HSCP Navy

[nata]

I just wanted to put it out there so people know about it. I'm prior Navy starting med school at UW Madison (fall '08) this year. I am going through my recruiter for the HSCP program (active duty E6 pay (full medical and dental/ time counts toward retirement, but you pay tuition (GI bill may be used)). This is the same program that has existed for dental for some time, but is now being offered for med students. I just wanted to make sure people know about it, because as prior service, I think it's a great deal if you are not going to USUHS. I'm not a recruiter, but feel free to e-mail me if you do have a question.

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[TX_NFS]

Might as well bite and ask some questions, but here instead if that's fine with you.

-Did the HSCP just become available for med students this past year? I'm guessing that it is also open to non-prior service people as well?

-Is AD committment 3 years, 4 years, or just year for year (3 minimum?) that you are on the HSCP?

-To make sure (see http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=384086 ), does the time one spends under the HSCP count towards the IRR time you would incur once you become commissioned? i.e. You need to serve 8 years total of some combination of AD + Reserve/IRR as an officer, but would HSCP affect this at all (or knock off 4 years of this obligation once you already serve 4 years as a doc)?

-Lastly, a thread in the mildent forums ( http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=422233 ) also highlighted some differences between HPSP and HSCP. Being in Texas as well, I can see why HSCP is more attractive when in-state tuition is relatively low, but even then, is the E-6 pay really enough to pay for school (in its entirety? or still have to take out some small loans) and to live on? Also, I'm guessing that all of the other things that an HPSPer goes through after graduating from med. school (read: match and possibility for operational tours and what not) apply also to HSCPers?

Thanks in advance.

 

[nata]

Once again, I'll stress I'm not a recruiter, so my answers could be wrong, (on time commitments), but I'll say it as I understand. Having been in the Navy already for just under 10 years, and having the 4 years of med school be counted as active duty and towards retirement, I will say that I don't care what the heck tuition is, I'm going to come out ahead - meaning when I graduate and start my residency, I'll be an O3 over 14. That's a big deal, so the loans aren't too bad. It can depend on your situation, and school. Also, I plan on using the GI bill towards tuition, so that goes a little way.

Answer to questions:
1. HSCP is open to non-priors and priors and just became available this month (or possibly October).
2.I think the commitment is year for year. It will be residency plus payback, so I figure between 7-8, and the time in school will not count as time in IRR (I'm pretty sure/not positive.)
3. Overall monthly pay will vary dependent on where you live. Your allowance for housing is dependent on area. It will also depend on time in service. Prior service will raise the pay, but you don't have to be prior.
4. There is the opportunity to promote if you refer someone to the program or are on the dean's list for 2 semesters. (You can promote to E7 - difference in pay is about 300 / month - I don't have the pay scale in front of me).

I really hope this helps. For me, I have a lot of family support in WI, so USUHS was not the best option for our family (2 kids), but I also think that that is a great way to go for priors. If you are making the military a career, I really think that HSCP(vs HPSP) is better, because of the pay difference once you graduate - check out O3 or O4 at 4 or 6 years vs. 1 or 2. Long term, I think you can make up a difference on the loans, but it would be dependent on tuition. (Do a search on military pay scales and you can do some math. Also look up BAH in the area you're attending school. It can be between 1,000-2,000 / month in addition to base pay).

 

[NavyFP]

Answer to questions:
1. HSCP is open to non-priors and priors and just became available this month (or possibly October).
2.I think the commitment is year for year. It will be residency plus payback, so I figure between 7-8, and the time in school will not count as time in IRR (I'm pretty sure/not positive.)
3. Overall monthly pay will vary dependent on where you live. Your allowance for housing is dependent on area. It will also depend on time in service. Prior service will raise the pay, but you don't have to be prior.
4. There is the opportunity to promote if you refer someone to the program or are on the dean's list for 2 semesters. (You can promote to E7 - difference in pay is about 300 / month - I don't have the pay scale in front of me).

I really hope this helps. For me, I have a lot of family support in WI, so USUHS was not the best option for our family (2 kids), but I also think that that is a great way to go for priors. If you are making the military a career, I really think that HSCP(vs HPSP) is better, because of the pay difference once you graduate - check out O3 or O4 at 4 or 6 years vs. 1 or 2. Long term, I think you can make up a difference on the loans, but it would be dependent on tuition. (Do a search on military pay scales and you can do some math. Also look up BAH in the area you're attending school. It can be between 1,000-2,000 / month in addition to base pay).

You are correct, payback is year for year. Time in med school does not count towards IRR time. If you are going to a relatively low cost state school, this can be a very good deal, especially for prior enlisted.

The question I don't know the answer to is how many years of commissioned service do you need with this program to be allowed to retire as an officer. Many programs require 10 years, but I don't know for this one. I will have to find out.

 

[TX_NFS]

I appreciate the info. Yeah, I forgot about all of the other stuff (BAH) in addition to the base pay. I can also see why such a program may be beneficial to priors or those who want a military career, but I'm not the former and doubt the latter, which is where all my questions stem from.

 

[NavalAv8r]

Nata, I'm a Navy O3 and will also be attending UW-Madison starting Fall '08. I'm just starting to look at HSCP. Do you know if the pay is allocated based on previous time in? For example, will I be eligible for E6 "over 8" base pay while enrolled? Thanks for any help if you know. See you in August.

 

[NavyFP]

Nata, I'm a Navy O3 and will also be attending UW-Madison starting Fall '08. I'm just starting to look at HSCP. Do you know if the pay is allocated based on previous time in? For example, will I be eligible for E6 "over 8" base pay while enrolled? Thanks for any help if you know. See you in August.

Yes, you would be eligible for E-6 over 8. Just as an interesting aside which could apply to you, there is language in the 2008 NDAA which would allow current officers to attend medical school and keep their current pay and allowances as "save pay" but still be recommissioned as an ENS. My JAG has looked at this and it seems to be pretty solid, but there has been no guidance from BUPERS or BUMED. We will have to wait and see. As we have discussed in years past, just because Congress authorizes something, does not mean it will translate into action. (I would refer you to the stipend increase to $30K)

 

[NavalAv8r]

Navy FP - Interesting. Does time in school count toward 20/retirement in that case? That's the real attractive part of HSCP for me. Which subtitle/section of the NDAA are you referencing about "save" pay? Thanks.

 

[NavyFP]

Navy FP - Interesting. Does time in school count toward 20/retirement in that case? That's the real attractive part of HSCP for me. Which subtitle/section of the NDAA are you referencing about "save" pay? Thanks.

I don't recall subtitle but will find out and I don't know (but doubt it would) on if it counts toward retirement.

 

[NavyFP]

Chapter and Verse from 2008 NDAA



SEC. 524. TREATMENT OF PRIOR ACTIVE SERVICE OF MEMBERS IN UNIFORMED MEDICAL ACCESSION PROGRAMS.
(a) MEDICAL STUDENTS OF USUHS.-
(1) TREATMENT OF STUDENTS WITH PRIOR ACTIVE SERVICE.- Section 2114 of title 10, United States Code, is amended-
(A) by redesignating subsections (c) through (h) as subsections
(d) through (i), respectively; and
(B) in subsection (b)-
(i) by inserting ‘‘(1)’’ after ‘‘(b)’’; and
(ii) by inserting after the second sentence the following new paragraph:
‘‘(2) If a member of the uniformed services selected to be a student has prior active service in a pay grade and with years of service credited for pay that would entitle the member, if the member remained in the former grade, to a rate of basic pay in excess of the rate of basic pay for regular officers in the grade of second lieutenant or ensign, the member shall be paid basic pay based on the former grade and years of service credited for pay. The amount of such basic pay for the member shall be increased on January 1 of each year by the percentage by which basic pay is increased on average on that date for that year, and the member shall continue to receive basic pay based on the former grade and years of service until the date, whether occurring before or after graduation, on which the basic pay for the member in the member’s actual grade and years of service credited for pay exceeds the amount of basic pay to which the member is entitled based on the member’s former grade and years of service.’’.
(2) CONFORMING AMENDMENTS.-Such section is further
amended-
(A) in subsection (b), by striking ‘‘Upon graduation they’’ and inserting the following:
‘‘(c) Medical students who graduate’’; and
(B) in subsection (i), as redesignated by paragraph (1), by striking ‘‘subsection (b)’’ and inserting ‘‘subsection (c)’’.
(b) PARTICIPANTS IN HEALTH PROFESSIONS SCHOLARSHIP AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.-Section 2121(c) of such title is
amended-
(1) by inserting ‘‘(1)’’ after ‘‘(c)’’; and
(2) by adding at the end the following new paragraph:
‘‘(2) If a member of the uniformed services selected to participate in the program as a medical student has prior active service in a pay grade and with years of service credited for pay that would entitle the member, if the member remained in the former grade, to a rate of basic pay in excess of the rate of basic pay for regular officers in the grade of second lieutenant or ensign, the member shall VerDate Aug 31 2005 04:52 Dec 09, 2007 Jkt 038809 PO 00000 Frm 00134 Fmt 6659 Sfmt 6603 E:\HR\OC\HR477.XXX HR477 bajohnson on PROD1PC69 with HEARING
103
be paid basic pay based on the former grade and years of service credited for pay. The amount of such basic pay for the member shall be increased on January 1 of each year by the percentage by which basic pay is increased on average on that date for that year, and the member shall continue to receive basic pay based on the former grade and years of service until the date, whether occurring before or after the conclusion of such participation, on which the basic pay for the member in the member’s actual grade and years of service credited for pay exceeds the amount of basic pay to which the member is entitled based on the member’s former grade and years of service.’’.
(c) OFFICERS DETAILED AS STUDENTS AT MEDICAL SCHOOLS.-
(1) APPOINTMENT AND TREATMENT OF PRIOR ACTIVE SERVICE.- Section 2004a of such title is amended-
(A) by redesignating subsections (e) through (h) as subsections
(f) through (i), respectively; and
(B) by inserting after subsection (d) the following new
subsection:
‘‘(e) APPOINTMENT AND TREATMENT OF PRIOR ACTIVE SERVICE.-(
1) A commissioned officer detailed as a student at a medical school under subsection (a) shall be appointed as a regular officer in the grade of second lieutenant or ensign and shall serve on active duty in that grade with full pay and allowances of that grade.
‘‘(2) If an officer detailed to be a medical student has prior active service in a pay grade and with years of service credited for pay that would entitle the officer, if the officer remained in the former grade, to a rate of basic pay in excess of the rate of basic pay for regular officers in the grade of second lieutenant or ensign, the officer shall be paid basic pay based on the former grade and years of service credited for pay. The amount of such basic pay for the officer shall be increased on January 1 of each year by the percentage by which basic pay is increased on average on that date for that year, and the officer shall continue to receive basic pay based on the former grade and years of service until the date, whether occurring before or after graduation, on which the basic pay for the officer in the officer’s actual grade and years of service credited for pay exceeds the amount of basic pay to which the officer is entitled based on the officer’s former grade and years of service.’’.
(2) TECHNICAL AMENDMENT.-Subsection (c) of such section is amended by striking ‘‘subsection (c)’’ and inserting ‘‘subsection (b)’’.
SEC. 525. REPEAL OF POST-2007-2008

 

[NavalAv8r]

Awesome!!! Thanks!

 

[nata]

NavyFP - Quick Question on the NDAA verbage: Could that apply to HSCP, or would it all fall under subset (a) and only to USUHS students?

You've been a great help on this thread. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge.

 

[NavyFP]

NavyFP - Quick Question on the NDAA verbage: Could that apply to HSCP, or would it all fall under subset (a) and only to USUHS students?

You've been a great help on this thread. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge.

As I read it, no. It specifically mentions HPSP and USUHS, but not HSCP. It also refers to Officers which participants of HSCP are not. (yet)

Another item to note. Even if and when this is approved, it will likely not become an active program for 1-2 years. Those starting in 2009 or 2010 may benefit, but not 2008 starts.

 

[nata]

I was a LT who came off active in Sept. It looks like it would hold for prior service officers who are no longer on active duty as well.

I know what you are saying about how these things take time to go into effect, even after they have been signed. Last year, there was also one that had been introduced into NDAA that created the equivalent program for LEP in the medical field (unfortunately, you cannot have exceeded 6 years total service). I don't know if that program is being utilized yet or not.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[DOC8404]

Hey everyone thanks for this great INFO....I am currently an active duty HM2 I intend on applying for Fall09 and would like more info on this HSCP program....Here is the question?

Where is there an instruction about this?

If all of you are in or were in the Navy you know if there is no instruction it doesn't exsist. I found an instruction dated 2003 and as nata stated it was not available for Medical school.

If someone can point me in the direction of the instruction it would be very helpful.

 

[NavyFP]

Hey everyone thanks for this great INFO....I am currently an active duty HM2 I intend on applying for Fall09 and would like more info on this HSCP program....Here is the question?

Where is there an instruction about this?

If all of you are in or were in the Navy you know if there is no instruction it doesn't exsist. I found an instruction dated 2003 and as nata stated it was not available for Medical school.

If someone can point me in the direction of the instruction it would be very helpful.

HSCP for medical school has been thrown together in a hasty fashion. There is not an instruction as yet.

 

[thoredius]

I, too, just came off of Active duty as a LT in the MSC. I am planning to start in AUG 2009 and will try to get HCSP (I was an officer for 9 years). I just wonder what uniform they will have you wear during clerkships (you know, the 45 days of AT). If you make E-7 (due to being on the Dean's list or helping recuite), then show up at NMC San Diego wearing a Chief's uniform....I wonder how the Chief's Mess would react?

It seems like getting the GI Bill along with HSCP is double-dipping.. are you sure you can take both? I was doing the math, even without that, as an E6 over 8, plus BAH, plus BAS, plus the money my wife will not have to shell out for her health insurance is $52K a year and 4 years earlier to retirement vs. $24K a year and a $20K signon.

 

[NavyDoc81]

Okay, so I am almost finished with my HSCP application, but am curious A) When do we find out if we got it, and B) When does it kick in? e.g. Do we have to wait until school starts, which could be problematic for those with families attending out of state medical schools... If anyone has any info. on this it would be most helpful!!! Thanks...

 

[nata]

The date you are eligible is the date that you are eligible to enlist that will be given in your letter of acceptance. I believe this should be one month before your school start date (ie school starts in August so you should be able to enlist in July). This won't help with the move to OOS though, because I have been told that the move is not paid for. My whole application took a few months to get all the way through, but I think the advertised timeline is the same as HPSP, which is 12-14 weeks. Be proactive with your recruiter. Make sure the application is at CNRC and not at the NRD so that it gets seen by the board. Make sure they are not waiting on anything. Don't be afraid to call and follow up.

 

[NavyDoc81]

Thanks, I appreciate the quick response... Ya, I heard the move wasn't paid for... The reason for asking was b/c we were going to try to close on a house this summer, and need the HSCP to have gone threw in order to get the go ahead from the lender... So, you would say I probably wont see any cash until AUG (the month after the enlistment date)?

 

[nata]

Actually, if the paperwork goes through quickly (get your application in and to board), then you should be eligilble to enlist 1 Jul, and you should get the first pay deposit on 15 Jul.

 

[Founder]

Edit: My bad, thought I was doing a new topic.

 

[NavalAv8r]

Re: the uniform question: my understanding is that there is no AT with HSCP. If I do a clerkship at a military facility, I'll wear a chief's uniform unless they tell me differently.

 

[NavalAv8r]

FALSE: "Also, to my knowlege, there IS a $20K bonus for HSCP as well. My recruiter is telling me I'm getting it."

I have been corrected on this. My NRD guys confused their programs.

 

[NavyFP]

Re: the uniform question: my understanding is that there is no AT with HSCP. If I do a clerkship at a military facility, I'll wear a chief's uniform unless they tell me differently.

I would say wear Chief's Anchors at your peril.(Chiefs will want to kick your butt. ) The E-6/7 is a pay grade in this program, not a rank. There has been much discussion in this area and it is likely you will wear Midshipman's anchors. There is also discussion for TAD money for HSCP, but none available yet.

Also, to my knowlege, there IS a $20K bonus for HSCP as well. My recruiter is telling me I'm getting it.

There is no bonus for HSCP. The $20K is for HPSP only.

 

[NavyMedicine]

HSCP does not get the 20K Critical Skills Accession Bonus. It was only approved for HPSP.

Just to let everyone know. You can apply to both HPSP and HSCP with no further effort on your part. Then you can decide what's best for you during the board process. Just apply for both to keep your options open.

www.navyofficer.info

 

[Bubblehead-to-MD]

I, too, just came off of Active duty as a LT in the MSC. I am planning to start in AUG 2009 and will try to get HCSP (I was an officer for 9 years). I just wonder what uniform they will have you wear during clerkships (you know, the 45 days of AT). If you make E-7 (due to being on the Dean's list or helping recuite), then show up at NMC San Diego wearing a Chief's uniform....I wonder how the Chief's Mess would react?

It seems like getting the GI Bill along with HSCP is double-dipping.. are you sure you can take both? I was doing the math, even without that, as an E6 over 8, plus BAH, plus BAS, plus the money my wife will not have to shell out for her health insurance is $52K a year and 4 years earlier to retirement vs. $24K a year and a $20K signon.

What about tuition and books? I'm not familiar with all of the details of the HSCP - are these paid for as part of the program? If not, that can be a significant amount of money, depending on which school you end up attending.

 

[NavyMedicine]

HSCP only pays the student. There is no affiliation with the school. You simply get paid as an E-6/E-7 with all pay and allowances. Time counts toward active service. When you graduate you will be superceded to 0-3 over 4. Time counts toward retirement. ID Card. Family Tricare. All the benefits of active Duty.

www.navyofficer.info

 

[NavyFP]

HSCP only pays the student. There is no affiliation with the school. You simply get paid as an E-6/E-7 with all pay and allowances. Time counts toward active service. When you graduate you will be superceded to 0-3 over 4. Time counts toward retirement. ID Card. Family Tricare. All the benefits of active Duty.

www.navyofficer.info

Right, active duty pay only. No tuition, book, fee assistance. But you can use the GI bill if eligible.

 

[explorer_tx]

How about this section stating being detailed to a med institution. Does it apply to those of us applying to the HSCP. If they do it for students at USHUS and HPSP, Why could it not be done for the other?

OFFICERS DETAILED AS STUDENTS AT MEDICAL SCHOOLS.-
(1) APPOINTMENT AND TREATMENT OF PRIOR ACTIVE SERVICE.- Section 2004a of such title is amended-
(A) by redesignating subsections (e) through (h) as subsections
(f) through (i), respectively; and
(B) by inserting after subsection (d) the following new
subsection:
‘‘(e) APPOINTMENT AND TREATMENT OF PRIOR ACTIVE SERVICE.-(
1) A commissioned officer detailed as a student at a medical school under subsection (a) shall be appointed as a regular officer in the grade of second lieutenant or ensign and shall serve on active duty in that grade with full pay and allowances of that grade.
‘‘(2) If an officer detailed to be a medical student has prior active service in a pay grade and with years of service credited for pay that would entitle the officer, if the officer remained in the former grade, to a rate of basic pay in excess of the rate of basic pay for regular officers in the grade of second lieutenant or ensign, the officer shall be paid basic pay based on the former grade and years of service credited for pay. The amount of such basic pay for the officer shall be increased on January 1 of each year by the percentage by which basic pay is increased on average on that date for that year, and the officer shall continue to receive basic pay based on the former grade and years of service until the date, whether occurring before or after graduation, on which the basic pay for the officer in the officer's actual grade and years of service credited for pay exceeds the amount of basic pay to which the officer is entitled based on the officer's former grade and years of service.''.
(2) TECHNICAL AMENDMENT.-Subsection (c) of such section is amended by striking ‘‘subsection (c)'' and inserting ‘‘subsection (b)''.
SEC. 525. REPEAL OF POST-2007-2008

 

[NavyFP]

How about this section stating being detailed to a med institution. Does it apply to those of us applying to the HSCP. If they do it for students at USHUS and HPSP, Why could it not be done for the other?

OFFICERS DETAILED AS STUDENTS AT MEDICAL SCHOOLS.-
(1) APPOINTMENT AND TREATMENT OF PRIOR ACTIVE SERVICE.- Section 2004a of such title is amended-
(A) by redesignating subsections (e) through (h) as subsections
(f) through (i), respectively; and
(B) by inserting after subsection (d) the following new
subsection:
‘‘(e) APPOINTMENT AND TREATMENT OF PRIOR ACTIVE SERVICE.-(
1) A commissioned officer detailed as a student at a medical school under subsection (a) shall be appointed as a regular officer in the grade of second lieutenant or ensign and shall serve on active duty in that grade with full pay and allowances of that grade.
‘‘(2) If an officer detailed to be a medical student has prior active service in a pay grade and with years of service credited for pay that would entitle the officer, if the officer remained in the former grade, to a rate of basic pay in excess of the rate of basic pay for regular officers in the grade of second lieutenant or ensign, the officer shall be paid basic pay based on the former grade and years of service credited for pay. The amount of such basic pay for the officer shall be increased on January 1 of each year by the percentage by which basic pay is increased on average on that date for that year, and the officer shall continue to receive basic pay based on the former grade and years of service until the date, whether occurring before or after graduation, on which the basic pay for the officer in the officer’s actual grade and years of service credited for pay exceeds the amount of basic pay to which the officer is entitled based on the officer’s former grade and years of service.’’.
(2) TECHNICAL AMENDMENT.-Subsection (c) of such section is amended by striking ‘‘subsection (c)’’ and inserting ‘‘subsection (b)’’.
SEC. 525. REPEAL OF POST-2007-2008

No, because you are not a commissioned officer in this program.
Officers must resign their commissions to enter this program.

 

[teacherman84]

Since you are attending school active duty would you be able to claim in-state residency status for tuition purposes? I know for undergrad I could get in-state tuition at my state universities and in the state where my mom was stationed...since you are active duty I would imagine this applies...does anyone have any experience with this?
Also, can nonpriors use the GI Bill to help with tuition in this program?Thanks

 

[teacherman84]

Anyone? No one has used HCSP to go to an out of state school?

 

[NavyFP]

Anyone? No one has used HCSP to go to an out of state school?

In state vs out of state does not matter. The difference to you is how much you have to pony up for tuition. If tuition goes much above $18K, HPSP is a much better deal.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

In state vs out of state does not matter. The difference to you is how much you have to pony up for tuition. If tuition goes much above $18K, HPSP is a much better deal.

Doc, actually it does matter. Here is what I think teacherman is alluding to. When you are on active duty in some states (even though you are a resident of another state), the state you are stationed in will allow you to go to their state funded schools at the in-state rate because you are stationed in their state while on active duty. Since an HSCP student is technically on orders while attending a state funded school, would they qualify for the in-state tuition (even though they are residents of another state) like a normal active duty member would qualify for.

If the schools would allow this, then the HSCP becomes a whole lot more attractive to people attending out of state schools since they would save a whole lot of money by not paying out of state tuition. Hear is an example: UTMB in Galveston, TX - instate ~$13k out of state ~$26k. If someone from Illinois got accepted to UTMB, they would pay ~$26k per year tuition. But, if they or a spouse got stationed at Ellington Field (NASA), they might qualify for the instate tuition rate because of the reasons I stated above. That would save them ~$13k per year in tuition. So, the question is, would they receive the same benefit of getting instate tuition as an Active Duty out of state resident stationed in Texas while they are in the HSCP program since a person is on AD while in the HSCP program? If he could get this benefit, in this case, even though out of staters pay ~26k per year, the HSCP would be the better choice becuase he would only pay instate tuition.

First of all, ultimately, the people to answer this question will be the financial aid office personnel at the school you are looking to attend.

My take on this is that you have to prove your residency to the school before you even get into the HSCP program. Therefore, technically, you are an out of stater when accepted. The HSCP doesn't start until day 1 of classes (this is when your orders take effect). Without the acceptance at the school, you wouldn't be on active duty there. So, the school may look at this as the only reason you are on AD in their state is because you are attending medical school there. Are they going to give you that benefit (if that state offers it)? In a way, it is skirting the system, but who knows if it will work. I don't think anyone here can answer that since we don't have the say on it. As I said before, the financial aid folks would be your best bet to discuss this with.

If you could qualify as you did for undergrad, more power to you! Good luck.

 

[adrenalitis]

I was thinking about joining this program, but a question occurred to me. If you are paid as an E-6 in paycheck installments instead of the medical school getting a check for your tuition, then how do you pay for the tuition bill upfront in Aug? Are you expected to, or could you even, take out stafford loans to pay the bill and then pay off those with your military paycheck?

 

[NavyFP]

I was thinking about joining this program, but a question occurred to me. If you are paid as an E-6 in paycheck installments instead of the medical school getting a check for your tuition, then how do you pay for the tuition bill upfront in Aug? Are you expected to, or could you even, take out stafford loans to pay the bill and then pay off those with your military paycheck?

I would suspect loans would be needed if you don't already have a lump of cash in the bank. Some schools may be willing to take a payment plan, but that would be up to the school.

 

[mdmed2012]

In terms of residency, is this program similar to the HPSP? Do you do a military or civillian residency? Do you somehow get more "freedom" in choosing your specialty? If not, what makes this any different from the HPSP regarding obligation?

Also, is this program available to current medical students, or must you start from first year?

 

[NavyFP]

In terms of residency, is this program similar to the HPSP? Do you do a military or civillian residency? Do you somehow get more "freedom" in choosing your specialty? If not, what makes this any different from the HPSP regarding obligation?

Also, is this program available to current medical students, or must you start from first year?

As far as GME goes, the same rules apply to HSCP as HPSP.

You could sign up for this program at any time.

 

[RogerWilco]

I, too, just came off of Active duty as a LT in the MSC. I am planning to start in AUG 2009 and will try to get HCSP (I was an officer for 9 years). "



So for those of us who have prior service...will HSCP pay you as an E6/ over x number of years already served or just as an E6 over 2 yrs


thanks

 

[ringerthrawn]

I am curious about some other aspects of this program. My wife is interested in joining me in the navy (I am a 4 year navy LT) via a medical program. What is the age limit for HSCP or HPSP?

 

[NavyFP]

I, too, just came off of Active duty as a LT in the MSC. I am planning to start in AUG 2009 and will try to get HCSP (I was an officer for 9 years). "



So for those of us who have prior service...will HSCP pay you as an E6/ over x number of years already served or just as an E6 over 2 yrs


thanks

I am curious about some other aspects of this program. My wife is interested in joining me in the navy (I am a 4 year navy LT) via a medical program. What is the age limit for HSCP or HPSP?

Should pay over x number of years. There is no save pay for HSCP though.
Age limit is that you are able to complete 20 years of active service prior to age 62.

 

[Maverick10]

I already know the basic differences between the two programs, but I received conflicting information regarding the optional clinical rotations students can do at Navy hospitals during summers while in medical school with either of these programs. I was told that:

HPSP students who have already completed officer training are eligible to participate in the clinical rotations at navy hospitals and that some sort of Navy medical command will sign or set you up and coordinate these clinical rotations for you.

HSCP students are technically enlisted personnel during medical school and while they have the option to do some of these clinical rotations,the navy won't set it up for you and it is therefore more uncommon to be able to take advantage of this opportunity.

Is there anybody who is currently on Navy HSCP that can provide some insight on this matter?

 

[Maverick10]

It was my understanding based on conversations with Navy Recruiters that on HSCP I would have an Active Duty Obligation equal to either the length of medical school or the length of a residency program (if completing a military residency program) WHICHEVER IS LONGER.

However, I just found a HSCP Service Agreement which said:

" (2) Upon acceptance of a commission, I will be required to serve at least eight years as an Officer in the United States Navy, of which at least three years must be on active duty, as required by the designator for which I have been selected.

(3) In return for ____ years of sponsorship in the HSCP, I shall serve ___ years of extended active duty and serve ____ years in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR), unless it is served on active duty or in the Selected Reserve."

What is this 8 years business and what is this additonal Reserve years? I was not told about that...

 

[NavyFP]

I already know the basic differences between the two programs, but I received conflicting information regarding the optional clinical rotations students can do at Navy hospitals during summers while in medical school with either of these programs. I was told that:

HPSP students who have already completed officer training are eligible to participate in the clinical rotations at navy hospitals and that some sort of Navy medical command will sign or set you up and coordinate these clinical rotations for you.

HSCP students are technically enlisted personnel during medical school and while they have the option to do some of these clinical rotations,the navy won't set it up for you and it is therefore more uncommon to be able to take advantage of this opportunity.

Is there anybody who is currently on Navy HSCP that can provide some insight on this matter?

You are learning some of the significant differences between HPSP and HSCP. HPSP students are required to do 45 days of annual training per year of scholarship. During their last year they will typically do 2 clerkships on the Navy's dime at Naval Hospitals. HSCP are already on active duty, so they must request to go TAD (active duty travel orders). Since HSCP students belong to Navy Recruiting Command, they must submit their request to the local Navy Recruiting District for orders to travel. As you can guess, it is unlikely there will be funds available for this. There is no actual requirement for you to travel, but it is in your best interest to do rotations at the beginning of your 4th year. So how do you accomplish this? You can request no cost TAD and pay the travel expenses yourself. You can stay in the BEQ at the hospital and eat in the hospital galley for fairly cheap, so the big cost will be travel to the hospital.

HPSP does not actually set up the rotations, the students do and you can arrange them in the same way. Go to the HPSP website for contact information for the clerkships. It is under the annual training section.

While on a rotation, you do not wear a uniform. As you point out, you are technically enlisted, but you are not a Petty Officer. If you were to show up wearing a Chief's uniform, the Chiefs would kick your butt. White coat and tie will suffice.

It was my understanding based on conversations with Navy Recruiters that on HSCP I would have an Active Duty Obligation equal to either the length of medical school or the length of a residency program (if completing a military residency program) WHICHEVER IS LONGER.

However, I just found a HSCP Service Agreement which said:

" (2) Upon acceptance of a commission, I will be required to serve at least eight years as an Officer in the United States Navy, of which at least three years must be on active duty, as required by the designator for which I have been selected.

(3) In return for ____ years of sponsorship in the HSCP, I shall serve ___ years of extended active duty and serve ____ years in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR), unless it is served on active duty or in the Selected Reserve."

What is this 8 years business and what is this additonal Reserve years? I was not told about that...

When you sign up for HSCP you incur an identical obligation as HPSP. For every year of sponsorship, you owe one year not in training. There is also a minimum commitment of 8 years. Much of this will be spent in training and paying back your obligation, but if you are on active duty for less than 8 years, the remaining time will be in the Individual Ready Reserve. While in the IRR, you do not have to do anything with the Navy, but should the need arise, you could be called back to active duty. The Navy has yet to call anyone off the IRR roles, but it is possible.

 

[Maverick10]

Thanks a lot, it's refreshing to get some straight answers and to know exactly what I'm getting myself into.

I will be starting med school in the fall and will be paying in state tuition. I know I want to do one of the Navy scholarship programs--and as of right now however, I don't think I will be making a career out of Navy medicine. With that, do you think it would be more beneficial to just do HPSP and already be an officer and have the Navy pay for summer rotations, or do HSCP in which while being "enlisted" for a little while and having to pay for summer rotations, I would also be earning years of service for later?

 

[NavyFP]

Thanks a lot, it's refreshing to get some straight answers and to know exactly what I'm getting myself into.

I will be starting med school in the fall and will be paying in state tuition. I know I want to do one of the Navy scholarship programs--and as of right now however, I don't think I will be making a career out of Navy medicine. With that, do you think it would be more beneficial to just do HPSP and already be an officer and have the Navy pay for summer rotations, or do HSCP in which while being "enlisted" for a little while and having to pay for summer rotations, I would also be earning years of service for later?

In Texas, with in-state tuition. HSCP is the better deal. Usually.

 

[Maverick10]

I would say wear Chief's Anchors at your peril.(Chiefs will want to kick your butt. ) The E-6/7 is a pay grade in this program, not a rank. There has been much discussion in this area and it is likely you will wear Midshipman's anchors. There is also discussion for TAD money for HSCP, but none available yet.



There is no bonus for HSCP. The $20K is for HPSP only.

Performing Clerkships. Although HSCP students are granted active duty status, OCIU6/7 does not confer a specific uniformed rank to the student. As such, students will perform rotations in appropriate civilian professional attire. HSCP students will have the same rights and responsibilities of all rotating medical students and are expected to conduct themselves in such manner. While performing clerkships, students should arrange interviews with program directors for internship positions.

 

[NavyFP]

Performing Clerkships. Although HSCP students are granted active duty status, OCIU6/7 does not confer a specific uniformed rank to the student. As such, students will perform rotations in appropriate civilian professional attire. HSCP students will have the same rights and responsibilities of all rotating medical students and are expected to conduct themselves in such manner. While performing clerkships, students should arrange interviews with program directors for internship positions.

This guidance is the most current.

 

[NavyFP]

Since this is good gouge. Here is the entire document referenced above.

Guidelines for Health Services Collegiate Program Participants
Medical Student Clinical Clerkships


Background. The Health Services Collegiate Program (HSCP) is an accession program whose participants are completing professional school in an active duty status. Members are enlisted as an Officer Candidate Under Instruction - 6 (OCUI6) which provides pay and benefits at the E-6 level with potential promotion to the E-7 level. No additional funding for education is authorized in this program. To be competitive for selection into Graduate Medical Education (GME), students participate in 4 week clinical clerkships at Navy Medical Treatment Facilities. These “audition rotations” are essential to both the student and the programs for selection of future interns. Funding for HPSP and USU participants to perform these clerkships is available via the respective programs, but no such funding exists for HSCP students. Despite this lack of funding, it is important for HSCP students to perform these rotations.

Scheduling Clinical Clerkships. In December of the third medical/osteopathic school year, students must consider an area in which they wish further training after medical school. He/she then arranges dates for 4 week rotations or “clerkships” in those areas. Points of contact for Navy clerkships are available on the NM MPT&E Accessions Department website at: http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/accessions/Pages/SchedulingClinicalClerkships.aspx. It is recommended that clerkships be done at the student’s top 2 choices for training. This allows the program staff to evaluate the student for ability and fit, as well as gives the student an opportunity to evaluate the program. Military rotations/clerkships should be accomplished between July and mid November of the fourth year of medical training. This gives reasonable proximity to the selection board which occurs in late November. Although the vast majority of schools accept Navy hospitals for clinical rotations, students should check with their school to ensure appropriate credit for rotations at Navy hospitals.

Arranging Orders. HSCP students are administratively attached to a local Naval Recruiting District (NRD). Once clerkships have been scheduled, students need to request “No Cost TAD” orders from the NRD. The student will be responsible for all costs associated with travel, food and lodging during the clerkship. It is recommended that the student secure lodging in the local Bachelor Enlisted Quarters and take meals in the hospital galley to keep rotation costs low. Local GME coordinators can assist with phone numbers for area military lodging facilities.

Performing Clerkships. Although HSCP students are granted active duty status, OCIU6/7 does not confer a specific uniformed rank to the student. As such, students will perform rotations in appropriate civilian professional attire. HSCP students will have the same rights and responsibilities of all rotating medical students and are expected to conduct themselves in such manner. While performing clerkships, students should arrange interviews with program directors for internship positions.

Additional Counseling/Guidance. The Medical Corps section of Student Programs at NM MPT&E Accessions is happy to assist HSCP students with questions about clerkships. Students may contact by e-mail at [email protected] with the subject line of Career Planning – OCUI6 (last name) or by phone at 301-295-1217 or 301-319-4517.