If the gov ends up forgiving all student loans...

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Not having non dischargeable debt into my 50s, and having financial flexibility for the rest of my life? All I had to do was live on a budget for 2.5 years. Crazy, I know.

If thats the choice you made, thats great. Looks like your loan was about $150k or less. Sure, if you want to live on $2000 a month budget for 3 years to pay off your loan, more power to you. But that would still be considered a bad investment when you couldve done something else much more beneficial. Especially in income driven repayment era. Unless i suppose you dont want to be working as a pharmacist for that long or just work in general for that long haha

People with 200k+ loans, it would be financially idiotic to try to pay it all off.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[BMBiology]

Bernie is not happening bro

So again, why should tax payers forgive student loans to those who went to graduate school? It is not like they can't pay it off. It is not like they were uneducated and were 18 years old when they decided to apply to a graduate program.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

No income restriction for Bernie’s plan.

There absolutely needs to be a means test if they want to do Bernie's thing.

The whole system needs vastly reworked, really.

 

[angelsplight]

Doubt it will go through. The US needs to take all the money new grads will ever earn.

 

[Wickett]

If thats the choice you made, thats great. Looks like your loan was about $150k or less. Sure, if you want to live on $2000 a month budget for 3 years to pay off your loan, more power to you. But that would still be considered a bad investment when you couldve done something else much more beneficial. Especially in income driven repayment era. Unless i suppose you dont want to be working as a pharmacist for that long or just work in general for that long haha

People with 200k+ loans, it would be financially idiotic to try to pay it all off.

I dont think my route is the only way to go, it just made sense for me. All told, I paid back 169k. I'm not confident high paying jobs in pharmacy are going to be around for another 20+ years to play the IBR roulette game.

IBR working out ok makes a lot of assumptions (will be gainfully employed, no health issues arise for you or your family, program still exists, etc).

I do plan to work, but I dont want to depend on all those aforementioned assumptions to work out. I have too many family members and friends that have to work until they drop dead in their late 70s to want to go that route.

I'm not sure why shedding off non dischargeable debt is a "bad investment." Sure, you can maximize money by investing instead, but you are depending on everything else in life going right. If you want to take that risk, that's cool. I choose not to.

 

[Mad Jack]

So again, why should tax payers forgive student loans to those who went to graduate school? It is not like they can't pay it off. It is not like they were uneducated and were 18 years old when they decided to apply to a graduate program.

See above. Bernie's plan isn't happening and the most likely other candidates all have high income phase outs and forgiveness limits.

 

[BMBiology]

See above. Bernie's plan isn't happening and the most likely other candidates all have high income phase outs and forgiveness limits.

Warren income phase out is between $100,000-$250,000. How do you justify forgiving loans to people who are doing so well in our society...many of them have a graduate/professional degree? I never got a reply from you.

Redirect Notice

Keep in mind only 27% of Americans have a 4 year college degree. Why should high school graduates subsidize doctors, dentists and pharmacists?

 

[Mad Jack]

Warren income phase out is between $100,000-$250,000. How do you justify forgiving loans to people who are doing so well in our society...many of them have a graduate/professional degree? I never got a reply from you.

Redirect Notice

Keep in mind only 27% of Americans have a 4 year college degree. Why should high school graduates subsidize doctors, dentists and pharmacists?

Most taxes are paid by the same doctors, dentists, and pharmacists, so they're really subsidizing themselves. As to the forgiveness, it wouldn't cover the entirety of most professional loans, and would be the biggest boon for those with undergrad loans. Hell, it would barely cover the interest on my loans for three years lol

 

[BMBiology]

Most taxes are paid by the same doctors, dentists, and pharmacists, so they're really subsidizing themselves. As to the forgiveness, it wouldn't cover the entirety of most professional loans, and would be the biggest boon for those with undergrad loans. Hell, it would barely cover the interest on my loans for three years lol

Let me get this right....Americans are already spending trillions on healthcare each year (and rising fast). You think that is not enough and they should provide us with even more subsidies?

How Americans spend much more on health care than they realize

Consumers often do not understand that the cost of their health care is much higher than the out-of-pocket expenses they pay each year, writes columnist Philip Moeller.

www.pbs.org

 

[Mad Jack]

Let me get this right....Americans are already spending trillions on healthcare each year (and rising fast). You think that is not enough and they should provide us with even more subsidies?

How Americans spend much more on health care than they realize

Consumers often do not understand that the cost of their health care is much higher than the out-of-pocket expenses they pay each year, writes columnist Philip Moeller.

www.pbs.org

Oh they should also develop universal coverage and reduce the amount of money going into health care, but that's a totally different discussion

 

[steveysmith54]

Let me get this right....Americans are already spending trillions on healthcare each year (and rising fast). You think that is not enough and they should provide us with even more subsidies?

How Americans spend much more on health care than they realize

Consumers often do not understand that the cost of their health care is much higher than the out-of-pocket expenses they pay each year, writes columnist Philip Moeller.

www.pbs.org

I feel really bad for the healthcare professionals who are making six figures a year, what poor and underprivileged souls; I don't even know how they make thru the day. I think we need to: 1. buy them a mansion in Malibu 2. Buy them a Tesla 3. Provide unlimited back/neck massages

 

[JustFillIt]

I can only imagine the look on BMbiology’s face if all of us idiots had our loans forgiven.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

The loan has a literal negative value on your balance sheet.
Every payment against principle has a positive effect on your net worth.

The student loan is a ball and chain on a pharmacist. Especially in a dying profession like pharmacy.

And yes, you can "forget" about it, put it on a 25 year REPAYE whatever, many don't want to live like that life, being beholden to a government program for longer than they've been alive.

I've noticed that pharmacy has the following bimodal personal financial distribution, and they are directly related to how much they believe in the profession.
1. Debt Lover - Loans on REPAYE,PAYE,PSLF, 30-year maximum mortgage and leased entry level luxury SUVs (Lexus, Audi). Totally went to residency. Believes pharmacy will last forever.
2. The squirrel - Maxes out 401k/403b, IRA, HSA, 10 year mortgage for 1x income, drives an entry level Honda Civic or Ford Fusion. Sees pharmacy hurdling towards the abyss.

It will only have a positive effect on your net worth once its all paid off. Until then, all debt will give you a negative net worth. (Unless if you make more than how much you owe). But thats not the point. Unless you can actually pay it all off with in a reasonable amount of time (if you owe more than 200k+ then no), trying to pay off your loan is a financial suicide.

Say you owe 200k-250k. That will take you 10-15 years, $1500-$2000 a month. A normal full time pharmacist makes $7000-8000 per month after taxes. You would be putting in 25% of your income for the next decade. Not sure how thats possible if youre gonna have a family and try to have a normal life. Even if you try to be frugal with your house and car, you would have a difficult time with savings or any investments for your retirement.

Again, if youre able to do it, then more power to you. But as many have pointed out, there are ways to be financially savvy and smart with your loans.

 

[BMBiology]

I can only imagine the look on BMbiology’s face if all of us idiots had our loans forgiven.

I am still living in your head

 

[alpha12]

If pocohontas warren wins the primary i will be voting for trump. I would vote for any dem but not warren.

 

[alpha12]

She will not be elected. Live in a trailer park and pay off your loans asap. That's what I'm doing now. I'm eating ramen noodles and paying 1.5k towards my loans every week.

I applaud that you are paying your debt but I feel if a dem wants to forgive it anyway you should enjoy life and not pay it until after the election. I disagree with loan forgiveness but if it happens might as well take advantage of it.

 

[BMBiology]

I'm struggling with the fact that I have enough money saved to wipe out a large portion of my loans, but really don't want to deplete my savings in this job market. If forgiveness passes then I'm the fool who didn't graduate then buy a house, new car, vacations, year off to "find myself" and put myself on the 30 year plan. It really punishes us who are trying to be responsible which is why I don't support it. I do however support drastically lowering interest rates. I think that's a good compromise that doesn't piss anyone off. My federal loans are 6.8%, ridiculous.

Has anyone used the Elizabeth Warren calculator on her campaign website to see what her plan would forgive? I would have 34K forgiven. What if I paid 34K of my own money then a year later her plan passes!? I would be beyond pissed. Even if she got elected how long would it take for her law to pass? Years later or into a second term? I don't have faith so will probably be the sucker who lived like a pauper to pay my loans off ASAP.

Not any time soon....expect a court challenge:

The Supreme Court could stop Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax dead in its tracks

The proposal, which would raise trillions of dollars to fund a host of social programs that are key to the Massachusetts senator's agenda, would awaken an area of constitutional law that has lain dormant for decades, experts say.

www.cnbc.com

 

[trailerpark]

New grads are making less than 100K with lower starting salaries and decreased hours. Most would qualify for all 50K of Warren’s forgiveness plan.

 

[owlegrad]

This reminds me of when people complain that addicts shouldn't get free Narcan if diabetics can't get free insulin. Somehow the solution is not to improve access to insulin but to limit access to narcan. As though if one group gets anything that automatically makes some other group of people worse off.

Just because someone else gets loan forgiveness doesn't make you any worse off than you were before. Why not be mad at tax breaks for corporations instead of loan forgiveness?

I do think UBI is fundamentally more "fair" for this reason though. And like others are saying how does loan forgiveness work for future borrowers? A blank check to borrow as much as possible in the hopes it gets forgiven? I mean I could go register for classes right now and max out those student loans for some spending cash if that's the case.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I think loan forgiveness is a bad idea for all the reasons mentioned in this thread, but I think interest forgiveness on the loans and/or lowering the interest rate to a more negligible rate would make much more sense.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Sometimes you're the shaft, sometimes you get shafted. That's life, people should really learn to roll with the punches and not play the what if game. Other people now being better off in a way you would have appreciated does not make you worse off, it only makes you upset because of potentialities.

It does if taxes are increased to pay for loan forgiveness

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I dont think my route is the only way to go, it just made sense for me. All told, I paid back 169k. I'm not confident high paying jobs in pharmacy are going to be around for another 20+ years to play the IBR roulette game.

IBR working out ok makes a lot of assumptions (will be gainfully employed, no health issues arise for you or your family, program still exists, etc).

I do plan to work, but I dont want to depend on all those aforementioned assumptions to work out. I have too many family members and friends that have to work until they drop dead in their late 70s to want to go that route.

I'm not sure why shedding off non dischargeable debt is a "bad investment." Sure, you can maximize money by investing instead, but you are depending on everything else in life going right. If you want to take that risk, that's cool. I choose not to.

Right so as i predicted, your debt was in that somewhat reasonable amount.

Not sure about working until 70s but i do want to work until my retirement age which should be around 65. Thats 30 years from now. Considering my loans will be forgiven in 25, i think my plan may work out.

I can see your concern of profession’s future being in jeopardy and not wanting to risk it but what choice do we actually have? How many pharmacists can actually just peace out and find another profession?

I dont know the exact history of labor force but i dont think there has been a profession where the compensation has dropped so much that an entire profession has disappeared. Pharmacy world seems bad now because of PBMs mainly which can be adjusted. There are several legislators on state and federal level that are trying to make things right. Hopefully we can get this straightened out in the near future.

All in all, i think we are going to be okay ✌️

 

[Mad Jack]

It does if taxes are increased to pay for loan forgiveness

They don't need to be increased- the government has already paid out the money for the direct loans. All they need to do is not collect on them. It's like if you loaned a friend five bucks and decided to not collect- you don't need anyone else to pay you the five bucks, it's just a few dollars you're never getting back. (This wouldn't help private borrowers)

 

[PharmDBro2017]

I think interest forgiveness on the loans and/or lowering the interest rate to a more negligible rate would make much more sense.

Agreed.

 

[BMBiology]

They don't need to be increased- the government has already paid out the money for the direct loans. All they need to do is not collect on them. It's like if you loaned a friend five bucks and decided to not collect- you don't need anyone else to pay you the five bucks, it's just a few dollars you're never getting back. (This wouldn't help private borrowers)

That is not how economic work. Forgiving all student loan debt would add $1.4T to the national debt. There is going to be a point when the federal government can’t keep borrowing and would need to increase taxes and/or cut spending in order to pay for the debt. One way or another, the taxpayers will pay for it.

@ at least Bernie is honest...he wants to tax financial transactions which means if you have a 401 k, you will be paying for it.

 

[BMBiology]

This reminds me of when people complain that addicts shouldn't get free Narcan if diabetics can't get free insulin. Somehow the solution is not to improve access to insulin but to limit access to narcan. As though if one group gets anything that automatically makes some other group of people worse off.

Just because someone else gets loan forgiveness doesn't make you any worse off than you were before. Why not be mad at tax breaks for corporations instead of loan forgiveness?

I do think UBI is fundamentally more "fair" for this reason though. And like others are saying how does loan forgiveness work for future borrowers? A blank check to borrow as much as possible in the hopes it gets forgiven? I mean I could go register for classes right now and max out those student loans for some spending cash if that's the case.

But debt is never erased..it gets transferred from students to tax payers. We all will be paying for it.

Do you see why people are against it? After you have worked hard to pay off your loans, you will also be paying off Joe’s loans because he can’t do crap with his studio art degree.

 

[Mad Jack]

That is not how economic work. Forgiving all student loan debt would add $1.4T to the national debt. There is going to be a point when the federal government can’t keep borrowing and would need to increase taxes and/or cut spending in order to pay for the debt. One way or another, the taxpayers will pay for it.

@ at least Bernie is honest...he wants to tax financial transactions which means if you have a 401 k, you will be paying for it.

Depends on how it is done. But adding to the deficit doesn't necessarily increase taxes. Regardless, simply rolling back the 2.6 trillion in GOP tax cuts would more than offset the difference.

 

[BMBiology]

Depends on how it is done. But adding to the deficit doesn't necessarily increase taxes. Regardless, simply rolling back the 2.6 trillion in GOP tax cuts would more than offset the difference.

Eventually this debt will need to be repaid. This is not exactly rocket science.

I am all for rolling back Corp tax cuts but why should only some people, including many wealthy working professionals, benefit from it? Why give preferential treatment to student loan debt and not other forms of debt like medical, auto, home debt?

 

[BMBiology]

Right so as i predicted, your debt was in that somewhat reasonable amount.

Not sure about working until 70s but i do want to work until my retirement age which should be around 65. Thats 30 years from now. Considering my loans will be forgiven in 25, i think my plan may work out.

I can see your concern of profession’s future being in jeopardy and not wanting to risk it but what choice do we actually have? How many pharmacists can actually just peace out and find another profession?

I dont know the exact history of labor force but i dont think there has been a profession where the compensation has dropped so much that an entire profession has disappeared. Pharmacy world seems bad now because of PBMs mainly which can be adjusted. There are several legislators on state and federal level that are trying to make things right. Hopefully we can get this straightened out in the near future.

All in all, i think we are going to be okay ️

When did you graduate? The last 10 years have been a boom for the economy and the stock market but it goes in a cycle.

You don’t really know how bad things can get. You don’t really know how much debt you can truly handle. You will find out when everything goes in reverse.

 

[Mad Jack]

Eventually this debt will need to be repaid. This is not exactly rocket science.

I am all for rolling back Corp tax cuts but why should only some people, including many wealthy working professionals, benefit from it? Why give preferential treatment to student loan debt and not other forms of debt like medical, auto, home debt?

Because student loan debt is far less productive than most other debt and people shouldn't be shackled with debt just to better themselves in life.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Because student loan debt is far less productive than most other debt and people shouldn't be shackled with debt just to better themselves in life.

Very true and 100% agreed. Result of student loans is being put right back into economy.

Same reason why high school is free. South Koreans used to have tuitions for middle and high schools but got rid of them as their economy was able to afford free public education. Forgiving student loans would be kind of the same?

 

[steveysmith54]

Debt is debt, as others mentioned- it just doesn’t go away- gets transferred to another entity. Doesn’t matter what kind of debt.

the issue is how do you keep loan forgiveness sustainable? the schools are raising tuition every year, how do we keep finding the money to pay these schools ?

 

[AM77]

Regardless if all student loans are forgiven, someone has to pick up the tab which would be the American tax payers. Surprise! Surprise! Nothing’s for free in life. You really only have to choices. Either you pay off your student loans or you keep paying everyone else’s student loans for the rest of your life. That’s how they do it in Iceland which is a real life example.

 

[BMBiology]

Because student loan debt is far less productive than most other debt and people shouldn't be shackled with debt just to better themselves in life.

People shouldn’t be shackled in debt for medical care, for buying a car so they can drive to work, for buying a house so their family can have a roof over their heads. Who are you to say your debt is more important?

This is also problem with student loan forgiveness. There is always a sob story as to why your debt should be forgiven but not others. If higher education is a human right then why isn’t transportation, food, medical care, housing also a human right? That is why I support Andrew Yang $1000 freedom dividend. Every citizen gets it and you can spend it on whatever you want.

 

[JustFillIt]

People shouldn’t be shackled in debt for medical care, for buying a car so they can drive to work, for buying a house so their family can have a roof over their heads. Who are you to say your debt is more important?

This is also problem with student loan forgiveness. There is always a sob story as to why your debt should be forgiven but not others. If higher education is a human right then why isn’t transportation, food, medical care, housing also a human right? That is why I support Andrew Yang $1000 freedom dividend. Every citizen gets it and you can spend it on whatever you want.

No... you support yangs garbage because it benefits you and your situation. Such hypocrisy..

You want the “freedom dividend” because your washed up and unemployable.

Personally I support total student loan forgiveness because it will benefit me and my situation the most. That’s as honest as I can get.. how will that be paid for? Who knows - inflate the currency, that sounds good to me.

 

[Nguyen]

No... you support yangs garbage because it benefits you and your situation. Such hypocrisy..

You want the “freedom dividend” because your washed up and unemployable.

Personally I support total student loan forgiveness because it will benefit me and my situation the most. That’s as honest as I can get.. how will that be paid for? Who knows - inflate the currency, that sounds good to me.

Calm down kiddo. For the same reason you want student loan debt forgiveness because it'll benefit your situation.

 

[BMBiology]

No... you support yangs garbage because it benefits you and your situation. Such hypocrisy..

You want the “freedom dividend” because your washed up and unemployable.

Personally I support total student loan forgiveness because it will benefit me and my situation the most. That’s as honest as I can get.. how will that be paid for? Who knows - inflate the currency, that sounds good to me.

How does the freedom dividend only benefit me and not you? If you are a U.S citizen you would get it too.

I, personally, do not want this country to be a socialist country. That is the direction we are heading if we do not provide a floor for our citizens. It is capitalism where everyone does not start at zero. You can spend it on whatever you think is best for you and your family.

 

[allantois]

If you think Bernie isn’t getting elected, Yang is sure as heck not get elected

I’m surprised anyone supports his nonsense proposals. He’s in the likes of Ray Kurzweil and other tech dystopian lunatics

 

[Dbric36]

Who's paying for the freedom dividend?

 

[BMBiology]

Who's paying for the freedom dividend?

Andrew yang explained it here:

 

[Dbric36]

Andrew yang explained it here:

Sorry, not watching that,, haha

 

[owlegrad]

Sorry, not watching that,, haha

So your question was rhetorical?

 

[Dbric36]

Of course I know who's paying.

 

[Mad Jack]

People shouldn’t be shackled in debt for medical care, for buying a car so they can drive to work, for buying a house so their family can have a roof over their heads. Who are you to say your debt is more important?

This is also problem with student loan forgiveness. There is always a sob story as to why your debt should be forgiven but not others. If higher education is a human right then why isn’t transportation, food, medical care, housing also a human right? That is why I support Andrew Yang $1000 freedom dividend. Every citizen gets it and you can spend it on whatever you want.

I also don't think housing should be unaffordable and I am a big fan of universal health care and public transportation sooooo

 

[confettiflyer]

So again, why should tax payers forgive student loans to those who went to graduate school? It is not like they can't pay it off. It is not like they were uneducated and were 18 years old when they decided to apply to a graduate program.

Because the tax system has always rewarded the rich and educated, duh. Don’t get all lefty liberal on me now!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[confettiflyer]

I've noticed that pharmacy has the following bimodal personal financial distribution, and they are directly related to how much they believe in the profession.
1. Debt Lover - Loans on REPAYE,PAYE,PSLF, 30-year maximum mortgage and leased entry level luxury SUVs (Lexus, Audi). Totally went to residency. Believes pharmacy will last forever.
2. The squirrel - Maxes out 401k/403b, IRA, HSA, 10 year mortgage for 1x income, drives an entry level Honda Civic or Ford Fusion. Sees pharmacy hurdling towards the abyss.

I’m the debt lover that maxed out their retirement and HSA.

Does a Tesla 3 count as luxury?



Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[DrVader]

Agr

Agreed. There is no reason for the loan interest to be at 7% when it’s backed by a government guarantee. It’s also the better compromise

The problem with forgiving all student loans is that the college will continue to do business as normal. The colleges put is into this mess. They charge whatever they want, spend lavishly on dorms, rec centers, have professional sport teams. Imagine going to the companies that caused the 2008 market crash and just give them a pile of money.

 

[allantois]

Some schools should be outright sued for defrauding the public and government. Some schools that come to mind are Midwestern, NYU, USC, Caribbean med schools, and all for-profits, plus many others

 

[Tinyhandz]

Student loan debt wasn't even an issue up until the Federal Government gave out loans to college students. This supposed "benign" act is why college prices sky rocketed. Before people were able to pay for college by working a part time job. As a result of federal loans, colleges have gotten bigger and bigger, add more administrators than professors. Colleges have made their buildings bigger, adder more amenities, etc.

Look at the universities in Europe. They are much smaller, have less faculty, etc.

Now the issue is to make college free would be too expensive, since U.S colleges are bigger than European and thus more expensive, but taking out federal loans would disrupt the whole educational system.

 

[Tinyhandz]

You support a plan that would cost

This is why I support Andrew Yang’s $1000/month freedom dividend for every U.S citizens over 18. You can spend it on student loan, healthcare, housing. It is up to you to determine your priority.

You support a plan that is not finanacially feasible at all. It will cost 3 Trillion dollars, in other words the current U.S budget of 3.42 Trillion(in revenue) or 4 trillion with the deficit. You would have to stop all functions of government to enact such a plan. And all for just $12000 a year.

He wants to fund with a National Sales tax of 10% but economists that have crunched the number say the number has to be closer to 20% on top of other taxes. All for this and it's not like $1000 will go very far.