Husband refuses to let me go to med school

[mcworbust]

You are quite open minded my friend. And her husband reasons? Are they way off as well. I agree with you, he should be doing a lot more, but i am pretty sure the OP knew how ambitious he was before they got married. And this is the person she decided to spend her life with. Whether or not you agree with his conduct is seriously off topic. What the OP need is a way to convince him to get on board.

But his conduct is seriously relevant to the topic. His conduct is the foundation for why she should not need him to "let" her do it, and part of convincing him to be on board is helping him understand that his conduct has not demonstrated enough value where he could be the decision maker here (although every effort should be made to educate him and have him assent to her plan (importantly, because of his value to the family and relationship, she does not need his consent).

You have no idea what a parent would do for their kids. They would even offer their lives if possible. I am just the internet guy anyways, and i applaud and support these new goals you have set for yourself. However, in this case, i have no choice but to side with your husband because i would have done the same.

Also, since you wrote this when she is actually a parent (which she corrected you on but was in the OP), I hope your username defines your purpose on this board - trolling.

@Art2doc regardless of if you pursue med school or not, you need to assert yourself or (hopefully) convince him to raise his game to your level. And I am a husband whose wife is supportive of me, but I was supportive of her first while she was in med school and I do everything I can to be as supportive as I can while in med school.

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[Instatewaiter]

Hi all, I’m new here. I recently received a very generous offer from my Stepdad to pay for medical school AND my mortgage for the duration. I am 37, married 10 years with two elementary-aged daughters. This is a very different career than my first one and will be a lot work (obviously).

My husband refuses to accept the money from my dad, claiming we are adults and should be able to “take care of ourselves.” You know, bootstraps. He would rather us take out loans to cover med school, for me to chose PT or RN instead, or any other route that would allow me to work full time while attending school.

I’m the breadwinner and have been for 5 years. Going back to school means we would have to sacrifice some comforts, but with my dad’s help it is totally feasible. But he refuses to budge. Fair disclosure: we’ve been in marriage counseling for six months for other reasons, and the marriage isn’t strong. I’m crushed. This chance is literally the best chance to get out of mediocrity for ourselves, our family, and even our grandchildren. And he won’t take it because of his pride. I don’t know what to do next. Either I leave him to pursue it on my own, or he decides to “let” me go to med school and I start the journey with an unsupportive spouse. Any advice?

While we are getting things only from your perspective, it appears to me that your relationship has passed beyond the event horizon. If you don't go to medical school, you will resent him and this will poison a marriage on the ropes; if you do go, the stress of school/residency, time you'll need for work, and the general grind of the years of training will no doubt do your relationship in. I dated a girl during medical school who was not very supportive but was probably more supportive than your husband. Medical school destroyed the relationship and I didn't have the added stress of kids. Residency was much worse than medical school in terms of freedom, stress, and time. Now, I met my wife in medical school who was very supportive and even still training was a strain on our relationship- and we thrive together in stressful situations. I cannot imaging having a spouse who is actively unsupporitve even before starting medical school.

Now, to play devil's advocate about why you shouldn't go to medical school:
you haven't even done the pre-recs and we don't even know if you have what it takes to get in, let alone get through medical school. I also don't really get the impression this is a well thought out decision epsecially given how this will upend your life.

I don't really think you grasp the time suck that is medical school and residency. You will literally have weeks where you work over 100 hours (there are 168 hours in a week). You won't have time for family let alone friends. I missed countless friends weddings. I didn't make a family Christmas or Thanksgiving for 3 straight years. You will miss your kids growing up.

Next, at best, you're going to be 40 when you start medical school.You'll be 44 when you finish school and you will START residency at 45. Residency is EXHAUSTING. 2 of my residency mates got into car accidents because they fell asleep driving. And we were in our 20s, not our mid-40s. You will finish the shortest residencies at 48. At most we're talking about 20 years practicing... is it really worth it for what you'd be giving up?

I am an attending and love my job. My family and I have a wonderful life together. I would do it again in a heart beat. But, if I had to start over again at this point in my life (mid-30s) I would really pause and think.

Now to play devil's advocage about your husband: Perhaps you are romanticizing being a physician and your husband is truly being the realistic one.

 

[Dare2Dream]

-Your marital status will affect your schooling. If you think getting into medical school will solve all of that, you are wrong. It will only make present problems within the household worse.

-If your husband is unable to do everything you currently do at home (keep the household together and raise your children properly), you need to have someone else who can do 90% of that while you are in medical school. This is non-negotiable. There is no point in you taking your pre-reqs, doing a post-bac, getting an interview, getting into your first semester only to have your children and household obligations drag your grades down.

-You have the attitude and I respect that. Combined with a non-traditional background your story would be interesting. However I highly doubt you have a full idea of what medical school will do and take from you. It will take everything you have and ask for more. We are not even talking about your clinical rotations or residency plans which may involve moving or being away from home for long periods of time.

-As someone mentioned above, take a full courseload of pre-reqs, and maybe even a post bac. Figure out if you can sustain that load (not including clinicals) for 7+ years.

-Getting into medical school and finishing almost has nothing to do with your children right now. Do not use your children as an excuse for your own aspirations. It is a self-accomplishment. Whether they are inspired or not, they will not see 90% of what you do, your struggles, and your growth as a person and mother. It is something they cannot relate to at their current age.

I'd read this post many times over. Medical school takes everything from you and more. Even in the most ideal of situations, it will affect your kids. There will be many days you will not spend much, if any, time with them or even pick up/drop them off at school. There are weeks at a time, such as before STEP, when students end up spending all day, morning to night by themselves, studying for the exam. Then there are rotations, days when you need to get there 6 am and stay for 12 or more hours, without leaving the confines of the hospital even once. There is also call, usually every few weeks when you come in one morning and don't leave the hospital until the next day at noon. It is demanding beyond the most demanding of jobs, and this is just med school, residency is another level up. Before med school, I was working full time and at the same time, took a full course load for one quarter. As demanding as that was, it was much easier than med school. I say all of this to not doubt your ability to get through med school but do realize that the vast majority of students in medical school do so with zero responsibility for anything beyond getting through med school and even then it is very taxing on them. If you decide to undertake this endeavor, you want to do so with all the support you can get from family, especially your spouse. Without his full support, it will be especially taxing on you and your kids, and it is a very long journey.

 

[mcworbust]

While we are getting things only from your perspective, it appears to me that your relationship has passed beyond the event horizon. If you don't go to medical school, you will resent him and this will poison a marriage on the ropes; if you do go, the stress of school/residency, time you'll need for work, and the general grind of the years of training will no doubt do your relationship in. I dated a girl during medical school who was not very supportive but was probably more supportive than your husband. Medical school destroyed the relationship and I didn't have the added stress of kids. Residency was much worse than medical school in terms of freedom, stress, and time. Now, I met my wife in medical school who was very supportive and even still training was a strain on our relationship- and we thrive together in stressful situations. I cannot imaging having a spouse who is actively unsupporitve even before starting medical school.

Now, to play devil's advocate about why you shouldn't go to medical school:
you haven't even done the pre-recs and we don't even know if you have what it takes to get in, let alone get through medical school. I also don't really get the impression this is a well thought out decision epsecially given how this will upend your life.

I don't really think you grasp the time suck that is medical school and residency. You will literally have weeks where you work over 100 hours (there are 168 hours in a week). You won't have time for family let alone friends. I missed countless friends weddings. I didn't make a family Christmas or Thanksgiving for 3 straight years. You will miss your kids growing up.

Next, at best, you're going to be 40 when you start medical school.You'll be 44 when you finish school and you will START residency at 45. Residency is EXHAUSTING. 2 of my residency mates got into car accidents because they fell asleep driving. And we were in our 20s, not our mid-40s. You will finish the shortest residencies at 48. At most we're talking about 20 years practicing... is it really worth it for what you'd be giving up?

I am an attending and love my job. My family and I have a wonderful life together. I would do it again in a heart beat. But, if I had to start over again at this point in my life (mid-30s) I would really pause and think.

I'd read this post many times over. Medical school takes everything from you and more. Even in the most ideal of situations, it will affect your kids. There will be many days you will not spend much, if any, time with them or even pick up/drop them off at school. There are weeks at a time, such as before STEP, when students end up spending all day, morning to night by themselves, studying for the exam. Then there are rotations, days when you need to get there 6 am and stay for 12 or more hours, without leaving the confines of the hospital even once. There is also call, usually every few weeks when you come in one morning and don't leave the hospital until the next day at noon. It is demanding beyond the most demanding of jobs, and this is just med school, residency is another level up. Before med school, I was working full time and at the same time, took a full course load for one quarter. As demanding as that was, it was much easier than med school. I say all of this to not doubt your ability to get through med school but do realize that the vast majority of students in medical school do so with zero responsibility for anything beyond getting through med school and even then it is very taxing on them. If you decide to undertake this endeavor, you want to do so with all the support you can get from family, especially your spouse. Without his full support, it will be especially taxing on you and your kids, and it is a very long journey.

I totally agree with the above but I look at your situation like this: there are many legit reasons why you should not pursue this path. You would likely be better off not pursuing it. But it needs to be your decision and your husband needs to support your decision. If you can't go because he won't let you, I can't see how your relationship would survive, even with kids. If it were me, I could not live knowing that my spouse was actively preventing my dream if the climate/situation you describe is accurate. best of luck to you

 

[Stagg737]

I'm quoting the following because of how incredibly spot on every point is. @Art2doc , read it. Then read it again. Every point here is something you NEED to understand when making this decision. These are things every applicant should consider before applying, but they are especially true for those who have children relying on their success as you do.

-Your marital status will affect your schooling. If you think getting into medical school will solve all of that, you are wrong. It will only make present problems within the household worse.

-If your husband is unable to do everything you currently do at home (keep the household together and raise your children properly), you need to have someone else who can do 90% of that while you are in medical school. This is non-negotiable. There is no point in you taking your pre-reqs, doing a post-bac, getting an interview, getting into your first semester only to have your children and household obligations drag your grades down.

-You have the attitude and I respect that. Combined with a non-traditional background your story would be interesting. However I highly doubt you have a full idea of what medical school will do and take from you. It will take everything you have and ask for more. We are not even talking about your clinical rotations or residency plans which may involve moving or being away from home for long periods of time.

-As someone mentioned above, take a full courseload of pre-reqs, and maybe even a post bac. Figure out if you can sustain that load (not including clinicals) for 7+ years.

-Getting into medical school and finishing almost has nothing to do with your children right now. Do not use your children as an excuse for your own aspirations. It is a self-accomplishment. Whether they are inspired or not, they will not see 90% of what you do, your struggles, and your growth as a person and mother. It is something they cannot relate to at their current age.

For my 20 cents (my opinion is too long for just 2 cents here, sorry) as a (semi-) non-trad who is now finishing up med school with an SO who has been with me 5+ years...

Your current relationship as you describe it is not conducive to being successful in medical school. I'll refrain from giving any professional opinions about your spouses' problems or situation, but from the picture you've painted I feel confident in saying that this relationship would have almost 0% chance of surviving medical school (not to mention residency which is typically even more stressful and time-consuming), and if you did decide to enter medical school in your current situation, I think your chances of getting through would be greatly decreased.

Everyone talks about the stress medical school and residency puts on future physicians, but it's rarely mentioned how much pressure and commitment is required from physician spouses. Spouses need to understand that they are a second priority to medical training, when kids are involved the spouse becomes a tertiary priority. It sounds like your husband already struggles with this, and entering medical school with this situation will only hurt both of you as well as your children. If you two stay together and you pursue medical school, you NEED to have these relationship issues worked out. To add to what Instatewaiter said, I've seen many good relationships fall apart because of medical school, and know of exactly zero relationships that weren't at least "good" that survived medical school. That's not even counting residency. So if you choose to pursue medical school, you need to either make sure your husband is completely on board and providing far more support than he currently is or end the relationship. Not saying what you should do, but I believe entering medical school in your current situation would likely have devastating results.

Now, let's say you decide to end the relationship and pursue medical school (not saying you should or should not do this, just giving my perspective on this hypothetical), there are still going to be many obstacles. In addition to the previously mentioned age-related struggles you'd face, you may very well have to move multiple times to places you've never lived and may not know anyone. If you end up in medical school in another state where you're alone, what will the situation with your kids be like? Will they come with you? If so, will you be able to find a babysitter/support? Or will you sacrifice your own study time and "make it work"? Will their dad fight for custody? Will there be legal issues if you moved away? Etc. Keep in mind, you may not just be moving once, it may be multiple times. You may have to move for medical school. If you go to certain schools (mostly DO), you may have to move again 3rd year when clinical rotations start. You may have to do an audition rotation somewhere and not be home for a month. If that happened who would take care of your children? You may have to move again for residency. That's potentially 3 separate moves in a 4 year period. Are you okay with moving your children around that much? Some people are okay with that. Personally, I wouldn't be.

Then there will be residency, which will be a minimum 3 more years, possibly 6-7 if you pursued something competitive or did fellowships. So from med school to attending would take minimum 7, up to 11 years of your life. That's 7-11 years where you're missing out on major points in your children's lives. Yes, there will be plenty of time to spend with them, but there will also be times when you desperately want to be there for them but won't be able to (missing games/recitals, not being there to help with boy/girl problems, being so tired you can barely function as an individual let alone as a parent, etc). Can you accept that? Earlier I talked about the sacrifices made and support given by spouses, but you should also be aware that some of those will be required to be made by your children as well. So you have to ask yourself if it's worth it.

There are also many unforeseeable/unexpected events that could happen. What if someone gets in an accident or becomes really sick? What if the divorce gets legally messy or there are legal issues with custody (still working under the assumption of you being single here)? What if you fail boards or don't match? What if you get partway through medical school/residency and hate what you're doing? What if something happens to your step-dad and he can't afford to pay your tuition anymore? These are things that most students don't have to deal with or just find a way to deal with if they occur. However, for someone like yourself who is in a unique situation and isn't "most students", any one of these events would likely be far more difficult to handle. So they're just things to keep in mind.

I'm not trying to discourage you from pursuing this path or be overly negative, though I'm sure that's probably how this post is coming across. I'm just a realist, so I think it's important that people have a solid understanding of what they're getting themselves into and some of the hurdles they will/may face in the process. This is especially true for someone entering medical school or pursuing medicine who already has a family with children.

So to summarize in a few points:

If you do decide to pursue medical school, you need to have your relationship situation worked out before you begin. You need to understand that you will be making many sacrifices in terms of your ability to be there for your family, and your family needs to understand that they will be making sacrifices as well. You need to understand that this path will require those around you to be flexible, and will likely require you to be flexible as well (especially given the current situation you've described). Finally, you need to understand that if you pursue this route then you have to commit to it 100%. You can't be constantly distracted with a million other things all the time. Yes, sometimes things will happen and we have to deal with them first and put med school aside temporarily. However, those events have to be the exception, not the norm. If you weigh all these things and still choose to pursue medicine, then go all in and don't look back. If you chose a different route, I don't think any reasonable person would blame you. Either way, I wish you the best of luck in whatever endeavor you decide to pursue and hope everything works out for you regardless of the path you take.

 

[WhereMyLiberalsAt]

Talking about your marital issues in this type of setting is inappropriate... I imagine your marriage counselor has discussed how talking about your marital woes with others —close friends, and even family— can undermine the benefits of marriage counseling. I can’t comment about any of your husband’s actions/thoughts/feelings because the poor bastard isn’t here to defend himself. However, the tone in which you use your pronouns is disheartening. Everything drips of contempt, replaying of past sins, criticism, and apathy... Honestly, you need to increase your sessions with your marriage counselor or find a new one ASAP. I’m going to take the unpopular view and say I actually have sympathy for your husband. Here is a man in his late 30’s, that had his wife “unilaterally” decide to get her MA in teaching... THEN has his wife cry of mediocrity because he doesn’t want to borrow 100’s of thousands of $$$ from his in-laws! All while being called everything short of a controlling, underachieving, piece of ****... Your husband’s hesitation to plunging your family into this hellish journey of non-traditional premed life is extremely rational. But who knows, maybe he is the dick you make him out to be and is suppressing his wife into a service oriented job teaching the future generations of our country...

 

[NTF]

I don't want to reiterate what other people have said and I agree with much it (others not so much). Let me just say I empathize with what you're going through. These are not easy decisions. I hope you'll be able to discuss much of what you've said in this forum in constructive ways during counseling sessions with your husband. Best of luck to you.

 

[Trollest]

Your husband’s hesitation to plunging your family into this hellish journey of non-traditional premed life is extremely rational.

This.

 

[BombsAway]

The only reasons you mentioned for why you want to pursue medicine resemble those of a 20 year old pre-med, not a 37 year old mother, educator, and wisend adult. Which is why I must ask, what sort of clinical experiences have you had? Have those experiences taught you that the only satisfying healthcare role for you is physician? PA would be the best option for your circumstances, as they have been presented.

Anyway, whos dad is this guy? he's your step-dad, but not your husband's dad? I'm confused.

 

[rabbott1971]

Anyway, whos dad is this guy? he's your step-dad, but not your husband's dad? I'm confused.

You don't know what a step-parent is? A step-parent is simply the spouse of a biological parent. So OP's mother married a man, who is not OP's father, and now that person is OP's step-dad.

If it were her husband's dad, it would be her father-in-law.

 

[Master Thinker]

Like the others said, you cannot just decide to "take" medical school on a whim. Most premeds (~75%) get weeded out before application and of those who succeed, only ~45% actually do end up getting accepted. Then are you willing to go take science classes, do well in them, keep up with EC/research, and do well on the MCAT before even having a shot?

 

[BombsAway]

You don't know what a step-parent is? A step-parent is simply the spouse of a biological parent. So OP's mother married a man, who is not OP's father, and now that person is OP's step-dad.

If it were her husband's dad, it would be her father-in-law.

woah, i got super confused somewhere. My step-bad.

Anyway, OP. none of this stuff matters until you shadow some docs and decide that you can't not be a physician.

 

[68PGunner]

Hi all, I’m new here. I recently received a very generous offer from my Stepdad to pay for medical school AND my mortgage for the duration. I am 37, married 10 years with two elementary-aged daughters. This is a very different career than my first one and will be a lot work (obviously).

My husband refuses to accept the money from my dad, claiming we are adults and should be able to “take care of ourselves.” You know, bootstraps. He would rather us take out loans to cover med school, for me to chose PT or RN instead, or any other route that would allow me to work full time while attending school.

I’m the breadwinner and have been for 5 years. Going back to school means we would have to sacrifice some comforts, but with my dad’s help it is totally feasible. But he refuses to budge. Fair disclosure: we’ve been in marriage counseling for six months for other reasons, and the marriage isn’t strong. I’m crushed. This chance is literally the best chance to get out of mediocrity for ourselves, our family, and even our grandchildren. And he won’t take it because of his pride. I don’t know what to do next. Either I leave him to pursue it on my own, or he decides to “let” me go to med school and I start the journey with an unsupportive spouse. Any advice?

No offense, but what does your husband actually do? It sounds like he’s a bum who has an inflated sense of self-worth...

 

[BusinessAndMedicine]

@Art2doc are you going to come out much ahead financially if you become a doctor?

Best case scenario you start med school at 41, graduate at 45, graduate residency at 48. You are giving up 10+ years of income and at the end of it will be a junior Attending at the age of 50. I don't think you will find the salary even close to sufficient to compensate you for all the hard work and sacrifices that will be necessary to make this happen.

 

[Art2doc]

No offense, but what does your husband actually do? It sounds like he’s a bum who has an inflated sense of self-worth...

He's a line cook in a hotel and has 20 years experience as a cook, chef, and kitchen manager. He isn't a bum, he actually has a very good work ethic despite not being upwardly mobile.

 

[Art2doc]

I’d actually hazard a guess that he’s a decent guy who’s being pilloried by his wife in an anonymous online forum so she can use it as ammo against him. (See! See! They say you’re a no good lazy bum too and that you’re stopping me just because of your ego!)

Dude is a man in his late 30’s who doesn’t want his wife in her late 30’s to tank their entire 40’s and be absent for her daughters as they go through their teenage years. Maybe the guy is just sane and gives a crap about his family.

Has that happened to you, Mr. Hat? I'm not at all the type of wife that would do that. I'm taking in all of the information here in order to make a better informed decision about my path forward (though some say I have no path), not to rally random people against my husband. It's 50/50 on this thread anyways and you can't pick and choose your data.

I'll pose a question: If my husband were the one wanting to quit his job and pursue medicine, would you all be calling for him to be hung for missing his daughter's early teens? Likely not.

 

[Art2doc]

@Art2doc are you going to come out much ahead financially if you become a doctor?

Best case scenario you start med school at 41, graduate at 45, graduate residency at 48. You are giving up 10+ years of income and at the end of it will be a junior Attending at the age of 50. I don't think you will find the salary even close to sufficient to compensate you for all the hard work and sacrifices that will be necessary to make this happen.

This is an excellent point and I'll need to do the figures to find the break-even point. Currently, on a public teacher's salary, I stand to only gain about 1K a year in salary over the next 10 years. This depends greatly on the cost of healthcare premiums. My take home pay hasn't moved much in the last five years due to that and the only way we're even moving ahead slightly is because my husband is now carrying the insurance for himself and the girls. We probably have less debt than the average married couple at our age, so we aren't living beyond our means. His salary is stagnant unless he goes for a promotion or gets a second job. He's expressed interest in starting a home business with a low startup cost that would grow our income over the next several years and it's not a far-fetched plan. There are lots of variables, so thank for bringing that point to my attention.

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

This is an excellent point and I'll need to do the figures to find the break-even point. Currently, on a public teacher's salary, I stand to only gain about 1K a year in salary over the next 10 years. This depends greatly on the cost of healthcare premiums. My take home pay hasn't moved much in the last five years due to that and the only way we're even moving ahead slightly is because my husband is now carrying the insurance for himself and the girls. We probably have less debt than the average married couple at our age, so we aren't living beyond our means. His salary is stagnant unless he goes for a promotion or gets a second job. He's expressed interest in starting a home business with a low startup cost that would grow our income over the next several years and it's not a far-fetched plan. There are lots of variables, so thank for bringing that point to my attention.

Also think about what if you get accepted after 2-3 years work and then your family's funding offer doesn't come through? Is it worth $300k in debt (~$450k with interest) + 7-10 years missed salary?

 

[Trollest]

Has that happened to you, Mr. Hat? I'm not at all the type of wife that would do that. I'm taking in all of the information here in order to make a better informed decision about my path forward (though some say I have no path), not to rally random people against my husband. It's 50/50 on this thread anyways and you can't pick and choose your data.

I'll pose a question: If my husband were the one wanting to quit his job and pursue medicine, would you all be calling for him to be hung for missing his daughter's early teens? Likely not.

I would as well but only if he was the breadwinner. When you have other who are depending on your income, your choice become very limited.

 

[Promethean]

He's a line cook in a hotel and has 20 years experience as a cook, chef, and kitchen manager. He isn't a bum, he actually has a very good work ethic despite not being upwardly mobile.

We have some things in common, my friend. I was 37 when I started medical school. I had also been the breadwinner in our family for years, while my husband was, like yours, someone who worked hard but didn't necessarily earn a lot of money. That isn't something that is always very respected around these parts. Don't take it to heart. We also have some pretty major differences... I'm a guy, and we don't have children.

Lots of people around her are going to have lots of opinions about how you ought to run your life, what you should or shouldn't attempt. Bollocks to that. You are the one living your life.

I do want to point out that no one is going to "let" you do anything. You will do it or you won't. There will be consequences to that, either way. People will react however they do. But you don't need anyone to *allow* you to take the actions that you choose to take in your life. Even within the setting of a marriage, you don't need a permission slip. You may ask permission, but if so, you are making the choice to put someone else in charge of what they will allow you to do or not. That is a power that no one can have over you unless you give it to them... and which you can rescind at any time. This may seem like a difference of pedantic syntax, but it truly is not. Whether you go down the path of medicine or not, you will benefit enormously from having a really clear sense of your own personal authority over your own life and choices. (If you did need permission from *anyone,* it would be your children. Your husband can choose whether to continue to share a life with you. Your kids didn't choose to be here, and they don't get to decide who their parents are. They aren't really in a position to give you informed consent, because even you cannot appreciate how going into medicine is going to eat up your time and attention, and so they certainly cannot. But if you are seeking someone to let you, maybe you will decide to let it be them.)

You need not do an entire extra BS in biology to do this. When I started the process of getting into medical school, I was 35 and had no degree. I had an RN diploma, none of the credits of which were applicable for calculating a GPA. I did pre-reqs at a community college, and used some of the scattered credits I'd had over 10 years of trying to go back to school to have enough credits to start the application process. Just after I applied, I completed an Associates degree in under 12 months based on those pre-reqs, some random CC courses, and like 30 credits worth of CLEP credit by exam. Knowing that I would need a BS degree in something, I enrolled in WGU, an online university that charges by the term with no limit on how many credits one can take in that time. I took extraordinary advantage of that. I picked a program of study in which I'd already mastered much of the material (Business Administration/Human Resources Management) and knocked out classes at a rate of one every 4 days, on average. As quickly as I could enroll, I'd apply to take the final exam for the course. Those courses made up for the ones where I needed to actually do a project/paper/produce some other work product to demonstrate mastery. This isn't a diploma mill... it is a legit school, and I was doing a lot of reading and study... I was just doing absolutely nothing else for months but tearing through the material and racking up credits. I completed 90 credits in one 6 month term, earning a BS degree for a total cost of just over $3000 ($5k if you count the CC credits that I transferred in.)

There are a lot of people around here who will tell you that someone with an academic pedigree like mine can't get into medical school. They will say, with all of the enormous authority of pre-meds, that adcoms don't like to see this, don't like to see that, etc. But I'm going to be graduating this spring and going to residency. Don't let them psyche you out. You are starting in a better condition than me. You have a degree, already, and a promise of financial support. You need the pre-reqs. You need to perform well on the MCAT. You need a plan for your family while you are busier than you have ever been. But I haven't heard you list any barriers that could not be overcome, if this is truly what you want to do.

 

[Promethean]

Has that happened to you, Mr. Hat? I'm not at all the type of wife that would do that. I'm taking in all of the information here in order to make a better informed decision about my path forward (though some say I have no path), not to rally random people against my husband. It's 50/50 on this thread anyways and you can't pick and choose your data.

I'll pose a question: If my husband were the one wanting to quit his job and pursue medicine, would you all be calling for him to be hung for missing his daughter's early teens? Likely not.

No. If you posed the same scenario, reversing the genders, people here would see it very differently. I've watched it time and again.

"Hi. My parents are willing to pay for me to go to medical school and pay our living expenses, but my wife doesn't want me to... we have two kids." No one would make a peep about "You are going to miss your kids. How dare you abandon them like that?" They'd instead be saying that the wife was being shortsighted and controlling. Some might go so far as to suggest that he could always cut her loose and find a replacement once he is a doctor. I can almost hear people saying that I'm exaggerating... and if I didn't have better things to do today, I'd go find the threads where I've seen exactly those things said in that context and post the links. Maybe someone else is more motivated than I.

 

[Art2doc]

No. If you posed the same scenario, reversing the genders, people here would see it very differently. I've watched it time and again.

"Hi. My parents are willing to pay for me to go to medical school and pay our living expenses, but my wife doesn't want me to... we have two kids." No one would make a peep about "You are going to miss your kids. How dare you abandon them like that?" They'd instead be saying that the wife was being shortsighted and controlling. Some might go so far as to suggest that he could always cut her loose and find a replacement once he is a doctor. I can almost hear people saying that I'm exaggerating... and if I didn't have better things to do today, I'd go find the threads where I've seen exactly those things said in that context and post the links. Maybe someone else is more motivated than I.

I’d been lurking round for a while before I joined, and I’ve seen exactly what you are talking about.

 

[Art2doc]

If it was your husband wanting to do this instead of you I would be just as adamant about warning him against this, for all of the reasons I’ve outline in my posts. My wife has said many times that if she knew what we were really going to go through, she never would have let me do this. And I can’t say I blame her.

I assume you are still married? How old were your kids when you started and when you finished? Did your wife work full time while you were in school? Did you have local family or friends that would help your wife with meeting the needs of the kids while you were away? Do your kids resent you for it?

 

[Lawpy]

Hi all, I’m new here. I recently received a very generous offer from my Stepdad to pay for medical school AND my mortgage for the duration. I am 37, married 10 years with two elementary-aged daughters. This is a very different career than my first one and will be a lot work (obviously).

My husband refuses to accept the money from my dad, claiming we are adults and should be able to “take care of ourselves.” You know, bootstraps. He would rather us take out loans to cover med school, for me to chose PT or RN instead, or any other route that would allow me to work full time while attending school.

I’m the breadwinner and have been for 5 years. Going back to school means we would have to sacrifice some comforts, but with my dad’s help it is totally feasible. But he refuses to budge. Fair disclosure: we’ve been in marriage counseling for six months for other reasons, and the marriage isn’t strong. I’m crushed. This chance is literally the best chance to get out of mediocrity for ourselves, our family, and even our grandchildren. And he won’t take it because of his pride. I don’t know what to do next. Either I leave him to pursue it on my own, or he decides to “let” me go to med school and I start the journey with an unsupportive spouse. Any advice?

Thanks for your reply. You are absolutely right, I haven’t even started this journey, and maybe I won’t get into med school at all. I have a BA in Art History and an MA in Teaching. I am a public school teacher. I will have to take prereqs, and will likely need to get an MS Biology before even thinking of applying to med school (need to prove I can do the hard sciences, right?) It’s a lot to ask my husband to sit with me while I do that, and it will take a long time.

It’s hard for me to guess his true reason for stalling me on this. One minute, he says that he will support me if this is what will make me happy. The next, I’m being told he won’t even let me attempt the prereqs and MS while working part-time because it would cause us to have to compromise our current standard of living (he honestly has no idea what that is because he doesn’t even look at our bank account). In counseling last night, after being told the immensity of the undertaking (our therapist is a former career nurse of 40 years), he said he didn’t want to accept the money from my dad and therefore the point is moot- We wouldn’t be able to do it at all because he won’t accept me not working. I did offer to set it up to pay my dad back, and that was also not amenable to him.

So SDN unfortunately has a lot of judgmental members who think they have the authority to dictate how you should live your life. And strangely, these members tend to give a lot of advice regarding relationships and marriage counseling as if they were experts. My advice is to ignore them.

I can’t comment on your personal matters, but if you want to pursue medicine, all you need from an academic standpoint is to complete the prereqs. You don’t need another master’s. Once you did well on the prereqs, study hard and do well on the MCAT. With your background in art history/teaching, is it safe to assume you like thr humanities/social sciences and generally like to read? If so, you will do well on the verbal/CARS section and likely the psychology/sociology section. If you do well on the science courses and study hard using Khan Academy, I’m fairly confident you will do very well on the MCAT and get a very high score.

Regarding extracurriculars, I would volunteer in clinical and nonclinical settings. Volunteering is a good way to help others and demonstrate altruism. I don’t think your family would mind you volunteering, since anyone can volunteer regardless of their profession. Also consider shadowing a few physicians to know what they do.

It’s fine to pursue medicine but you need to have a narrative and a good understanding on why you want to become a doctor. Once you have that and did well academically, you can get into med school and pursue your dreams.

 

[rabbott1971]

@Art2doc here is a very quick income comparison. For this chart, I attributed to you income as a teacher of $50,000, and small raises every few years like you mentioned. Your physician income I put at $200,000 starting with a modest increase of 2% per year (both extremely achievable; see Medscape, Merritt Hawkins, etc.). Many specialists will earn $350,000 to $450,000 (you can research the income side of it on your own).

So the chart tracks your total earnings through age 61, which is 30 years from now (didn't you say you're 31?). The disparity is substantial. Even if you want to add an education debt of $250,000, it barely matters.

You can make this kind of chart easily, and then play with the numbers. Strictly FYI, strictly an example. Hope this will help you in your evaluation.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Hi all, I’m new here. I recently received a very generous offer from my Stepdad to pay for medical school AND my mortgage for the duration. I am 37, married 10 years with two elementary-aged daughters. This is a very different career than my first one and will be a lot work (obviously).

My husband refuses to accept the money from my dad, claiming we are adults and should be able to “take care of ourselves.” You know, bootstraps. He would rather us take out loans to cover med school, for me to chose PT or RN instead, or any other route that would allow me to work full time while attending school.

I’m the breadwinner and have been for 5 years. Going back to school means we would have to sacrifice some comforts, but with my dad’s help it is totally feasible. But he refuses to budge. Fair disclosure: we’ve been in marriage counseling for six months for other reasons, and the marriage isn’t strong. I’m crushed. This chance is literally the best chance to get out of mediocrity for ourselves, our family, and even our grandchildren. And he won’t take it because of his pride. I don’t know what to do next. Either I leave him to pursue it on my own, or he decides to “let” me go to med school and I start the journey with an unsupportive spouse. Any advice?

I’ll be brief.
Your husband is being idiotic and prideful. It’s your decision, not his.
If god forbid he wants he divorce because of it frankly you’re better off without him.
If you don’t do it you’ll regret it with your last dying breath.
Oh, I’m a guy btw for whatever that counts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

@Art2doc here is a very quick income comparison. ... View attachment 227059

should start at age 37.... probabaly not as a dramatic difference.

 

[EmilKraepelin55]

for new do schools without placement records or with crappy ones? yes 500 is fine. for dmu, kcu, etc, probably 506 bare minimum?

I had a 504 and got into KCU. 500 I would say is the bare minimum for DO overall.

 

[Art2doc]

should start at age 37.... probabaly not as a dramatic difference.

And I make 55k with increases of about 1k a year. I did my own tables with the ages corrected and using the same amortization’s for the doctor salary column. Teacher at 68 is 2.25M total, Doctor is 5.67M, and PA is 4M (assuming the same annual increases as MD). Break even for MD puts me at 48 years old, 44 for PA (assuming I work part time as a CNA while doing prereqs).

 

[Skiiiiiing]

@Art2doc here is a very quick income comparison. For this chart, I attributed to you income as a teacher of $50,000, and small raises every few years like you mentioned. Your physician income I put at $200,000 starting with a modest increase of 2% per year (both extremely achievable; see Medscape, Merritt Hawkins, etc.). Many specialists will earn $350,000 to $450,000 (you can research the income side of it on your own).

So the chart tracks your total earnings through age 61, which is 30 years from now (didn't you say you're 31?). The disparity is substantial. Even if you want to add an education debt of $250,000, it barely matters.

You can make this kind of chart easily, and then play with the numbers. Strictly FYI, strictly an example. Hope this will help you in your evaluation.View attachment 227059

While I agree with your point, this is pretax and I don't know that physician salaries are easily foreseeable. You have also ignored the value of the pension most teachers receive.

These two factors probably halve the difference.

 

[rabbott1971]

While I agree with your point, this is pretax and I don't know that physician salaries are easily foreseeable. You have also ignored the value of the pension most teachers receive.

These two factors probably halve the difference.

No, I don't think the difference I projected is off by half.

Yes there are taxes, but I also didn't include investment income for a physician's savings. And while you may not be sanguine about doctor salaries, others are. Bottom line, they are expected to continue growing. If you are arguing that the trends over the last several decades won't continue, I think you bear the burden of persuasion, not me.

https://www.merritthawkins.com/uplo...hysician_Incentive_Review_Merritt_Hawkins.pdf

I also didn't attribute a specialist income to this scenario. In the OB residency I shadowed, a 4th year accepted a position in private practice starting her at over $400,000. I know orthopods and dermatologists making over $2 million a year. You want to see the spreadsheet for those incomes?

Many docs also get the chance to own part of a collateral business, such as an imaging clinic, pharmacy, PT shop, or something else, which shoots their income way up. Docs can be at the top of a business pyramid, where they earn a small percentage from the work of subordinates. Not so much for teachers.

So while there are factors that can go both ways, I deliberately hewed a very modest, middle course on the numbers. And I think you're a little euphoric if you really think teachers are routinely collecting pensions, but if you insist, add $24,000 a year for 20 years at the end of the equation.

 

[operaman]

Oh my this sure has become an active thread!

WRT the numbers, I would be sure to include the value of state retirement benefits for the teacher as those can be quite substantial when you consider the amount you would have to save to generate a similar level of revenue later. Most states also pay teachers more for more advanced degrees, so you could also do some sort of online doctorate level program while you're still working and perhaps get a decent pay bump from that as well; I've had a number of teacher friends do this over the years. In the doctor column, you will need to consider the educational debt in your model because when you consider interest, it becomes a lot larger than you realize, unless you do end up getting it comped by your family which would be freakin' awesome. Plenty of calculators out there for this, but try to guess how long it will take you to pay it back while also considering the need to save for your retirement. I think the physician will still come out ahead but the exact numbers and break even points would be different. In total fairness, there are practice scenarios where physicians also get some pretty sweet pension/retirement benefits (va, kaiser, etc).

A few thoughts I would add:
1) You have got to shadow and make sure you want this AND try and decide what you want your future practice to look like. Yes, I know most people change their mind, but you're not most people. At 37, you should be able to get an idea of what you want to do as a physician. If you want to be a PCP, then definitely go the PA route because the money is comparable, the time shorter, and your day to day pretty much the same. If you are pretty sure you want another specialty that definitely needs the MD, then do that.

2) I have personally known both men and women who drop out of medical school because they underestimated the family strain and lost time with their kids. I've known others who graduated and made it look easy. This is a highly personal thing, but the time demands of training are very real. You can mitigate this somewhat by your choice of field, but sacrifices are inevitable. Try not to let a troublesome double standard distract from the message that this really does eat up a lot of your life regardless of your gender.

3) In terms of time, medical school is a breeze. It will take whatever you're willing to give it, but you can decide what that level is for you and whatever consequent level of academic performance that means for you personally. In the pre-clinical years, I think it would be pretty doable to be up every morning with your family before school and home around the time they get home, have quality time until they go to bed, and then study more after that. Clinical years vary by service, but honestly most of the time you'd probably be at school similar hours or less than you're working now. There are occasional call nights but these tend to be few in school because you're not actually responsible for doing anything on call. 4th year is basically 2 months of actual work, a few weeks of interviews, and then a few months of "Radiation Vaction" and "Derm-a-holiday" and other such rotations and planned time off. Your overall experience in medical school will be a function of your innate academic prowess and the competitiveness of your desired field.

4) Residency can be a real beast of a time suck. This can vary significantly by field and by program. I'm in a pretty cushy surgical sub and most clinical services for me mean being at the hospital M-F from 5am to 6:30pm, so usually home 6:45-7:00ish. Calls are "home calls" but busy enough that this really means I can go home and shower at least once (sometimes) and also means you don't necessarily get a post-call day. Weekend calls mean 5am to the next day at 10-11am. This is highly program and field dependent. Some do home call like us, some are in house, some do a night float thing. Fields vary a lot: EM will work X number of 8-12 hour shifts per month and all the other days are off. IM residents come in a bit later on some rotations -- maybe more like 6:30-7am and stay til signout (5-6pm ish). Rads and path seem to be a little more like normal hours plus call. Most surgical fields are closer to the 5am-7pm thing with the occasional much later nights that you can't always predict. The difficult thing to factor in here is just how exhausted you will be.

No comment on the relationship things -- I don't give advice to people I actually know much less people I haven't met in person. There are just too many factors at play in relationships and I've personally never been married either to you or to your husband. I do hope things get better and that you both are able to work through these things.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

And I make 55k with increases of about 1k a year. I did my own tables with the ages corrected and using the same amortization’s for the doctor salary column. Teacher at 68 is 2.25M total, Doctor is 5.67M, and PA is 4M (assuming the same annual increases as MD). Break even for MD puts me at 48 years old, 44 for PA (assuming I work part time as a CNA while doing prereqs).

Why not continue working as a teacher and take night classes?

 

[Art2doc]

While I agree with your point, this is pretax and I don't know that physician salaries are easily foreseeable. You have also ignored the value of the pension most teachers receive.

These two factors probably halve the difference.

Yes true

No, I don't think the difference I projected is off by half.

Yes there are taxes, but I also didn't include investment income for a physician's savings. And while you may not be sanguine about doctor salaries, others are. Bottom line, they are expected to continue growing. If you are arguing that the trends over the last several decades won't continue, I think you bear the burden of persuasion, not me.

I also didn't attribute a specialist income to this scenario. In the OB residency I shadowed, a 4th year accepted a position in private practice starting her at over $400,000. I know orthopods and dermatologists making over $2 million a year. You want to see the spreadsheet for those incomes?

Many docs also get the chance to own part of a collateral business, such as an imaging clinic, pharmacy, PT shop, or something else, which shoots their income way up. Docs can be at the top of a business pyramid, where they earn a small percentage from the work of subordinates. Not so much for teachers.

So while there are factors that can go both ways, I deliberately hewed a very modest, middle course on the numbers. And I think you're a little euphoric if you really think teachers are routinely collecting pensions, but if you insist, add $24,000 a year for 20 years at the end of the equation.

24k a year is pretty hopeful the way our pension is going right now. Sixth largest pension in the US and our retirees haven’t had a COLA in 18 years.

 

[Art2doc]

Why not continue working as a teacher and take night classes?

I may do this, but since I have to have experience in the medical field, it’s probably prudent to find a job that requires me to be exposed to it no? And doing that part or full time, while taking prereqs would also free me up to do more shadowing/volunteering, all of which are necessary, especially if I go the PA route.

 

[Art2doc]

I do have some business experience from the management side, but not from the top. I spent 12 years in retail management while putting myself through undergrad.

I’m enjoying the conversation here.

 

[rabbott1971]

Wrt entreprenurial income, if there's no evidence of entreprenurial talent how are we weighing?

Wrt taxes, they are half of high incomes now, likely to go up to 60 or 70% as Boomers retire, millenials grow up, and radleft gains ground.

Wrt using historical trends to predict wage rates, I think that's a reasonable assumption but far from absolute. Markets for doctors work the same way markets work for every other class of labor, and there's little reason to assume there won't be a medpocalypse. I appreciate that residencies gate entrances, but Congress could elect to sharply increase the number of residencies or otherwise ease licensure, or do things (ie make prescription drugs easier to obtain OTC) to lessen demand for medical services.

I only mentioned side business because it happens, and I didn't include it in the doctor income. Not sure the incidence, I stayed vague about it on purpose. Same with investment income, its real, I left it out, thus my model was arguably conservative.

60-70% tax? No, not now, not ever. You don't wholly concede doctors will keep increasing their earnings -- despite unequivocal historical trends plus informed forecasts like I supplied -- yet you hypothesize a massive tax upsurge? A week after a historic tax cut? Nothing is absolute, but let's just project based on current levels, not imagining radical changes.

 

[dpmd]

I want to clarify some stuff because the picture seems to be changed a bit from the OP. Is your husband only going to be unsupportive of you trying to get into med school if you take your step dad's money? Would he be supportive of any other career options if you take your step dad's money while pursuing them. If it is just the accepting of the money that is the issue that is actually pretty understandable. Not everyone is ok with taking money from family.

If it isn't just the money has he articulated what his concerns are. Some stuff is pretty legitimate (wondering what will happen with the numerous potential moves, long hours where you are occupied, not being in a stable situation to pursue his business interests), some may not be unless there are issues he needs to work through (feeling threatened because you will be a doctor while he is not in a high power career, or because the income differential will increase) while others may be related to issues he may have with you (sounds like you control the finances and run the household, maybe he feels you are too controlling of that and by earning even more he might worry you will be even more so, also maybe he worries that your push to advance your career will lead to you pushing for him to advance his). Just speculations as I don't know you guys. Understanding his concerns is important to figuring out what is next for you at a couple.

 

[Gray Fox]

I'm quoting the following because of how incredibly spot on every point is. @Art2doc , read it. Then read it again. Every point here is something you NEED to understand when making this decision. These are things every applicant should consider before applying, but they are especially true for those who have children relying on their success as you do.



For my 20 cents (my opinion is too long for just 2 cents here, sorry) as a (semi-) non-trad who is now finishing up med school with an SO who has been with me 5+ years...

Your current relationship as you describe it is not conducive to being successful in medical school. I'll refrain from giving any professional opinions about your spouses' problems or situation, but from the picture you've painted I feel confident in saying that this relationship would have almost 0% chance of surviving medical school (not to mention residency which is typically even more stressful and time-consuming), and if you did decide to enter medical school in your current situation, I think your chances of getting through would be greatly decreased.

Everyone talks about the stress medical school and residency puts on future physicians, but it's rarely mentioned how much pressure and commitment is required from physician spouses. Spouses need to understand that they are a second priority to medical training, when kids are involved the spouse becomes a tertiary priority. It sounds like your husband already struggles with this, and entering medical school with this situation will only hurt both of you as well as your children. If you two stay together and you pursue medical school, you NEED to have these relationship issues worked out. To add to what Instatewaiter said, I've seen many good relationships fall apart because of medical school, and know of exactly zero relationships that weren't at least "good" that survived medical school. That's not even counting residency. So if you choose to pursue medical school, you need to either make sure your husband is completely on board and providing far more support than he currently is or end the relationship. Not saying what you should do, but I believe entering medical school in your current situation would likely have devastating results.

Now, let's say you decide to end the relationship and pursue medical school (not saying you should or should not do this, just giving my perspective on this hypothetical), there are still going to be many obstacles. In addition to the previously mentioned age-related struggles you'd face, you may very well have to move multiple times to places you've never lived and may not know anyone. If you end up in medical school in another state where you're alone, what will the situation with your kids be like? Will they come with you? If so, will you be able to find a babysitter/support? Or will you sacrifice your own study time and "make it work"? Will their dad fight for custody? Will there be legal issues if you moved away? Etc. Keep in mind, you may not just be moving once, it may be multiple times. You may have to move for medical school. If you go to certain schools (mostly DO), you may have to move again 3rd year when clinical rotations start. You may have to do an audition rotation somewhere and not be home for a month. If that happened who would take care of your children? You may have to move again for residency. That's potentially 3 separate moves in a 4 year period. Are you okay with moving your children around that much? Some people are okay with that. Personally, I wouldn't be.

Then there will be residency, which will be a minimum 3 more years, possibly 6-7 if you pursued something competitive or did fellowships. So from med school to attending would take minimum 7, up to 11 years of your life. That's 7-11 years where you're missing out on major points in your children's lives. Yes, there will be plenty of time to spend with them, but there will also be times when you desperately want to be there for them but won't be able to (missing games/recitals, not being there to help with boy/girl problems, being so tired you can barely function as an individual let alone as a parent, etc). Can you accept that? Earlier I talked about the sacrifices made and support given by spouses, but you should also be aware that some of those will be required to be made by your children as well. So you have to ask yourself if it's worth it.

There are also many unforeseeable/unexpected events that could happen. What if someone gets in an accident or becomes really sick? What if the divorce gets legally messy or there are legal issues with custody (still working under the assumption of you being single here)? What if you fail boards or don't match? What if you get partway through medical school/residency and hate what you're doing? What if something happens to your step-dad and he can't afford to pay your tuition anymore? These are things that most students don't have to deal with or just find a way to deal with if they occur. However, for someone like yourself who is in a unique situation and isn't "most students", any one of these events would likely be far more difficult to handle. So they're just things to keep in mind.

I'm not trying to discourage you from pursuing this path or be overly negative, though I'm sure that's probably how this post is coming across. I'm just a realist, so I think it's important that people have a solid understanding of what they're getting themselves into and some of the hurdles they will/may face in the process. This is especially true for someone entering medical school or pursuing medicine who already has a family with children.

So to summarize in a few points:

If you do decide to pursue medical school, you need to have your relationship situation worked out before you begin. You need to understand that you will be making many sacrifices in terms of your ability to be there for your family, and your family needs to understand that they will be making sacrifices as well. You need to understand that this path will require those around you to be flexible, and will likely require you to be flexible as well (especially given the current situation you've described). Finally, you need to understand that if you pursue this route then you have to commit to it 100%. You can't be constantly distracted with a million other things all the time. Yes, sometimes things will happen and we have to deal with them first and put med school aside temporarily. However, those events have to be the exception, not the norm. If you weigh all these things and still choose to pursue medicine, then go all in and don't look back. If you chose a different route, I don't think any reasonable person would blame you. Either way, I wish you the best of luck in whatever endeavor you decide to pursue and hope everything works out for you regardless of the path you take.

Wow. This x100. You gotta wade thru the crap to find gold nuggets on sdn, but when you find them, they're so worth it.

 

[Stagg737]

I'll pose a question: If my husband were the one wanting to quit his job and pursue medicine, would you all be calling for him to be hung for missing his daughter's early teens?

Calling for him to be hung? No. Thinking less of him as a person for choosing his career over his children? Absolutely.

No. If you posed the same scenario, reversing the genders, people here would see it very differently. I've watched it time and again.

"Hi. My parents are willing to pay for me to go to medical school and pay our living expenses, but my wife doesn't want me to... we have two kids." No one would make a peep about "You are going to miss your kids. How dare you abandon them like that?" They'd instead be saying that the wife was being shortsighted and controlling. Some might go so far as to suggest that he could always cut her loose and find a replacement once he is a doctor. I can almost hear people saying that I'm exaggerating... and if I didn't have better things to do today, I'd go find the threads where I've seen exactly those things said in that context and post the links. Maybe someone else is more motivated than I.

Telling someone not to pursue medicine because their spouse says no and telling someone not to pursue medicine because they'll likely be a single parent missing the bulk of the most important developmental years of their children's lives are not the same thing.

In this situation as OP described it, she may be a single parent tying to care for children who she will frankly struggle heavily to find time to care for on her own. Anyone saying this shouldn't be a major consideration in her decision is setting her up for failure. Additionally, that advice would not be different at all if she were a man.

This also does not seem to be a situation where it's just some boyfriend being an a-hole. It's her husband who she has kids with. I don't think anyone other than a few extreme people would be saying "just dump your spouse and move on", especially since kids are involved. And plenty of people here are saying her husband is being short-sighted and controlling. This is not a thread full of hypocrisy and travesty. There's a lot of good advice that OP should be considering when making her decision, and any male in the same position should have the same considerations as well.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Absolutely ridiculous that you are not listening to your husband.

You have a marriage that's already going downward and want to add medical school to it. That's a recipe for disaster. A girl in my class did the same thing and now she's wonderfully divorced and alone, but if you think that life is comforting then listen to DrMidLife. On top of this, you have a small children and are an older gal. You will start med school at 40 provided you can do the prerequisites and get in. You will begin clinical years at 42 and residency at 44. Prepared to live your life overworked in your mid-40s while being divorced and not able to be in the crucial time of teenage years for your children?

I find it astonishing how people underestimate this or like to throw others into the world of medicine without evaluating life. If you can become an RN or NP, you will make significantly more money and have the time you need for your family.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

No. If you posed the same scenario, reversing the genders, people here would see it very differently. I've watched it time and again.

"Hi. My parents are willing to pay for me to go to medical school and pay our living expenses, but my wife doesn't want me to... we have two kids." No one would make a peep about "You are going to miss your kids. How dare you abandon them like that?" They'd instead be saying that the wife was being shortsighted and controlling. Some might go so far as to suggest that he could always cut her loose and find a replacement once he is a doctor. I can almost hear people saying that I'm exaggerating... and if I didn't have better things to do today, I'd go find the threads where I've seen exactly those things said in that context and post the links. Maybe someone else is more motivated than I.

Just because you're a sexist doesn't mean everyone else is. I've told men here repeatedly to stay clear of medicine when it's an absolutely atrocious choice. Also, your argument rests on the idea that if people encourage a man, it must be okay for the woman. It would be wrong for both a man and a woman in this scenario, and if someone encouraged a man to do it because they are a man, they would be wrong still. We don't encourage women to make poor choices because some men are encouraged to make poor choices.

 

[rabbott1971]

Absolutely ridiculous that you are not listening to your husband.

You have a marriage that's already going downward and want to add medical school to it. That's a recipe for disaster. A girl in my class did the same thing and now she's wonderfully divorced and alone, but if you think that life is comforting then listen to DrMidLife. On top of this, you have a small children and are an older gal. You will start med school at 40 provided you can do the prerequisites and get in. You will begin clinical years at 42 and residency at 44. Prepared to live your life overworked in your mid-40s while being divorced and not able to be in the crucial time of teenage years for your children?

I find it astonishing how people underestimate this or like to throw others into the world of medicine without evaluating life. If you can become an RN or NP, you will make significantly more money and have the time you need for your family.

This seems grossly overstated to me. First, you're conflating an age issue with the family issue. Whether or not she is too old (spoiler she is not) is separate. Second, OP is absolutely listening to her husband, where did you get the idea she is not listening to him? Or by listen to him do you actually mean obey him without question? Third, I don't like how you have decided that its all just too much and she just can't manage it. I don't care for other people to tell me what I'm capable of accomplishing. I would be interested to learn whether you have any kids? Because you seem to project a lot of expertise here that you may not actually possess. Similarly, there is no evidence that OP is doing anything "without evaluating life." I can tell you are stressed out, but please, tone it down a little bit, its Christmas.

 

[Trollest]

This seems grossly overstated to me. First, you're conflating an age issue with the family issue. Whether or not she is too old (spoiler she is not) is separate. Second, OP is absolutely listening to her husband, where did you get the idea she is not listening to him? Or by listen to him do you actually mean obey him without question? Third, I don't like how you have decided that its all just too much and she just can't manage it. I don't care for other people to tell me what I'm capable of accomplishing. I would be interested to learn whether you have any kids? Because you seem to project a lot of expertise here that you may not actually possess. Similarly, there is no evidence that OP is doing anything "without evaluating life." I can tell you are stressed out, but please, tone it down a little bit, its Christmas.

To be fair, you are both right. Only the OP can make that assesment.

 

[Lawpy]

To be fair, you are both right. Only the OP can make that assesment.

And that’s key. Personally, I think OP should pursue her dreams and become a physician. I don’t know how to address her personal problems with an unsupportive spouse, and I don’t think SDN should interfere with her personal life by giving suggestions confidently as if they were experts.

What we need are suggestions from those who are experienced in advising nontrads, so I’m going to tag @gonnif for more input.

 

[Brother Gob]

Hi all, I’m new here. I recently received a very generous offer from my Stepdad to pay for medical school AND my mortgage for the duration. I am 37, married 10 years with two elementary-aged daughters. This is a very different career than my first one and will be a lot work (obviously).

My husband refuses to accept the money from my dad, claiming we are adults and should be able to “take care of ourselves.” You know, bootstraps. He would rather us take out loans to cover med school, for me to chose PT or RN instead, or any other route that would allow me to work full time while attending school.

I’m the breadwinner and have been for 5 years. Going back to school means we would have to sacrifice some comforts, but with my dad’s help it is totally feasible. But he refuses to budge. Fair disclosure: we’ve been in marriage counseling for six months for other reasons, and the marriage isn’t strong. I’m crushed. This chance is literally the best chance to get out of mediocrity for ourselves, our family, and even our grandchildren. And he won’t take it because of his pride. I don’t know what to do next. Either I leave him to pursue it on my own, or he decides to “let” me go to med school and I start the journey with an unsupportive spouse. Any advice?

If your Husband works, and your aspirations would make him work more/ hinder his aspirations, or push him to be overworked, his concerns are valid and should be considered. Period. This mindset of individuality can be very toxic and will inevitably lead to structural issues or divorce. How do I know? I experienced a similar issue where my (then) girlfriend's aspirations *almost* inhibited my chances of getting into a professional school and living my life. How? She over pushed/overworked me and expected me to bend to her goals without regarding mine. I'm not saying you're doing this at all- but what I'm saying is you need to pinpoint why your husband REALLY doesn't want you to go. If its because he'll have to work overtime for 4-10 years, thats a valid concern- a family is a unit. However, if its for some moral superiority of paying for your own stuff- I call bs on his part.

 

[Instatewaiter]

And I make 55k with increases of about 1k a year. I did my own tables with the ages corrected and using the same amortization’s for the doctor salary column. Teacher at 68 is 2.25M total, Doctor is 5.67M, and PA is 4M (assuming the same annual increases as MD). Break even for MD puts me at 48 years old, 44 for PA (assuming I work part time as a CNA while doing prereqs).

How do you figure this when you're not going to be out of residency until you're at a minimum 47?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

This seems grossly overstated to me. First, you're conflating an age issue with the family issue. Whether or not she is too old (spoiler she is not) is separate. Second, OP is absolutely listening to her husband, where did you get the idea she is not listening to him? Or by listen to him do you actually mean obey him without question? Third, I don't like how you have decided that its all just too much and she just can't manage it. I don't care for other people to tell me what I'm capable of accomplishing. I would be interested to learn whether you have any kids? Because you seem to project a lot of expertise here that you may not actually possess. Similarly, there is no evidence that OP is doing anything "without evaluating life." I can tell you are stressed out, but please, tone it down a little bit, its Christmas.

Both age and family can be issues. These things can co-exist.

If you marriage is already down the drain without med school, then it's not baseless to assume one of the most stressful and time consuming professions added on top with have a strain on the marriage.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Just because you're a sexist doesn't mean everyone else is. I've told men here repeatedly to stay clear of medicine when it's an absolutely atrocious choice. Also, your argument rests on the idea that if people encourage a man, it must be okay for the woman. It would be wrong for both a man and a woman in this scenario, and if someone encouraged a man to do it because they are a man, they would be wrong still. We don't encourage women to make poor choices because some men are encouraged to make poor choices.

With respect, there's some psychopathology here and I think its inappropriate to be giving advice.

 

[Gray Fox]

With respect, there's some psychopathology here and I think its inappropriate to be giving advice.

With respect, just because someone has a perspective that's different from yours doesn't make it psychopathology. I disagree with a few posters here but don't think they're "psychopathologic". It's a public forum, and the hope is that the OP can reflect on what everyone is saying so that she can make the best choice for her and her family.

OP, med school is a meat grinder. Residency is a meat grinder. If you go, your family comes too. They gotta be 100% willing and ready to take that plunge. You're gonna miss out on a lot of things with the kids. Will there be resentment? Speaking with colleagues with kids, if they're older and the ride is disruptive to the family (divorce, spousal fighting, etc.), the answer is 'highly possible'.