Dental If I was dismissed from pharmacy school, is there hope for dental school admission?

[Mr.Smile12]

I am in a bit of a dilemma. I was academically dismissed from pharmacy school a while back where I completed nearly half of the program.
I was always deciding between dental and pharmacy, but right after undergrad I was pretty burned out and didn't want to take the DAT/pursue the dental career seriously so I opted for pharmacy and got into a few schools even with a halfhearted pcat score. After I started attending, a mixture of immaturity, naivety, and irresponsibility led me to be academically dismissed. I also discovered throughout the schooling and my pharm interning job that I disliked pharmacy and the job culture.

My dismissal sparked me to pursue dentistry. So after leaving, I took the DAT (AA 20) and enrolled in a traditional masters biology program (more so focused on research, not an smp, bc the masters is designed to be part-time for working individuals). Knowing this, I’m currently also doing upp-div DIY post-baccs on top of my masters classes, and have been continuing working within the dental field.

But my pharm graduate grades killed my Aadsas graduate gpa and overall/science gpa in general (last semester of pharm school contained 3 F’s).
I’m going to be done with my masters in June 2020 (currently maintaining a 4.0) and have achieved pretty high scores in my post baccs.

I didn’t really explain my situation in my app (only mentioned that I left pharm school and with inadequate grades, but that I understand I’m accountable for it and working hard to patch things up) but this is my second cycle applying (submit my app ~9/16 (mid-september) and I'm not surprised I’m not hearing anything back.
My gpa now resides at 3.02 cgpa, 2.77sgpa and graduate gpa is 2.77, but my masters itself so far is a 4.0

I'm still afraid my masters isn't as strong as a smp, even with a 4.0, bc it's geared more toward research classes since it's a traditional program.
Moreover, my personal statement didn't focus on my journey bc I didn't want to dwell on my negative past and I wanted to write an experience more dental-related. But, this fall semester, I am taking 6 units masters + 6 units postbacc.
If everything plays out well, I will be at 2.8ish sgpa/grad gpa by December which is still insanely low.
But even if I continue to finish my Masters with a 4.0, my sgpa will only be a 2.9X max.

Is there any hope for me given my situation in this cycle?
Or any hope at all for dentistry? Am I a lost cause?
Sigh

You have posted that you are under 30 previously in public, but the information about your previous attendance to pharmacy school was not disclosed. We'll do what we can to advise you given that information, but I'm seeking a little more insight exactly how long it has been since you were dismissed from pharmacy school.

I can't speak for everyone involved in dental admissions, but it is very important that we know before you make a decision to go to a professional program "why dentistry". Most faculty I know (from my old school) do not look favorably to anyone who was dismissed from another health professions program, and your reasoning (highlighted in the quote) is the major reason why the best selection processes from my perspective truly identify those individuals who have articulated a strong motivation to be a dentist as a player in the health care system. I don't mind if you had prior experience as a pharm tech but being dismissed from pharmacy school to go to dental school doesn't sit well (it's like we feel we're the bachelor/bachelorette who has only given a rose at the end when the top choice(s) didn't accept). How do we know that you won't get similarly disillusioned or have other academic difficulties? Furthermore, the debt load you will have to pay and finance will be much higher because you already spent a year or so tuition of pharmacy school.

If you worked hard to network with dental students and admissions officers, there might be a chance, but the lingering question is going to be asked from the faculty: anyone at the pharmacy school going to positively recommend the candidate if he/she was dismissed for academic reasons?

Being dismissed giving you the freedom to pursue dentistry... well, I am a believer of redemption over time. If your dismissal occurred before you accumulated significant dental observation/shadowing (100+ hours AFTER dismissal), maybe. But you will need to show it in your DAT scores. What we don't see is what your grades were in your preclinical biomedical science courses in pharmacy school, and for many faculty it is the evidence they need to deny further consideration if they don't already know you and your situation.

P.S. You also stated you submitted your application in mid-September. To me that is relatively late, and without knowing your overall DAT scores, unless you have a much-higher-than-20 AA and PAT score, your application might be relegated into the "maybe" zone or may be considered too late after all regular interview spots are taken. Most schools have a backlog of a few hundred to thousand applications to review at this time of the year, so you probably shouldn't expect to hear anything for at least another couple of months (optimistically speaking).

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[Mr.Smile12]

Hi,
It has been 2 yrs since I left.
DAT 20AA: TS 20, PAT 23
Bio 19, GC 21, OC 22, QR 19, RC 18
Shadowed 100+ hrs. since
Pursuing dental assisting certification (will be getting it on Dec.)

As of right now, the only thing I can think of is re-taking the DAT.
or pursuing an SMP after my Masters (much too expensive at this point)

*Edit for the original post above: It wasn't so much that one or the other career was a "second choice". Prior to it all, it was due indecisiveness, burnout, immature mentality, rushing, and passiveness in really making a well-thought out decision/choice. But throughout the process, it was more like the experience made me realize what I wanted and how I had to grow up. Regardless, I understand it was extremely irresponsible.

As for being similarly disillusioned: I have since matured from being a naive 23 yr old, gained work/life experience so I understand more and appreciate the value of hard work and the gift of education. Throughout my journey in this uphill battle where I have disappointed myself, family, and others, I realized the severity/consequences of my actions and definitely will not let another dismissal happen ever again--there's no room for it to happen again, let alone financially.

I called some schools after last cycle to ask what I can do to improve, while some were nice and helpful to soften the blow, others gave more realistic yet harsh, dagger-to-the-heart information. Still, I improved, re-applied; more time has passed and my parents have started telling me to give up because "maybe I'm not meant for dentistry", but I personally have to see my journey to the end because I know this is something I want to do.

In all honesty, my dismissal was mainly attributed to the fact that I wasn't focused on school which was supposed to be my main priority. I was distracted by external things other than school; and at a certain point, the external factors became so overwhelming I didn't know how to handle it by myself. Subconsciously, I knew I wasn't going to pass my last semester there about halfway into it, but I never knew there was a withdrawal option or if there was it was already too late--let alone the possibility of ever being kicked out of school.

But I'm not making any excuses because all of this was my fault and I understand it was my fault, regardless of what happened in the past.
And I understand, I would be screened out even in comparison to someone with similar stats since my history isn't something that would be looked upon favorably.

I'm just trying my best at this point to make-up for everything.

Thank you for your honesty about your situation. Please note that part of my response reflects many deliberations among my faculty on admissions reviews on files similar to yours. What you say is your truth often will still be ignored by faculty who have had experience taking chances on applicants who made those same arguments in the past and still failed to complete the curriculum. This is why networking is crucial. You never know who will be on a committee reviewing your application but you need to get a realistic perspective about that history of admitting similar applicants who share a similar journey.

Your DATs are solid and should not be a hindrance but your GPA and transcripts will be without any additional context. Both your undergraduate and graduate/professional GPA will be low given what you provided here, and that won't help you without some serious help through networking. It sounds like you already received some from your last attempt so I'm interested what constructive feedback you did receive.

The additional problem you face is that you have already tapped into funds earmarked for graduate education for any loan package you get from the federal government so you already have high debt working against you in your credit score. Getting into an SMP will tap into those funds more. I have looked more favorably at applicants who have significantly paid off their educational debt when arguing for a career change (not 100% debt free but a good amount; I don't see credit scores in applicant reviews).

You need a linkage acceptance through a SMP and getting a 3.8+ IMO, and there's no guarantee you'll even get in without networking. That may be your only route to dentistry and you've got to nail A's even into dental school. In the end you must pay your loans back even with higher debt and interest compared to your peers. Your window is not closed but it's very narrow.

Maybe my peers here have a different opinion.

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