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You couldn't pay me enough to move back to LA
How much can I make in Los Angeles?
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That's handy; because they can't pay you enough to live there.
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I'm not sure the attraction people have for LA. I lived there for 2 years, and while I didn't hate it, I certainly wouldn't move back there. Taxes, crime, traffic, and crumbling infrastructure all make it difficult to live. The average "small" home starts at around $800,000 in anywhere decent to live usually for under 2000 sqft. In Vegas that gets me well over 4000-5000 sq ft, and in Texas it would buy you a mini-mansion on a nice plot of land. Add the 13% top income tax bracket, and the relatively low pay and it seems crazy to live there.
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I don't mind living here but I'm not overthetop in love with it. Frankly, I'd probably love it more if I worked less, but there's the vicious cycle... I've managed to find a cheap apartment (cheaper than I would pay in any of the other major cities I've interviewed in - Portland, Nyc, Austin, Philadelphia, Chicago) here in an iffy neighborhood nestled between good neighborhoods, so I'm just waiting for my fellow gentrifiers to roll in.
Real estate is absurd. This is in an established "nice" but not "fancy" neighborhood:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/20749166_zpid super cute and under priced for that neighborhood. Pains me to get excited over any non-fixer upper under $800K, we also glanced at
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/20851757_zpid but wayyy too much work. And while the neighborhood is actively improving, there's still more gang activity than most of us are comfortable with.
I'm not on the family raising path, but I can't imagine that would be easy, cheap, or all that fun here. Santa Monica is 12 miles away. The 12 longest miles you can imagine, I basically only go when someone from out of town guilts me in to it 4-5 times a year.
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Real estate is absurd. This is in an established "nice" but not "fancy" neighborhood:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/20749166_zpid super cute and under priced for that neighborhood. Pains me to get excited over any non-fixer upper under $800K, we also glanced at
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/20851757_zpid but wayyy too much work. And while the neighborhood is actively improving, there's still more gang activity than most of us are comfortable with.
I'm not on the family raising path, but I can't imagine that would be easy, cheap, or all that fun here. Santa Monica is 12 miles away. The 12 longest miles you can imagine, I basically only go when someone from out of town guilts me in to it 4-5 times a year.
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I grew up in the midwest, but I spent a big portion of my life in the Los Angeles area before leaving for medical school.
I love LA. I can't think of a better city to live in. That being said, it might not be for everyone. Yes, the traffic is brutal. But there's sunshine 365 days in the year (when it penetrates through the smog
). You can hit the slopes and the waves in the same day. Contrary to the general idea that everyone in LA is a stuck up blown up barbie doll, people in the city are pretty easy going. Like any big city, there are pockets of crime, but it's nowhere as bad as the city where I grew up in.
I know a small handful of EM physicians in southern california. It's true, they make less. Many of the ones in academics do pick up shifts in the community to supplement their income (on top of their other research/teaching commitments). But they are also different people with different priorities. They don't care about having an affordable huge ranch in Texas, with a shooting range in the back, working 8 shifts a month for 350K. These people will gladly pay state income tax, live in a smaller apartment, and work some extra shifts a month if it means they can bike on the PCH, camp in Joshua Tree, and eat world class Asian food in Koreatown. They are all extremely happy in the city and don't want to ever leave. To each his/her own.
Also, Los Angeles County is huge. As someone already stated, Lancaster (more desert country) pays more, and they see some great pathology up there. Again, desert life may not be for everyone, but it's only about 45 minutes to 1 hour outside of the city (barring no traffic which I agree is rare). Also, I've been told that the Inland Empire (Riverside and San Bernardino counties) which is considered part of the "greater LA area" has better paying jobs as well. Although I'm not sure, I would assume that Palm Springs also pays well, although it's pretty far out of the city.
An "attending house" and an "attending car" is probably a lot smaller and more likely to be a hybrid than in other places. So what? Yes cost of living is higher in LA, but I still think people can live very comfortably on an attending salary, albeit with less going into savings/retirement every month. Some people want to be by the ocean, or close to family, etc. Many of the people who came from out of state and trained in the area ended up staying and getting jobs, despite getting lucrative offers in other parts of the country. Perhaps LA is a tougher city for those with very high expenses (kids, stay at home partner etc) but for others it's an ideal place.
Instead of scratching your heads wondering why all these stupid people want to practice in LA, maybe you should give them the benefit of the doubt. I think they are on to something
I love LA. I can't think of a better city to live in. That being said, it might not be for everyone. Yes, the traffic is brutal. But there's sunshine 365 days in the year (when it penetrates through the smog
). You can hit the slopes and the waves in the same day. Contrary to the general idea that everyone in LA is a stuck up blown up barbie doll, people in the city are pretty easy going. Like any big city, there are pockets of crime, but it's nowhere as bad as the city where I grew up in.I know a small handful of EM physicians in southern california. It's true, they make less. Many of the ones in academics do pick up shifts in the community to supplement their income (on top of their other research/teaching commitments). But they are also different people with different priorities. They don't care about having an affordable huge ranch in Texas, with a shooting range in the back, working 8 shifts a month for 350K. These people will gladly pay state income tax, live in a smaller apartment, and work some extra shifts a month if it means they can bike on the PCH, camp in Joshua Tree, and eat world class Asian food in Koreatown. They are all extremely happy in the city and don't want to ever leave. To each his/her own.
Also, Los Angeles County is huge. As someone already stated, Lancaster (more desert country) pays more, and they see some great pathology up there. Again, desert life may not be for everyone, but it's only about 45 minutes to 1 hour outside of the city (barring no traffic which I agree is rare). Also, I've been told that the Inland Empire (Riverside and San Bernardino counties) which is considered part of the "greater LA area" has better paying jobs as well. Although I'm not sure, I would assume that Palm Springs also pays well, although it's pretty far out of the city.
An "attending house" and an "attending car" is probably a lot smaller and more likely to be a hybrid than in other places. So what? Yes cost of living is higher in LA, but I still think people can live very comfortably on an attending salary, albeit with less going into savings/retirement every month. Some people want to be by the ocean, or close to family, etc. Many of the people who came from out of state and trained in the area ended up staying and getting jobs, despite getting lucrative offers in other parts of the country. Perhaps LA is a tougher city for those with very high expenses (kids, stay at home partner etc) but for others it's an ideal place.
Instead of scratching your heads wondering why all these stupid people want to practice in LA, maybe you should give them the benefit of the doubt. I think they are on to something
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Instead of scratching your heads wondering why all these stupid people want to practice in LA, maybe you should give them the benefit of the doubt. I think they are on to something
This might be an appropriate time to point out that I actually lived in LA (Orange County actually) for a month as a resident. A month isn't a year, but it's enough time to show I'm not just making crap up.
I suppose some people do see something in LA that I'm missing, but it's beyond me what they're trading for a:
Longer period of time to financial independence (read- years longer you have to work before retiring)
Smaller house
Less Property
Crummier vacations
Crappier car
(those first five are all a result of the lower pay, higher taxes, and higher cost of living)
More crime
More smog
More traffic
Higher cost of disability insurance
I mean, having to shovel the driveway a few times a year seems a paltry trade. Maybe if you're a surfer or something, I dunno.
And this idea that you can hit the beach and the slopes in the same day apparently comes from someone who hasn't actually driven from the slopes to the beach during the day. Every time I'm there, that's a four hour trip during the afternoon. So let's assume you're in the lift line at 9 am. You ski until one, then jump in the car. Yay, you can take a walk on the beach just before the sun goes down. I guess I'd rather stay and ski the rest of the afternoon.
Where I live there are days when you can snow ski, ice climb, rock climb, mountain bike, road bike, and water ski (okay, with a wet suit) in the same day. All of the activities but the water skiing can be done within 5 miles of each other.
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I'm happy to get on a plane, be at LAX in 45 minutes, and drive to the beach in 30 minutes.
For the $30K per year (or more) I save in taxes, I could take a 2 week vacation in LA every other month and stay at a great hotel on or near the beach. I'd have money left over too.
For the $30K per year (or more) I save in taxes, I could take a 2 week vacation in LA every other month and stay at a great hotel on or near the beach. I'd have money left over too.
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I flew out of LAX once, and I hope to never do it again. Worst airport experience of my life (even with TSA Pre Check). LA isn't my thing, though, so I don't see why I'd have to do it again. I feel fortunate that I don't much care for large cities and prefer the little ones. I'll take peace, quiet, space, no traffic, and higher pay.
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there are 2 reasons to live in LA:
1. Weather.
2. friends and family they don't want to leave behind.
I've done the surf/ski in a day thing. It's pretty fun and feels great doing it. But it's more of a novelty than anything else.
Pay is worse than other parts of the country and not financially worth it.
1. Weather.
2. friends and family they don't want to leave behind.
I've done the surf/ski in a day thing. It's pretty fun and feels great doing it. But it's more of a novelty than anything else.
Pay is worse than other parts of the country and not financially worth it.
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I'll agree with you that everything you say is true here, with the exception of one: crime. I would venture to say that the EM physicians who are probably making more salary-wise in some other cities (Detroit, St. Louis, Memphis, Atlanta, Phoenix) likely have an appreciable amount of crime in their cities. Don't get me wrong, there are parts of LA that I simply avoid at all costs, but I could name so many neighborhoods that are extremely safe. EM physicians aren't living in high crime areas, they are living in safe, middle class communities in LA. I hardly think it's a trade off because you can live in so many safe areas in the city.
Some of the things on your list really is in the eye of the beholder. I would take a smaller home in a vibrant community with tons of stuff to do than live in an affordable mansion in a less happening community. Some people value lots of space and a quiet neighborhood with peace and quiet and the whole white picket fence. Others want museums, arts, great food options, etc. The value one assigns to these things depends on the individual, and everyone is different.
It's not just that. Growing up in the midwest, there was a gloominess to life there. Much of the year was overcast. Much of the time I wanted to do things, but was limited by thunderstorms, or unbearable summer heat. Los Angelinos are limited by traffic, the constant threat of earthquakes etc. You pick your poison.
I think you took my comment too literally. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it's practical, I recognize that. I was merely illustrating that LA is very uniquely geographically located for people who have interests in a lot of outdoor activities. I will say though, you can make it from Big Bear to Santa Monica in 2.5 hours ( you would need better than ideal traffic conditions, but it can be done).
Let me be clear. I don't think living in LA is the best financial decision you can make. There are definitely better options from an exclusively financial standpoint. Dollars and cents matter and I would never fault anyone from passing on taking a job in LA in the interest of financial responsibility. But, the city does offer a lot for people who want it and are willing to pay for it. And, after you pay for it, you won't be living like sultan, and you will be working harder, but I still think you can live a relatively comfortable life.
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Best way to surf/snowboard in one day in SoCal is to surf Trestles or Newport at dawn (have to get there early otherwise it's blown out except in autumn) and hit the night session at Mtn High.
Lived near LA for four years.. if California had a reasonable economic climate it would be a great place to live. But for many reasons, it is not the best choice unless you are just tied to the area.
I live in place with a low overall tax rate, next to a 55sq mile lake, and have excellent motorcycling/waterskiing/kayak/hiking/camping/mtnbiking/boating/fishing/hunting essentially in my backyard, if not 10 min from home. 100 acres of public land next to my front yard. 20 min drive on increadibly fun roads (banked corners, no traffic, roundabouts, scenery, etc) to a 300k city w/ a symphony, soccer, baseball etc, lots of fine restaurants, cool downtown scene, tons of craft breweries, festivals, etc. Can drive to the airport and take a direct flight to Costa Rica to surf.. to be perfectly honest I prefer the weather here (4 seasons, mild winter, lots of sun) to the weather in SoCal, although San Clemente certainly has fine weather and would be a great place to retire..
Only point being, a lot of people in LA particularly use the amenities of the city to explain their living there, to the point that they are dismissive of other areas of the country. The fact is that in the modern era, you can have most of these luxuries easily outside of LA/NYC/SF, along with having a lifestyle that would probably never be possible for an ER doc living in these cities.
Lived near LA for four years.. if California had a reasonable economic climate it would be a great place to live. But for many reasons, it is not the best choice unless you are just tied to the area.
I live in place with a low overall tax rate, next to a 55sq mile lake, and have excellent motorcycling/waterskiing/kayak/hiking/camping/mtnbiking/boating/fishing/hunting essentially in my backyard, if not 10 min from home. 100 acres of public land next to my front yard. 20 min drive on increadibly fun roads (banked corners, no traffic, roundabouts, scenery, etc) to a 300k city w/ a symphony, soccer, baseball etc, lots of fine restaurants, cool downtown scene, tons of craft breweries, festivals, etc. Can drive to the airport and take a direct flight to Costa Rica to surf.. to be perfectly honest I prefer the weather here (4 seasons, mild winter, lots of sun) to the weather in SoCal, although San Clemente certainly has fine weather and would be a great place to retire..
Only point being, a lot of people in LA particularly use the amenities of the city to explain their living there, to the point that they are dismissive of other areas of the country. The fact is that in the modern era, you can have most of these luxuries easily outside of LA/NYC/SF, along with having a lifestyle that would probably never be possible for an ER doc living in these cities.
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Wherever you are living sounds like what I want. Awesome.
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This is why I will never live in LA, NYC, Chicago, etc.
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I could have a middle class lifestyle in LA. In most other parts of the country I can live like the top 1%.
D
deleted109597
You do know that those kind of places exist outside of LA, right?
Nobody is saying that nobody should live in LA (except the people that actually want to live there, because they want the rest to leave). They're giving the reasons they don't want to live in LA. Or NYC. But that doesn't mean they don't want to live in SLC. Or Texas. Everyone has preferences, and if we were all the same, restaurants would really suck.
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How's the pay at UCLA or USC for academic attendings?
And what about Stanford and UCSF in the Bay Area?
Anyone know ?
And what about Stanford and UCSF in the Bay Area?
Anyone know ?
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ROFL
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Haha!
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Why should they have to pay you when you get to live in the Bay Area?
I don't know, but I would bet it is publicly available for the public institutions. I know the website for my state and the state I did residency in, but don't know the California ones. They probably start about $200K.
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From San Diego - a much better city in my opinion but almost equally as expensive to live in and basically the same job rate as LA (-$120/hr). Personally, I work 12 12's month in Texas making $275/hr (plus $50k sign on bonus) and spend the other half of the month living in San Diego. Definitely works out financially for me. I also am not married, nor do I have kids. Obviously splitting where you live half the month isn't for everyone.
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Just make sure you spend 6 months and 1 day in Texas. Document your time and stays in Texas. If you don't, Big Brother will come trying to get his due.
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Why should they have to pay you when you get to live in the Bay Area?
I don't know, but I would bet it is publicly available for the public institutions. I know the website for my state and the state I did residency in, but don't know the California ones. They probably start about $200K.
I looked up a few salaries from the names on their faculty websites and while the "big names" in EM make a little more, the $200k quote is spot on.
What surprises me though is that this is what community LA docs are making as well. In essence, the academic gig would probably be better all things considered if the pay is equal.
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you're referring to state income tax?
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At least then you could qualify for PSLF.
Good discussion. Here is our story. We moved to LA about a year ago for my spouse's job with Kaiser and I regret it very much. I can't get over the incredibly high cost of living here and it's killing me. I stay at home with the kids. I'm the money conscious one who does our budget and my spouse is clueless about money. He thinks LA is "cool". Give me a break. Judge for yourself how cool it is and decide if you want to move here after you hear what we are paying. We have two kids. Annual salary is about 240k. Take home is about 13k a month. The worst part about it, besides the traffic, smog, congestion, etc etc etc, is the price of homes. I never thought we would be in a position at this point in his career that we can't afford a home. A fricking doctor and we can't afford to buy a house! We rent a 1400 square foot house in Glendale for $3600 a month. Houses around us are going up for sale constantly for just under a million dollars and people are buying them! Small miserable outdated houses. I don't know who is buying them but they are selling quickly. The least expensive houses are around 1100 sq feet with one bathroom and sell around the 750k range. 1500 sq ft outdated ranches with tiny yards and unusable garages tucked away in the back yard are going for around 800 to one million. It is absolutely mind boggling. After student loan payments, one car payment, saving about 7% of take-home pay for retirement (about 900 per month), and a few other monthly payments, there is not a whole lot left over. It's not that we are poor but we are definitely not living the way I thought we would be living at this point in his career. We should be paying off his 300k in student loans now instead of only being able to pay the minimum monthly payments. We should be building equity in a home instead of throwing almost 4k per month away in rent. We should be able to afford a home! In my opinion it is complete stupidity to move here if you don't have to. If you have family here I understand but there are much better places in the US that will not rake you over the coals just so you can enjoy "the weather" or "the amenities" that this area has to offer. As soon as I can convince my husband to get the hell out of here and get his head out of his you know what, we are leaving. But until then, we trudge along like all the other lemmings who are mesmerized by sunny southern California. It is truly a fool's paradise. No offense to the people who are from here. I feel for you. I really do. Even the locals will admit, however, that real estate is completely out of control here.
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I can't imagine how difficult it is financially, especially with two kids. There's no question LA is expensive, and a doctor in LA does not live "how a doctor should live" in other places. It may be worth it to consider some of the other places in Southern California that are more affordable (Glendale is ridiculously expensive). Kaiser Fontana, Kaiser Redlands, Kaiser Riverside, are all 1-1.5 hours out of the city with a lower cost of living and more affordable property. I think it would be fairly easy to transfer within the Kaiser system. You still won't be that far from the beach, the mountains and all the other great things in LA.
On a side note, I don't think everyone who loves LA is a lemming or is mesmerized with it. I lived in the midwest, the northeast, and Southern California. There's no question after weighing all the different places, SoCal had what I was looking for (albeit at a hefty price tag). People just have different priorities.
That's true. Different people want different things. I didn't mean that to be offensive and I apologize if it came off that way. It's just that when I hear people say things like, "Yep, you pay for the weather", it just gets me so annoyed and there seems to be so much more to it than that. No amount of good weather justifies an economy that requires a very high six figure salary, possibly closer to seven figures, to afford an entry level home. Thank you for your response and suggestions about other areas of California. We will definitely have to look into that while we are here.
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So, tell us how you really feel. Lol
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The other option is to work 5 years in a low cost, high salary state, and save every penny. Save that $1 million, then you can pay off your student loans, get a down payment on a decent home and move to SoCal.
With a take home of about $30K per month doing locums, I have a lot more options and can save for my future. In 5 years I'll have financial security and it won't matter about the EM job market.
With a take home of about $30K per month doing locums, I have a lot more options and can save for my future. In 5 years I'll have financial security and it won't matter about the EM job market.
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Take home of 30k/month in NV is between 550-600k/yr pretax. That's a pretty nice gig, but I'm guessing not the world's nicest hospitals.
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My biggest annoyance with the "but the weather is amazing!" People: then why are you inside!?
In Chicago as soon as it hits 50 degrees every restaurant with a patio or a rooftop has the heat lamps on and you're outside. I am often the only person from the entire hospital eating lunch in the area with the picnic tables next to the cafeteria. The rest of my department eats in our windowless break room.
Bizarre.
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This is a bit off topic, but reading that I just wanted to jump in and comment that a 700sq foot TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT in a decent/relatively safe part of Brooklyn will run you at least 3,000/month, closer to $4,000/month if you want a washer/dryer or maybe a renovated kitchen. Actually buying an apartment like that will run you a MILLION DOLLARS or more and many people seem to buy these with cash only (??!) or at least a huge down payment. And the salaries are about the same as they are in LA... $240K at an academic shop, and without all the Kaiser benefits. So I certainly feel your pain but what you describe actually sounds doable to me... and NYC doesn't even have the sunshine. Less smog though, and you don't have to drive everywhere, so at least there's that I guess.
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This sounds like Incline Village in NV...?? Except Lake Tahoe is around 190 sq miles...hmm...
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Each person is entitled to their own priorities. I personally can't understand why someone would cut half to 2/3 of their ability to build retirement/kids college savings while living in one-quarter the house just for nice weather and a beach. I do admit the restaurants are great in LA but that is cancelled out by the traffic.
Also when I talk about half or 2/3 its compared to other pretty great metro areas with lots to do, not middle-of-nowhere BFE.
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Also when I talk about half or 2/3 its compared to other pretty great metro areas with lots to do, not middle-of-nowhere BFE.
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For me to even consider living in Cali I'd have to be making $5 million a year and have my workplace a brief commuting distance.
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Thank you. All major cities (NY, Boston, Chicago, Houston) have a high cost of living and crazy real estate prices associated with them. This isn't just an LA phenomenon.
I was one of those "I don't get the big deal about the weather" people, until I finally moved to LA. I have mild seasonal affective disorder, and it made a huge difference to me. It's fair if you don't want to shell out more money to live in a place just because of that, but I'm just saying, LA did me good.
People always tell me "there are so many other places that have good weather, beaches, mountains, excellent restaurants/night scene for a fraction of the cost!" I have been really hard pressed to find a city that even rivals LA. If you guys have any recommendations, I would love to hear about them.
While people always say "I can't understand why you would give up all your retirement savings to live in LA blah blah" I for one can't fathom why anyone in the right mind would live in a city like Chicago for example. The decent parts of Chicago i.e. the Loop, Lincoln Park, Wicker Park, the Gold Coast etc are not cheap. The cost of living is high, comparable to LA. Plus you live in the frozen tundra of Chiberia with literally the longest most gloomy winters in existence. In November, one of the residents training at a major institution in Chicago told me, "A wave of depression is about to take over the city, I just don't want to deal with another horrendous winter." Traffic is a problem there too (although not as bad as LA given better public transit). Being a big metropolitan area, I would venture to say EM salaries aren't the most competitive in Chicago and people are working harder and picking up more shifts to make ends meet.
The point is, the majority of major cities in this country are probably less than ideal places to live/work from a financial standpoint. That being said, I was happier in LA than I was living anywhere else.
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68PGunner
I have been to both NYC and LA. In my opinion, NYC is 10x better than LA. NYC just has a better mix of culture.
Good luck spending 1-1.5 hrs commuting to work everyday.
Try San Antonio if you want all year long sun and Latina women. Try Portland and Seattle if you like mild weather all year long and Asian women.
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Houston does not have a high cost of living. It's slightly below national average, I believe. Some areas are actually quite cheap, and you can live in nice areas for a very reasonable price (you can rent 4BR houses for $1-2k/month; buy these houses in nice areas for $200-300k). Plus, no state income tax! It also has the added benefit (?) of being a giant, sprawling monster that could actually swallow the entire state of Rhode Island.
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I had a partner who moved from San Fran area 10 yrs ago. He prob made 200-250k/yr, and all he had to show for it was a rental home and barely putting a dent in his loans. Moved to Texas and now he has 3 properties. No way he would have that in cali. 200k after taxes leaves very little to build equity.
I am in my early 40's, been doing EM fof 15 yrs. I have no debt other than my homes/rentals. My 3 kids college education is close to being paid for and they still have 10 yrs until the first even steps foot in college. I have 7 rentals plus my homestead but all still have mortgages. I have over 1 mil in retirement. I would put my net worth right at 2mil. But overall I feel I am still behind. When I first started, I hoped to be a 5mil at 40, and ready to retire. I attribute this to what I would consider living a high end lifestyle (new cars, expensive vacations) and risky investments. But again, I do not feel rich or even close to retiring.
I could not imagine living in Cali and having very little to my name after 15 yrs. I have been to Cali multiple times and see the positives that draws people there. But like a fine steak, even the great beaches or nightlife gets old after going there 10 times. I live in my house or go to work probably 80% of my life. Even if the other 20% is great, I am still going home to a 800K home that is 1500 sq feet and outdate. In Texas, My home is worth alittle over 1 Mil, but it was brand new when I moved in. I have over 5k sq feet with a movie theater, work out room, pool, Game room, huge kitchen, large back yard, outdoor kitchen, 3 car garage, with a beautiful view. Even if I loved Cali, I am still spending over 50% of my life in my overpriced small/outdated home.
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The only places that rival housing cost in LA are manhattan and san francisco. Boston is distant and so is Chicago, but all of those you often can get by without a car. They do have horrible weather.
Try Denver, Austin, phoenix, florida if you really need that much sun at 1/3 the price.
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Agreed.
While LA itself is definitely more expensive than most other major cities, like anywhere there are cheaper and more expensive neighborhoods. If you want to live in a place like Glendale, Burbank, or Pasadena you're going to be paying for it big time. As someone who used to live and work in LA, it's possible to find cheaper housing (1,500 sq ft house for well under 3,000/mo) if you're willing to live in the The Valley, Santa Clarita, or Lancaster. Not to mention moving to cheaper areas of SoCal like Ontario, Fontana, or Rancho Cucamonga that are still within 90 min of downtown LA, the beach, and the mountains.
As an aside, when I used to work for LACoFD, I knew multiple firefighters who refused to live in LA or for that matter California because of the high taxes and cost of living. They would live in NV or AZ, fly into town, work for a week straight, then fly home. It worked out well because they just slept at the fire station and didn't have to pay for an apartment. If they wanted to hang out in LA for a couple days before heading home it wasn't a problem since most stations have extra bunk rooms in case of wildfires and earthquakes. As one fire captain used to say: "I can afford a huge house in the mountains, a motorcycle, and a boat plus vacation in Hawaii for 2 weeks every year with all the money I'm saving."
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I would say except for famous doctors or successful spine surgeons an average doctor in Manhattan or LA lives similarly to the janitor in the midwest or the postal worker in florida.... which is fine if they think the culture and weather are worth it.
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I have a good friend who "struggled" to purchase a $2 million home in a nicer part of L.A. He put in 12 different full price+ offers but couldn't close because so many people were putting in full price plus 200k cash. Los Angeles is ridiculous.
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Here's what I never understood about high COL areas: what do the lower paid workers do? The majority of people still make much less than physicians (for instance, hospital ancillary staff). What's their lifestyle like in LA?
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Last time we were in Hawai'i, one of the girls working near the hotel (we were on Maui) said that she worked 3 jobs, and lives with her mother inland, near Kahalui. She said that there was NO WAY, EVER, that she would be able to afford a house in Ka'anapali or Lahaina. My guess, in LA, is similar - living in "hovels", or family housing.
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Yea NYC, LA, aspen etc the blue collar / retail / hotel industry staff usually commutes in from an obscene distance or lives in crowded communal/family units.
But there is probably a smaller difference between their lifestyle and a physician because often there is rent control for anyone making less than 75k or so.
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