How will I pay off my loans? $560,000

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idktisnf

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So w/ my undergrad loans (40k) + my medical school loans (w/ interest) by the time I graduate, I will have $560,000 in student loans to pay back. My school tuition is 34k, the grad plus is 30k & i take out another 30k a year because I have a wife & 3 kids..

How in the hell am I gonna pay this back??

-Thanks for your advice

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Wow, I think you need to tone down your cost of living. Where are you getting an extra $30K in living expenses? I have never heard of such a huge private loan a year? Also you should be able to max your staffords at like $40,500 as well as I never heard of someone having a budget that high for $30K living for grad plus. I'm really confused :confused:

I think you need to cut back the loans and maybe have your wife get a part-time job. Many families live off a budget that is less than what you've got going for you. That would be my suggestion. Cut the fat and live like a student. You're living off of $60K in loans a year which I've never heard of for a student. I've never (personally) seen more than $30K a year for living expenses and that is with some larger private loans! Do people really get $60K a year? How do schools responsibly LET people take that much out? Oh and I'm moving this to financial aid.
 
Yeah, I'm curious as to what type of loan this other $30k is after the GradPlus. Is it school approved, or is it one of those private loans that let you borrow beyond your school's cost of attendance? It's bad enough to be borrowing as much as you are, but the terms on that extra $30k might be really bad, too.

I agree that you're going to have to find some way to cut back your budget. There are tons of resources online regarding frugality -- just do a quick internet search, and you'll find more than you ever needed to know. Also, is there any way your wife could make some money at home? I've known of women in her situation who have taken in other children for babysitting or done things like medical transcription. Have you checked to see if your wife and kids qualify for Medicaid? If so, that could save you several thousand dollars in insurance.
 
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All my loans are coming from the graduate plus loan program since I maxed out the stafford loans. (30,000 tuition + 22,000 living expense) I came to school with undergrad loans as well which count towards the total you can borrow from the stafford over your lifetime.

We get $22,000 for living expenses at VCOM and our tuition has been $29,000, but it went up to $30,000 this year i think.

Dont get private loans for any reason. Now that the grad PLUS program is established I would highly recommend using it. You can consoludate the PLUS loans but you can not with the private loans.

To the OP - that is a whole lot of money. I had 2 kids also. YOu really need to look into other options rather than the extra 30K. That is going to be way too much. Most schools have a cap you can borrow for the whole 4 years. I would highly suggest you sit down with your financial aid people and make sure you are doing the right thing.
 
Your wife needs a job or if she has one already, a better paying job.
 
Your wife needs a job or if she has one already, a better paying job.

First let's say the obvious...
Hasselhoff is a geek.

Secondly, if you'll owe almost 600k then you guys need to stop buying something. Start living like a student...not like a movie mogul.
 
I agree, cut back. Do you have a heroin habit or something? that is a crazy amount of money.

After that, make sure your grades are extremely good and look at neurosurgery or interventional radiology.
 
I agree, cut back. Do you have a heroin habit or something? that is a crazy amount of money.

After that, make sure your grades are extremely good and look at neurosurgery or interventional radiology.

My rent: $1115
Car pmt: $540
Car ins: $150
Health ins: $380
Cell phone: $200
Utilities: $250
Cable: $100

That = $2735 per month in bills + around $500 a week in gas & groceries for my, my wife, & our 3 kids.. That = $56k per year in living expenses..

My wife stays at home w/ our 3 kids.. Even if I put them in daycare ($1500 per mo) then my wife wouldn't be able to make much more than that.. I hate daycare's too..

Where I go to school, the living expenses are high..

Oh well...
 
Ok, what if I can get the loan amount (with the interest included) to $450k by the time I finish a 5 yr gen surg residency? That would make things much better right?
 
My rent: $1115
Car pmt: $540
Car ins: $150
Health ins: $380
Cell phone: $200
Utilities: $250
Cable: $100

That = $2735 per month in bills + around $500 a week in gas & groceries for my, my wife, & our 3 kids.. That = $56k per year in living expenses..

My wife stays at home w/ our 3 kids.. Even if I put them in daycare ($1500 per mo) then my wife wouldn't be able to make much more than that.. I hate daycare's too..

Where I go to school, the living expenses are high..

Oh well...

I have no clue where you live so I can't comment on the rent, but the rest of the expenses give you some room for savings. The big one is the car payment. That's a huge amount to pay on a student's budget. Is that for two cars or one? Is there any way you can downgrade and get a used cheapo car to drive around? Also, $200/month for a cell phone strikes me as pretty high. Ours comes out to about $80/month with all the associated fees, and we get more minutes than we need. If you need lots of extra minutes because you talk on the phone a ton, maybe check out something like vonage.

$500 for gas and groceries a week seems really high, too. Maybe you guys need to cut out extraneous trips and think about getting a smaller car. If you live in an expensive area, I'm guessing it's urban, meaning there's some public transit. You can explore options like taking the bus to school or even biking/busing. As for food, there have been a ton of threads here and in allo about how to eat cheaply, which would be applicable to a family. Basically, you need to not buy tons of processed food and avoid eating out as much as possible.
 
Ok, what if I can get the loan amount (with the interest included) to $450k by the time I finish a 5 yr gen surg residency? That would make things much better right?

Here's a calculator you can use to figure that out. You're still looking at some pretty steep monthly payments. Also, I'm not trying to be mean here, but if you're living on $60k/year now that you're in med school, how are you going to be able to reduce your debt during residency. Unless you really cut back, you're going to wind up living beyond your salary as a resident.

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml
 
Here's a calculator you can use to figure that out. You're still looking at some pretty steep monthly payments. Also, I'm not trying to be mean here, but if you're living on $60k/year now that you're in med school, how are you going to be able to reduce your debt during residency. Unless you really cut back, you're going to wind up living beyond your salary as a resident.

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml
Absolutely correct. There are many people in the in non-trad forum who have found interesting ways to save. I'm guessing b/c of day-care comment you have children who are not of school age. You're wife could work on weekends or get a job at night. You might need to cut the costs like the cellphone (only get one that you share) or get a pre-paid plan for emergency use only. If you are commuting to school, move closer to hospital/school in a smaller place. Cars - buy used and in cash. Get rid of cable. Your kids might not like that (nor your wife) but I'm sorry. Everyone has to make sacrafices. That brings you down a whole $1000 less a month.

Having that much in loans is insane and I'm very surprised that your school is letting you borrow that much. I hate to be pessimistic but realistically med school isn't made for living expenses of $3500/mn. Hence the need for your wife to work. If you're wife isn't going to work then maybe you need to reconsider your priorities.

And what are your loans WITHOUT interest. This whole with interest thing is the wrong way to look at it.
 
Absolutely correct. There are many people in the in non-trad forum who have found interesting ways to save. I'm guessing b/c of day-care comment you have children who are not of school age. You're wife could work on weekends or get a job at night. You might need to cut the costs like the cellphone (only get one that you share) or get a pre-paid plan for emergency use only. If you are commuting to school, move closer to hospital/school in a smaller place. Cars - buy used and in cash. Get rid of cable. Your kids might not like that (nor your wife) but I'm sorry. Everyone has to make sacrafices. That brings you down a whole $1000 less a month.

Having that much in loans is insane and I'm very surprised that your school is letting you borrow that much. I hate to be pessimistic but realistically med school isn't made for living expenses of $3500/mn. Hence the need for your wife to work. If you're wife isn't going to work then maybe you need to reconsider your priorities.

And what are your loans WITHOUT interest. This whole with interest thing is the wrong way to look at it.

Reconsider my priorities? What are you talking about?? Are you kidding me?? We don't have anything special. We don't live like rich people. We still live like students. What are my priorities? Do get through med school w/out putting my children in daycare? Thats a pretty good priority if you ask me.

W/out interest, i'm borrowing 350k for tuition (38k) & living expenses each year. Thats only 100k more than the typical single student at a private school. I asked for your advice people not your criticism!. I'm gonna come out w/ alot in loans but, ill be a surgeon & able to pay it back comfortably in 10 yrs.. I love my kids & would never ever ever put them in daycare. Any of you parents that put your kids in daycare are horrible parents..
 
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Reconsider my priorities? What are you talking about?? Are you kidding me?? We don't have anything special. We don't live like rich people. We still live like students. What are my priorities? Do get through med school w/out putting my children in daycare? Thats a pretty good priority if you ask me.

W/out interest, i'm borrowing 350k for tuition (38k) & living expenses each year. Thats only 100k more than the typical single student at a private school. I asked for your advice people not your criticism!. I'm gonna come out w/ alot in loans but, ill be a surgeon & able to pay it back comfortably in 10 yrs.. I love my kids & would never ever ever put them in daycare. Any of you parents that put your kids in daycare are horrible parents..
Whoa there, you completely miscontrued what I said, then you turn around and throw a jab at daycare? Sorry, I tried to help you and you just didn't seem to figure out it was constructive criticism. I gave you advice and you chose to ignore it. Don't jump on the messenger here as I was the ONLY trying to offer a "how" in helping to reduce your budget. $350K is insane for school and yes you might have a hard time paying that back, especially after interest.
 
Whoa there, you completely miscontrued what I said, then you turn around and throw a jab at daycare? Sorry, I tried to help you and you just didn't seem to figure out it was constructive criticism. I gave you advice and you chose to ignore it. Don't jump on the messenger here as I was the ONLY trying to offer a "how" in helping to reduce your budget. $350K is insane for school and yes you might have a hard time paying that back, especially after interest.

How is 350 much different from 250 (which is the avg for a single student in private school)?
 
So w/ my undergrad loans (40k) + my medical school loans (w/ interest) by the time I graduate, I will have $560,000 in student loans to pay back. My school tuition is 34k, the grad plus is 30k & i take out another 30k a year because I have a wife & 3 kids..

How in the hell am I gonna pay this back??

when you finish residency
 
How is 350 much different from 250 (which is the avg for a single student in private school)?

Go run the figures in the calculator I posted above to see how it's different. And I hate to say it but there are a lot of contingencies in your plan. For example, what if surgery doesn't work out? And yes, I'm sure you're not living like rich people, but some of here have pointed out a few areas where you could economize and live on less. I just don't think anybody here in good conscience can say it's OK to borrow that much money without worrying about having trouble paying it back.
 
Any of you parents that put your kids in daycare are horrible parents..

I think this is an extremely asinine comment. Daycare is the reality for millions of Americans. My husband and I both have to work full time to make only slightly more than what you and your wife are getting in loans. Wow, must suck to be us, right?
 
How is 350 much different from 250 (which is the avg for a single student in private school)?
Where did you get this figure? The avg student has about $150-$175K in debt (national avg). SDN compiled data claims the avg tuition for MD schools is $33K and DO schools $34K, most get about $20K for living expenses a year.

And yes that difference IS alot when you include interest (and the rate of interest). The fact is that with $350K the bulk of your loans is private compared with $250K where you don't have as many private loans at the higher interest rate. I know a few people that will have $250K in loans, I think $100K is a HUGE difference between $350K.

I'm not judging you, calling you a bad parent, etc, but I'm just trying to help you with the consequences of the amount of loans you're taking out. There are ways that you can reduce it and it would be in your best interest to try to take a shot at it.
 
Get a used car and get rid of the cable. Also, your wife needs a job if she doesnt have one already.
 
ahhhh i spent 5 whole minutes on that post!

I apologize. I appreciate your response, but in order to maintain a civil environment both the responses were removed. In order to be fair one couldn't be removed without the other as well.

Please refrain from inflammatory language and/or responses.
 
While I agree with the majority of the suggestions people have offered, I'm curious how many of you are:

1) In med school
2) Have children

The point I'm trying to make is that some of your suggestions, i.e., having only one car, spouse getting a full- or part-time job would work only under pretty restrictive circumstances.

I had a 6-week old newborn when we moved cross-country to start medical school. We had some savings entering med school, so aside from about $30k in combined undergraduate loans, we had no other outstanding debt.

After the first year, our savings quickly dwindled, so we decided that my wife would work full-time and we'd place our child in daycare.

Daycare where we lived was $900/mo for one child. High-paying jobs weren't plentiful, but my wife was able to find a medical billing job that paid $28K/yr, which covered daycare and also provided cheaper and better health insurance for the family than either paying out of pocket or crappy school insurance. But, quite honestly, after that, there was very little money over and above that. Work clothes for an office setting, gas for work commuting - it adds up.

After my child's *fifth* middle ear infection in the space of a year from exposure to other kids in daycare, we reevaluated the time off work my wife had to take to care for our child, the relatively small amount of money my wife made, and decided it wasn't worth it, and took out additional loans.

We owned both our cars, and only had to pay for insurance. But we had two station wagons and only one kid at the time. Having three would almost necessitate us getting a large(r) station wagon or minivan. That would cost.

Certain aspects of the OP's budget seem off. But I also think the OP didn't do a great job of detailing his budget. That car note and insurance - is that for one car or two? I can't see you guys without two cars, and my guess is that you have a beater car for yourself, and a minivan for the fam. I'm guessing the car note is for the van, and the insurance covers both. If so, it's not an unreasonable cost.

$2k/mo for gas and food seem a tad high, but I don't know if it's mac and cheese or steak every night, or whether that includes eating out.

$2400/yr for two cell phones is really high. We have two cell phones, no home phone, and pay $70/mo. The family share plan make sure that the people we call the most - each other, don't count towards our minutes.

Utilities vary by location, but whatever you can to do reduce this would be good as well.

I'm quite surprised that your rent is as low as it is. We lived in Socal in the 3BR rental and paid $1400/mo - and that was considered cheap.

OP, I think that you can reduce your budget by several thousand by making some hard choices. Quite honestly, it will involve a standard of living lower than what you currently enjoy - however high or low that currently is.

You need to sit down and hammer out a realistic budget. $90k/yr in loans is not realistic.

You need to sit down with your wife and really discuss whether you can afford to go through medical school - not just financially, but emotionally.

Contributors - all good ideas, but some of them won't work practically. But I think we all agree that a total loan of a half million is nuts.
 
Those are some serious expenses.

I am looking at starting school next year (hopefully one of my interviews pans out) with wife and 2 kids.

I have pushed off thinking too much about the future debt until several interview invities came in and it finally hit me...damn, I may have a chance of getting in somewhere, how in the heck am I going to pay for it all????!!!??!!?!?!!

Needless to say it is causing some stress and the cost of secondaries and plane tickets have only served as an awakening to the impending costs.

We have no debt and about a year's worth of OOS tuition in the bank.

But once I stop working that money will get burned through really quickly.

Anyway.

Cut the cable, no one needs it (especially the kids)and you save 1200 a year.

Get rid of one of the cars and get an older, cheap reliable honda or something. That could cut another 3 to 5k a year. Better yet ride a bike or the bus.

If your wife is at home with the kids, just get a pay as you go cell phone for emergencies only. That could save you another 1000 or so.

With 3 kids and little income you should be able to get on some state or federal programs, this would be difficult for me to do as I am not yet humble enough, but you will certainly be paying back into those programs once you make the big bucks so who cares.

Those of course are only modest savings, but over four or five years it would be tens of thousands of dollars, not including interest saved.
 
to the OP--you are digging a very deep hole for yourself. Your expenses are out of line, suggesting you and your wife don't understand how to live on a tight budget. When you are borrowing money, you need to tighten your belt somewhere. Perhaps cell phones are necessary in this day and age especially with children, but certainly not for $200/month.

For example, my wife and I have a $50/month family plan, and I got Skype In/Out and a $15/month minimal broadband plan that together are cheaper than ordinary phone service with unlimited long distance. I'm even contemplating ditching the plan altogether and going with prepaid. We buy fundamental foods--chicken, eggs, veggies, grains--and we minimize Starbucks, meals out, and ready-made junk. I started medical school debt free, we own our one car and I ride a bike to school. We don't have cable--in fact we don't have a TV--but we can watch tapes and DVDs on the computer. The library has plenty of movies for free.

I'm going to cut your $2K/month food and gas budget in half, drop the cable and 99% of restaurants and start frequenting more thrift shops for kids' clothes. I'm also going to have you sell one of your vehicles and go with a used Toyota for about 4-6 months' payments and start saving yourself another $500/month. Altogether it looks like you've got about $20K per annum in excessive expenditures. Don't worry--you'll make more than enough money to support your preferred lifestyle someday but now you gotta just bite the bullet. Best of luck and please don't take this personally but rather in the spirit of free advice offered on a free forum.
-Therapy Ball (who should be studying biochem dammit)
 
Paying off this debt is not going to be trivial. If your weighted interest rate is 7.5% (and it may well be higher; you've got a lot of private loans, I'm guessing) and your loan is extended over 30 years, your monthly payment is almost $4K. You will pay almost $900,000 in interest alone.

Let's say you become a surgeon, and your income is good, around $200,000. Monthly take-home after taxes will be in the neighborhood of $10,000. Can you afford a $4000 payment and still feed those kids? Sure. On the other hand, your student loans will eat up more than a third of your take-home pay. Ouch.

PS. Cell phones are a luxury. I don't have one. My husband doesn't have one. Somehow, we survive.
PPS. Your food bill is INSANE. I live in the SF Bay Area (very high cost of living) and my husband and I eat well on < $100/week. (We almost never eat out.) Unless your kids are teenage boys, you guys should be able to eat on $150/week.
 
I'm gonna come out w/ a lot in loans but I'll be a surgeon, and be able to pay it back comfortably in 10 yrs.

Just saw this and ... it flat out isn't true.

If you pay off $560,000 at 7.5% over 10 years, your monthly payment is around $6600. In my previous example, your monthly take home as a surgeon may be around $10-11,000, leaving you around $4000/month for living. Your current budget (which you consider to be tight, "living like a student") is $2735 + $2000 for food and gas = $4735. So basically, even as a surgeon, you likely won't be able to pay off your loans in 10 years and maintain your current lifestyle, let alone live a little higher on the hog (which, to be honest, we're all going to want to do, at least a little, when we FINALLY become attendings!).

Good luck to you.
 
If you make an appt with your financial aid office or a financial planner you can get a reality check - your finances may become an untenable burden to you. There are folks that have had to stop going to med school because of finances. My wife and I have one child just graduated from college (yes, we are super old - in our late 40's) and two others that will be in college at the same time that I am in medical school. Your main crunch will be when you will have to be starting to pay back your student loans while in residency and after doing some rough figuring, it looks as though your loan payments will be more than what you will earn - are you thinking of trying to borrow private money for residency. You repay $2 for every $1 you borrow.
I can really relate to your feelings about your children. It is the main reason that I am going to med school now rather than when I was younger. I taught for twenty years and my wife worked very little so the children would not have to go to childcare.
Cutting your budget is that only way I can see. There are lots of ideas online for more frugal/student-style living. Many of the posters have mentioned things that my wife and I use to keep our expenses down.
Good Luck!
 
If you make an appt with your financial aid office or a financial planner you can get a reality check - your finances may become an untenable burden to you. There are folks that have had to stop going to med school because of finances. My wife and I have one child just graduated from college (yes, we are super old - in our late 40's) and two others that will be in college at the same time that I am in medical school. Your main crunch will be when you will have to be starting to pay back your student loans while in residency and after doing some rough figuring, it looks as though your loan payments will be more than what you will earn - are you thinking of trying to borrow private money for residency. You repay $2 for every $1 you borrow.
I can really relate to your feelings about your children. It is the main reason that I am going to med school now rather than when I was younger. I taught for twenty years and my wife worked very little so the children would not have to go to childcare.
Cutting your budget is that only way I can see. There are lots of ideas online for more frugal/student-style living. Many of the posters have mentioned things that my wife and I use to keep our expenses down.
Good Luck!

Well, the extra 120k that we take out (above the normal amt) is in private loans. My pmt will be about 6-8k per mo for 10 yrs. The way I see it is that when I'm a surgeon I will make about 350k per year (in 10 yrs that's w/ inflation). W/ taxes taken out, ill still have about 18k per mo. take away the 8k from that & i still have 10k..

I do however, plan on specializing so that will increase the salary.
 
There may come a point in time where you will not be alowed to borrow the additional $30,000 per year. I would encourage you to figure out if and when that would hit. Lenders who have your private loans may have caps somewhere along the way to ensure they don't get stiffed later on (ask for the aggregate debt total which includes all debt and not just from that lender). The more debt you take on, the more of a risk you become to them. Do you have a co-signer lined up just in case? Not that I think it' a good idea to have someone in your financial life for the nest 20 years or so.
I would certainly be asking those questions now and not finding out that you're SOL in year 3.... I would also encourage you to fully understand how long they may be deferred as well. Some loans have a clause that basically states 4 years after you receive the check or upon receiving your degree, you're in repayment-- they don't care what else you have going on... that includes residency.
Finally, what happens if you ever have to drop out of school and do NOT have an MD degree. What can you do now and how much could you earn? Private loans do NOT care that you can't earn that much based on your skills.
From my side of the desk, the risk to you and your family is pretty great with what your plan is now. If you drop over dead, your wife will be responsible for any private loans you have (not fed) so I would encourage you to let her in on this if she doesn't know. Begin a good honest discussion as to how much risk she's willing to assume along the way. She may decide that it's in everyone's best interest to pare down on the living expense side and it would be unfair to her to not to have you be transparent about all of this. Let her have a voice in the decision of what to borrow and how to make it over the 4 plus years. It may be her decision to let a car go, pare down the food budget, cell phone etc... maybe find a stay at home job watching other peoples kids before or after school.
Finally, the idea that the FA office will come up with a bucket of money to keep you from crashing and burning isn't gonna happen. If you can't pay, you're dropping out and will be allowed to return when you can. I tend to think most students are convinced we would never allow that to happen because we'd lose money-- not true. If you can't pay for the service now why on earth would we add more on?
 
With regards to what the poster above me just said (don't want to quote their whole message) but that time is residency, isn't it? Can you take out loans for living expenses, etc while a resident? I didn't think so. Of course, you earn approx. 40k as a resident, so the OP will gain 40k but lose 90k in all of the extra loans he is getting, so I agree with everybody else that the OP needs to work up a reasonable budget and cut expenses NOW.

P.S. OP, your comment about people putting their children in daycare being horrible was out of line. I'm not really sure why I'm giving you advice (being one of those "horrible parents") but I'll take the high road here....

EDIT: Also to the last poster: The OP's wife won't be responsible for his debt unless she co-signed the loans. If the OP died, his estate WOULD be liable, and the debts would be repaid by any life insurance settlements, etc that the OPs estate would benefit from (making it sort of like the wife repaying it from her inheritance, assuming that she is his sole heir) but if the OP's estate has no assets, the debts don't transfer to his wife (unless she co-signed.) That's why it's, IHMO, a good idea to keep debts separate for spouses, but that's a topic for another discussion.
 
Well, the extra 120k that we take out (above the normal amt) is in private loans. My pmt will be about 6-8k per mo for 10 yrs. The way I see it is that when I'm a surgeon I will make about 350k per year (in 10 yrs that's w/ inflation). W/ taxes taken out, ill still have about 18k per mo. take away the 8k from that & i still have 10k..

I do however, plan on specializing so that will increase the salary.

Physician salaries don't typically increase with inflation. In fact, most physicians have seen their salaries either stagnant or actually DECREASE over the past 10 years. The average general surgeon does not make 350k and likely will not even 8-10 years from now. Also, I'm not sure if you mentioned it already, but what do plan to do during residency? Resident take home pay is only about $3000/month which wouldn't even cover your current cost of living let alone any private loans you may have to repay (staffords will be in deferrment, but I'm not sure how privates work). Will you take out even more loans (although I'm not certain that's even possible)?
 
What do plan to do during residency? Resident take home pay is only about $3000/month, which wouldn't even cover your current cost of living, let alone any private loans you may have to repay.

I'm wondering this same thing.

And let's not forget that your residency is going to be on the long side. You'll probably want to do an academic general surgery residency, to best position yourself for a competitive fellowship. Those tend to be seven years. Plus a two year fellowship. You're looking at nine long years during which time your expenses exceed your income, before even considering the fact that your private lenders are very likely to come knocking. How on earth are you guys going to survive?

I was worried about you before, but now, I think you're nuts.

PS. Out of curiosity, how old are you? I'm assuming you're in your late 20s/early 30s since you have three kids. By the time you finish training, you'll be dangerously behind in saving for retirement, it will be almost time to start paying for college and the realistic length of your post-training career may be 20 years or less. No one wants a 70 year old surgeon.
PPS. In my opinion, essentially missing nine years of your kids' lives for surgical training doesn't exactly qualify you for Parent of the Year either. Best not to throw stones.
 
I'm wondering this same thing.

And let's not forget that your residency is going to be on the long side. You'll probably want to do an academic general surgery residency, to best position yourself for a competitive fellowship. Those tend to be seven years. Plus a two year fellowship. You're looking at nine long years during which time your expenses exceed your income, before even considering the fact that your private lenders are very likely to come knocking. How on earth are you guys going to survive?

I was worried about you before, but now, I think you're nuts.

PS. Out of curiosity, how old are you? I'm assuming you're in your late 20s/early 30s since you have three kids. By the time you finish training, you'll be dangerously behind in saving for retirement, it will be almost time to start paying for college and the realistic length of your post-training career may be 20 years or less. No one wants a 70 year old surgeon.
PPS. In my opinion, essentially missing nine years of your kids' lives for surgical training doesn't exactly qualify you for Parent of the Year either. Best not to throw stones.

I'm 24 & a 2nd year medical student. I'm a better parent than you'll ever be. You are pathetic. Have you guys ever heard of moonlighting?? EVERYONE THAT HAS HALF OF A BRAIN KNOWS THAT YOU HAVE TO MOONLIGHT TO SUPPORT A FAMILY!! Hey, from now on, ONLY COMMENT IF YOU HAVE CHILDREN & ARE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL & WERENT BORN WITH A SILVER SPOON IN YOUR MOUTH.
 
This will be the last warning regarding this thread. Please keep the responses civil or the thread will be closed.
 
Please keep the responses civil or the thread will be closed.

Fair enough. I apologize for my part in bringing down the tone of this thread.

OP, good luck to you. I'm afraid you have a difficult road ahead.
 
please consider closing it now. the thread's degeneration is inevitable
 
please consider closing it now. the thread's degeneration is inevitable

YAYADUDE, you have no idea of the road for which i'm going to take. KEEP IT TO YOURSELF
 
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