I feel like a hypocrite, but I feel like I'm ready to quit intern year

[koikisi]

I just cannot withstand the way things are going on in my program. I specifically told someone on here a couple weeks ago not to quit, but I'm just really feeling low after the events today. We had a noon conference with the upper level residents at my program (Psychiatry) and they all said that I am slow with my work, and quality report will go down with my presence. I've been trying hard (staying late, not reporting hours, etc.) but I don't think there is more that I can humanly do at this stage.

My BF moved here with me and I hardly ever see him. I just want to quit, move back home and go back to my life as a medical student who went from rotation to rotation.

If I quit now, is there anything I can do with my DO degree? I had a passion for Psychiatry that I discovered late. Can I perhaps teach psychopharmacology to medical students somewhere to help pay back my loans?

I know that no residency program will ever roll the dice on me again if I quit without finishing a year. But my mental health is negatively impacted every time I show up to work. One of the nurses has told me that she would rather take orders from the medical student than me since I seem to be too preoccupied texting (when I'm really just looking things upon uptodate).

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[calvnandhobbs68]

Sounds like a pervasive program attitude problem if your senior residents are giving you crap about being slow two weeks into intern year...what's quality report and why would it go down with your presence?

 

[koikisi]

I can't change the fact that I did not do observership here.

 

[Arcan57]

Intern year (especially early on) is difficult. You've spent 4 years preparing to learn and now you're actually learning how to practice medicine. Your performance actually matters to those immediately supervising you, and so residents that may have been bastards but didn't care enough to correct/reprimand you as a med student now do. It's also very ego dystonic to go from feeling like a successful med student to being mostly useless as a July intern. But it gets better. Management decisions that you agonize about for hours will become split second in a by the time you finish training. You'll get the EMR down and you'll become significantly more efficient at finishing your work. You'll figure out a way to make it work with the BF or break up and find someone that can handle your hours.

Keep moving forward, keep trying your best, and in a year you'll be amazed at how far you've gotten. Think about how the college version of you would have felt about the med school version of you describing what you went through studying for Step 1 (or DO equivalent). The human capacity to endure is amazing.

 

[22031 Alum]

I just cannot withstand the way things are going on in my program. I specifically told someone on here a couple weeks ago not to quit, but I'm just really feeling low after the events today. We had a noon conference with the upper level residents at my program (Psychiatry) and they all said that I am slow with my work, and quality report will go down with my presence. I've been trying hard (staying late, not reporting hours, etc.) but I don't think there is more that I can humanly do at this stage.

I don't know what quality report is, but things are supposed to go slower with new interns. If your uppers are being jerks about it (and it's not just good-natured teasing), then put your head down and work hard to make them eat their words. You will get better with time if you just keep at it.

My BF moved here with me and I hardly ever see him. I just want to quit, move back home and go back to my life as a medical student who went from rotation to rotation.

You know that if you quit, that will not be the life you go back to. The life of an unemployable physician with a now-useless, expensive degree is not going to be any easier than what you are living now, so don't think about it that way.

One of the nurses has told me that she would rather take orders from the medical student than me since I seem to be too preoccupied texting (when I'm really just looking things upon uptodate).

This is a bit of a red flag to me. Even if you are looking things up, the impression that you are giving is that you are preoccupied with other things and not the patients. Can you be focused and present for your interactions with the patients and nurses while out on the floor, then read up on things later? And if you must stop and look things up constantly in order to function, you need to work to make that not the case as soon as possible. Make index card "cheat sheets" or something-- looking at papers will always be better-received than looking down at your phone.

 

[Marcus Brody]

I think you better grow a thicker skin.

 

[koikisi]

I don't know what quality report is, but things are supposed to go slower with new interns. If your uppers are being jerks about it (and it's not just good-natured teasing), then put your head down and work hard to make them eat their words. You will get better with time if you just keep at it.



You know that if you quit, that will not be the life you go back to. The life of an unemployable physician with a now-useless, expensive degree is not going to be any easier than what you are living now, so don't think about it that way.




This is a bit of a red flag to me. Even if you are looking things up, the impression that you are giving is that you are preoccupied with other things and not the patients. Can you be focused and present for your interactions with the patients and nurses while out on the floor, then read up on things later? And if you must stop and look things up constantly in order to function, you need to work to make that not the case as soon as possible. Make index card "cheat sheets" or something-- looking at papers will always be better-received than looking down at your phone.

I agree with you on the last point, that I could do the whole index card thing to look up the meds my patients are taking.

I just feel like things change from day to day very quickly. The attendings say they will come at 9 AM to round, don't show up until 1 PM. Sometimes 7 AM.

I've never been rude to anyone, but I feel like I suck out like a sore thumb because I don't know everything on the top of my head regarding legal things either. I'm the only one in my class to have just graduated medical school. My classmates are 2-10 years out and have passed all their exams.

One of them was a Psychiatrist in India and his wife is a practicing Psychiatrist nearby. So obviously I can't compete with their knowledge regarding emergent management. I am reading up on uptodate constantly trying to expand my knowledge, but it seems like its never enough.

To top it all off, I feel like when I'm on call and actually a lightbulb goes off, and I figure out something, my pager just keeps on ringing. In essence, the patient volume is quite new to me (it's literally hard for me to juggle 13+ patients a day). I have never even had to do so much in my medicine months.

But I know, that if I quit, my degree will be useless. I am just shocked as to how busy a psychiatry residency can be and how inefficient I am compared to the other interns. The only advice I am getting is that I did not do an observership therefore I am not doing a good job.

 

[22031 Alum]

I agree with you on the last point, that I could do the whole index card thing to look up the meds my patients are taking.

I just feel like things change from day to day very quickly. The attendings say they will come at 9 AM to round, don't show up until 1 PM. Sometimes 7 AM.

I've never been rude to anyone, but I feel like I suck out like a sore thumb because I don't know everything on the top of my head regarding legal things either. I'm the only one in my class to have just graduated medical school. My classmates are 2-10 years out and have passed all their exams.

One of them was a Psychiatrist in India and his wife is a practicing Psychiatrist nearby. So obviously I can't compete with their knowledge regarding emergent management. I am reading up on uptodate constantly trying to expand my knowledge, but it seems like its never enough.

To top it all off, I feel like when I'm on call and actually a lightbulb goes off, and I figure out something, my pager just keeps on ringing. In essence, the patient volume is quite new to me (it's literally hard for me to juggle 13+ patients a day). I have never even had to do so much in my medicine months.

But I know, that if I quit, my degree will be useless. I am just shocked as to how busy a psychiatry residency can be and how inefficient I am compared to the other interns. The only advice I am getting is that I did not do an observership therefore I am not doing a good job.

I'll be honest, I don't have any experience with a program like yours- I know they must exist, but I've been relatively lucky in my training and career. The simple fact of the matter is, this program is your path to becoming a fully-licensed psychiatrist. It may well be the only path you will have. No matter how much it sucks, residency doesn't last forever. Work hard and persevere, and you will be able to take control of your career after this self-limited time.

Inefficiency will get better. That feeling of something new coming up, just when you finally feel like you have things under control? Interns all over the place are having that exact same feeling every day.

Knowledge deficits will get better. It's good that you're reading- but during patient care is NOT the time to bust out your phone and peruse Up to Date. Get a pocket handbook, make index cards - something to refer to if a question arises "in the moment." The time to sit down and say "I'm going to review XYZ" is not when you're interacting with patients or giving orders to nurses. It's during downtime when you're off the floor, or when you're at home (sucks to have something else added to your plate, but that's just residency). You don't want the reputation of being the distracted, inattentive intern. "Good attitude, hard-working, messes up sometimes but is always trying to improve" - that's the reputation you want.

tl;dr: This too shall pass.

 

[Law2Doc]

I just cannot withstand the way things are going on in my program. I specifically told someone on here a couple weeks ago not to quit, but I'm just really feeling low after the events today. We had a noon conference with the upper level residents at my program (Psychiatry) and they all said that I am slow with my work, and quality report will go down with my presence. I've been trying hard (staying late, not reporting hours, etc.) but I don't think there is more that I can humanly do at this stage.

My BF moved here with me and I hardly ever see him. I just want to quit, move back home and go back to my life as a medical student who went from rotation to rotation.

If I quit now, is there anything I can do with my DO degree? I had a passion for Psychiatry that I discovered late. Can I perhaps teach psychopharmacology to medical students somewhere to help pay back my loans?

I know that no residency program will ever roll the dice on me again if I quit without finishing a year. But my mental health is negatively impacted every time I show up to work. One of the nurses has told me that she would rather take orders from the medical student than me since I seem to be too preoccupied texting (when I'm really just looking things upon uptodate).

First, everyone struggles with intern year in different ways -- the first inclination should be to weather the storm, not quit. If everyone who ever thought about quitting during intern year did, there would be very few interns.
Second, if speed is the issue, you need to address that. Coming in early and leaving late are good ideas, but you might want to see what other interns are doing that makes the grade -- you might find you are spending too much time on things your seniors don't care about or there might be more time efficient ways to do things. Don't get hung up on doing things the way you are most comfortable if everyone else does it differently.
Third, missing your boyfriend isn't the best reason to upset a career if that's what you are hinting at. All interns have limited social interactions with loved ones at times -- it gets more controllable as you progress through residency. This is something you hopefully knew going in.
Fourth, make friends with the nurses -- they can always burn you if they don't like you. Show up with a box of donuts or cookies for the nursing station once in a while -- it's a relatively cheap investment in having an easier year.
Fifth, if they perceive you as standing around texting with your boyfriend 24/7 that may reflect how others see you too. A lot of your issues could relate to the image you are projecting rather than anything you are actually doing. I'd limit using your cell phone significantly.
Sixth, a lot of doing well in intern year has to do with attitude. If you smile and roll up your sleeves, Gung ho about everything, that reflects on you better than if you always seem flustered and overwhelmed. The difference between a person who has a great intern year and a bad one is usually more about their respective personality than the difference in what they endured. You aren't in a field that typically sets records for duty hour violations and I would bet there's probably a guy in a more hour intense field somewhere in your hospital working 10-20 more hours a week than you and yet having a blast.
Finally, the biggest issue interns that struggle have is insight. Most of the interns I've seen who weren't renewed had no clue they weren't pulling their weight or listening to criticisms. It was always "I'm doing everything everyone else is, just as well as everyone else, I don't know why I'm being singled out". While I'm sure that could be true sometimes, it pays to have great insight into how you can listen and fix things, not revert to your comfort zone of doing things your own way -- ways people disagree with. A lot of the time if people say you suck as an intern, you probably do. It's not an innate skillset. The right approach is not to be defensive but to say, "you are right, how would you suggest I change things up?"

Sorry if any of this comes across as harsh. It's a tough year for everyone and you just want to get on track and push through.

 

[koikisi]

First, everyone struggles with intern year in different ways -- the first inclination should be to weather the storm, not quit. If everyone who ever thought about quitting during intern year did, there would be very few interns.
Second, if speed is the issue, you need to address that. Coming in early and leaving late are good ideas, but you might want to see what other interns are doing that makes the grade -- you might find you are spending too much time on things your seniors don't care about or there might be more time efficient ways to do things. Don't get hung up on doing things the way you are most comfortable if everyone else does it differently.
Third, missing your boyfriend isn't the best reason to upset a career if that's what you are hinting at. All interns have limited social interactions with loved ones at times -- it gets more controllable as you progress through residency. This is something you hopefully knew going in.
Fourth, make friends with the nurses -- they can always burn you if they don't like you. Show up with a box of donuts or cookies for the nursing station once in a while -- it's a relatively cheap investment in having an easier year.
Fifth, if they perceive you as standing around texting with your boyfriend 24/7 that may reflect how others see you too. A lot of your issues could relate to the image you are projecting rather than anything you are actually doing. I'd limit using your cell phone significantly.
Sixth, a lot of doing well in intern year has to do with attitude. If you smile and roll up your sleeves, Gung ho about everything, that reflects on you better than if you always seem flustered and overwhelmed. The difference between a person who has a great intern year and a bad one is usually more about their respective personality than the difference in what they endured. You aren't in a field that typically sets records for duty hour violations and I would bet there's probably a guy in a more hour intense field somewhere in your hospital working 10-20 more hours a week than you and yet having a blast.
Finally, the biggest issue interns that struggle have is insight. Most of the interns I've seen who weren't renewed had no clue they weren't pulling their weight or listening to criticisms. It was always "I'm doing everything everyone else is, just as well as everyone else, I don't know why I'm being singled out". While I'm sure that could be true sometimes, it pays to have great insight into how you can listen and fix things, not revert to your comfort zone of doing things your own way -- ways people disagree with. A lot of the time if people say you suck as an intern, you probably do. It's not an innate skillset. The right approach is not to be defensive but to say, "you are right, how would you suggest I change things up?"

Sorry if any of this comes across as harsh. It's a tough year for everyone and you just want to get on track and push through.

No your response doesn't come across as harsh, it is useful advice. My boyfriend is actually with me (he found a job nearby), I knew I'd see him less but I'll be honest in that I did not expect to not see him at all.

The interns with me, usually do their work from home (i.e. they come in at 6 AM, leave at 6PM, come home and work on the next days notes) and copy the progress notes from the previous day, but change lab values, vitals, and a few things in the mental status exam. They have also been trying to get quite cushy with the nurses on the floor and try to get nice with them whenever possible by offering to bring in donuts, more paper for the copier, and also having their wives cook indian food, and bringing it during lunch.

I'm not usually into bribing people, but it helps, I guess. I'm just not the type who likes to make small talk with others and never had efficiency issues in the past.

The part that I think is hurting me the most is the fact that the patient volume is not one that I am accustomed to. It's just too damn saturated and nonstop admits come in.

The senior residents who are on the floor like to gossip in their native indian language with the current interns because they had all done their observership here.

 

[koikisi]

I also found out recently that they are taking someone off cycle ( who attended the med school but was off track)...does this possibly mean that they have some plans on getting rid of me? Would it be better just to resign if things get to hostile rather than being terminated halfway through intern year?

A few PGY3's have told me that my notes are pathetic and they want me tested for a learning disability.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Lol bringing donuts and food to already over weight RNs is comical
The culture has made it such that it's expected to bring them food
I never buy food for RNs and I'm respected for my judgement and personality
You need to work hard, be efficient, do the copy pasta and be sure not to miss critical information or repeat stuff that happened in the past
Also, dont bust out your cell phone in front of patients/family/nurses. I wouldn't even on rounds.
There is always time away in between patients you can look stuff up on. Refer to your seniors for help too.
Sounds like you're in an FMG haven that may be malignant. But, you also need to act more confident too.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I also found out recently that they are taking someone off cycle ( who attended the med school but was off track)...does this possibly mean that they have some plans on getting rid of me? Would it be better just to resign if things get to hostile rather than being terminated halfway through intern year?

A few PGY3's have told me that my notes are pathetic and they want me tested for a learning disability.

That last part.... Unbelievable.
I don't know if taking someone off cycle has anything to do with you or not. That's a very crappy situaton to be a part of only 2 weeks in.

 

[doc05]

1. don't quit.
2. get a pocket handbook (old-fashioned paperback) rather than use your phone.
3. do you really need to spend that much time on notes?? "progress" implies change from last note, so most notes should be 4-5 lines max.
4. good luck.

 

[medrest]

Please do not quit. Just keep going. You will be fine. I cried several times during intern year. But now I am an excellent physician. The fact that you got into residency tells you are highly talented doctor. Don't underestimate yourself.

 

[koikisi]

I know, I'm just feeling a bit overwhelmed my the remarks at the moment. I've never gotten this harsh of feedback as a medical student, I'll admit I had some cushy rotations where all I had to do was show up and shadow. But I had some hard medicine and surgery months, and they said stellar things about me. I am a team player and it was exemplified in my MSPE.

I also was not that atrocious of a candidate, my COMLEX Scores were above average although I didn't do the USMLE--which my PD commented on in front of the medical students.

I just feel like the only one person in the program who I can talk to is the chief and he is on an away rotation now. Should I take a chance and have a heart to heart with the PD? I can try and get his input on ways to improve. I have the pocket manuals, and from now on, I'll keep my phone locked up in my car. I just don't know what I can do other than this.

What the ironic thing is that the medicine and pediatrics departments seem so friendly and happy. They have a worse call schedule than us, but that's besides the point. I don't mind the work, as long as I have some guidance and not such a hostile environment for working.

I don't quit on things easily but I honestly get such a sour taste when I see the nurses laughing at me when I come in.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I know, I'm just feeling a bit overwhelmed my the remarks at the moment. I've never gotten this harsh of feedback as a medical student, I'll admit I had some cushy rotations where all I had to do was show up and shadow. But I had some hard medicine and surgery months, and they said stellar things about me. I am a team player and it was exemplified in my MSPE.

I also was not that atrocious of a candidate, my COMLEX Scores were above average although I didn't do the USMLE--which my PD commented on in front of the medical students.

I just feel like the only one person in the program who I can talk to is the chief and he is on an away rotation now. Should I take a chance and have a heart to heart with the PD? I can try and get his input on ways to improve. I have the pocket manuals, and from now on, I'll keep my phone locked up in my car. I just don't know what I can do other than this.

What the ironic thing is that the medicine and pediatrics departments seem so friendly and happy. They have a worse call schedule than us, but that's besides the point. I don't mind the work, as long as I have some guidance and not such a hostile environment for working.

I don't quit on things easily but I honestly get such a sour taste when I see the nurses laughing at me when I come in.

PD should never comment on if you took USMLE or not in front of med students or anyone else really.
Are you the only DO they have ever had?
Is it mainly FMG heavy program?
Don't lock up your phone in the car, just keep it in your white coat pocket and use it when not around pts/family/rn/attendings.
You need to take command some. Don't let them break you. They can sniff that ish out like pariahas and will eat you alive. Work on your posture and approach to people when you want their attention or when you speak to them, and take the time to listen and act interested, especially if an RN is telling you something.

 

[koikisi]

PD should never comment on if you took USMLE or not in front of med students or anyone else really.
Are you the only DO they have ever had?
Is it mainly FMG heavy program?
Don't lock up your phone in the car, just keep it in your white coat pocket and use it when not around pts/family/rn/attendings.
You need to take command some. Don't let them break you. They can sniff that ish out like pariahas and will eat you alive. Work on your posture and approach to people when you want their attention or when you speak to them, and take the time to listen and act interested, especially if an RN is telling you something.

I know what you are saying, I have always struggled with being very firm, primarily because I never had the need to.

But I feel like this has made me like the small, scared school girl...I need a little bit more confidence. Especially with my speech, it's so low and slow whenever I'm around them.

I don't know if I am the only DO they have ever had but most residents are from India, China or the Caribbean. There are 2 US MD's from the home school too.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

We have an intern similar to you.
My job is to work on her to get her to be more vocal, think critically, and help her improve on her notes, etc.

Im not sitting there laughing at her and calling her names or denigrating her.

 

[thepoopologist]

You are there to do everything you can to become a good resident and ultimately a good physician. You are not there to listen to a bunch of dinguses tell you how much you suck and accept it. Keep in mind that you are only two weeks in, and for them to put you in a situation like that is more a reflection on them than yourself. Still, how to address their perception of you? Smile and be pleasant to everyone, regardless of what they say to you. What can help is to really take inventory of what your abilities are at present time and be honest with yourself about where you are. Ask for positive feedback as well so you know when you're doing something right. All you can ask of yourself is that you work hard, work smart, develop friendships, and find some joy in your life. If they don't dismiss you by the end of the year, then you're one step closer to finishing your training. If they do, well this is your chance to not be around a bunch of dinguses.

 

[thepoopologist]

Speaking of which, transfers can happen. Re-matching can happen. We have two residents in our program that have experienced each and everything worked for the better.

If you're still putting up with the same garbage 6 months from now I'd look into getting out at the end of the year.

 

[koikisi]

You are there to do everything you can to become a good resident and ultimately a good physician. You are not there to listen to a bunch of dinguses tell you how much you suck and accept it. Keep in mind that you are only two weeks in, and for them to put you in a situation like that is more a reflection on them than yourself. Still, how to address their perception of you? Smile and be pleasant to everyone, regardless of what they say to you. What can help is to really take inventory of what your abilities are at present time and be honest with yourself about where you are. Ask for positive feedback as well so you know when you're doing something right. All you can ask of yourself is that you work hard, work smart, develop friendships, and find some joy in your life. If they don't dismiss you by the end of the year, then you're one step closer to finishing your training. If they do, well this is your chance to not be around a bunch of dinguses.

I am always trying to stay later and ask for positive feedback, but I don't really get much other than I need to speed up.

What worries me is if they dismiss me or if I leave prior to 1 year, what will happen to me? There are DO residencies popping up with vacancies, but they may not take a chance on me because they'll think im a traitor.

Im wondering why they took me if they felt this way about me.

 

[thepoopologist]

I am always trying to stay later and ask for positive feedback, but I don't really get much other than I need to speed up.

What worries me is if they dismiss me or if I leave prior to 1 year, what will happen to me? There are DO residencies popping up with vacancies, but they may not take a chance on me because they'll think im a traitor.

Im wondering why they took me if they felt this way about me.

You can't control that. You can only control what you decide to do about yourself. Let the rest of that garbage go.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Agree.
You can't control their perception of you and you cant control what they'll do to you
All you can control is what YOU do
If you take the time to listen and improve, then the end result may improve
If it doesn't improve despite improvement on your end, then peace out and transfer elsewhere.
DO programs don't give 2 craps about you going to an MD program or not. Hell, it's all one accreditation system now anyways.

 

[koikisi]

I know I'm worrying too much. But my question is if I quit before the end of this year, is there any chance or any stories of people ever getting a place somewhere without completing PGY1?

Thanks

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Try to finish. Quitting before end of intern year never helps.

 

[22031 Alum]

I know I'm worrying too much. But my question is if I quit before the end of this year, is there any chance or any stories of people ever getting a place somewhere without completing PGY1?

Thanks

As much as this sucks, your life is very likely to suck much, much worse if you don't complete the year. Do your best to at least stick it out for this year.

 

[Crayola227]

There's threads on what you can do without an intern year with a medical education, you can read about that.

I hate to see anyone who wants to do clinical medicine not end up doing that, but **** happens. I hope things can work out.

What you said they said, I don't know the specifics or if they are being harder on you than is usual for seniors,
but I feel like most interns feel hated by most people they work with. There's a certain amount of being crapped on in the medical field that is just what happens. Hopefully it's not personal, although I know it sounds and feels personal, and maybe you have been targeted by the pack of hyenas, but also keep in mind that a lot of it isn't personal. Still sucks, but hopefully knowing you're not alone, and that every intern in history has at some point been put down unfairly can help you put the senior hazing in perspective and let you continue to pursue whatever you choose to pursue.

 

[Crayola227]

If there is any way to finish the year without permanent physical damage to yourself, suicide, substance abuse, maiming or killing patients, or getting terminated, I would urge you down that path if you can manage it.

 

[rokshana]

you make mention of the pt load and your inability to handle it...are you having to carry a load above and beyond the ACGME requirements? Or that its not the same load as a med student?

you also mentioned that there are 2 USMDs from the home school as well as Caribbean students ...i would imagine they do not have years of experience and went into residency straight from school....have you talked to them to see what they do to make themselves more efficient? Or talk to those "happy" IM and Peds residents?

seems like you are having issues with transitioning from having the no (or little) responsibility life of a med student to the responsibility heavy (at least for getting things done) life of an intern... and accepting that sometimes it IS the small talk type of things that can help smooth things along...

and checking your phone in front of nurses, pts, etc, is still a big no no...really feel the need to have to look things up in front of people (which frankly you should do out of sight ) get a tablet of some sort...then it will look more like you are not texting your bf...

 

[Gastrapathy]

What is a psych intern reading urgently on UTD?

 

[hamstergang]

What is a psych intern reading urgently on UTD?

Could be off service. Or if a patient reports a potential side effect -- some aren't so urgent, some are like serotonin syndrome, NMS, or acute EPS. We also deal with withdrawal, and some hospitals have psych manage alcohol withdrawal.Or a non-psych issue in a psych patient.

 

[rokshana]

Could be off service. Or if a patient reports a potential side effect -- some aren't so urgent, some are like serotonin syndrome, NMS, or acute EPS. We also deal with withdrawal, and some hospitals have psych manage alcohol withdrawal.Or a non-psych issue in a psych patient.

again, not something that needs to be done in front of people...that is what the team room is for...

 

[jw3600]

While I agree with making nice with the nurses, I would love to see her cell phone service with time and stamped texting data. Every nurse I have encountered is on their phone dozens of times a shift. And they do not even have the looking stuff up excuse. She sounds like a rough person to have to work with.

 

[rokshana]

While I agree with making nice with the nurses, I would love to see her cell phone service with time and stamped texting data. Every nurse I have encountered is on their phone dozens of times a shift. And they do not even have the looking stuff up excuse. She sounds like a rough person to have to work with.

the reality is that the nurses can make your life as a resident hell...the reverse is not necessarily true...is it fair...no, can you really do anything about it...no...

residency is NOT the rest of your life...it is at minimum 3 years that you have to deal with being treated like a minion...and intern year, while it may feel like forever, it one year...ONE year...pull up your man pants and deal with it...

 

[jw3600]

the reality is that the nurses can make your life as a resident hell...the reverse is not necessarily true...is it fair...no, can you really do anything about it...no...

residency is NOT the rest of your life...it is at minimum 3 years that you have to deal with being treated like a minion...and intern year, while it may feel like forever, it one year...ONE year...pull up your man pants and deal with it...

Not sure why you quoted me. Are you contending what I was saying or just reiterating?

 

[hamstergang]

again, not something that needs to be done in front of people...that is what the team room is for...

I don't recall saying or implying otherwise. I was responding to the post I quoted.

 

[Member 1337]

A few PGY3's have told me that my notes are pathetic and they want me tested for a learning disability.

Lots of excellent advice already on this thread.

Would add that some feedback you receive will be less than helpful. Some "feedback" may just be someone trying to displace their own feelings of anger/inadequacy onto you - may be meant to hurt you because you're an easy target.

Learning to differentiate between helpful criticism and hurtful bullying is important. Helpful feedback is usually a variation of the SMART method (among others): specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and timely. When a resident or attending gives you feedback, you can be proactive in coaching them to help it fit SMART criteria. How are your notes "pathetic?" Are they missing pertinent positives/negatives, is there something wrong with the structure/order that doesn't flow, does your assessment/plan not logically step out of your reported data, are you conflating subjective and objective elements of your note, etc. Will they sit down with you this week and go over 5 notes, give feedback, then check with you next week to track improvement?

An effective, teaching resident will recognize that telling an intern their notes are "pathetic" doesn't teach them how to improve, whereas a toxic resident won't be able to move past merely telling others how much they suck.

And next year, when you're a PGY-2 resident, you'll be able to pass on all that you've learned about learning to the incoming interns.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I know I'm worrying too much. But my question is if I quit before the end of this year, is there any chance or any stories of people ever getting a place somewhere without completing PGY1?

Thanks

Probably. There are people who make comebacks from all sorts of things even if the odds are slim. Things will be easier if you successfully complete your intern year, though. It does sound like you're in a really malignant training environment, and I think maybe working (initially secretly) on an exit strategy makes sense. Residents do move between programs all the time, so transferring is a legitimate option. Do you have any contacts at your home program who could offer some support?

For now, I agree that if you can continue with the program and remain somewhat OK, it's probably in your best interest to do so. Find ways to seek out support outside of the program and take care of yourself however you can. Maybe copy what the other more popular residents are doing to make the nurses happy and try to see how other non-Indian, non local grads make it as it sounds like there are a few.

I'm sorry that you wound up training in such a miserable place. If this is a psychiatry program, this is really atypical, and there are better places you can wind up.

 

[rokshana]

Not sure why you quoted me. Are you contending what I was saying or just reiterating?

it doesn't matter if the nurse is texting or looking at her fb...residents can not do the same and even if you are doing something legit on your phone like looking something on UTD, the perception is that you are doing something personal when looking at your phone.

 

[jw3600]

it doesn't matter if the nurse is texting or looking at her fb...residents can not do the same and even if you are doing something legit on your phone like looking something on UTD, the perception is that you are doing something personal when looking at your phone.

I agree. I said nothing remotely contradicting that in my post.

 

[preDoGuy24]

it doesn't matter if the nurse is texting or looking at her fb...residents can not do the same and even if you are doing something legit on your phone like looking something on UTD, the perception is that you are doing something personal when looking at your phone.

I think this depends on the situation. If I just saw a patient and am putting in orders while texting my senior my assessment and plan I could give a F what the nurse thinks of me on my phone. Mind your own damn business, I am not a child. Simply tell the nurse your are looking up a relevant dosing/treatment guideline or texting your senior resident. End of conversation.

Now if it's on rounds or in a patient room, that's dumb and shouldn't be done. Take your lumps and look up what you don't know later.


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[ThoracicGuy]

I think this depends on the situation. If I just saw a patient and am putting in orders while texting my senior my assessment and plan I could give a F what the nurse thinks of me on my phone. Mind your own damn business, I am not a child. Simply tell the nurse your are looking up a relevant dosing/treatment guideline or texting your senior resident. End of conversation.

Now if it's on rounds or in a patient room, that's dumb and shouldn't be done. Take your lumps and look up what you don't know later.


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Appearances matter alot though. If the nurses are making complaints about it, then it needs to be done discreetly. Yes, it shouldn't matter, but it does. You are a resident. You are there for 3-5 years. For the most part, you can't just tell the nurse to mind her own business.

 

[preDoGuy24]

Appearances matter alot though. If the nurses are making complaints about it, then it needs to be done discreetly. Yes, it shouldn't matter, but it does. You are a resident. You are there for 3-5 years. For the most part, you can't just tell the nurse to mind her own business.

You also can't sit around and let nurses bully you. Stick up for yourself once and it will be done, continue the meek mannered Dr. Bit and it's going to be a long 3-5 years. Nurses complain about a lot of things and will try to bully new residents into doing a lot of things (sedating patients, ordering restraints, pain meds, icu transfers etc.)....ultimately you as the physician don't answer to the nurses.


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[ThoracicGuy]

You also can't sit around and let nurses bully you. Stick up for yourself once and it will be done, continue the meek mannered Dr. Bit and it's going to be a long 3-5 years. Nurses complain about a lot of things and will try to bully new residents into doing a lot of things (sedating patients, ordering restraints, pain meds, icu transfers etc.)....ultimately you as the physician don't answer to the nurses.


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No, but what happens when the nurses think you're just facebooking or something else on your phone instead of working? They talk and eventually it'll get back to your attendings. Who will the attending believe? The new intern or the nurses that they have to work with all the time for years? Chances are it'll be the nurses. It's just not worth it. Pick your battles. This isn't one of them.

 

[preDoGuy24]

No, but what happens when the nurses think you're just facebooking or something else on your phone instead of working? They talk and eventually it'll get back to your attendings. Who will the attending believe? The new intern or the nurses that they have to work with all the time for years? Chances are it'll be the nurses. It's just not worth it. Pick your battles. This isn't one of them.

My attendings thus far would 100% back even the interns. I agree with you partially, but like I said if I am texting a senior/attending I could care less the opinion of the house staff, the info I am sending/receiving is more important. We are professional adults, shouldn't have to tell an intern not to Facebook on the floor. More and more really important patient care info is exchanged over a cell phone, expecting residents not to be using them is ridiculous.


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[ThoracicGuy]

My attendings thus far would 100% back even the interns. I agree with you partially, but like I said if I am texting a senior/attending I could care less the opinion of the house staff, the info I am sending/receiving is more important. We are professional adults, shouldn't have to tell an intern not to Facebook on the floor. More and more really important patient care info is exchanged over a cell phone, expecting residents not to be using them is ridiculous.


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Though you have to admit the time it takes to send a text is much less than the time to look at UptoDate or other resources. Sending a text and then putting away your phone isn't the problem. It's sitting there reading stuff that is the problem. They don't know that it's educational and not facebook or the like. And yeah, we shouldn't have to tell interns not to facebook on the floor, but that happens far more often than it should.

 

[alicealicealice]

I'm an intern too and can totally relate to the feeling that sometimes the world is conspiring against you, in the sense that you are just trying to get by and learn you're new role the best you can, take care of your patients, and get you're work done. You can have the best of intentions but it's all in the eye of the beholder and that eye is actually several (nurses other residents patients attending support staff) all judging you in their own way.

And yes sometimes it's malicious judgment and sometimes what you're doing can come across as somehow wrong even though you have the best of intentions. How these people think you should act or operate can vary team to team, person to person or even hour to hour. You just need to accept that occasionally there's nothing you can do that's "right" take something away from the criticism and know that you can't please everybody all the time.

It sucks sometimes. What you seem to be in is a hostile environment, and I'm going to take what you say at face value and sympathize with you and tell you you are not a bad person nor will you be a bad doctor, this does not define you. try your best to channel all of this into positive changes and growth. Usually I know when I've felt hurt by nonconstructive criticism there's usually some grain of truth and a learning point buried within that you can take away.

That being said don't think you're crazy if you feel like you're being mistreated cause it happens. But please try to persevere and know that this too shall pass. Your introspection and honesty will treat you well in the long run and this life is all about the long run. Remember one day you will be an asset for your patients. Though many programs say that patients are what it's all about and that they care about you as a person they talk the talk but don't always walk the walk. That's the reality of medicine. But keep on keeping on work harder and continue being yourself while trying to improve yourself. Again this negativity whatever the source does not define who you are. But if you want to be another good, hard working, humble, non egotistical doctor that some small part of the world needs, please find a way to continue.

Edit: and for the record I am happy at my residency. But I have had some tough days, we all do, but we don't talk about the real tough ones to each other and how it riddles us with insecurity because it's somewhat embarrassing. And I know there are more to come. But trust you are not totally alone in this, far from it.

 

[d2305]

“That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.”

 

[rokshana]

You also can't sit around and let nurses bully you. Stick up for yourself once and it will be done, continue the meek mannered Dr. Bit and it's going to be a long 3-5 years. Nurses complain about a lot of things and will try to bully new residents into doing a lot of things (sedating patients, ordering restraints, pain meds, icu transfers etc.)....ultimately you as the physician don't answer to the nurses.


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are you still in med school? you would be surprised at how much power those nurses have over residents...you do realize that while they call it 360 evaluations, it really isn't...the nurses can evaluate you, but you cannot evaluate them...and nurse will go to your PD quicker than you think with complaints..which can play a role in your overall evals...

and again perception can play a big role...and the nursing grapevine is fast and long reaching...get a rep (good or bad) and nurses you haven't even dealt with will have an opinion about you.

and like TG said...the attendings barely know you and they have known the nurses for much longer and have to deal with them for much longer... you may think that the attendings will have your back, but...