, internships, and residency to make chump change at the end of it. There has to be some sort of compensation to aleast respect what you've gone through to make it as a competent (I hope) physician.

I'm still a premed, and even I agree with this.

Somehow, I think you'd care if you didn't take home well into six figures while you were helping people. :oops:
 
I’ll add my two cents yet they are meaningless because I’m a dental student. My interest in this thread is that my brother is an MD currently PGY-2. I gave him a call a few nights back and asked him the same question many of the pre-meds and Meds have been asking on this thread, “Would you do it all over again?” He paused to think about it for about five seconds and said he probably wouldn’t. He said his former career sucked (he was a chemical engineer), and that he had an “illusion” of what medicine really was. He told me that the first two years of medical school kept him in the darkness until he did his rotations during his third year. Unfortunately for him he realized right then that Medicine was not all it was hyped up to be. The television shows showing the “greatness of medicine” (as he so eloquently put it) was not reality. The truth of the matter was much more grim and filled with so much political turmoil that he was seriously considering dropping out (if not for the $100,000 debt he in at the time I think he would have).

I told him that I was feeling the same way about dental school. That it wasn’t worth the ride, this and that. As I reflect on our discussion and the posts made in this thread, I have come to the realization that many of us need to wake up from this “dreamworld” that we are living in. There is no ideal job out there. All careers have their ups and downs, medicine and dentistry being no exception to the norm. The only advice I can give is to make the best of your situations and perhaps find a specialty that best suits the lifestyle that you want to have (I know, I know…not everyone has the grades for rads or derm). Will the grass be greener on the other side for you guys? I hope so, because after all the **** I hear that happens to you poor folks during medical school and residency, you’d think that life would get better.
 
All I know is, when I go to see a doc or a dentist, I hope they at least genuinely care about doing a good job, and that in general they want to help people on some level. I know there is a lot of BS, political and whatnot, and medicine is not a perfect job. But these are professions dealing with real people, and to which these people turn to in times of need, dire or not (excluding malingering, and secondary gain). When I am a doc, I will take my duties seriously, and treat people with respect,(and pretend to with the arses, as much as I can) and try to do my part to ensure that both physicians (through political involvement) and patients get what they need and deserve (but not at the expense of the physician). And I am not ashamed to admit that I want to make as much money as possible doing it. I think physicians earn it.
 
I’ll add my two cents yet they are meaningless because I’m a dental student. My interest in this thread is that my brother is an MD currently PGY-2.

Just out of curiosity, what field is your brother going into?
 
All I know is, when I go to see a doc or a dentist, I hope they at least genuinely care about doing a good job, and that in general they want to help people on some level. I know there is a lot of BS, political and whatnot, and medicine is not a perfect job. But these are professions dealing with real people, and to which these people turn to in times of need, dire or not (excluding malingering, and secondary gain). When I am a doc, I will take my duties seriously, and treat people with respect,(and pretend to with the arses, as much as I can) and try to do my part to ensure that both physicians (through political involvement) and patients get what they need and deserve (but not at the expense of the physician). And I am not ashamed to admit that I want to make as much money as possible doing it. I think physicians earn it.

And I'm sure so will everyone else on here do the best job they can do. But the question was whether it was worth it or not to go through the trouble of medical school as it relates to politics of medicine and everything else that goes along with the actual act of treating patients.
 
And I'm sure so will everyone else on here do the best job they can do. But the question was whether it was worth it or not to go through the trouble of medical school as it relates to politics of medicine and everything else that goes along with the actual act of treating patients.

Oh, sorry! I tend to be melodramatic!! :oops: In that case, :idea: we must change the face of medical-political brough-ha-ha! Make it bow down, and serve our wishes!! We must get the insurance companies and the gov't to march to our tune, by becoming Physicians United for the Common Good, and Willing to Kick Some Arsehole Arse!!! Yeeeaahhhh!!!!!!! :thumbup:
 
Man, I somehow cant believe what I read. While I honestly didnt read the whole thread just this page makes me wonder. Im a PGY-1.6 :D, who did management consulting, and some VC work prior to going to MD school. Looking back at it if not for the loans and debt I have I would have no regrets.

I firmly believe that too many people go into medicine for the wrong reasons. All this silly pre-med thinking of saving the world, not caring about money or just the desire to be called doctor are all silly. Ill tell you this much if you want to get rich go to law school. Starting salaries are 145K (more than a lot of Peds docs) in Chicago and more in NYC and SF. Is it easy? NO way. My wife went to U of Chicago law, worked at a law firm and is now a law prof. She worked her tail off at the law firm. I despise lawyers but big firm jobs arent paying you simply because you have a JD. You earn your money.

If medicine paid 60K I would never have left my job. I truly love what I do (EM) and I wasnt sure I would be able to say that during intern yr. Sure there are ups and downs but for people who never worked an honest job in their lives this is shocking. Medicine is hard work but it is rewarding. I think the other reason why people are so miserable is that even once they have the MD they expect people to swoon around them when they walk into a room. I dont have those same delusions. Im just a guy who knows something about medicine and ill try to help you best I can, i dont enter with a feeling of the king has entered bow down before my presence. Many go into Derm, ENT, or other very competetive fields and figure out they hate it. Many go into these fields because they are "smart" and it would be a "waste" if they went into IM, Peds, Path etc. (I mention those fields cause i know people that this happened to)....

Medicine is great if your expectations are tempered and if you dont allow medicine to become your whole life. Medicine will never love you back, go on vacation with you and wont ever have kids with you.
 
Oh, sorry! I tend to be melodramatic!! :oops: In that case, :idea: we must change the face of medical-political brough-ha-ha! Make it bow down, and serve our wishes!! We must get the insurance companies and the gov't to march to our tune, by becoming Physicians United for the Common Good, and Willing to Kick Some Arsehole Arse!!! Yeeeaahhhh!!!!!!! :thumbup:

You realize most docs dont agree on MANY issues related to medicine including universal healthcare, medical training and a long list of others.
 
You realize most docs dont agree on MANY issues related to medicine including universal healthcare, medical training and a long list of others.

Kill the dissenters!!!!!


(or at least push them around in a circle)
 
Please don't flame me for bringing it back. I don't understand why this thread wasn't made a sticky despite multiple requests. This by far is the most interesting thread to many on these fora. Could you guys, those who had professiomal life, before career change, or an advancement from the other medical fields, post here more? Please don't let it die.

Thanks :)
 
If this thread lasts another 2 years, and the same people are still saying they hate medicine and MBAs have it better, I am going to start asking the question "why the hell have you not quit, secured an MBA, and gone to live the better life all this while?".
 
If this thread lasts another 2 years, and the same people are still saying they hate medicine and MBAs have it better, I am going to start asking the question "why the hell have you not quit, secured an MBA, and gone to live the better life all this while?".

You know and I partially agree with you despite the issue of debt because it has been done by some. I was reading a blog called med school hell and I don't know if that guy posts here though he does often read SDN. But at any rate, I was reading his blog and I saw that he finished med school and then started a business of his own and is doing pretty well enough to help pay off the debt. I think there are alternatives if you really try to look out there but a lot of people don't nd by that time they've come too far that they don't want to just up and back out.
 
If this thread lasts another 2 years, and the same people are still saying they hate medicine and MBAs have it better, I am going to start asking the question "why the hell have you not quit, secured an MBA, and gone to live the better life all this while?".


It's hard to read into every post on this thread. There are only "few" here. But I've looked into MBAs myself. They don't come exactly free, and could lend you some real debt too. From what I understood if you take B-school/MBA approach you gotta go to like top 20 schools in the Country. That could be even more expensive and difficult to get in than medical school. but I really would love to hear the perspective of those who had gone through it. Especially nurses who went to medical school. Was it really worth it, especially when you weren't a hospital nurse, but worked for a risk management in the national insurance company?
 
I don't understand why this thread wasn't made a sticky despite multiple requests.

It's simple really. It's a conspiracy. If people get discouraged from going into medicine, then fewer people will vist SDN. If eyeball traffic decreases, then the market value of SDN decreases. That means Lee Burnett won't be able to buy that island in the Pacific he's been looking at. :smuggrin:
 
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if you asked other professionals; lawyers, hairdressers, firemen, salespeople; people working in burger King; do you think they would 'do it all again'? ... maybe not, maybe. Probably you would get a variety of answers, like this thread seems to have generated.
Medicine, and being a doctor, is both amazing and horrific; monkey-scut-work and 'brainsurgery' (literally); financially grippling and financially rewarding... all balanced and bundled into a package. It is not worse and not better than any other job that people choose to partake in. As long as you are interested in the human body/mind and how it works then I say go for it... like I did. Currently half way through pediatric intern-year. I'm occasionally loving it and occasionally hating it. To me there is no other job i would rather be doing. But it is just a job, and then I get on with the rest of my life!
 
if you asked other professionals; lawyers, hairdressers, firemen, salespeople; people working in burger King; do you think they would 'do it all again'? ... maybe not, maybe. Probably you would get a variety of answers, like this thread seems to have generated.
Medicine, and being a doctor, is both amazing and horrific; monkey-scut-work and 'brainsurgery' (literally); financially grippling and financially rewarding... all balanced and bundled into a package. It is not worse and not better than any other job that people choose to partake in. As long as you are interested in the human body/mind and how it works then I say go for it... like I did. Currently half way through pediatric intern-year. I'm occasionally loving it and occasionally hating it. To me there is no other job i would rather be doing. But it is just a job, and then I get on with the rest of my life!

Thanks for your response. The only thing I can see how you can compare it to other professional careers, but not something that requires a vocational school, or may be not training at all. I think the title of this thread says it all. What many people who are just to embark on that journey want to know is, I guess, Was it really worth the time, money, human sacrifice etc? I think medicine is by far the most long, it probably if not most, then one of the most expensive career paths. Couple it with no real money of 3 to 7 years postgraduate training....Well, there are very few other careers that require such long and draining road to find out if it's for you. There are not that many you couldn't walk away from either. But I take it as "Yes" in response to the OP question.
Thanks
 
Thanks for your response. The only thing I can see how you can compare it to other professional careers, but not something that requires a vocational school, or may be not training at all. I think the title of this thread says it all. What many people who are just to embark on that journey want to know is, I guess, Was it really worth the time, money, human sacrifice etc? I think medicine is by far the most long, it probably if not most, then one of the most expensive career paths. Couple it with no real money of 3 to 7 years postgraduate training....Well, there are very few other careers that require such long and draining road to find out if it's for you. There are not that many you couldn't walk away from either. But I take it as "Yes" in response to the OP question.
Thanks

YEs exactly.....medical training is ridicuously expensive and long.

In many other countries medical school is free or much less expensive. I dont know why medical school has to be so expensive in this country?? I dont believe the whole its expensive to train a doctor bs. You could do basic science even without any form of real (besides soemone to occasionally answer some questions) instructors.

I can understand clincal sciences being more expensive bc you need some a few MDs/DOs to take time from their practices to teach...but even so with so many residents, interns, 4th years.....I dont imagine it would take 40K a year (or a cumulative 160K) per student of a 200 person class??

Why is it so expensive? Especially with declining salaries.
 
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if you asked other professionals; lawyers, hairdressers, firemen, salespeople; people working in burger King; do you think they would 'do it all again'? ... maybe not, maybe. Probably you would get a variety of answers, like this thread seems to have generated.
Medicine, and being a doctor, is both amazing and horrific; monkey-scut-work and 'brainsurgery' (literally); financially grippling and financially rewarding... all balanced and bundled into a package. It is not worse and not better than any other job that people choose to partake in. As long as you are interested in the human body/mind and how it works then I say go for it... like I did. Currently half way through pediatric intern-year. I'm occasionally loving it and occasionally hating it. To me there is no other job i would rather be doing. But it is just a job, and then I get on with the rest of my life!

I think the discussion is just too complex for a lot of you. Medical training, that thing which should make any rational person think twice before undertaking, sucks because the hours are long, the pay is terrible, and sleep deprivation is both routine and encouraged.

Ask yer' by-God hairdresser if she's cutting hair for thirty hours straight every fourth day for no extra money whatsoever and if she ever takes more than one weekend off in a month.

Let's not get all metaphysical here.
 
YEs exactly.....medical training is ridicuously expensive and long.

In many other countries medical school is free or much less expensive. I dont know why medical school has to be so expensive in this country?? I dont believe the whole its expensive to train a doctor bs. You could do basic science even without any form of real (besides soemone to occasionally answer some questions) instructors.

I can understand clincal sciences being more expensive bc you need some a few MDs/DOs to take time from their practices to teach...but even so with so many residents, interns, 4th years.....I dont imagine it would take 40K a year (or a cumulative 160K)??

Why is it so expensive? Especially with declining salaries.

Higher education is a scam set up to seperate suckers from the government money to which they have access. Tuition goes up every year everywhere because most universities and medical schools are uncontrolled bureaucratic wolf-packs which will devour whatever sheep the government supplies.
 
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Higher education is a scam set up to seperate suckers from the government money to which they have access. Tuition goes up every year everywhere because most universities and medical schools are uncontrolled bureaucratic wolf-packs which will devour whatever sheep the government supplies.

Took the words straight out of my mouth.
 
Higher education is a scam set up to seperate suckers from the government money to which they have access. Tuition goes up every year everywhere because most universities and medical schools are uncontrolled bureaucratic wolf-packs which will devour whatever sheep the government supplies.

:laugh: :laugh:

Yeah I think universities are a business even at the undergraduate level. NRA brings up a point in comparing medical education to other countries.

Other countries also don't require a full undergraduate education before med school which begs the question of why this country makes a lot of professional programs require years of undergraduate work before going onto med school.
 
It's simple really. It's a conspiracy. If people get discouraged from going into medicine, then fewer people will vist SDN. If eyeball traffic decreases, then the market value of SDN decreases. That means Lee Burnett won't be able to buy that island in the Pacific he's been looking at. :smuggrin:

haha, then lets just keep bumping it :thumbup:
 
Many docs work these hours, but how much could they control them if they chose?
 
Very interesting thread. I'm currently MS4, and will start internship in a few months; yes I am just starting out and lack experience. To answer the original post, I think I would go to medical school again. I went to a state medical school, and was very frugal with my loans (only borrowed what i needed, plus school grant/aid packages, and informal family loans that I intend to pay back to cover up loose ends), so I am sure that my less-than-average debt plays a role in my opinion.

Personally, I came from a single parent home, and my mom worked in a restaurant 6 days a week and I was a latch-key kid who took care of myself. When my mom open her own store, I spent summers working 13 hour days/7 days a week on my feet on the register and cooking. The store was in a bad part of town, so we had to deal with ignorant racist BS, constant vandalism, etc. Police were rarely helpful. I also delivered food too, so that meant driving around in rain, sleet, and snow. (I also tip well because of this experience.)

Residency will suck thats for sure and have longer hours, but a job is a job. Furthermore, residency is training - no one stays a resident forever - and I am confident that being a physician will be far more rewarding than working in a restaurant.

That being said, I have also have friends and family in many walks of life, not just the restaurant life to compare. I realize that I highlight only the bad and realize there are positives in these jobs - but these negatives are enough to make me think twice about them.

academia - A former college roommate, in doctorate program for Mathematics - studies 12 hours a day and working on a thesis. I also know of another person in grad school, where a colleague hi-jacked his idea for a thesis. There is also a lot of political back-stabbing in academia as well.

computer/IT - I personally would never do that job in a million years. But my cousin who has this job is so low key and likes it. However, it took him 3 years to find a job. He went into college in 1999 when high tech was booming and graduated in 2003, when it was next to impossible to find a job. That's not the job security I want.

MBA - I have a cousin with an MBA and working in marketing now. formerly a financial consultant. She worked three years in the finance world, and basically lived out of suitcases and hotel rooms for three years and regularly worked 14 hour days. Did an MBA at a USNews "top 5" program, and built up sizeable debt. Living in NYC and finds current job unfulfilling. I also wouldn't do this job anyway.

entrepreneur - a friend who's a college grad who started his own company in making and designing kitchen cabinets. I haven't seen him in two years because he moved to FL and is basically married to his job and works his ass off. We talk once in a while, and his schedule is basically 14/hr day 7 days a week, because he is just starting out and trying to cut costs. I don't know about the future, but presently he is very stressed and working HARD.

restaurant industry - cousin (college grad interested in gourmet food) who worked in a high end restaurant (featured on Gourmet magazine - not your mom and pop joint), worked his way up to the meat station. When I saw him over the past holidays, his forearms were marked up with scars from burns from the ovens and grills. Also works like a dog. He quit and is looking to start his own business. He personally loves his job, but again, not for me.

Teaching - I have friends that are elementary school teachers, and have to deal with unruly kids, parents who blame them for their kids shortcomings, and administration constraints on how they can teach. Furthermore, a lot of them have to buy supplies with their own money because of budget constraints. (I personally think teachers get nowhere near the level of respect they should be getting.)

Anyways, the point is that every job has BS to deal with. I realize medicine has malpractice, and HMOs, and paperwork, and this and that. I realize that in residency I will be abused. I realize that after med school, residency, and (and hopefully fellowship), I will have lived through my 20s training, and earning little money.

As cliche as it sounds, I think its worth it, because I get to meet and talk to all different people (good and bad) and my main focus was to help them in some way. Seriously, during an ICU rotation, I was polite and professional with the family of my patient. I simply updated information to them on a regular basis and they were so grateful. (I realize that there are bad patients, but not everyone is bad!)

I am not interested in playing around with interest rates, consulting businesses to lay off workers, programming, doing research, etc. I am not interest in pharmacy or dentistry for whatever reason. Furthermore, even if I do primary care, my average salary is around 150k-ish, with pretty good job security. Growing up poor, that is way more than I ever envisioned myself making, seriously.

THERE IS NO PERFECT JOB. Life is hard for everyone. The grass is always greener on the other side.

Bottom line is at least I feel like I can help someone with an MD, with a more than OK salary and good job security.
 
...THERE IS NO PERFECT JOB. Life is hard for everyone. The grass is always greener on the other side.

Bottom line is at least I feel like I can help someone with an MD, with a more than OK salary and good job security...

The point of this thread is not whether there are worse jobs. Of course there are. I can think of a few and I have done a few. The point is whether medicine is worth the effort you guys are going to put into it to arrive, ten year hence, in a career which, to put it plainly, is not even close to what many of you will expect.

By your line of reasoning, I should be happy about my job as hog-slopper because the guy mucking the pens has it worse. Hog-slopping may blow but I didn't exactly invest a lot of time or money training for it.

Sounds like my in-laws. Every time my wife mentions how hard it is to make ends meet on a residents salary they dredge up the Great Depression, 80 ****ing years ago, and how hard they had it.

As for job security, well, who knows what medicine will look like in ten or fifteen years when you folks finally get done. Surgeons in Germany, a modern, prosperous Western nation pull in an average of 60K a year. Maybe you might not feel so hot about your decision if it comes to pass that the people, who is a beast (to quote Alexander Hamilton), decide to slap down them uppity doctors with their totally unjustified six-figger' salaries.
 
And not every job has bull**** to deal with. I had no bull**** to deal with whatsoever when I was a self-employed structural engineer because I was the boss and I made the rules. Other than taxes and keeping my license current, there were very few bureaucratic functions to which I had to attend. Other than billing and keeping accounts (which I did on a simple software package but really could have done on the back of an envelope) I had no JCAHO, no HIPAA, no mandatory diversity training, no Press Ganey, no forms to fill out, no staff meetings, no bickering, no office politics, no nothing.

80 percent of my time was spent on engineering tasks, ten percent on meetings with clients, and the rest on drumming up business.

The only drawback was that the price of freedom was having nothing between me and starvation but enterprise, agressiveness, and skill.

And I could have made close to what a low end Family Practioner or Pediatrician makes for much less effort than I have expended over the last six years...and I almost ended up in Family Practice except that I fought hard to get out of it.
 
The thing about medicine is that no matter how much you can imagine (as a pre-med) what it is like to be a medical student or a practicing doctor, you can never fully appreciate the negative aspects of medical school or practicing medicine until you actually go through it.

I knew a lot of discouraging things about medicine before I became a medical student, but as an outsider its hard to really give it serious appreciation. It's not till you get involved with the culture by actually plunging your foot in do a lot of things get thrown back in your face. And then you also find out a lot of things that no one really bothers to tell you.

It's sad in a way to think that such a noble career comes with a lot of disclaimers

It's even sadder to see how many people decide on entering a career in medicine every year. I guess that's where part of the problem comes in. There's high demand, so all the beauracrats (sp?) from medical school to the insurance companies knows that there's a huge supply of people willing to endure abuse and marginalized returns in order to receive their perceived benefits. Plus, once you're get your foot stuck in quick sand its hard to pull it out - try leaving a job when you have 200K debt and a family to take care of, etc. All the demand just makes you an indentured servant content with scraps while everyone else jacks up their demands and reduces the compensation.

Anyways this rambling and run-on sentences aside, I'm not sure that I wouldn't do this again. It's one of the few things that interest me and that I feel I could do reasonably well in. I don't think I could get bored of this career (but maybe burnt-out due to all the nonsense that comes with it).

If I ever did have to choose another field, then I'd probably want to be a veterinarian. I'd still be dealing wth the principles of medicine - which interests me - but I'd be applying it to animals.
 
No, no, no. It's not the specialty that is so telling, it's the place you are in your training. A FOURTH YEAR STUDENT!? Give me a break. You haven't even gone through internship yet. Do you think your student rotations are reality? It will ALL become routine soon enough. You will probably laugh at that post a few years from now. You just haven't been abused enough yet. And believe me, ER docs feel the pain. I'm glad you're so positive right now, you should be. I was too. No, it is more a function of time than anything. That's where the patterns would emerge. Med student = no experience = positive outlook.
Attending = too much experience = sh$tty outlook. :laugh:


Roy -
I have not even started med school yet but worked in hospital and private practice as asst for 4 years and you are 100% correct.

The immense amount of bullsh*t in the form of paperwork, patients...who lie and lie, and have no earthly concept of the magnitude of knowledge the MD is applying to their problems (oftentimes self-induced) is enough to wear down the most benevolent of MDs. That doesn't even mention the ridiculous amount of debt, constant pressures of potential suits, crappy pay for the hours, and lest I say, the need to deal with staff personalities. So, you M4s stay optomistic b/c you'll need it.

I am not attempting to prevent anyone from getting into school. I just see why med schools want to accept people young and idealistic - they don't know enough about life and real medicine in general to jump ship. I wonder how long schools will keep exhaulting medicine as the most coveted career. I know many junior analysts in IT co's making 200K+ easy, with potential for much more. And, they party a lot.

With that being said, for all those who are truly cut out for medicine (and those who stick with it b/c 'its too late now,' god bless you and wish you the best. How about you educate yourself a bit to change the circumstances of medicine. After all, there is a MD shortage - so, you can wield some power/leverage. JMHO.
 
Ohhh, How dare I revive it? :p;) But no...I cannot let it die...not on my watch :smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin:

Let's see if we've got any more contributors, shall we? :eek::laugh ;)

Go new interns and residents go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I was luckily enough to have multiple members of my family in healthcare. When I was born and throughout my childhood, medicine was rockin and everybody and their mother (and because of their mother perhaps) wanted to go into it. This was back when the cardiothoracic surgeons could make an absolute killing. But time marched on. My mom burned out and quit as an OR nurse to pursue an MBA. My father did well in patent law in the 90s, although I wouldn't do law either. As some people have said corporate world is a nightmare-not unlike that first season of House with that dipwad boss Vogler. My mother's brother was more heavily invested in the medical field- trained as a general surgeon, but as he told me, said it was a sheatty lifestyle and went to train in cardiothoracic surgery after several years, not much less stress but he made a killing until the recent decade where he's seen his pay dwindle, like sand through his fingers. I used to like coffee, like a fine wine connoiseur, until I came to depend on it. Coming from a relatively good undergrad, I saw people start off as lowly analysts on Wall Streets as I entered medical school, to by the time I was starting residency already having earned MBAs and fancy job titles, high salaries, a leg up on their retirement plan, partners in law firms, owners of their own businesses, with people working under them even while my job was comparable to a high school volunteer/intern.

That's not to say everything but medicine is an easy road. Climbing the ladder, working 100+ hours at Goldman, burying your ass in research and paperwork as a new associate ain't easy. It's become so hard to make a living in this country. If you want to make good money, medicine isn't necessarily the hardest road to the fat paycheck you're after but when you're living like a grad student for 8-10 years it's definitely the longest. Life ain't easy kids. We can't all be $20 million a picture actors, $200 million dollar tour musicians, etc. No matter what road you choose you'd better be prepared to bust butt; and if you want to earn good money as opposed to just a living you're going to be busting ass and winding up a cynic like me. I love chemistry. Favorite subject in the world. But being a chemist just doesn't pay, not in terms of having a family or being comfortable. I took my interest in science and found a comfortable profession. You might like English and that's great, but most people aren't Stephen King or John Grisham (or more appropriately Michael Crichton). Take your writing and reasoning skills and get into the best law school you possibly can. If you like something, good that's your hobby. If you're good at something and you can find something remotely related to it that pays well, boom, there's your career. Be careful in trying to mix the two.

If I could do it again, I'd probably become a lawyer or a dentist. Law, 3 years postgrad, and I find myself always reading nonfiction and staying abreast of politics. But most likely dentistry-I would've just gotten my DDS and become a generalist, maybe work harder to make the same money I would as a surgeon, but definitely easier in terms of setting hours, still get called doctor, and 5 fewer years of training. Hell, my dentist takes Wednesdays to go hunting.
 
Higher education is a scam set up to seperate suckers from the government money to which they have access. Tuition goes up every year everywhere because most universities and medical schools are uncontrolled bureaucratic wolf-packs which will devour whatever sheep the government supplies.

I agree.

However, I do think that people in general have a real problem with not appreciating what they have. The grass-is-greener-over-there nonsense. Medicine is not perfect, but neither is business, law, engineering, or housewifery. As long as people keep seeking this idealistic utopia they have built up in their minds, they are going to continue to be disappointed, and become embittered.
 
Ohhh, How dare I revive it? :p;) But no...I cannot let it die...not on my watch :smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin:

Let's see if we've got any more contributors, shall we? :eek::laugh ;)

Go new interns and residents go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I was an internal medicine intern last year, my answer would be absolutely not. I would not do it again. I thought that the work was mind-numbingly-boring and primarily for the purpose of documentation rather than healthcare... documenting the same crap day after day whether anything had actually changed or not. Plus, the people had almost uniformly brought their illnesses on themselves and refuse to follow your treatment plans, your feeble attempts to help them, the day they were discharged anyway. I hated getting up in the morning knowing I'd spend my morning racing to write lots of essentially meaningless notes, performing the same unchanged physical exam day after day, writing a few meaningful orders (yes), and rounding until I felt like choking on the barrel of a gun. If medicine had been the only specialty, I would be in law school right now. Luckily I've moved on to greener pastures in anesthesiology. No more endless rounding, searching for charts, following up on all the orders the nurse didn't feel like doing, etc, etc. My days are earlier and often longer than last year, but I don't dread going to work. I enjoy it, so my answer would now be yes, I would do it again.
 
I had a reply to this raised-from-the-dead thread a while back... and while I would now temper my words a bit more wisely, I still stand by my basic premise:

Those who go into this profession for the money, or because of their parents, are far more likely to say "no" to the original question.
 
I had a reply to this raised-from-the-dead thread a while back... and while I would now temper my words a bit more wisely, I still stand by my basic premise:

Those who go into this profession for the money, or because of their parents, are far more likely to say "no" to the original question.

How about those who go in without money in mind, but had to start thinking about money when they realized they were 200K in the hole? Will they say yes?

Now throw in a bit of sleep deprivation and low resident income, and that 'no' answer starts to look more realistic.
 
How wbout those who go in without money in mind, but had to start thinking about money when they realized they were 200K in the hole? Will they say yes?

Now throw in a bit of sleep deprivation and low resident income, and that 'no' answer starts to look more realistic.

Of course, for many (if not most) people, it's a multifactorial decision. I doubt many premeds go into medicine JUST for the money, but I doubt many are 100% idealistic either.

I do think that if you feel that medicine is your "true purpose" in life, and that you can't imagine a better career fit for your particular set of talents, life experiences, preferences, etc., then you're more likely to make it through the training process without deep regrets.

I also think it would be SO nice to become financially independent BEFORE entering medical school. There's at least one student in my class who falls into that category. For her medicine really is a labor of love.
 
How wbout those who go in without money in mind, but had to start thinking about money when they realized they were 200K in the hole? Will they say yes?

Now throw in a bit of sleep deprivation and low resident income, and that 'no' answer starts to look more realistic.

Medicine is a business in AMerica.. period.. whehter you like it or not when you are practicing you better make sure you have your mind on money otherwise the hospitals, your employer, the insurance company will bend you over and have their way with you.. its just like saying Im opening up a dry cleaning store or a grocery store but i dont care about the money.. DOnt be stupid. The way medicine is practiced in america doesnt leave room for physician satisfaction. Its almost designed to make you hate it..
 
But to be honest I really don't know what I'd do. The people who interviewed at Goldman and citigroup and jp morgan didn't fare much better than some of the premeds. There's always commercial banking if you want a desk job-but the nature of this business puts a downward pressure on salaries-nowhere near the bucks in investment banking. Law, unless you want to work for the DA you do the partners's grunt work. They give you cases that they know are losing anyway and when you're reviewed for making partner these are used against you anyway. You're not going to go hungry as an engineer, but again, if anything I'd go into business for myself.

If I could do it over again, I'd go back to college and become very very good, personal friends with the people in my class who have been successful :idea:in the corporate world and owning their own businesses and become independently wealthy. Because let's face it, if you want money, the #1 way is as a business owner. You're either the personality type to be a big kahuna in business, or you're the guy who's a close friend of this guy-seen it happen.
 
I’ll add my two cents yet they are meaningless because I’m a dental student. My interest in this thread is that my brother is an MD currently PGY-2. I gave him a call a few nights back and asked him the same question many of the pre-meds and Meds have been asking on this thread, “Would you do it all over again?” He paused to think about it for about five seconds and said he probably wouldn’t. He said his former career sucked (he was a chemical engineer), and that he had an “illusion” of what medicine really was. He told me that the first two years of medical school kept him in the darkness until he did his rotations during his third year. Unfortunately for him he realized right then that Medicine was not all it was hyped up to be. The television shows showing the “greatness of medicine” (as he so eloquently put it) was not reality. The truth of the matter was much more grim and filled with so much political turmoil that he was seriously considering dropping out (if not for the $100,000 debt he in at the time I think he would have).

I told him that I was feeling the same way about dental school. That it wasn’t worth the ride, this and that. As I reflect on our discussion and the posts made in this thread, I have come to the realization that many of us need to wake up from this “dreamworld” that we are living in. There is no ideal job out there. All careers have their ups and downs, medicine and dentistry being no exception to the norm. The only advice I can give is to make the best of your situations and perhaps find a specialty that best suits the lifestyle that you want to have (I know, I know…not everyone has the grades for rads or derm). Will the grass be greener on the other side for you guys? I hope so, because after all the **** I hear that happens to you poor folks during medical school and residency, you’d think that life would get better.


How can you compare dentistry to medicine...stop dramatizing your life. Dentistry is a very highly "lifestyle" favorable field.
 
How can you compare dentistry to medicine...stop dramatizing your life. Dentistry is a very highly "lifestyle" favorable field.

Well, I think he makes a much stronger point against med school than he does his/her/our DDS and DMD brethren.

Incidentally - or not so incidentally - the lifestyle "issue" is what continues to push me far, far away from MD land.
 
Would I do it all over again...yes, but I'd go about it differently.

What I wasn't aware of starting medicine was how it really isn't tailored to be flexible. It's as cutthroat as the business world, but with far less second chances or autonomy.

If one goes into medical school, they should tailor their application to be competitive for one of the highly prestigious and lifestyle-friendly specialties, even if they know nothing about it. Do papers. Kiss up. Be a gunner.

Heck, if by your rotating year you realize that you'd rather be doing Gen Surg than Ophtho, then by all means you can do Gen Surg. Now, vice-versa isn't so easy. It's easier to jump off a mountain than climb up.

So, get on the competitive spots, because if you don't, someone else will.
 
Doesn't the whole competative (or not) thing go in cycles? Nobody really wanted gas 15 years ago. The reimbursement scale may change again (not likely for the better in any specialty). What then? Just being stuck with what you hate, and get crap money for it? I think you've got be able to at least tolerate 9if not love) what you do. Otherwise it becomes a ticket to an "earlier retirement" in the land of 6 feet under (G-D forbid).

Would I do it all over again...yes, but I'd go about it differently.

What I wasn't aware of starting medicine was how it really isn't tailored to be flexible. It's as cutthroat as the business world, but with far less second chances or autonomy.

If one goes into medical school, they should tailor their application to be competitive for one of the highly prestigious and lifestyle-friendly specialties, even if they know nothing about it. Do papers. Kiss up. Be a gunner.

Heck, if by your rotating year you realize that you'd rather be doing Gen Surg than Ophtho, then by all means you can do Gen Surg. Now, vice-versa isn't so easy. It's easier to jump off a mountain than climb up.

So, get on the competitive spots, because if you don't, someone else will.
 
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