I have a medical license and I would like to practice. The biggest problem I face is that I am not board eligible as I did not finish residency. Hence, recruiters are not able to find me a job in "non-rural" areas. Can someone tell me how to go about finding a job that is not too rural? Also, can I get board certified as a general practitioner? Has anyone done this?
How to get a job as a general practitioner and get board certified?
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Board certified in general practice? There is no American Board of General Practitioners.
The whole purpose and reason for specialty boards is because medicine grew at such a rate that it was felt that the "one size fits all" - i.e., general practitioner - was an unsustainable and inferior paradigm.
As you state you did not finish residency, you are not fully trained. That is non-negotiable. As such, why would some place not desperate (such as a non-rural opportunity) take you over someone who HAS completed a residency, and can show, by taking and passing a board examination series, that they have a minimal level of competence? Would YOU prefer to have you as a doctor, or someone who has been trained to a higher standard? What about your mother, or your kids? Would you send them to someone that didn't finish?
What is a cake like that is 2/3 done? Would you eat it? What is a baby like born at 24 weeks? Barely alive - BARELY. Would you live in a house 2/3 done? What if the incomplete 1/3 is the plumbing (so no shower or toilet) or the 1/3 is the roof?
The whole purpose and reason for specialty boards is because medicine grew at such a rate that it was felt that the "one size fits all" - i.e., general practitioner - was an unsustainable and inferior paradigm.
As you state you did not finish residency, you are not fully trained. That is non-negotiable. As such, why would some place not desperate (such as a non-rural opportunity) take you over someone who HAS completed a residency, and can show, by taking and passing a board examination series, that they have a minimal level of competence? Would YOU prefer to have you as a doctor, or someone who has been trained to a higher standard? What about your mother, or your kids? Would you send them to someone that didn't finish?
What is a cake like that is 2/3 done? Would you eat it? What is a baby like born at 24 weeks? Barely alive - BARELY. Would you live in a house 2/3 done? What if the incomplete 1/3 is the plumbing (so no shower or toilet) or the 1/3 is the roof?
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Agree with Apollyon. If you are not board eligible, you cannot become board certified. And there is no such thing as a board for general practitioners. How much did you complete of residency, and in what specialty? Can you go back and finish? If so, that is your best option by far. I assume you have a *permanent* license, and finished at least one PGY year?
The days of the General Practitioner are long gone, so finding a position as a general practitioner will be exceedingly difficult. Most "GPs" are the guys who are in or very near retirement who were grandfathered in to allow them to continue to have privileges. Furthermore, finding any job that will hire you long term without completion of residency or board eligibility will be difficult at best, especially in urban areas. There may be some rural locations that need a doctor badly enough someone not fully trained, but given that 1. most hospitals now require BE/BC status to be credentialled, 2. most practices require a doctor to be BE/BC at some point to become a "partner", if in a true PP setting, and 3. insurance companies and other payors are trending towards requiring BE/BC to be considered "in-network", you may find temporary positions are what you end up with since you can't meet their requirements once you are reapplying for privileges.
Have you tried looking for a position with a stand-alone urgent care center or something similar (wound care physician, NH physician, etc.)? These may not really get you anywhere long-term, career-wise, but may be more "urban" and in a better location, and allow you to practice some medicine.
The days of the General Practitioner are long gone, so finding a position as a general practitioner will be exceedingly difficult. Most "GPs" are the guys who are in or very near retirement who were grandfathered in to allow them to continue to have privileges. Furthermore, finding any job that will hire you long term without completion of residency or board eligibility will be difficult at best, especially in urban areas. There may be some rural locations that need a doctor badly enough someone not fully trained, but given that 1. most hospitals now require BE/BC status to be credentialled, 2. most practices require a doctor to be BE/BC at some point to become a "partner", if in a true PP setting, and 3. insurance companies and other payors are trending towards requiring BE/BC to be considered "in-network", you may find temporary positions are what you end up with since you can't meet their requirements once you are reapplying for privileges.
Have you tried looking for a position with a stand-alone urgent care center or something similar (wound care physician, NH physician, etc.)? These may not really get you anywhere long-term, career-wise, but may be more "urban" and in a better location, and allow you to practice some medicine.
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By definition if you're not board eligible (i.e. you can't sit for the boards), you can't become board certified.
You can take your chance at hanging up a shingle and practicing as a GP but many insurance companies won't cover your fees anymore.
You can take your chance at hanging up a shingle and practicing as a GP but many insurance companies won't cover your fees anymore.
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As a GP the only real job available is opening your own practice, taking cash only. You will also need to be sure to identify yourself as a general practitioner and not as a specialist. Define your practice by saying you focus on or treat only XYZ. As your practice grows you could even hire on PAs.
I would personally prefer to see a non-board elgible general practitioner over a mid level any day.
I would personally prefer to see a non-board elgible general practitioner over a mid level any day.
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You need to find a federal job with the Indian Health Service or the federal prison system.
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Agree with everyone above. There are other avenues to explore though (I am not advocating all as being on the ethical high-ground)
1. Get training in cosmetics and go into medical spa stuff (and know that you aren't anywhere near a plastic surgeon)
2. Get training in CAM stuff and go into practice (knowing that you'll be scamming a large number of patients to varying degrees)
3. Become a weed doctor.
4. Get into CAM and be a weed doctor
http://www.pressherald.com/news/physician-finds-niche-dispensing-marijuana_2010-12-12.html
http://www.drsulak.com/practice/Practitioners/dustin/dustin.html
5. If you've completed a PGY1 and have a license, look at a less competitive residency that starts at PGY2 or something along that line. The ones you should look at the closest are preventive and occupational medicine (which actually usually start with an MPH year). To my knowledge, neither is overly competitive and both lead you to a usable board certification. You can also do a fellowship in toxicology from either if that is of any interest.
1. Get training in cosmetics and go into medical spa stuff (and know that you aren't anywhere near a plastic surgeon)
2. Get training in CAM stuff and go into practice (knowing that you'll be scamming a large number of patients to varying degrees)
3. Become a weed doctor.
4. Get into CAM and be a weed doctor
http://www.pressherald.com/news/physician-finds-niche-dispensing-marijuana_2010-12-12.html
http://www.drsulak.com/practice/Practitioners/dustin/dustin.html
5. If you've completed a PGY1 and have a license, look at a less competitive residency that starts at PGY2 or something along that line. The ones you should look at the closest are preventive and occupational medicine (which actually usually start with an MPH year). To my knowledge, neither is overly competitive and both lead you to a usable board certification. You can also do a fellowship in toxicology from either if that is of any interest.
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Or join military. The OP could be a GMO assuming that he qualifies for service.**
**The GMO system is antiquated and dangerous, but I'm just trying to present all avenues available to the OP.
I know of a couple of urban psychiatric hospitals which have licensed but not boarded physicians (some moonlighting medicine residents, some GPs). They basically keep an eye on medically stable patients from a general medicine standpoint.
Wikipedia hints at board certification for GP-quote- "Board certification of general practitioners is different from the board certification of family physicians. Testing for the American Board of Family Practice involves a written exam. Testing for the American Board of General Practice involves a written exam as well as an oral exam as well as a practical exam with a clinical skills evaluation." I tried emailing them, but no reply yet.
Also, I am looking for a job that will help me get back into residency as I feel there aren't any prospects for me, without board certification. I have completed 3 years of residency training and hence eligible for a medical license anywhere. However, this also means that finding residencies that will accept me is extremely hard. Most won't take me as they don't have funding to take me on.
So, what is my best strategy?
Also, I am looking for a job that will help me get back into residency as I feel there aren't any prospects for me, without board certification. I have completed 3 years of residency training and hence eligible for a medical license anywhere. However, this also means that finding residencies that will accept me is extremely hard. Most won't take me as they don't have funding to take me on.
So, what is my best strategy?
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Agree with gutonc. Their website is sketchy: "it is the opinion" of the members that they "should be recognized" as a board. Never says they ARE recognized as a board and does not discuss the details leading to certification. The vagueness and lack of specific information is a bad sign. Go to *real* board websites and check out the differences.
Sounds like they get you to pay for the "exams" and probably give you a certificate, but it is not a board recognized by the ABMS; thus not likely to be recognized by organizations such as hospitals, insurers and others.
Sounds like they get you to pay for the "exams" and probably give you a certificate, but it is not a board recognized by the ABMS; thus not likely to be recognized by organizations such as hospitals, insurers and others.
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Knocked all the DO boards in less then 10 words
But to the OP, I did a rotation in a correctional facility for a month and I have to admit it would be a pretty sweet gig. no nights or weekends, all federal days off, no dealing with insurance.
Knocked all the DO boards in less then 10 words
But to the OP, I did a rotation in a correctional facility for a month and I have to admit it would be a pretty sweet gig. no nights or weekends, all federal days off, no dealing with insurance.
http://medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/memag/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=124038
Really interesting article. Seems like this American Board of General Practice is accepted by some insurance co's and hospitals.
And, there's no reason it shouldnt be.
We let nurses with a 2 year masters degree practice primary care independently, but we dont let someone with a 4 year MD, an internship, and a medical licence to do general practice? What a stupid system.
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Do you realize that the article you linked is almost 12 years old? Last century?
Yeah, ... I guess it's interesting from a historical perspective
Still, I think its a double standard to credential nurse practitioners, and not physician GPs. Theres gotta be at least a dozen threads on the SDN right now with posts from people who could already qualify as a GP, asking for advice on how to resuscitate their career, or get out of some poor choice of a residency/specialty..... We make it difficult for GPs to get a job, but we let NPs do whatever they like.
I'll take a GP over an NP any day.
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Midlevels - NPs, PAs, midwives, CRNAs - in the vast, vast majority of cases take the "chip shots" - the simple cases. Even if we, as physicians, take the simple cases, we still can handle it if it turns out beyond the first blush to not be simple at all. Those cases, when encountered by the midlevels, kick those upstairs to us. The less-than-fully trained GP, in this day and age, just doesn't know enough. The GP vs NP is a battle fraught with peril.
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What is a cake like that is 2/3 done? Would you eat it? QUOTE]
I'd probably give it a taste, especially if it was chocolate cake
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I don't think too many of us entered medicine to do this. Obviously society needs this job to be done, but few of us would consider it a desireable position.
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I beg to differ. Midlevels are preferable to some "docs"
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Please keep posts civil. Thank you.
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As a non BE GP, in addition to cash, you can take take some insurances like medicare, medicaid (in clinic only) and Blue cross blue shield at least if not a few more.
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I'm in your boat. non BE GP here.
this may help direct you. http://www.abgpscam.com/abgp
what specialty did you do your 3 years in. Are you at least board eligible?
You can start up your own home visiting physician company (which is what i did) or you can open up a clinic. check mdjobsite.com and locumtenens.com. you can often find jobs there, some even telemedicine that are easy to do, but may not pay as much as you may like.
The so called American Board of General Practice is a SCAM. There is no "board". Don't spend years and thousands of dollars each year in this phony board scam. Go to these following web sites for the facts. http://www.aagpscam.com , http://www.acgmscam.com , and http://www.abgpscam.com .
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Many of the people on this forum do not support the idea of a board certified GP. Its kind of funny but the people that support the idea of the BC GP are the ones who never made it through residency. Once you go through the hell of residency you kind of "join the dark side" in that you have a vested interest in limiting the number of practicing physicians. That and a lot of the BC docs adopt an attitude of " well I had to go through it so you should too" . Residency is the final horrible hoop to jump through on your way to "living the dream". It really limits the number of practicing docs. The idea of the evolution of BC due to "rapid expansion of medical knowledge" is a joke. Residency is a just a way to control the doc market, and people have figured out a way to bypass it ie PA, and DNP. I dont believe in residency or BC/BE, but now that I have "paid my dues", I will say that I only want BC BE physicians to have the ability to practice. The difference is though, Im not hiding behind some joke of an excuse that BC BE physicians are "better" and I will frankly admit, I dont want non BC BE physicians practicing because Residency has made me completely bitter and jaded, and I just want to make as much money as possible, and work as little as possible. Other "attendings" on this forum might defend BC BE for other reasons but I suspect they are all full of it, and pretty much hold the same belief as I do.......they just dont have the insight or capacity to admit it, possibly because medical education and residency drive out any ability to have self reflection, introspection or philosophical debate......
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You honestly think that the push towards BE/BC is just because of professional jealousy/insecurity, and not because there's a realization that someone who completed only an internship is not, perhaps, safe to practice unsupervised?
I have the suspicion that you're saying what you did because you have no idea of what a steep learning curve there is during your first year as an attending. I finished a full residency, passed my board exam, but every day of these first few months as an attending have been challenging and taxing. Part of it is working in a severely underserved area, but part of it is just the challenges of being the final one responsible. There is no way that I could do this current job after completing just a PGY-1, or even a PGY-2. Back in the1950s, yes, you could work as a GP after just a year of residency. But this isn't the 1950s....medicine is so completely different, more complex, and more litigious.
As Rumsfeld said, "[T]here are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know."
With 1 year of residency, there are still too many things that you don't know you're ignorant on. As you advance, that third category shrinks, and more and more, you encount stuff that you know you're knowledgeable on and stuff that you know you're ignorant of, but you'll make fewer mistakes because you have enough knowledge to get extra help on it (order an extra test or consult a specialist)
There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know."
With 1 year of residency, there are still too many things that you don't know you're ignorant on. As you advance, that third category shrinks, and more and more, you encount stuff that you know you're knowledgeable on and stuff that you know you're ignorant of, but you'll make fewer mistakes because you have enough knowledge to get extra help on it (order an extra test or consult a specialist)
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There are some urgent care and walk in clinics that will take you with 2 years of residency. Income is decent. Also the new wave of doc-in-a-box at some pharmacies, soon walmarts, you would be eligible for. Currently these places will hire NPN's but the preference would be MD.
I
I am in your same situation. Could you tell me how you found how to get on insurance rosters? I have an unrestricted license and would like to open my clinic.
I am in your same situation. Could you tell me how you found how to get on insurance rosters? I have an unrestricted license and would like to open my clinic.
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Even though this an old post - there are multiple posts of similar content floating around currently, so I decided to post a general answer here.
I work in part for Indian Health Services and they wanted proof that I was board certified, but I am also relatively close to desirable cities. Maybe if you go to alaska, or the midwest they will be less picky.
In urgent care it is now a selling/advertising point (at least here) to say "ALL of our physicians are board certified!" We have about four different chains of U.C., and all advertise this.
How about Federally Qualified Health Centers - do they required boards? They are usually urban based.
What about working for an insurance company?
What about Wound Care/home visits?
I work in part for Indian Health Services and they wanted proof that I was board certified, but I am also relatively close to desirable cities. Maybe if you go to alaska, or the midwest they will be less picky.
In urgent care it is now a selling/advertising point (at least here) to say "ALL of our physicians are board certified!" We have about four different chains of U.C., and all advertise this.
How about Federally Qualified Health Centers - do they required boards? They are usually urban based.
What about working for an insurance company?
What about Wound Care/home visits?
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Are DOs not ABMS certified?Knocked all the DO boards in less then 10 words
But to the OP, I did a rotation in a correctional facility for a month and I have to admit it would be a pretty sweet gig. no nights or weekends, all federal days off, no dealing with insurance.
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The ones who trained in ACGME programs can be. There's an AOA IM board as well that's as legit as ABMS. Toohot got his panties twisted just to be argumentative.
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That's what I thought. He completely missed the point. The point was there are scam certification boards that most likely aren't accepted by hospitals when it comes to credentialing. You never said the AOA certification boards were.
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My FQHC requires that you be board certified - even board eligible is not sufficient. We're located in a fairly urban area. Not all FQHCs require this, but some do.
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My FQHC requries board certification and it is located in a rural area
I am very sorry to revive old thread, but it is very relevant to my current situation. I was wondering if there is anyway one can become general practitioner and then become a hospitalist in undesirable state such as Louisiana or North Dakotas?
I am turning 35 and husband wants children at this stage. We are comfortable with reduction in income if possible to practice independently with 1 year of post graduate training in Psychiatry. I think hospitalist job will suit me as I think better along those lines.
I am turning 35 and husband wants children at this stage. We are comfortable with reduction in income if possible to practice independently with 1 year of post graduate training in Psychiatry. I think hospitalist job will suit me as I think better along those lines.
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Well, that's one way to insult about 5.7 million people.
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Wait...are you saying that you think you can get a job as a hospitalist after a PGY1 Psych year?
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Estimated combined populations of the 'undesirable' locations mentioned.
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I assume because the population of Louisiana approaches 5 million and the population of NoDak is around 800K.
Math bro.
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Okay.
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Teh Bayou is crying....
Go work in a federal prison system with having 1-2 years of training under your belt. Easy cash.
Go work in a federal prison system with having 1-2 years of training under your belt. Easy cash.
Wait...are you saying that you think you can get a job as a hospitalist after a PGY1 Psych year?
Maybe I was unclear on the hospitalist portion, but I believe I encountered a person in interview trail who was working as a general practitioner as his state board gave credit for 12 months of consistent PGY1 service to grant license to him. It included 6 months of Medicine, Neurology, and ER combined, then 6 months of Psychiatry. He was reapplying for PGY2 position as his wife was in another state. Then I saw earlirer in this thread abot places such as Alaska allowing GP to become part of hospital team in ER or general floor, such as Nome Alaska, unless I am mistaken.
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I'm going to ask you some question which may seem impertinent .
1) Is there a reason you can't have children and complete your training in Psychiatry? I'm not sure I understand the need to quit after 1 year just because your "husband wants children" (I purposely did not ask whether YOU want children). Psychiatry is pretty family friendly.
2) You've told us before in earlier threads that you are a foreign born, foreign medical school trained, non-native English speaker, with a remote med school graduation date who matched into a Psychiatry program in Louisiana that's on ACGME probation. Thats somewhat of an achievement. Are you really willing to "throw that away"? It doesn't sound like you had a lot of options open to you. That will only get worse if you leave after a year.
The clinical jobs that don't require at least Board eligibility are few and far between these days and its only going to get worse. What will you do when you find that you are umemployable as a physician because you didn't complete a residency? I can tell you that several of the hospitals where I am on staff REQUIRE board certification by renewal of staff privileges (i.e., only BE required at time of initial application).
My husband is the primary breadwinner and we have been putting off our desire for children ever since I came to the country. We worked minial jobs while I studied steps and now we are both nearing 40 very closely. I don't know if I can manage both pregnancy, raising family and residency at the same time. I am comfortable with less income as a GP.
But I do see your point regarding importance of bored eligibility in the eyes of practicing successful manner in this country amongst hospital administration privileges.
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Its good to recognize that completing residency and having children is difficult. Perhaps it is too difficult for you, but people do it every day. It would be a shame that you've come this far, working "minial" (sic) jobs just to see you obtain a match position and then throw it away. You will not get another chance. Besides, how do you know if you can't manage it unless you've tried?
Not having hospital privileges is just the start of it. Many insurance companies will not credential you without being board eligible. Malpractice providers won't want to cover you etc. I think you're making a big mistake. Its not just about having "less income" but rather having NO income from you and having NO job when you are ready to return to medicine. The SDN forums are rife with stories about FMGs (mostly) who have not worked in medicine for years/took time off to raise children and then realized they could not get back in - either to residency or clinical practice. Medicine is not forgiving in these situations.
Finally, what makes you think you would be comfortable practicing MEDICINE with only 1 year of PSYCHIATRY training?
I'm sure some of the Psychiatry residents/attendings here can comment on having children during residency.
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This makes more sense. You clearly don't understand either of the issues involved.
As an I/FMG, you will need 2-3 years of training to get a license in virtually every state (Exceptions are WI, GA for some IMGs and Puerto Rico). You'll notice that AK, LA, ND and the other 45 states aren't on that list. So you need at least 2 years of residency to get your license.
The second issue is getting hired as a hospitalist, which you have absolutely no training for (6 months of IM as an intern mostly qualifies you to finish another 6 months as an intern). That's just not happening.
Finish your residency. Have kids. Move on.
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