"Hygienist Practitioners"

[TucsonDDS]

My school was giving FLu shots during lunch. There was 2 lines. One line was the flu shots given by the nurse, the other was given by an MD. The nurse had to steal people from the MD's line because she had no patients. Just goes to show you the mentality that people have. Even though giving a flu shot is a SIMPLE procedure, people would rather have it done by an MD. Just a train of thought.

People are stupid. Nurses give more shots than the majority of doctors ever will. While working as an RN I have instructed 2 physicians on how to give their spouses Lovenox injections. Both docs told me that they hadn't given a shot since residency. Now what line would you want to stand in.

Where I used to work we had a doctor that would always want to start his own IVs and the patients always insisted on it. After 10 or so tries they would let a nurse do it and after about 2 minutes they would have a nice new line. The funiest thing was all of the patients would say, "You know Dr. Soandso graduated from Yale." Stupid people.

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[shazammer]

I've been reading this thread for a few days and having a few chuckles. For starters I am a hygienist with 40 years experience in 60 offices as a permanent temp.

People are stupid. Nurses give more shots than the majority of doctors ever will. While working as an RN I have instructed 2 physicians on how to give their spouses Lovenox injections. Both docs told me that they hadn't given a shot since residency. Now what line would you want to stand in.

Where I used to work we had a doctor that would always want to start his own IVs and the patients always insisted on it. After 10 or so tries they would let a nurse do it and after about 2 minutes they would have a nice new line. The funiest thing was all of the patients would say, "You know Dr. Soandso graduated from Yale." Stupid people.

I am a hygienist with 40 years experience in 60 offices as a permanent temp and fill in. I have seen it all. I have been reading this thread with humor. Though you boys are getting your undies in an uproar about independent practice and those few "rogue" hygienists whom you feel will be usurping your procedures, there are bigger and better things to worry about. Most of you should be tapping in to the existing websites manned by docs and hygienists who are already in the trenches and can quell your angst over the perceived
plunder of your profession.

I might say, though, that I was at the Denver Midwinter last January and walked in to a room full of hygienists being given a lecture on franchising of independent hygiene practices. THere are more than the "0" number of Dh's running their own successful practices as someone so unkowingly stated. THese hygienists are not carrying placards and walking demonstrations about their practices. They are just quietly and professionally carrying on what they do best under the auspices and support of those enlightened DDS' that see this as a perfectly viable way of treating those patients who prefer it.

I toured and was greatly impressed by 2 hygienists running such a practice in Durango, CO and did not talk to a single doc who felt threatened by this. And of course these women are not getting rich. Some people just prefer a little more autonomy.

As far as the ADA being such a great organization....I have never attended a lecture by a known speaker who felt the ADA wasn't just a bunch of hot air bags who never REALLY addressed the needs of the constituency. Get your facts straight before you start sending your hard earned bucks into the black hole of the ADA.

Well trained professionals who are not in hygiene JUST for the money are the people you must look for. Tech schools, in my opinion, have dumbed down and de-professionlized the majority of candidates they are sending out in to the world.
Training is the tip of the iceberg. Your employee needs to have well honed people skills, empathy, nurturance, extraordinary teaching capabilities, good humor, respect for you (earned, by the way), a hunger for continuing education, a belief you are the greatest dentist in the world (also earned) and the myriad qualities that make any health provider sought by the patients whom they serve.

This whole thread has a condescending tone to it that is being fed by individuals who have yet to even work with a superiorally qualifed or stupendously horrid hygienist. Where are you getting your stats?
Sign up for <dentaltown.com> and <hygienetown.com>
Some of your worst nightmares regarding your future employees will be realized on these sites, but you will also read what it is REALLY like once you don't have instructors peering over your shoulders every minute.

May I also say that those of you who think hygienists are overpaid should remember the first hygienist was trained by a dentist and it was his pay to her that set the bar.

The thing to remember is your hygienist will be all things you expect her to be. My most important training came after graduation from the most skilled and supportive employers I could have had the privilege to work for. You are the alpha in your office and you have to set the tone, raise the bar. You are the best mentor your employees will have and when I hear a DDS complain that his hygienist is not the employee he WISHES she would be I can only say that he has not put any effort into melding her into the philosophy of his office and has not put a nickle's worth of effort into elevating her to his level of care.
You are the advanced trainer she has to have. BE THAT PERSON.

 

[LSR1979]

I've been reading this thread for a few days and having a few chuckles. For starters I am a hygienist with 40 years experience in 60 offices as a permanent temp.

I am a hygienist with 40 years experience in 60 offices as a permanent temp and fill in. I have seen it all. I have been reading this thread with humor. Though you boys are getting your undies in an uproar about independent practice and those few "rogue" hygienists whom you feel will be usurping your procedures, there are bigger and better things to worry about. Most of you should be tapping in to the existing websites manned by docs and hygienists who are already in the trenches and can quell your angst over the perceived
plunder of your profession.

I might say, though, that I was at the Denver Midwinter last January and walked in to a room full of hygienists being given a lecture on franchising of independent hygiene practices. THere are more than the "0" number of Dh's running their own successful practices as someone so unkowingly stated. THese hygienists are not carrying placards and walking demonstrations about their practices. They are just quietly and professionally carrying on what they do best under the auspices and support of those enlightened DDS' that see this as a perfectly viable way of treating those patients who prefer it.

I toured and was greatly impressed by 2 hygienists running such a practice in Durango, CO and did not talk to a single doc who felt threatened by this. And of course these women are not getting rich. Some people just prefer a little more autonomy.

As far as the ADA being such a great organization....I have never attended a lecture by a known speaker who felt the ADA wasn't just a bunch of hot air bags who never REALLY addressed the needs of the constituency. Get your facts straight before you start sending your hard earned bucks into the black hole of the ADA.

Well trained professionals who are not in hygiene JUST for the money are the people you must look for. Tech schools, in my opinion, have dumbed down and de-professionlized the majority of candidates they are sending out in to the world.
Training is the tip of the iceberg. Your employee needs to have well honed people skills, empathy, nurturance, extraordinary teaching capabilities, good humor, respect for you (earned, by the way), a hunger for continuing education, a belief you are the greatest dentist in the world (also earned) and the myriad qualities that make any health provider sought by the patients whom they serve.

This whole thread has a condescending tone to it that is being fed by individuals who have yet to even work with a superiorally qualifed or stupendously horrid hygienist. Where are you getting your stats?
Sign up for <dentaltown.com> and <hygienetown.com>
Some of your worst nightmares regarding your future employees will be realized on these sites, but you will also read what it is REALLY like once you don't have instructors peering over your shoulders every minute.

May I also say that those of you who think hygienists are overpaid should remember the first hygienist was trained by a dentist and it was his pay to her that set the bar.

The thing to remember is your hygienist will be all things you expect her to be. My most important training came after graduation from the most skilled and supportive employers I could have had the privilege to work for. You are the alpha in your office and you have to set the tone, raise the bar. You are the best mentor your employees will have and when I hear a DDS complain that his hygienist is not the employee he WISHES she would be I can only say that he has not put any effort into melding her into the philosophy of his office and has not put a nickle's worth of effort into elevating her to his level of care.
You are the advanced trainer she has to have. BE THAT PERSON.

NOBODY IS RIPPING ON HYGENISTS AS PEOPLE. IF THEY WANT TO DO OPERATIVE/ENDO/EXTRACTIONS/ORTHO THAT IF FINE.....................AS LONG AS THEY GO BACK TO SCHOOL AND GET THEIR DDS AND ARE CALLED "DOCTOR." If they want to set up shop next door to me and ONLY scrape teeth with their own "autonomy" that if fine. But I did not spent 8+ years post high school and $250K to be undermined by somebody with an associates degree and a post menopausal power trip.

I feel like all the hygenists that want to do this are like those holiday inn express commercials.

PT: "Well 'Doctor' where did you learn to place half an arch of immediate load implants?"
HYGENIST: "Actually I've never done one myself........but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night."

 

[shazammer]

NOBODY IS RIPPING ON HYGENISTS AS PEOPLE. IF THEY WANT TO DO OPERATIVE/ENDO/EXTRACTIONS/ORTHO THAT IF FINE.....................AS LONG AS THEY GO BACK TO SCHOOL AND GET THEIR DDS AND ARE CALLED "DOCTOR." If they want to set up shop next door to me and ONLY scrape teeth with their own "autonomy" that if fine. But I did not spent 8+ years post high school and $250K to be undermined by somebody with an associates degree and a post menopausal power trip.

I feel like all the hygenists that want to do this are like those holiday inn express commercials.

PT: "Well 'Doctor' where did you learn to place half an arch of immediate load implants?"
HYGENIST: "Actually I've never done one myself........but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night."

THis is me post menopausally powertripping, Testosterone-boy. You are still in the insulated, albeit challenging, cocoon of academia. When you get into the real world of practicing dentistry I'll listen to your diatribes on what you consider rude, unfair, unjust, illegal etc., til then you are just a student with not a clue on the dynamics of office teamwork and the requirements for smooth office management. I repeat <dentaltown.com> to find out was'up.

 

[Slash]

When you get into the real world of practicing dentistry I'll listen to your diatribes on what you consider rude, unfair, unjust, illegal etc., til then you are just a student with not a clue on the dynamics of office teamwork and the requirements for smooth office management.

That may be the case. But you are just a grizzled dental hygienist 40+ years removed from her hygiene education with not a clue on the dynamics of a dental school education.

Look, hygienists can become whatever they want to be. If they want to be president of the United States, then more power to them. If they want to engage in more advanced procedures than scraping teeth I'm afraid they'll have to get that training in DENTAL SCHOOL. I imagine having to take organic chemistry and biochemistry as a prerequisite to dental school will knock out 90% of these "rogue hygienists."

 

[LSR1979]

THis is me post menopausally powertripping, Testosterone-boy. You are still in the insulated, albeit challenging, cocoon of academia. When you get into the real world of practicing dentistry I'll listen to your diatribes on what you consider rude, unfair, unjust, illegal etc., til then you are just a student with not a clue on the dynamics of office teamwork and the requirements for smooth office management. I repeat <dentaltown.com> to find out was'up.

Yes, I am JUST a student, thus I am posting on the STUDENT doctor network. And you are JUST a hygenist. Typically, I carefully read posts from Dentists who are in private practice as I find their information valuable. They have all been through dental school and can relate to those of us in the same situation. Nonetheless, this is a forum for and run by students. Therefore when some washed up old hag comes in shaking her wrinkled old finger at everybody, I must do this and . You should be more worried about hip fractures and bingo than the opinions of those in the "insulated cocoon of academia."

Back to the discussion at hand, nobody on this forum has degraded hygenists. I think everybody feels they are an integral part of a clinical team and worth their weight in gold. But they have limitations that they should not be encroaching upon. Those limitations end with a perio probe, a gracie curette, and 18 inches of dental floss.

 

[LSR1979]

For starters I am a hygienist with 40 years experience in 60 offices as a permanent temp.

 

[2thclnr]

Hello all! Don't attack me for what I am about to say, or stoop to name calling if you will. My cousin looks like the little boyscout in that picture -- was that supposed to be funny? Are you proud of picking on those with a medical problem? If so, wrong profession.
With that said, making someone feel insuperior to you will get you nowhere in the real world. Yes, I DO know the stresses dental students are under, I know alot of dental students and plan to be one myself. You might have a better education than I do currently, but you are by no means superior.

This reply was only for those who stoop to name calling. All other professionals please disregard. By the way, did I mention I love dentistry?

 

[molarama]

Firstly, to the individual who degraded the ADA and suggested we not join membership - complete nonsense. Please you're in no position to make such a statement. The majority of dental educators, c.e. "gurus" and other health professionals related to dentistry value the ADA. Sure the ADA can improve, but they have represented the dental profession quite well i.e. putting pressure on forming a national licensure exam, give kids a smile day, pro-fluoridation lobbying, management leadership scholarships for dentists, minority fellowships, etc etc. Ironically one of the things the ADA needs to do more strongly is lobby harder against the ADHA. Now when it comes to the ADHA, i know that they do not speak for a good number of hygienists who are content with their current role, and in fact do not want to undertake additional responsibilites because they are not trained to do so.
Now for those greedy hygienists, I have a story to tell.
I was interviewing for practices, one of which included my old dentist. At the beginning of the interview he re-introduced me to the staff. I asked where's Karen (the full-time hygienist). He told me she tried to start a "bidding war" between 4 local dentists for an increase in salary. So i assumed she went to the highest bidder. My doc tells me that all 4 dentists got fed up and simply refused to hire her. Now we live in a smallish size city, so she got stuck with commuting over an hour for her job.haha!!
Now for recalls and hygiene, my doc does it, and he ended up training an assistant to replace some of the hygienists' roles. And by the way those hygienists that cry about taking medical history, etc, please we all know that the slightest complexity in med hx, we end up doing all of it anyways...but that's ok, because we're the ones who are trained in pharmacology and medicine to do so. So anyways, yes the dentist saved quite a bit of $$ in getting rid of the hygienists salary, and even though his overall production went down, he said the financial hit he took was much less than what he thought it would be. He said the minor financial decrease was well worth it, "for the sake of the profession." The assistant, who's been there for over 15 yrs. got promoted and now provides the oral hygiene instruction, takes xrays, "med history" bp/pulse and then doc slides in and does the cleaning +/- restorative work.
Now if I accept his offer I am planning on documenting this situation, to demonstrate that hygienists are not worth keeping past "x" amount of dollars. Sure this is not practical for some offices, but for a 1 or 2 doctor practice, it seems to be easier than we may think. What the heck I wouldn't mind doing a scale n prophy in between endo and restorative.

Moral of the story, that's what you gotta do sometimes when people get greedy. Cut them off. Then watch them crawling back (in case you're wondering yes she came crawling back - but got no for an answer again).

 

[molarama]

shazammer you have some valid points such as the need for skilled teamwork between dentist and hygienist. I have seen several great examples of this, including my mentor/clinical instructor who has had the same hygienist for over 30 years (they both graduated from the same school same year). I'm sure 99% of dental students desire such a win-win relationship.

But it's quite funny to me how you're referencing dentaltown and so-called "known speakers"??? If you think that adds credibility to your post in any way you're way off. I too have experience with several conferences including dentaltown. Regarding hygienists, what's discussed there is always about increasing efficiency of hygiene within it's current scope and practice (supervised by a dentist and doing hygiene + pt. education). Now b/f you go off and assume I'm in the cocoon of academia, I practiced general dentistry for 3 years before specializing.

Let's try to keep this thread respectful. One thing I admired about many dental practices was that they were more respectful and team-oriented than visits to medical practices, which seemed to have more tension in the air b/w nurses, MDs, and assistants, etc.

 

[2thclnr]

Thank you LSR1979 for changing pic!

This is written so that those of you looking at an empty room right now will know that I am sane and there was a different pic at one time. Alright, the sanity part is debateable, and probably so is my spelling on that word! By the way .......(fill in blank)........?

 

[2thclnr]

By the way, is 1979 when you were born? OMG I feel old!!

 

[12YearOldKid]

I haven't seen any disrespectful attitudes towards hygienists on this thread. We all appreciate the role hygienists play.

I think the direct attacks on Shazammer were a little over the top; I have read a lot of her posts on DentalTown and she has some great insight into the dentist/hygienist relationship and dentistry in general. But she is wrong in this instance. The ADA is just about the ONLY way we have of protecting our profession from well-meaning but misguided politicians. There are only ~150,000 active dentists in the U.S. That is a demographic so small as to be almost inconsequential to a politician. It is only as a coherent group that we even register as a blip on the radar.

"Hygienist practitioners" may not be the most pressing issue facing dentistry today but some political activism now can keep this from EVER becoming a major issue.

 

[TucsonDDS]

I've been reading this thread for a few days and having a few chuckles. For starters I am a hygienist with 40 years experience in 60 offices as a permanent temp.

I am a hygienist with 40 years experience in 60 offices as a permanent temp and fill in. I have seen it all. I have been reading this thread with humor. Though you boys are getting your undies in an uproar about independent practice and those few "rogue" hygienists whom you feel will be usurping your procedures, there are bigger and better things to worry about. Most of you should be tapping in to the existing websites manned by docs and hygienists who are already in the trenches and can quell your angst over the perceived
plunder of your profession.

I might say, though, that I was at the Denver Midwinter last January and walked in to a room full of hygienists being given a lecture on franchising of independent hygiene practices. THere are more than the "0" number of Dh's running their own successful practices as someone so unkowingly stated. THese hygienists are not carrying placards and walking demonstrations about their practices. They are just quietly and professionally carrying on what they do best under the auspices and support of those enlightened DDS' that see this as a perfectly viable way of treating those patients who prefer it.

I toured and was greatly impressed by 2 hygienists running such a practice in Durango, CO and did not talk to a single doc who felt threatened by this. And of course these women are not getting rich. Some people just prefer a little more autonomy.

As far as the ADA being such a great organization....I have never attended a lecture by a known speaker who felt the ADA wasn't just a bunch of hot air bags who never REALLY addressed the needs of the constituency. Get your facts straight before you start sending your hard earned bucks into the black hole of the ADA.

Well trained professionals who are not in hygiene JUST for the money are the people you must look for. Tech schools, in my opinion, have dumbed down and de-professionlized the majority of candidates they are sending out in to the world.
Training is the tip of the iceberg. Your employee needs to have well honed people skills, empathy, nurturance, extraordinary teaching capabilities, good humor, respect for you (earned, by the way), a hunger for continuing education, a belief you are the greatest dentist in the world (also earned) and the myriad qualities that make any health provider sought by the patients whom they serve.

This whole thread has a condescending tone to it that is being fed by individuals who have yet to even work with a superiorally qualifed or stupendously horrid hygienist. Where are you getting your stats?
Sign up for <dentaltown.com> and <hygienetown.com>
Some of your worst nightmares regarding your future employees will be realized on these sites, but you will also read what it is REALLY like once you don't have instructors peering over your shoulders every minute.

May I also say that those of you who think hygienists are overpaid should remember the first hygienist was trained by a dentist and it was his pay to her that set the bar.

The thing to remember is your hygienist will be all things you expect her to be. My most important training came after graduation from the most skilled and supportive employers I could have had the privilege to work for. You are the alpha in your office and you have to set the tone, raise the bar. You are the best mentor your employees will have and when I hear a DDS complain that his hygienist is not the employee he WISHES she would be I can only say that he has not put any effort into melding her into the philosophy of his office and has not put a nickle's worth of effort into elevating her to his level of care.
You are the advanced trainer she has to have. BE THAT PERSON.

I am not sure if you are responding to my post or not. For the record I don't think that hygienists are overpaid. Do I wish I could get one to work of $15/hour, sure I do. But then I would rather have a hygienist that knew that I respected them and knew that they could support their family and could put their efforts into building my practice along with me instead of leaving for the next dentist who was willing to pay $16/hr or picking up a second job. Hygienists are professionals and should be compensated appropriately.

Now for the question at hand. Hygienists are not dentists. Hygienists should not be doing restorations. Hygienists should not be doing anything out of their scope of practice. JUST like Dentists should not be anything out of their scope of practice. Sure dentists could make more money (and some do) by giving Botox injections, but that doesn't make it ethical or legal. Bottom line, if hygienists want more freedom in their scope of practice they should go back to school and become a dentist.

Now the other question is if they should be allowed to practice on their own. I don't have a problem with it as long as they are practicing within their scope of practice and have a dentist on hand in case of an emergency. I don't have a problem with it as long as they are not putting their patients at risk. Now why they would want to do it I have no idea other than being their own bosses. I don't think that the ones practicing on their own are in it for the money, I think that they are in it for the autonomy.

 

[mike3kgt]

Admit it dude, of course you would love it if ur girlfriend got a boob-job

Haha, yeah, I guess you're right The funny thing is, she's a 2nd year dental student and her family makes fun that she should get them so patient's would be even happier when they "are all up in her business" during dental procedures. Is there an ADA code for that??

-Mike

 

[mike3kgt]

Now the other question is if they should be allowed to practice on their own. I don't have a problem with it as long as they are practicing within their scope of practice and have a dentist on hand in case of an emergency. I don't have a problem with it as long as they are not putting their patients at risk. Now why they would want to do it I have no idea other than being their own bosses. I don't think that the ones practicing on their own are in it for the money, I think that they are in it for the autonomy.

Be careful when saying this. This would also imply that hygienists are fully capable of diagnosis & treatment planning cases. When do dentists discover most pathology on patients of record? The hygiene appointment of course!

What about if I ask this question. Is it possible the ADHA is coming out so strong on the ADHP program to entice the ADA and dentists to settle for "oh I don't care if they practice indepedently as long as they are not performing irrevesible procedures & restorative work"?

I love hygienists and we have a few truly talented ones at my school (one has been featured on the cover of RDH). You can really learn a lot from these wonderful people. Would they be talented at performing dentistry other than hygiene? Maybe, but I'd be very concerned. Just as I would not want my dentist (many who 99% of the time does not do perio) do my cleaning, I would not want my hygienist (who does 99% of my perio) do my restorative work.

I just support stability in scope of practice. Dentists stick to dentistry, hygienists to hygiene, assistants to assisting.

-Mike

 

[toothfairy14]

my $.02 :

Hygienists are definitely overpaid. They are the highest paid professionals with an associates degree and most make more than individuals with a four year degree (mostly liberal arts majors ). It is mainly because of supply and demand.

Something needs to be down to flood the market. Open more schools; get more high school kids interested, something. Once, the market is flooded the power then gets sifted. Hygienist won’t be able to demand such large salaries and DOCTORS won’t have to pay them. Pure economics………..so if anyone is in a pre-dental club take a trip to the local high school to get students interested and do your part in helping bringing down hygienists’ salaries.

Just my $.02

 

[2thclnr]

I do not believe I am overpaid at all. My salary is based on my production and I also recieve bonuses. I earn what I make. If I work hard, my paycheck reflects that, if I piss the day away, my paycheck reflects that.

Some pay is based on where you live. In small rural towns we might only make $20.00/hr, in Seattle it's about double. Seattle is not a cheap place to live. My sister-in-law paid 1500.00 to rent an attic, an attic!!

In St. Louis you can make $25.00 - $30.00/hr. Cheaper to live than Seattle, but housing is going crazy around here, so I am sure cost of living will rise here too.

Flood the market, just talk any person into becoming a hygienist, and you will get people just doing it for the money, not because they love what they are doing. In the long run that could be bad for business. As a patient I left many practices where the hygienist was substandard. I have to see her more than the dentist so I base my decision on whether or not I like her first. Then I will try out the dentist. Usually I like the dentist no matter what.

I am not saying that money was not an issue, but that is not really the big deciding factor on whether or not I take a job. I went down in pay once just to get full time. But there were no benefits, barely even dental - can you imagine? Big things for me are, Does the WIFE work there? (RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) How long do people last in this office? Is the dentist fun at all? What is the quality of care? What equipment is there? Is the office clean? These are just a few questions.

Mike - I like the last line you wrote!!

 

[drhobie7]

I do not believe I am overpaid at all. My salary is based on my production and I also recieve bonuses. I earn what I make. If I work hard, my paycheck reflects that, if I piss the day away, my paycheck reflects that.

Some pay is based on where you live. In small rural towns we might only make $20.00/hr, in Seattle it's about double. Seattle is not a cheap place to live. My sister-in-law paid 1500.00 to rent an attic, an attic!!

In St. Louis you can make $25.00 - $30.00/hr. Cheaper to live than Seattle, but housing is going crazy around here, so I am sure cost of living will rise here too.

Flood the market, just talk any person into becoming a hygienist, and you will get people just doing it for the money, not because they love what they are doing. In the long run that could be bad for business. As a patient I left many practices where the hygienist was substandard. I have to see her more than the dentist so I base my decision on whether or not I like her first. Then I will try out the dentist. Usually I like the dentist no matter what.

I am not saying that money was not an issue, but that is not really the big deciding factor on whether or not I take a job. I went down in pay once just to get full time. But there were no benefits, barely even dental - can you imagine? Big things for me are, Does the WIFE work there? (RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) How long do people last in this office? Is the dentist fun at all? What is the quality of care? What equipment is there? Is the office clean? These are just a few questions.

Mike - I like the last line you wrote!!

Where I'm from (Santa Barbara, CA) many hygienists get paid $400-500 per day. Flat rate, no commissions. I think that's absurdly high.

Also, I thinky most of them are in it for the money. Or is it the challenge and joy of scraping teeth? One of the problems with dental hygiene is it is a relatively mindless task and hygienists eventually become bored with it. I've talked with plenty of hygienists and this has been their primary complaint with their jobs. This is probably a significant factor behind their desire to broaden their job description.

 

[2thclnr]

Mindless? Then they must be just churning out patients without regard to their needs. Every patient is interesting and unique, and I have been doing this for 13 years, so I know. Do they get time to know their patients? Learning about your patients can make the day very interesting and can also benefit the patient and the practice. It sounds like they just do it for the money, which should be a bonus to being in this field, not the sole reason.
Also, I am very thorough and take the time to make sure the patient is comfortable. I have never had a patient tell me I am hurting them, and I have only had compliments from my doctor on how thorough I am.
If you always have the patient in mind - it cannot be mindless!!!

 

[adamlc18]

I also regularly browse the forums at DT and since someone who will remain nameless wanted everyone to go over and look at DT, I thought I would provide the link to a thread about this thread here on SDN:

http://www.dentaltown.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=58589&sessionID={6B649CB5-7EE0-4AC5-A26C-0E84BA90E51B}

I thought it was funny that she decided to complain about us over there!

 

[Slash]

I've been hearing more and more that dental assistants want to expand their scope and begin doing hygiene procedures. Dental assistants feel they know enough about dentistry to just jump right into hygiene and begin scraping teeth clean without having to go to hygiene school.

 

[2thclnr]

And trust me they do not. I was an assistant. I knew to anticipate what the doctor wanted next and clean the room to set up for the next patient. Yeah, I polished kids here and there, but I even believe that is pushing it. Children do get calculus on their teeth and I almost die when I see an assistant grab a spoon excavater to try to remove it.

I know a hell of a lot more now that I am a hygienist. I used to think all they did was scrape teeth, I was of that mentality, I know better now.

 

[LSR1979]

And trust me they do not. I was an assistant. I knew to anticipate what the doctor wanted next and clean the room to set up for the next patient. Yeah, I polished kids here and there, but I even believe that is pushing it. Children do get calculus on their teeth and I almost die when I see an assistant grab a spoon excavater to try to remove it.

I know a hell of a lot more now that I am a hygienist. I used to think all they did was scrape teeth, I was of that mentality, I know better now.

And the way you feel about assistants doing a prophy is the same way I feel about hygienists doing restorative work. No offense intended, but hopefully this is all making sense now that we are comparing apples to apples.

 

[DrJeff]

I do not believe I am overpaid at all. My salary is based on my production and I also recieve bonuses. I earn what I make. If I work hard, my paycheck reflects that, if I piss the day away, my paycheck reflects that.

Some pay is based on where you live. In small rural towns we might only make $20.00/hr, in Seattle it's about double. Seattle is not a cheap place to live. My sister-in-law paid 1500.00 to rent an attic, an attic!!

In St. Louis you can make $25.00 - $30.00/hr. Cheaper to live than Seattle, but housing is going crazy around here, so I am sure cost of living will rise here too.

Flood the market, just talk any person into becoming a hygienist, and you will get people just doing it for the money, not because they love what they are doing. In the long run that could be bad for business. As a patient I left many practices where the hygienist was substandard. I have to see her more than the dentist so I base my decision on whether or not I like her first. Then I will try out the dentist. Usually I like the dentist no matter what.

I am not saying that money was not an issue, but that is not really the big deciding factor on whether or not I take a job. I went down in pay once just to get full time. But there were no benefits, barely even dental - can you imagine? Big things for me are, Does the WIFE work there? (RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) How long do people last in this office? Is the dentist fun at all? What is the quality of care? What equipment is there? Is the office clean? These are just a few questions.

Mike - I like the last line you wrote!!

As the dentist/boss type here, I can honestly say that there's plenty of $$ for both parties in a properly run office/hygiene department. By the time my hygienists total hourly compensation(hourly wage, medical ins, retirement $$ - our senior hygienists each got over $10,000 in retirement contributions last year in our profit sharing plan , CE allowances and uniform $$) is figured out, it works out to be in the $45/hour range. Alot of $$, yes, but my partner and I are then splitting another $45 an hour or so per hygenist, and a third $45 and hour covers overhead. That takes care of our fees for a prophy + bitewings + exam.

That doesn't even get into the "extra" money that my hygenists are generating if scaling is done, sub gingival anti-microbials are administered or bleaching is sold. And that really doesn't get into the work for me to do that my hygienists find/talk up before I get into the operatory.

Hygenists do make a very good amount of money, however, you as the dentist will also make alot of money off of hygiene!

 

[2thclnr]

And the way you feel about assistants doing a prophy is the same way I feel about hygienists doing restorative work. No offense intended, but hopefully this is all making sense now that we are comparing apples to apples.

If you will notice I, for the most part, have agreed with your positions. It has made sense all along, the only real problem I have had is with a certain pic.

 

[2thclnr]

Dr. Jeff, you are a highly intelligent dentist!!! Wish I lived in CT so I could work for you. I live in IL and fly over the border to St. Louis to make money and work for dentists that value a good hygienist. I have one dentist that wants me to be his partner as soon as I am able to have DDS after my name. Can't wait!

 

[DrJeff]

Dr. Jeff, you are a highly intelligent dentist!!! Wish I lived in CT so I could work for you. I live in IL and fly over the border to St. Louis to make money and work for dentists that value a good hygienist. I have one dentist that wants me to be his partner as soon as I am able to have DDS after my name. Can't wait!

There is this big perception amongst some people in this profession that there should be hard and fast seperation between the dentist(s)/hygenists/ assistants and front office personel.

I tend to think completely opposite of that(and my partner does too) that we as an office are a team where you need to have integration (and respect) between everyone in the office. I realize that if my entire office is a part of what makes my practice as successful as it is. If one of my assistants is being a PITA(Pain In The A$$) to one of the other members of the office or a patient, then that affects the patient perception and thus treatment in the office. If one of my hygenists thinks I'm being a doofus, I want to know about it, because that effects how the office operates.

When each member of the office is working together and doing what the parameters of their job requires, then everyone benefits because the practice does well!

 

[dentalsurgeon2b]

There is this big perception amongst some people in this profession that there should be hard and fast seperation between the dentist(s)/hygenists/ assistants and front office personel.

I tend to think completely opposite of that(and my partner does too) that we as an office are a team where you need to have integration (and respect) between everyone in the office. I realize that if my entire office is a part of what makes my practice as successful as it is. If one of my assistants is being a PITA(Pain In The A$$) to one of the other members of the office or a patient, then that affects the patient perception and thus treatment in the office. If one of my hygenists thinks I'm being a doofus, I want to know about it, because that effects how the office operates.

When each member of the office is working together and doing what the parameters of their job requires, then everyone benefits because the practice does well!

I agree with 2thclnr, DrJeff. I have read your posts and think you are not only highly intelligent but must be fun to work with. I hope my boyfriend finds a position as an associate with a dentist like you.

Sometimes I wonder if office dynamics is the same with a female dentist. Certainly, there must be jealousies of some sort. I hope I am not the victim of any jealous co-workers when I graduate and go into private practice. I see myself as a cooperative and tolerant person but sometimes, it doesn't matter how good you are, some women are bound to be envious regardless of how you treat them.

In my boyfriend's office, most gals are always gossiping between each other as oppose to doing their jobs properly. I guess they were easy on him because he was a guy and even were flirtatious with him.

 

[molarama]

There is this big perception amongst some people in this profession that there should be hard and fast seperation between the dentist(s)/hygenists/ assistants and front office personel.

I tend to think completely opposite of that(and my partner does too) that we as an office are a team where you need to have integration (and respect) between everyone in the office. I realize that if my entire office is a part of what makes my practice as successful as it is. If one of my assistants is being a PITA(Pain In The A$$) to one of the other members of the office or a patient, then that affects the patient perception and thus treatment in the office. If one of my hygenists thinks I'm being a doofus, I want to know about it, because that effects how the office operates.

When each member of the office is working together and doing what the parameters of their job requires, then everyone benefits because the practice does well!

Dr. Jeff, thanks for the informative posts. I think I speak for most of the SDNers and agree that of course the team philosophy in all of health care works out best for both providers and patients.

Perhaps you may have missed the point of the thread - the ADHA lobbying to allow hygienists to "perform diagnostic, restorative and therapeutic procedures on patients." Irreversible, potentially invasive procedures.
That is where the disagreement is.

The whole work as a team, warm n fuzzy philosophy I agree wholeheartedly, and that's what's being taught in dental school. But c'mon we're talking about the scope of hygiene, scope of dentistry here.

This is where the disagreement is.

 

[DrJeff]

Dr. Jeff, thanks for the informative posts. I think I speak for most of the SDNers and agree that of course the team philosophy in all of health care works out best for both providers and patients.

Perhaps you may have missed the point of the thread - the ADHA lobbying to allow hygienists to "perform diagnostic, restorative and therapeutic procedures on patients." Irreversible, potentially invasive procedures.
That is where the disagreement is.

The whole work as a team, warm n fuzzy philosophy I agree wholeheartedly, and that's what's being taught in dental school. But c'mon we're talking about the scope of hygiene, scope of dentistry here.

This is where the disagreement is.

Reread post #48 of this thread(page 2) that I wrote, especially the LAST paragraph and you'll see where I stand on this topic. My posts about everyone being aprt of a team were because this thread was turning into a us vs. them thread, and in the big picture, everyone in the office needs to function as a team and perform their respective duties.

 

[nonmaleficence]

Yes, I am JUST a student, thus I am posting on the STUDENT doctor network. And you are JUST a hygenist. Typically, I carefully read posts from Dentists who are in private practice as I find their information valuable. They have all been through dental school and can relate to those of us in the same situation. Nonetheless, this is a forum for and run by students. Therefore when some washed up old hag comes in shaking her wrinkled old finger at everybody, I must do this and . You should be more worried about hip fractures and bingo than the opinions of those in the "insulated cocoon of academia."

Back to the discussion at hand, nobody on this forum has degraded hygenists. I think everybody feels they are an integral part of a clinical team and worth their weight in gold. But they have limitations that they should not be encroaching upon. Those limitations end with a perio probe, a gracie curette, and 18 inches of dental floss.

First of all student DDS, I AM a student hygienst and I will be graduating in May from a 3 year acredited program. I was accepted into McGill (Montreal Canada) school of dentisty, but decided to go into hygiene instead.I have great respect for many dentists that I have had the oportunity to meet with. I want to say that "the washed up old hag" might one day be the most valuable member of your dental team, and I don't think that any future women or men in your practice would apreciate your condescending comments. As you know, nothing replaces real hands on experience when it comes to learning...so, maybe the "old hag" knows a thing or two that even you don't know. Maybe she could teach you!

The difference between a hygienist and a dentist is what they want to focus on in terms of client care; a hygienist will focus on prevention, while a dentist will focus their care on restorative. It is 100% a team effort, we work hand in hand to provide the best possible care to our clients.
Here in Montreal where I live there is a severe shortage of RDH's, if a dentist could do all the work themselves, why is it that we are in such demand? why dont dentists all over the world give up their hygienists? The answer is they wont...hygienists are to valuable to their practice...a client will be more inclined to listen to the hygienist when it the need for a dental procedure is indicated because they trust us: *we aren't in it for the money, *we can be frank with them and, *the client see's us more often than the dentist. In short, we develop a raport with our clients that many dentists will never achieve.
I don't think that an autonomous hygiene practice would infringe on the scope of practice, I think it would allow for better preventitive care for clients, and would allow for more time for the dentists to do their procedures without having to supervise a majority of op's. Of course the autonomous hygienist would refer out for clients with dental needs....we arent stupid!

I just think it would be more economical for a client to have re-care appointments for hygiene without having to wait for the DDS...especially for clients with a low caries risk, I would still recommend an annual visit to the DDS for aditional follow up.

By the way, we use Gracey's (not gracies)!

 

[drhobie7]

We use Gracey's (not gracies)!

I believe the plural of gracey is graceys (not gracey's. that would be the possessive).

p.s. Why would you choose a 3 year hygiene school if you were accepted into a 4 year dental school? Sounds crazy to me.

 

[Slash]

I was accepted into McGill (Montreal Canada) school of dentisty, but decided to go into hygiene instead.

And I was once asked to be the CEO of a corporation but chose to work in the mailroom instead.

Look, I value hygienists for what they are....HYGIENISTS. Fact is the majority of hygienists chose that field because the pay is decent and the educational requirement was minimal as compared to other fields. While a few may truly "love" to clean teeth (which I seriously doubt), the vast majority of hygienists I know didn't enter hygiene for that reason but rather the relatively light work-weeks and decent pay. Anyhow, the quality of student that enters hygiene school is academically inferior to the quality of student that enters dental school. Let's keep it real here. It is what it is. Hygiene is hygiene, plain and simple. If hygienists don't like it, they can find their nearest university and start working on their bachleors degree, take the required prereq science classes, take the DAT, and apply to dental school just like the rest of the actual dental students do. It's a free country, so by all means knock yourself out hygienists. You should not get a cheap ticket into doing more advanced dental procedures without having the formal education and training to do so. It's not rocket science ladies.

 

[Bifid Uvula]

First of all student DDS, I AM a student hygienst and I will be graduating in May from a 3 year acredited program. I was accepted into McGill (Montreal Canada) school of dentisty, but decided to go into hygiene instead.I have great respect for many dentists that I have had the oportunity to meet with. I want to say that "the washed up old hag" might one day be the most valuable member of your dental team, and I don't think that any future women or men in your practice would apreciate your condescending comments. As you know, nothing replaces real hands on experience when it comes to learning...so, maybe the "old hag" knows a thing or two that even you don't know. Maybe she could teach you!

The difference between a hygienist and a dentist is what they want to focus on in terms of client care; a hygienist will focus on prevention, while a dentist will focus their care on restorative. It is 100% a team effort, we work hand in hand to provide the best possible care to our clients.
Here in Montreal where I live there is a severe shortage of RDH's, if a dentist could do all the work themselves, why is it that we are in such demand? why dont dentists all over the world give up their hygienists? The answer is they wont...hygienists are to valuable to their practice...a client will be more inclined to listen to the hygienist when it the need for a dental procedure is indicated because they trust us: *we aren't in it for the money, *we can be frank with them and, *the client see's us more often than the dentist. In short, we develop a raport with our clients that many dentists will never achieve.
I don't think that an autonomous hygiene practice would infringe on the scope of practice, I think it would allow for better preventitive care for clients, and would allow for more time for the dentists to do their procedures without having to supervise a majority of op's. Of course the autonomous hygienist would refer out for clients with dental needs....we arent stupid!

I just think it would be more economical for a client to have re-care appointments for hygiene without having to wait for the DDS...especially for clients with a low caries risk, I would still recommend an annual visit to the DDS for aditional follow up.

By the way, we use Gracey's (not gracies)!

Let me get this straight. You were accepted to dental school, so that probably means that you completed a 4 year bachelor's degree. Then you decided to go to a 3 year hygiene program instead? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!

Hygienists are in demand because there is a lot of work to be done, and quite frankly that job sucks....especially when it comes to your class III and IV patients. This is the reason hygienists want to expand their scope of practice as well...

Nobody is calling you stupid, but you just can't say "we'll refer out clients with dental needs" You just simply do not have the entire picture, scope and training of a dentist to make ALL the judgement calls necessary for proper patient care. Believe me your patients will come to you with questions that you just won't be able to answer. Its hard enough to make some decisions even as a doctor.

The bottom line is, expanding hygiene's scope of practice to practice "unsupervised" is bad. Its bad for the patient, Its bad for the dentist, and it is bad for the hygienist as well.

The stewardess/flight-attendant is there for the safety and well-being of the passengers on the plane. They are great at what they do. But they aren't pushing to become pilots without going to flight school....

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

And to think that the whole time I thought we were talking about periodontists...

 

[QTpieDMD]

And I was once asked to be the CEO of a corporation but chose to work in the mailroom instead.

Look, I value hygienists for what they are....HYGIENISTS. Fact is the majority of hygienists chose that field because the pay is decent and the educational requirement was minimal as compared to other fields. While a few may truly "love" to clean teeth (which I seriously doubt), the vast majority of hygienists I know didn't enter hygiene for that reason but rather the relatively light work-weeks and decent pay. Anyhow, the quality of student that enters hygiene school is academically inferior to the quality of student that enters dental school. Let's keep it real here. It is what it is. Hygiene is hygiene, plain and simple. If hygienists don't like it, they can find their nearest university and start working on their bachleors degree, take the required prereq science classes, take the DAT, and apply to dental school just like the rest of the actual dental students do. It's a free country, so by all means knock yourself out hygienists. You should not get a cheap ticket into doing more advanced dental procedures without having the formal education and training to do so. It's not rocket science ladies.

Come on now, you guys are mean. I've worked as a dental assistant since I was 14 and I almost can't imagine working with/for some of the people on this board by their condescending attitudes. The egotism that is ramped throughout dental school and amont dentists is absolutely ridiculous and I really feel offended.

What makes me so angry sometimes is I feel a lot of dental students have this superiority about them and I believe many wouldn't be in dental school if it wasn't for a parent/close family member in the profession already or money in the family. Everyone here is a person and how dare anyone put another person down, especially someone who is working with him or her! You don't know anyone's circumstances or reasons for choosing what he or she does.

I really have to thank Dr. Jeff for saying this but please, please people it is so important to keep in mind that mutual respect is absolutely vital to keep a healthy work environment. I couldn't get over being a high school student going to a convention and seeing how dentists were so incredibly condescending. They had no idea I was only 17 and accepted into an accelerated BS/DMD program. All they saw was a black female walking around with the badge and label printed 'dental assistant' (and not certified at that).

I love what I've done, I love what I'm going to be able to do and I made the decision with a lot of love and support from my family. If I didn't have that at home, I might not be where I am now. We really need to have some more respect for hygienists and assistants as dental professionals even if they haven't gone through an undergrad degree or a doctoral program. I don't agree with the hygienists practitioner program but geez people.

 

[cbupnorth]

And here we are again and the NEVER ending debate of DENTIST VS HYGIENIST.

Will it ever end. NEVER. As for all of you who imply that you are not belittling hyg---B&**. Thats the only thing that has really sunk in in dental school.

I went to dental school, I started out there and decided that: 1) i couldn't afford it---boy was I stupid. Should of maxed out the loans. 2) I wanted more at the time---hence forth ---more would of been completing dental school. 3)I loved dentistry so I finished out in hygiene and have been there for the last 25 years!!!

I just began to work for a YOUNGER doctor. In the past 11 years I worked for a older doctor who was killed in a motorcycle accident!! (May 29th). The degree of difference is amazing!!! You guys who think that you are all that will learn, once graduated, of your fragileness. You think that you have the world by the balls but in reality----you have ALOT to learn. Book smarts does not mean that you have the ability to run a very successful practice. If that was the case all you guys would open your practices the minute you hit the pavement---but tell me how many of you with be associates LONG before you are you own boss!!

You sit here and bash the OLD HAG---well here I am, start bashing. I in no means want to fill holes and do pulps and run my own business. I don't want to do extractions and nor do I want to make 200,000 dollars. I do however demand and get the respect that I do by doing my job well and respecting the boss and those around me---including the assistants. You guys that think that you are the only one that deserve respect are gonna go through ALOT of headaches and ALOT of staff with the attitudes that I am hearing out on this tread. You think that spending alot of money and passing some difficult classes gives you the right to belittle those who don't have YOUR degree, are full of it---and will find the real world a difficult place to live.

School is school and the real world are verydifferent places. I hope that this thread is just alot of hot air because if you all are really planning to carry these ideas into real practice I hope that you enjoy tooth scraping and enjoy being a jerk because that is what you will be.

I just love the way supply and demand always comes up in this type of thread--it has nothing to do with it. Bottom line is what one of you guys said---Dentists became dentists to raise a family and become wealthy --unlike other professions. And unlike other professions they have a VERY difficult retaing staff because of their own greed---Greed is a very ugly thing ---just like you believe hygienists are!!!

 

[sjdent]

I have nothing new to add....ok, except this....very basically, I've always thought to myself....Why in the hell don't hygienists just go to freakin' dental school?!?! If they feel so damn inferior to us (yes, you do, or you wouldn't be so pissed off), DO SOMETHING about it. You have had every opportunity to go to dental school....same as us! Make it happen!

 

[QTpieDMD]

I have nothing new to add....ok, except this....very basically, I've always thought to myself....Why in the hell don't hygienists just go to freakin' dental school?!?! If they feel so damn inferior to us (yes, you do, or you wouldn't be so pissed off), DO SOMETHING about it. You have had every opportunity to go to dental school....same as us! Make it happen!

Read, two posts above please.

 

[sjdent]

Read, two posts above please.

Umm....I did....

 

[12YearOldKid]

Dentists became dentists to raise a family and become wealthy --unlike other professions. And unlike other professions they have a VERY difficult retaing staff because of their own greed---Greed is a very ugly thing ---just like you believe hygienists are!!!

This is one of the stupidest things I have read on this website --- and there are a lot of stupid things to be found on this website. ( many of them posted by me. )

Most of us just want to talk about the propriety of "hygiene practitioners". It is only a very few insecure hygienists and dental students with something to prove who insist on making this into a chest thumping, loogie-spitting, long distance pissing contest.

 

[cbupnorth]

Its a war. A competition for resources. This happens as you rightfully point out in every profession. This is where you make sure you join the ADA. The ADA has been an exceptionally good professional association. Dentistry has thrived whereas medicine has withered. Remember men who wanted to support a family and get wealthy went into dentistry. That's the model that built this profession.

Your right---VERY STUPID---one of your own said it

 

[12YearOldKid]

FWIW, I think some of the dental students are being a little harsh on the hygienists. Some of you are assuming there is some sort of social hierarchy within dentistry that goes assistant<hygienist<periodontist<dentist. That's just not the case. All these roles need to be filled and people tend to choose the role that they feel fits them best.

Most hygienists didn't go to hygiene school because they were failed pre-dents. They went to hygiene school because they wanted to be hygienists. There are plenty of very intelligent and caring hygienists out there who could easily have gone to dental school if they had chosen to continue their education. Possibly taking the place of some of the *****s who do get into dental school every year.

But the fact that they are smart enough to have become dentists isn't enough to justify them acting in the role of a dentist. There are literally millions of people out there who could have gone to dental school. But they didn't. The "hygiene practitioner" model is an attempt to bypass the most important part of a dental education - the education. Four years of college and four years of dental school is BARELY enough education to make a new dentist safe to release on the public. Anything less than that is foolishness.

I know this is hard for those of you who have not gone to dental school to understand, but dentistry is an incredibly complex and demanding discipline. It is a heckuva lot more involved than making holes in teeth and filling them. What the independent hygiene practices and "hygienist practitioner" phenomena do is break up the complex and interdependent aspects of dentistry and separate everything into little factory jobs. Who is looking out for the overall dental health of the patient when you go to one hygienist for a cleaning, you go to a highly educated hygienist for fillings, you go to a regular dentist for crown and bridge, etc...? The dentist all of a sudden becomes just another factory worker doing the work referred to him and nobody is looking at the big picture.

This places too much burden on the patient to determine his own needs. That is why we have defined a minimum level of education that is needed to manage a patient's total dental needs. Not necessarily someone who can meet all those needs himself, but someone who is capable of developing and presenting a comprehensive treatment plan. Any educational program that can provide that level of training would have to be at least equivalent to the current dental school curriculum. And any program that trains to that level should just go ahead and award a dental degree to graduates of the program. Which would make it....

are you ready?


... A DENTAL SCHOOL.

 

[sjdent]

Some of you are assuming there is some sort of social hierarchy within dentistry that goes assistant<hygienist<periodontist<dentist. That's just not the case. All these roles need to be filled and people tend to choose the role that they feel fits them best.

So you're suggesting that dentists aren't at the top of the dental office "heirarchy?" Wow, really?? I would have to disagree. We really aren't equals, and I mean that WITHOUT any malice towards hygienists, who make up a very important part of dental practices.

 

[Rezdawg]

Book smarts does not mean that you have the ability to run a very successful practice. If that was the case all you guys would open your practices the minute you hit the pavement---but tell me how many of you with be associates LONG before you are you own boss!!

Who said it was easy to go out into the real world and run a successful practice? Did anyone say that or are you making assumptions? Yeah, you made the assumption. Good job.

Every dental student knows that there is a difference between school and the real world.

 

[12YearOldKid]

I know some of you are going to argue that an independent hygienist or the as-yet-non-existent "hygiene practitioner" can simply refer to a dentist when it is needed. You are going to say that it is no different than a general dentist referring to the specialist when needed. But there is no meaningful analogy to be made there.

When a patient is referred to a specialist by the general dentist it is because the dentist has identified and diagnosed certain disease processes that are better addressed by someone with more experience in that area. The specialist works in conjunction with the dentist to complete a certain aspect of the comprehensive treatment plan already established for the patient. The general dentist understands how all the pieces of the puzzle fit together and specialists sometimes are a piece of that puzzle.

However, under the independent hygiene and "hygiene practitioner" models the patient is not being seen by someone who can develop a comprehensive multi-disciplinary treatment plan. This creates a HUGE chasm in the quality of care delivered to the public.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

I went to dental school, I started out there and decided that: 1) i couldn't afford it---boy was I stupid. Should of maxed out the loans. 2) I wanted more at the time---hence forth ---more would of been completing dental school. 3)I loved dentistry so I finished out in hygiene and have been there for the last 25 years!!!

You couldn't afford dental school 25 years ago??? I call Bull$hit on that one. In 1980-1984 you would have graduated from a PRIVATE school with about $18k in debt. Today that same student is about $200k in debt. $18k adjusted for inflation is about $55k in todays dollars...very weak excuse.

Having an MBA I know how important a team environment is. Everyone in my office will be treated as equals with the same respect. If my hygenist starts to make the assistant feel lower than her...then she is gone!

If I do the prep, I have no problem with the hygenist doing the composite. I have a few hygenist in my class with many years experience, lets just say their hand skills sucked just as bad as everyone else's the first day they picked up the hand piece. Plain and simple, if a hygenist wants to do the work of a dentist then go to dental school. No short cuts.

 

[12YearOldKid]

So you're suggesting that dentists aren't at the top of the dental office "heirarchy?" Wow, really?? I would have to disagree. We really aren't equals, and I mean that WITHOUT any malice towards hygienists, who make up a very important part of dental practices.

There is no doubt that the dentist should be the "boss." It's his/her office. His money. His financial risk. His butt on the line. He has the responsibility to make the final call concerning patient care.

But I'm talking in a social sense. Some of the people on here seem to think that having Dr. in front of their names makes them a better person. And it just ain't so.

 

[2thclnr]

And I was once asked to be the CEO of a corporation but chose to work in the mailroom instead.

Look, I value hygienists for what they are....HYGIENISTS. Fact is the majority of hygienists chose that field because the pay is decent and the educational requirement was minimal as compared to other fields. While a few may truly "love" to clean teeth (which I seriously doubt), the vast majority of hygienists I know didn't enter hygiene for that reason but rather the relatively light work-weeks and decent pay. Anyhow, the quality of student that enters hygiene school is academically inferior to the quality of student that enters dental school. Let's keep it real here. It is what it is. Hygiene is hygiene, plain and simple. If hygienists don't like it, they can find their nearest university and start working on their bachleors degree, take the required prereq science classes, take the DAT, and apply to dental school just like the rest of the actual dental students do. It's a free country, so by all means knock yourself out hygienists. You should not get a cheap ticket into doing more advanced dental procedures without having the formal education and training to do so. It's not rocket science ladies.

I became a hygienist because I love to do it. The vast majority of RDHs in CA might have clouded your vision. I have been nothing but nice on this thread. I have supported without coming off as a horse's behind, a skill in which some of you are lacking in. Do you feel superior due to your education? Because I feel superior that I served in the military, am raising 2 children and a husband, went to school full time and finally became a hygienist. I am working on my BA while working full time and still raising that family. I have full intentions on becoming a dentist and possible rejoining the military again. Do you want to talk about how hard school is to me now? Sorry I guess I should not have entered the military during 1st Gulf war to defend sniveling little kids who just have to make it through school. Happy Vets Day to me!
And go ahead make fun of my spelling since you guys get a kick out of that also.
I feel so much better now!