How many prelim programs did you interview & rank? (Poll)

[elementals]

Gonna start this poll since this was one of the biggest unknowns on my litany of things to stress over going into the process, and no one out there seemed to have any answers. Hopefully it'll help some people down the line. Answer choices should be self-explanatory but feel free to PM w/ questions.

If you want to give more info, please respond to some or all of these questions. Obviously, you won't be able to answer some of these til after 1pm EDT tmrw. Also, feel free to leave blank anything you don't feel comfortable answering, or have forgotten. If you want to answer anonymously, feel free to PM me answers as well. Thanks!

1. How many PYs did you apply to?
2. Interview at?
3. Rank?
4. How many TYs did you apply to?
5. Interview at?
6. Rank?
7. Did you match prelim?
8. If yes, how far down the list did you go (and was this a program that was affiliated with, in the same city as, or informally "friendly with" your advanced program?)
9. If no, did you SOAP successfully?
10. If no, did your advance program create a spot for you, or help you land a spot somewhere?

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[EyeDidNotMatch]

1. NA
2. NA
3. NA
4. 10
5. 3
6. 3
7 Yes
8 at my #1

9./10. N/A

 

[Bronze Medal]

1. How many PYs did you apply to? - 1
2. Interview at? - 0
3. Rank? - 0
4. How many TYs did you apply to? - 10
5. Interview at? - 7
6. Rank? - 7
7. Did you match prelim? - Yes
8. If yes, how far down the list did you go? - Matched #2, not a/w my ophtho program

 

[elementals]

Results are in!

1. 10
2. 3 (5 offers)
3. 3
4. 16
5. 8 (11 offers)
6. 8
7. Yes
8. #1!!! W0000T!

* I'll note that effectively I only went on 8 interviews, as several of them were programs that interviewed for both PY and TY spots. Even so, I think the amount of stuff I applied to and interviewed at was a bit of overkill. I overapplied because I was a year out from graduation, and was concerned that programs would think this is a problem (and to be fair, it did come up in a LOT of interviews)
** To expand a little bit: I generally applied within 2-3 hrs of where I am currently situated, but in a few cases had a couple far-flung programs where I either had hoped to match ophtho or had heard about a particularly nice TY program. In the end I regretted those applications, as either they didn't offer interviews or I ended up dropping the interviews anyway due to exhaustion and broke-ness.
*** Despite saying my 26 PY/TY apps were overkill, I would still recommend applying to more than less. You do not want to be in a position where you have to SOAP into some terrible surgery prelim, or worse, have no spot at all and have to hope to god your advance program makes you a spot before you lose your advance match! I think generally if you can apply to enough programs that in the end you rank maybe 8-10 programs, you'll be safe. There are outliers, but at least through word of mouth, those were the numbers I heard.

 

[napo1eon]

1. How many PYs did you apply to? 10
2. Interview at? 4 (6 offers)
3. Rank? 4
4. How many TYs did you apply to? 18
5. Interview at? 2 (7 offers)
6. Rank? 2
7. Did you match prelim? If yes, how far down the list did you go (and was this a program that was affiliated with, in the same city as, or informally "friendly with" your advanced program?) Matched at my #1 (TY), unaffiliated with my home program in a state I have no ties to.

I was much more geographically ambitious with my TY applications than was realistic. Programs sounded good on paper when I decided to apply, but when I actually got an invite from some farther from where I lived, the reality of having to throw down the $$ and time to actually go interview there hit home, and I ended up cancelling.

I went on 5/6 of my intern year interviews after I was finished making the ophtho circuit --I'd recommend this if possible! I was never able to coordinate ophtho with PY/TY interview dates. The only school that expressly offered to make this work was Henry Ford (who also offer the TY interview if you get an ophtho interview there, even if you haven't previously applied --much appreciated). I also went on fewer interviews because I had the luxury of 2 relatively cushy home PY programs in community hospitals to fall back on. I would have felt uncomfortable with only 6 if I didn't have that safety net.

 

[eyeballing]

1. How many PYs did you apply to? 16 (10 IM, 6 surgery)
2. Interview at? 7 (interviewed at 5 IM and 2 gen surg, canceled 1 gen surg and 1 IM)
3. Rank? 7
4. How many TYs did you apply to? 14
5. Interview at? 3 (canceled 1)
6. Rank? 2
7. Did you match prelim? Yes! My #1, a TY not associated with my program

Strategy-wise, I applied to all the local IM and gen surg programs (so that I could possibly move one less time) and then all the TYs in the region plus a couple that were in an area I thought would be fun to live in for a year or that I had heard good things about. In the end I'll have to move twice but I think it'll be so worth it!

 

[PBandJ]

1. How many PYs did you apply to? - 12
2. Interview at? - 7
3. Rank? - 1 - (I matched at an ophtho program that is essentially categorical since we have to do our prelim year there)
4. How many TYs did you apply to? - 8
5. Interview at? - 2
6. Rank? - 0 (see #3 above)
7. Did you match prelim? - yes
8. If yes, how far down the list did you go (and was this a program that was affiliated with, in the same city as, or informally "friendly with" your advanced program?) - same program as advanced program
9. If no, did you SOAP successfully?
10. If no, did your advance program create a spot for you, or help you land a spot somewhere?

At the end of the day, even though I ended up matching at a categorical program where the ERAS match became a moot point, I was still happy with the # of programs to which I applied and interviews I received, although I had hoped for more TY interviews. These programs are getting super competitive, so be sure to apply to plenty of programs if you hope to land one!!

 

[spriteone]

...
* I'll note that effectively I only went on 8 interviews, as several of them were programs that interviewed for both PY and TY spots. Even so, I think the amount of stuff I applied to and interviewed at was a bit of overkill. I overapplied because I was a year out from graduation, and was concerned that programs would think this is a problem (and to be fair, it did come up in a LOT of interviews)
...
*** Despite saying my 26 PY/TY apps were overkill, I would still recommend applying to more than less. You do not want to be in a position where you have to SOAP into some terrible surgery prelim, or worse, have no spot at all and have to hope to god your advance program makes you a spot before you lose your advance match! I think generally if you can apply to enough programs that in the end you rank maybe 8-10 programs, you'll be safe. There are outliers, but at least through word of mouth, those were the numbers I heard.

I think in some ways it is harder to match to internship than residency when you are applying a year+ out from graduation. Time off is a double-edge sword. The time off is often building a stronger ophthalmology application but doesn't strengthen your application in regards to general medicine performance (perhaps weakens it if you don't have continued clinical experiences). I noticed some programs comment either on their website or on interview day they only wanted applicants within two years of graduation.

The problem is that casting a wide net does not always solve this problem. I think at this point, programs are only going to be interested if you have clear, recent ties to their program or geographic area. So a lot of random applications really are just dolladollabills thrown to the wind. I wouldn't cast a wide net like people do applying to all the ophthalmology programs, but 2-3 dozen doesn't seem unreasonable.

I totally agree with elementals's view on getting to the position where you can rank 8-10 programs. Once you have interviews rolling in, then you can choose to not attend. You have to be in a position to get those interviews in the first place though - by applying. Would hateeeee to be in the position to scramble for an intern year. The number of programs you applied to only looks like overkill once you've matched.

Applying to prelims really comes down to knowing your strengths and weaknesses as an applicant. Internships have you for one year. They want someone who is a personable worker bee who won't cause trouble. When there's many who fit this bill, things like communicated interest, geography, and numbers are what really matter... not publications, research, your love of ophtho, and all that.

 

[DrZeke]

I think in some ways it is harder to match to internship than residency when you are applying a year+ out from graduation. Time off is a double-edge sword. The time off is often building a stronger ophthalmology application but doesn't strengthen your application in regards to general medicine performance (perhaps weakens it if you don't have continued clinical experiences). I noticed some programs comment either on their website or on interview day they only wanted applicants within two years of graduation.

The problem is that casting a wide net does not always solve this problem. I think at this point, programs are only going to be interested if you have clear, recent ties to their program or geographic area. So a lot of random applications really are just dolladollabills thrown to the wind. I wouldn't cast a wide net like people do applying to all the ophthalmology programs, but 2-3 dozen doesn't seem unreasonable.

.

This is so true. It really is a double edged sword. Prelim programs looked at my time off as something crappy and weird. Ophtho people praised it and thought I was a dedicated.

Also I agree with selecting certain programs. There are so many prelims to apply to it can be overwhelming. Try and pick out places based on word of mouth or close to your categorical program. Some people pick a program close to med school or home. You have to try and narrow it down somehow...


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[elementals]

What sprite and Zeke said. Ophtho programs loved my research. Internships wondered if I still remembered my medicine -- which honestly is fair. The world of ophtho will have me for the rest of my career, and my research will add to that. PY/TYs have me for one year, and my research does nothing for them. In that one year, they just want me to not suck, work hard, and not kill a patient. Nearly every PY/TY I interviewed at asked me about what I was going to do to brush up on medicine.

For posterity, what seemed to work for me was this: I put together a plan to attend IM grand rounds to try to brush up on knowledge, and I promised I would at least read a review book or do some cases prior to internship. I defended my year off by mentioning I actually rotated through my floor and ICU sub-Is toward the end of 4th year, unlike some of my classmates who literally had nothing but blowoff electives from January onward. Finally, I explained I still had plenty of clinical exposure this year (albeit not at all IM-related), so I wasn't THAT far away from clinical practice. I think these were valid argument sthat went over well. Ultimately, though, I think 1) admitting that yes, I'm a year out from clinicals and 2) having a plan to try to brush up did a world of good. In medicine, people generally don't expect you to be perfect, but they do seem to very much expect (and appreciate) frank acknowledgment of weaknesses and hard work to overcome them.

 

[DrZeke]

What sprite and Zeke said. Ophtho programs loved my research. Internships wondered if I still remembered my medicine -- which honestly is fair. The world of ophtho will have me for the rest of my career, and my research will add to that. PY/TYs have me for one year, and my research does nothing for them. In that one year, they just want me to not suck, work hard, and not kill a patient. Nearly every PY/TY I interviewed at asked me about what I was going to do to brush up on medicine.

For posterity, what seemed to work for me was this: I put together a plan to attend IM grand rounds to try to brush up on knowledge, and I promised I would at least read a review book or do some cases prior to internship. I defended my year off by mentioning I actually rotated through my floor and ICU sub-Is toward the end of 4th year, unlike some of my classmates who literally had nothing but blowoff electives from January onward. Finally, I explained I still had plenty of clinical exposure this year (albeit not at all IM-related), so I wasn't THAT far away from clinical practice. I think these were valid argument sthat went over well. Ultimately, though, I think 1) admitting that yes, I'm a year out from clinicals and 2) having a plan to try to brush up did a world of good. In medicine, people generally don't expect you to be perfect, but they do seem to very much expect (and appreciate) frank acknowledgment of weaknesses and hard work to overcome them.

If you do take time off during med school and feel far from medicine... I took Step 2CK and CS during my time off. If you do it after med school, I would take a bit of time to shadow IM or attend their grand rounds at whatever Institution you're at, Like elementals recommended. In addition for my own self esteem, I had an elective block in the very beginning of my intern year and did step 3, July 17th. It was amazing to get it out of the way and I did pretty decent as compared to a lot of my friends who took it on an ICU month or something.

I was so lazy in parts of med school and was asleep for half my medicine rotation, but when I became an intern I perked up real quick and was a quick study. It's different when you are responsible for the patient and advocating for them to get good care. No matter how much you dislike IM if you learn to empathize with your patient, you will do well. In addition, when the motivation and fear are in you, you will kick into gear just like you need to. We made it into Ophtho and we are certainly capable of interning. don't stress too much.


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[pasquals]

My application cycle was last year but might as well contribute

1. How many PYs did you apply to? - 10 (only at my home program and big name schools i.e. BIDMC, wash u, brown, nw etc.)
2. Interview at? - chose to interview at 2
3. Rank? - 2 (ranked it #6 and #11)
4. How many TYs did you apply to? - 12
5. Interview at? - 9 (this is why I only chose to interview at 2 prelim med programs)
6. Rank? - 9
7. Did you match prelim? - yes
8. If yes, how far down the list did you go (and was this a program that was affiliated with, in the same city as, or informally "friendly with" your advanced program?) - #1

2 of my TY program interviews came AFTER I matched ophthalmology. They were super apologetic and stated they must have "overlooked my great application." LOL. Probably a load of BS. Most likely these programs have so many applications they just pick 40-50 students asap based on a first come first serve basis per specialty (i.e. derm, rads, anesthesia, ophtho, pmr) and hope for the best. I know my eras applications went out kinda late b/c I only applied to places that were geographically close to the places I interviewed first for ophtho (one of the benefits of the early sf match!).

 

[Super66]

1. How many PYs did you apply to? 30
2. Interview at? 8
3. Rank? 7
4. How many TYs did you apply to? 19
5. Interview at? 3
6. Rank? 3
7. Did you match prelim? yes
8. If yes, how far down the list did you go (and was this a program that was affiliated with, in the same city as, or informally "friendly with" your advanced program?) #4, no relationship to advanced program, close geographically.
9. If no, did you SOAP successfully? n/a
10. If no, did your advance program create a spot for you, or help you land a spot somewhere? n/a

It might appear as though I applied to too many programs, but the way it shook out, I honestly don't think I did. I was actually worried more about matching to a good prelim year than I was about matching ophthalmology. It seems to me that the PY/TY match is almost exclusively a numbers game (I base this notion on how the match shook out for the people I know, both for better and for worse). It doesn't matter nearly as much if you're a good fit, or have an interesting back story, or cool hobbies, or a sincere interest in the "field".

I think it's important for people to realize that a lot of the folks that post in this Opthalmology forum are exceptionally accomplished both academically and in other arenas as well. I think those of use who are a little less stellar tend to be much less well represented on SDN in general, though we are likely the majority of medical students. In any case, I regarded myself as a very average ophthalmology candidate. Very good board scores, but nothing jaw-dropping (and very average overall for ophtho applicants especially). Some research, but nothing published and nothing very impressive. No AOA. No PhD. Not a former Olympian, or symphony Orchestra member, or high-tech patent holder, or 4th generation ophtho family member.

I matched very high on my ophthalmology rank list, but I did not match where I wanted to be for PY. I mean, it's a great program (and a competitive one to match to actually) and I will be fine, but it is not the location I wanted and I was a little shocked/disappointed on match day. The folks in my class that did match at the program I was hoping for were all AOA members with very high Step 1's, from a variety of fields.

In any case, I wrote this post for those of my more average brothers and sisters. I don't want the posts above to give people the erroneous impression that everyone matches to their #1 TY. They don't. In fact, some very very smart people in my class matched to their advanced position in rads or anesthesia but DID NOT MATCH to an intern year and all of them had to SOAP into an undesirable academic PY or a surgery prelim.

The moral of the story is, you need to realize that the competition for these spots is FIERCE. You will be competing with the very best students going into Rad Onc, Derm, Anes, PM&R, Radiology, and Neuro. Each of these fields, regardless of how "competitive" they're considered, all have totally baller candidates. So when people tell you that they only applied to 6 TYs and 4 PYs.... well... be careful. I personally know people that were burned by this.

Another piece of advice for future applicants: contact the programs you're interested in. I was very surprised at some of the places that didn't invite me for an interview. Places that I didn't think were particularly competitive. And I don't think they are/were. I think that they get a ton of applications and that if you want an interview, you need to let them know. I wrote a handful of programs that I was particularly hoping to interview at and they all responded quickly with a spot. But I'm not convinced that would have happened if I were more passive about it.