I got 268 on my Step I - is that good enough?

[Pilot Doc]

Interestingly, it appears not.

From the latest NRMP report, the data below are UNmatch rates for US seniors by Step I score. Most other fields have some sort of threshold where matching is essentially assured. (Sugery is 230, Anethesia 220, still working on others) For Derm there's a pretty linear relation between Step 1 score and match rate, but even at over 260, 14% still didn't match. Wow...

Columns below are for US seniors in 2005

Score / UNmatch rate / # matched / # unmatched


0-190 89% 1 8
191-200 83% 3 15
201-210 48% 12 11
211-220 58% 10 14
221-230 38% 32 20
231-240 31% 69 31
241-250 19% 63 15
251-260 21% 37 10
261+ 14% 12 2

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[dermsurg]

why do you have to be so negative?


Score / MATCH / # matched / # unmatched


0-190 11% 1 8
191-200 17% 3 15
201-210 52% 12 11
211-220 42% 10 14
221-230 62% 32 20
231-240 69% 69 31
241-250 81% 63 15
251-260 79% 37 10
261+ 86% 12 2

 

[Gfunk6]

I'm sorry to say that you've totally blown your chances. If you'll notice the graph next to the one you cited, in the category of "non-US seniors" you will see that the match rate for those scoring 270+ is 100% or 2 for 2.

Since you have fallen well-short of the coveted 270 score, I'm afraid to tell you that you have consigned yourself to a PM&R or FM residency. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news dude . . .

 

[Pilot Doc]

why do you have to be so negative?

No offense meant. I happily matched into another field many, many years ago and don't have an agenda here. Just found the stats interesting.

 

[lobelsteve]

I'm sorry to say that you've totally blown your chances. If you'll notice the graph next to the one you cited, in the category of "non-US seniors" you will see that the match rate for those scoring 270+ is 100% or 2 for 2.

Since you have fallen well-short of the coveted 270 score, I'm afraid to tell you that you have consigned yourself to a PM&R or FM residency. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news dude . . .

As an assistant program director or a coveted Pain Fellowship from a PM&R program, I'm offended at your lack of understanding on PM&R.

I never had to work more than 40 hrs per week in residency. I now have no weekend or call responsibility. THere are PMR docs doing nothing but EMG/NCV consults and making over 500k. I make more than most GS. But hey, my surgeries are limited to implantable pumps and spinal cord stimulators.
And I do not have to work in a hospital.

Steven M. Lobel, MD
www.georgiapainphysicians.com

PMR can be a gateway to an awesome career.

 

[lokobo]

stop whining. people would kill small animals for your score.

 

[Reaganite]

As an assistant program director or a coveted Pain Fellowship from a PM&R program, I'm offended at your lack of understanding on PM&R.

I never had to work more than 40 hrs per week in residency. I now have no weekend or call responsibility. THere are PMR docs doing nothing but EMG/NCV consults and making over 500k. I make more than most GS. But hey, my surgeries are limited to implantable pumps and spinal cord stimulators.
And I do not have to work in a hospital.

Steven M. Lobel, MD
www.georgiapainphysicians.com

PMR can be a gateway to an awesome career.

Steve,

Gfunk was simply basing his statements on the data. PM&R had the lowest USMLE average of any specialty.

 

[lobelsteve]

I know. PMR can be had by almost anyone. I saw the quality show in a lot of attendings in training.

On the other hand, I know a final year derm resident who got a spot after 3 years of research. His boards were not over 200.

He'll walk into a great practice next year as a partner with no buy in, guaranteed income, and a great lifestyle.

Who you know often beats what you know.

 

[prominence]

THere are PMR docs doing nothing but EMG/NCV consults and making over 500k.

aren't the majority of EMGs and NCVs done by neurologists?

 

[lobelsteve]

aren't the majority of EMGs and NCVs done by neurologists?

Actually, PMR gets adequate training in Residency, Neuro often does, but the AANEM (boards for EMG) mandates (or has in the past), that Neurology sit through an EMG fellowship year to sit the boards.

PMR docs must do 200 EMG/NCV to graduate, with most getting 500-1000 over 3 years.

Competency is another issue. For 99% of the cases, anyone can do these. I think the training and competence of an academic center's head EMG doc would be required for that last bit of dx acumen.

 

[ocean11]

stop whining. people would kill small animals for your score.

people who kill small animals deserve to be shot themselves and should NEVER EVER be practicing medicine, let alone be allowed into society. They deserve eternal damnation! NO SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pilot Doc]

I'm truly impressed at the number of tangents in this thread entirely unrelated to the original post.

 

[exmike]

people who kill small animals deserve to be shot themselves and should NEVER EVER be practicing medicine, let alone be allowed into society. They deserve eternal damnation! NO SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

thus emphasizing how great a 268 is

 

[Gfunk6]

What Reaganite said.

I have nothing against PM&R or FM, I was simply trying to make an amusing statement. Nevertheless, for better or worse, students future career options are often proportional to their Step I scores.

As an assistant program director or a coveted Pain Fellowship from a PM&R program, I'm offended at your lack of understanding on PM&R.

I never had to work more than 40 hrs per week in residency. I now have no weekend or call responsibility. THere are PMR docs doing nothing but EMG/NCV consults and making over 500k. I make more than most GS. But hey, my surgeries are limited to implantable pumps and spinal cord stimulators.
And I do not have to work in a hospital.

Steven M. Lobel, MD
www.georgiapainphysicians.com

PMR can be a gateway to an awesome career.

 

[Gfunk6]

I'm truly impressed at the number of tangents in this thread entirely unrelated to the original post.

Especially considering that you were simply making a statment akin to, "wow it is really hard to match into Derm even w/ high Step I scores." But unfortunately got spun into, "hey, I got a 268, what do you think my chances are for derm?"

A highly entertaining thread nonetheless . . .

Kudos for starting it!

 

[Hopefulmeds]

I feel like people always ask 'will this score get me in or will that get me in' With the possible exception of AOA, I don't think that any one portion of your application will GUARANTEE a spot in derm or any of the other supercompetitive fields. On the other hand, a weakness in any one of these components (research, AOA, boards, recs) may keep you out. Think of it like links on a chain, and any link that is weak will ruin the entire chain. While a 268 is amazing, you should also have strength in other components of your application in order to minimize your chances of not matching.

 

[cdql]

It says 12 out of 14 got in with a score < or equal to 270

Clearly, this means that if you get a 280, you're all set!

Be sure to be smug at all your interviews and don't answer any questions regarding your AOA status, research experience, or recommendation letters.

 

[dynx]

Be sure to be smug at all your interviews and don't answer any questions regarding your AOA status, research experience, or recommendation letters.

For example:

PD: Are you a member of AOA?
you: Im a member of the 2-AOA-De club, bioootch!

PD: And have you done any research?
you: Why would I do that? I know everything allready.

PD: Ok, how about your letters of recommendation...I didnt notice any in your file.
You: *cough*280*cough

PD: We'll rank you number 1

 

[stenosis]

For example:

PD: Are you a member of AOA?
you: Im a member of the 2-AOA-De club, bioootch!

PD: And have you done any research?
you: Why would I do that? I know everything allready.

PD: Ok, how about your letters of recommendation...I didnt notice any in your file.
You: *cough*280*cough

PD: We'll rank you number 1

And in the personal statement on why did you choose Derm;

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[cdql]

And in the personal statement on why did you choose Derm;

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

hahaha

To be even more condescending, when they ask you "Why derm?"

Whip out a wad of $1's, throw it at the interviewer, and walk out in a huff. If that doesn't show confidence and strength, I don't know what does. ($100's work better but I save $100's for bigger events)

All my interviewers seemed to love that tactic

 

[suguha]

If you add my MCAT, ACT, and Step 1 I would have a 300. Is that good enough????????????

 

[juddson]

Gotta say this much, PMR is starting to look better and better. I had not known (prior to a few weeks ago) that PMR's could do a pain fellowship and sit for pain boards. Plenty of money there.

Judd

 

[Disciple]

As it stands now, you don't need a pain fellowship coming out of PM&R.

Many residency programs will provide you with basal training in interventional procedures.

Medtronic, Stryker, Smith & Nephew and organizations like ISIS and ASIPP will be more than happy to help you with the rest.

 

[stillhere]

As an assistant program director or a coveted Pain Fellowship from a PM&R program, I'm offended at your lack of understanding on PM&R.

I never had to work more than 40 hrs per week in residency. I now have no weekend or call responsibility. THere are PMR docs doing nothing but EMG/NCV consults and making over 500k. I make more than most GS. But hey, my surgeries are limited to implantable pumps and spinal cord stimulators.
And I do not have to work in a hospital.

Steven M. Lobel, MD
www.georgiapainphysicians.com

PMR can be a gateway to an awesome career.

So do you know why PMR residency is not very competitive to get? i would think that it would be sought after since the lifestyle sounds good and there is a lot $$$ potential. those seem to be the two major reasons why people want to go into derm (at least that's what the students who are applying to derm tell me). is it just that students aren't familiar with PMR so that's why it's not a competitive residency?

 

[Disciple]

Everybody knows about Derm.

Ask someone what a Physiatrist is.

"You're going to be a what?" "Psychiatrist...?" "Podiatrist...?"

As a Physiatrist, others will think you just sit around watching PT all day.

Remember, musculoskeletal medicine and interventional pain management are pretty recent developments of the past 10-15 years.

Most med schools still don't have a PM&R department, required PM&R rotations, or the option for PM&R electives for that matter.

During med school I stumbled upon PM&R by accident.

Lucky me I guess.

 

[xSTALLiONx]

Everybody knows about Derm.

Ask someone what a Physiatrist is.

"You're going to be a what?" "Psychiatrist...?" "Podiatrist...?"

As a Physiatrist, others will think you just sit around watching PT all day.

Remember, musculoskeletal medicine and interventional pain management are pretty recent developments of the past 10-15 years.

Most med schools still don't have a PM&R department, required PM&R rotations, or the option for PM&R electives for that matter.

During med school I stumbled upon PM&R by accident.

Lucky me I guess.

So what's the income potential?

What happens if they create a vaccine given at birth for all pain? What will you do then? Nothing to manage..

 

[Disciple]

Check the Allied or MGMA physician salary surveys.

Pain vaccine?

Lucky there are new subspecialties available
-Sports Med
-Neuromuscular Disorders
-Acquired Brain Disorders
-Palliative Care

In addition to the established ones
-Spinal Cord Injury
-Pediatrics

and of course EMGs, Musculoskeletal Ultrasound, IMEs/QMEs/AMEs for Worker's Comp, Depositions, Expert Witness, etc...

 

[DiveMD]

For example:

PD: Are you a member of AOA?
you: Im a member of the 2-AOA-De club, bioootch!

PD: And have you done any research?
you: Why would I do that? I know everything allready.

PD: Ok, how about your letters of recommendation...I didnt notice any in your file.
You: *cough*280*cough

PD: We'll rank you number 1

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[madtowngirl]

Its true, as students we don't have a lot of exposure to PMR. I just did my school's required rehab week a few weeks ago.(it is scheduled either in 3rd or 4th year). I was pleasantly surprised by how neat it is. Not enough to change my career choice or anything, but I can see how it would be a rewarding field.

 

[aspiring_painMD]

My theory as to why PM&R is not as competitive as it should be: it is a newer field with little exposure. When students/residents interact with PM&R docs, its often in an inpatient basis, which although a fundamental part of PM&R, is not nearly as laidback. Also, there are only 80+ programs. Of these, there are probably 30-40 great to really solid programs. Then there are a bunch that are just ridiculous. You have no idea what these guys are learning. Some of these places, the inpatient PM&R docs pan-consult medicine for everything, which annoys me. Maybe there are medico-legal issues involved, or maybe they've lost all knowledge of internal medicine, I don't know but its ******ed when you consult medicine for management of DM or primary hypothyroidism, esp if you're an academic center.

Students don't as much exposure to the outpatient side. The docs who run their own sports clinic along side ortho docs, or see outpatient amputee, spinal cord injuries in clinic 4 days a week, then do EMGs 1 day/wk. It really takes a lot of investigation.

Anyways, one final note. I know you guys love to generalize the different specialties, but there really are lots of dumb & bright ppl in any field. There are lots of people who study very hard and score 250-260s. I know, b/c I am one of them and many of my classmates were also, its not a huge deal. You aren't special and are probably not pretty either, in spite of what yo momma told you. Some of the brightest students at my school chose FM, a challenging field where you must be a jack of all trades. But I recognize that some of this board will have a need to be elitist and/or stereotypical.

 

[MMM3]

Im happy to hear you got a 268. Please go tell everybody and try to discourage them. If you got a 268 and didn't think it really was good enough then your an idiot despite your score or just a punk trying to discourage other students. I didn't get your score but still got into derm because I proved myself at the rotation. And by the way there was someone there who had a comparable score to yours whose spot I guess I took. He was an idiot much like yourself and proved it during the course of the rotation.

 

[Red Beard]

A PM&R resident from my school was facilitating a class of ours recently. During the class, he asked "does everyone know what PM&R stands for?"

Everyone said "Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation."

He responded "No, it means 'Plenty of Money and Relaxation.'"