I want to be an orthodontist to make more money and have an easier job

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ToothJockey said:
Why not just buy a practice and do tons of ortho? With your high production as an associate, I bet you could definitely hit the 500k mark as an owner GP. Unless orthodontics truly is your passion, financially becoming an owner GP makes more sense imo


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says you, an obvious predent OMFS wannabe.

Im glad for predents who can give dentists/dental students career advice :rolleyes:
 
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averageasian said:
says you, an obvious predent OMFS wannabe.

Im glad for predents who can give dentists/dental students career advice :rolleyes:
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First of all, you don't know me or my career goals

Second, your stats are not even good enough to be flexing them, wipe it off your sig and have some humility

Third, you're right, I shouldn't be giving dentists career advice, I'll refrain from doing so in the future.
 
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We can all calm down. There are a lot of pre-dents that have really cool experiences to share with dentists. A lot of dentists I know went from undergrad and straight to school and to practice with few life experiences outside the norm. Any advice is advice and any knowledge given is something you should appreciate. Life is humbling.
 
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P7898 said:
We can all calm down. There are a lot of pre-dents that have really cool experiences to share with dentists. A lot of dentists I know went from undergrad and straight to school and to practice with few life experiences outside the norm. Any advice is advice and any knowledge given is something you should appreciate. Life is humbling.
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i agree with you there 100%.

There is little a pre-dent can tell dentists/dental students about dentistry and finances though.
 
monkeykey said:
What’s the deal with 2nd molars? Tell the pre-dents. Yeah I get that it’s far back there but what else makes it extra difficult?
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For me, second molars are touch because getting access to the mesial canals are pretty difficult. Hard to angle files into the canals when it's so hard to visualize and see exactly where your files are going.
 
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Why be an orthodontist to make more money? Periodontists rule all.
 
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mmc12 said:
For me, second molars are touch because getting access to the mesial canals are pretty difficult. Hard to angle files into the canals when it's so hard to visualize and see exactly where your files are going.
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Yup, I hate those 2nd molars. It's a nightmare to work on them, especially on patients who have small mouth and limited jaw opening. It's harder to obtain a dry working field in the lower posterior area.
 
011110 said:
I am a GP associate 40 hours per week 250-300k. Associate levels for ortho are similar with a less stressful lifestyle. Owner income is much higher for ortho
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No they aren't. Associate orthos mostly work part-time unless you work for a corporation that rotates you through 5-8 offices per month. Buy a reliable car.
 
011110 said:
If your taking on the addition schooling for ortho you should come out making more than a GP. No one does ortho in dental school to know it’s their passion. Most if not all ortho applicants expect to make more than GPs
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Where are your ortho patients coming from?
 
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Firm said:
No they aren't. Associate orthos mostly work part-time unless you work for a corporation that rotates you through 5-8 offices per month.
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Yes, they have to travel to multiple offices just like other dental specialists. The OS's, endos, pedos and perios actually have to travel to a lot more offices than the orthos. I get 5 days/month at 1 corp office and 6 days/month at another corp office. The OS, who works at the same corp, only gets 2 days/month. So to get the same number of work days as mine, this OS has to travel to more offices.
Firm said:
Buy a reliable car.
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Like a Tesla;). With the self-driving autopilot feature, a 30-60 minute daily trip to work should be a relaxing and enjoyable one. Tesla is getting cheaper. A model 3 now costs less than $50k.
 
monkeykey said:
What’s the deal with 2nd molars? Tell the pre-dents. Yeah I get that it’s far back there but what else makes it extra difficult?
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2nd molars for restorative? Keeping good isolation, access, visualization, 2nd max molar is adjacent to stensen's duct. Jaw in the way with max 2nd's. Usually flared buccally. 2nd man molars - tongue/saliva

2nd molars for endo? Rubber dam clamp (Height of contour of teeth makes it difficult to attach a clamp sometimes), more variable in anatomy ( c-shaped canals, radix, tooth angulation/straight line access (although bending rotaries makes this easier), less room to work in (got 21mm files for that), besides the access, of course.
 
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Hey guys I have a question.. kinda sorta related to the topic but not really. How do orthodontists go about finding jobs after residency? Do corporations hire specialists? Do I have to have some sort of relationship with an orthodontist prior to graduation? If dentists working in corp/private practice could help out with this info i'd appreciate it. Also, is there often a need for specialists in corporations or is that not the case anymore?
 
Cold Front said:
Couple of ortho owner dentists I know are closing their offices this coming week - per their state dental board notice, to delay elective procedures.


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What? Please elaborate. Your state dental board is "suggesting" they temporarily close their practices or are they legally ?!@?! telling the practices to shut down? If the latter ..... holy **** and unbelievable. Due to "elective" procedures? Someone here define "elective procedures" in dentistry. I get it. Ortho stuff is elective. But so are veneers, Crown and Bridge, aligners in the GP office, whitening, prophies, etc. etc. Hopefully the boards are not just picking on ortho.

If their offices are slow due to the virus, and there is no need to stay open .... then understandable. Which sucks btw.

As for the field of orthodontics. Yeah. Not recession proof.
 
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I've been on vacation since last Thursday and won't be back home until tomorrow night. I hope my flight not cancelled since it's a domestic flight. According to my manager, a lot of our patients called and asked if our office would be opened in the next few days. I plan to keep my offices opened but I will make all the parents wait in their cars while their children get their braces adjusted. The corp that I work for will stay opened as well.

I am sure a lot of patients will cancel their appointments. This coronavirus thing definitely hurts many orthodontic offices, including mine. But I still earn a steady income from my corp job. My offices still get the monthly payment checks from patients' insurances. I still get paid while I am on my vacation. I am very lucky to be an orthodontist. Other people are in much worse shape from this national shutdown. It's only temporary. Just like other flu pandemics in the past, this pandemic will go away and the economy will be back to normal again.
 
2TH MVR said:
What? Please elaborate. Your state dental board is "suggesting" they temporarily close their practices or are they legally ?!@?! telling the practices to shut down? If the latter ..... holy **** and unbelievable. Due to "elective" procedures? Someone here define "elective procedures" in dentistry. I get it. Ortho stuff is elective. But so are veneers, Crown and Bridge, aligners in the GP office, whitening, prophies, etc. etc. Hopefully the boards are not just picking on ortho.

If their offices are slow due to the virus, and there is no need to stay open .... then understandable. Which sucks btw.

As for the field of orthodontics. Yeah. Not recession proof.
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This is from my state dental board (And yes, all ortho offices closed to comply with the recommendations until the end of this month).


Please reschedule elective procedures including but not limited to:

· Any cosmetic or aesthetic procedures, such as veneers, teeth bleaching, or cosmetic bonding
· All routine hygiene appointments
· Any orthodontic procedures not including those that relieve pain and infection or restore oral function or are trauma-related
· Initiation of any crowns, bridges, or dentures that do not address or prevent pain or restore normal oral functioning
· Any periodontal plastic surgery
· Extraction of asymptomatic non-carious teeth
· Recall visits for periodontally healthy patients
· Delay all appointments for high risk patients, including ASA 2 and 3 patients, unless it is an emergency


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charlestweed said:
I've been on vacation since last Thursday and won't be back home until tomorrow night. I hope my flight not cancelled since it's a domestic flight. According to my manager, a lot of our patients called and asked if our office would be opened in the next few days. I plan to keep my offices opened but I will make all the parents wait in their cars while their children get their braces adjusted. The corp that I work for will stay opened as well.

I am sure a lot of patients will cancel their appointments. This coronavirus thing definitely hurts many orthodontic offices, including mine. But I still earn a steady income from my corp job. My offices still get the monthly payment checks from patients' insurances. I still get paid while I am on my vacation. I am very lucky to be an orthodontist. Other people are in much worse shape from this national shutdown. It's only temporary. Just like other flu pandemics in the past, this pandemic will go away and the economy will be back to normal again.
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Trump said “this will last until July to August” today.

Yes, ortho appointments fell of a cliff nationwide. But you have a bigger and more immediate problem... expect a big chaos at the airports, and a possible lockdown of your city. San Fransisco just told 7 million people (all their residents) to stay home.


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Cold Front said:
Trump said “this will last until July to August” today.

Yes, ortho appointments fell of a cliff nationwide. But you have a bigger and more immediate problem... expect a big chaos at the airports, and a possible lockdown of your city. San Fransisco just told 7 million people (all their residents) to stay home.


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July to August? How long can people afford to stay out of work? Someone must compensate for this....
 
Cold Front said:
Trump said “this will last until July to August” today.

Yes, ortho appointments fell of a cliff nationwide. But you have a bigger and more immediate problem... expect a big chaos at the airports, and a possible lockdown of your city. San Fransisco just told 7 million people (all their residents) to stay home.


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Yeah, I am more worried about the chaos, food shortage, possible riots and the safety of my family than about my office closures. I fully support this shut down even if it takes until August to completely stop the spread of the spread of the virus. Once the disease is under control, the anxiety will be gone and the economy will recover. Our country will recover much more rapidly than other countries.

I change my mind. I will close all my offices for the rest of this week.....and will decide what to do next week.
 
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charlestweed said:
Yeah, I am more worried about the chaos, food shortage, possible riots and the safety of my family than about my office closures. I fully support this shut down even if it takes until August to completely stop the spread of the spread of the virus. Once the disease is under control, the anxiety will be gone and the economy will recover. Our country will recover much more rapidly than other countries.

I change my mind. I will close all my offices for the rest of this week.....and will decide what to do next week.
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No, our country will not recover from COVID-19 as fast as China and Korea did.

Americans won’t listen to their government as much as the Chinese and Koreans did to their governments. China would kick down doors and force infected people out of their homes and drag them to quarantined areas and hospitals. Those draconian measures actually helped control the spread of the contagion quickly in China - just look at how quickly they flattened the infection rate curve. Many governments applauded China for their efforts in controlling the virus from spreading - even though they didn’t agree with the approach.

You think the US government can do the same?

Never.


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Big Time Hoosier said:
Long term this is gonna kill China’s economy, as many global companies realize they need to diversify their supply chains. No longer will all of the eggs be in one basket.

Big Hoss
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True. However, for the sake of US consumers and their addiction to cheap products, I’m still optimistic China will fair well in the short term. I believe all the tiger nations in Asia look up to China and fuel the world order agenda China is trying to accomplish. We/the US have focused on retreating from being a global influence in recent years, China has stepped forward to replace those key positions. We have been in an isolationism trajectory; building a wall on the south, attacking allies and so forth. China has been doing the opposite; making new friends and investing in the future of developing nations. Anyways... I’m no fan of China, but I clearly see their rise to the largest economy in the world and everyone wanting a piece of that action in our lifetime is the world to see.


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Cold Front said:
China has been doing the opposite; making new friends and investing in the future of developing nations.
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These developing countries will soon realize China’s “friendship” comes with a price. Unfortunately, by then it will be too late for them.

www.forbes.com

What China Wants From Africa? Everything

China wants everything from Africa: its strategic location, its oil, its rare earth metals, and its fish, leaving African nations indebted to Beijing.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

www.forbes.com

What China Is Really Up To In Africa

As Africa urbanizes rapidly the presence of Chinese construction teams have become virtually ubiquitous. Is China sharing their expertise and helping lift Africa out of poverty or laying a debt-trap that many countries will struggle to break free of?
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

Big Hoss
 
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Big Time Hoosier said:
How’s ortho going to do in this next impending recession?

Big Hoss
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People still get braces. They might opt for treatment that costs less (metal versus Invisalign in my office), I may have to put them on super long payment plans, but I'll control my overhead still be around. Let's see, this will be the 5th disaster during my 11 year ortho career so far - 1) graduating into the 2009 recession, 2) having an X-ray machine die the month I open my doors, 3) having a baby arrive 2 months too early, and 4) coming down with a rare disease that meant being forced to be in the hospital for 3 months. I'm not even counting the 7 weeks I was out for the other baby even though all numbers were down during that time too. I think I operated at a loss for maybe 2 months out of all that. I got this.
 
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gryffindor said:
People still get braces. They might opt for treatment that costs less (metal versus Invisalign in my office), I may have to put them on super long payment plans, but I'll control my overhead still be around. Let's see, this will be the 5th disaster during my 11 year ortho career so far - 1) graduating into the 2009 recession, 2) having an X-ray machine die the month I open my doors, 3) having a baby arrive 2 months too early, and 4) coming down with a rare disease that meant being forced to be in the hospital for 3 months. I'm not even counting the 7 weeks I was out for the other baby even though all numbers were down during that time too. I think I operated at a loss for maybe 2 months out of all that. I got this.
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Wow. After reading your journey .... People need to stop complaining.
 
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011110 said:
out 7 years. I think most could get in now if they wanted to with the expensive programs. It shows how much dentists want to do ortho since they can charge so much and still have applicant. Ortho is beautiful life compared to being a GP, no more stress and anxiety
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Are the expensive tuition based ortho programs really that easy to get into (if you pay of course)?
 
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