How many hours/day do you spend studying for pharmacy school?

[StaviZFingerZ]

You missed the point, I'm not questioning that. <sigh> I'm questioning your claim that 4.0 students doesn't get higher average income than 2.0 students. (let's keep comparison apple to apple within a profession).

No, I didn't miss the point. In pharmacy, unless you're applying for a residency position, grade is completely irrelevant. You're going to tell me that 4.0 Wags pharmacist wil make more money than 2.0 Wags pharmacist? Also, in my company where there are about 30 pharmacists in the leadership position, there are less than 5 Rho Chi members... with me included. However, none of us are the top dawgs. What good did our grades do?

It's great you want to excel. Do it. But don't believe your grades will get you a higher paying job. And don't believe because you have better grades than others that you'll be a better pharmacist.

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[xiphoid2010]

No, I didn't miss the point. In pharmacy, unless you're applying for a residency position, grade is completely irrelevant. You're going to tell me that 4.0 Wags pharmacist wil make more money than 2.0 Wags pharmacist? Also, in my company where there are about 30 pharmacists in the leadership position, there are less than 5 Rho Chi members... with me included. However, none of us are the top dawgs. What good did our grades do?

It's great you want to excel. Do it. But don't believe your grades will get you a higher paying job. And don't believe because you have better grades than others that you'll be a better pharmacist.

In my school, there are less than 50 Rho Chi members out of 500 total students. So if you got 5 Rho Chi members out of 30 leadership positions, then it just proved my point, better students are over represented in higher positions.

And even if 2.0 makes as much as 4.0 students in retail right out of school, do you have any data to prove that higher retail positions don't have more good students?

On the hospital side, we both know that GPA plays a big part in residency. Residency is the ticket to a clinical/administration position, which more often than not pays more, and give you a leg up in moving forward. And say a person want an MBA/MPH on top to really boost his standing, again GPA matters.

I don't get good grades for no reason. I do it largely because it gets residency/fellowship/recommendations, open doors that are not available to 2.0 students and position my career a cut above the average. If you can show me that getting a 2.0 GPA will somehow better my chances, I'm all ears.

 

[WestTXisGr8]

The story my old boss told me was to make a point: knowledge is power, knowledge is money.

He's a Ph.D who's pretty famous in organic/med chem field. He was trying to urge me to move beyond what I had, which was good by B.S standard but had little advancement opportunites.

Though I would argue that knowledge is not power. Knowledge is only potential power. The USE of knowledge is power.

I have a couple of PhD idiots in my family (in-laws - I'm not going to claim them as blood relatives!) who can't (won't) earn an income or relate to a normal human being. They are full of knowledge (along with a few other things). However they don't know how to use that knowledge to be a productive member of society. One of them is on food stamps. A PhD, a $60,000 education (or so), and upteen years of college but can't hold a job - but he'll look down his nose at anyone who doesn't have a PhD. So knowledge alone is NOT power.

The power of knowledge is brought about by action, not just by obtaining and having the knowledge. Such as, you are on an airplane, and you are taught how to use the emergency door. But when the emergency comes, you freeze, unable to save yourself or anyone else because of fright, do you have power? You have the knowledge. You only have the power when you put that knowledge into action.

That being said, in my opinion, grades are not an indication of power (ability to action), they are only an indication that you have the knowledge. However, they ARE the first step, one which cannot be skipped, and should not be taken lightly.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

In my school, there are less than 50 Rho Chi members out of 500 total students. So if you got 5 Rho Chi members out of 30 leadership positions, then it just proved my point, better students are over represented in higher positions.

Well, at my school, there were 30 rho chi in a class of 150. So your logic just failed. Also, considering we have more than 800 hospitals pharmacists who work for us with 30 leadership positions, it shows higher earning pharmacists weren't higher grades earning students.

And even if 2.0 makes as much as 4.0 students in retail right out of school, do you have any data to prove that higher retail positions don't have more good students?

Do you have any data that higher reatail positions are comprised of better students?

On the hospital side, we both know that GPA plays a big part in residency. Residency is the ticket to a clinical/administration position, which more often than not pays more, and give you a leg up in moving forward. And say a person want an MBA/MPH on top to really boost his standing, again GPA matters.

So, then how come retail pharmacist who had lower GPA make more money than your typical residency trained pharmacist?

I don't get good grades for no reason. I do it largely because it gets residency/fellowship/recommendations, open doors that are not available to 2.0 students and position my career a cut above the average. If you can show me that getting a 2.0 GPA will somehow better my chances, I'm all ears.

I never said 2.0 student will do better nor did I say 4.0 will do better than a 2.0 student. What I did say is getting a 4.0 doesn't mean you'll make more money. duh.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Well, at my school, there were 30 rho chi in a class of 150. So your logic just failed. Also, considering we have more than 800 hospitals pharmacists who work for us with 30 leadership positions, it shows higher earning pharmacists weren't higher grades earning students.

I'm going to call you BS on this one. Only top 20% are invited, and not all of join. So let's stop making things up trying to prove a point please. You just under mined the creditability of your "example". I'm not going to use questionable numbers that you came up. I'm going to have to ask for verifiable data from now on.

Do you have any data that higher reatail positions are comprised of better students?

Please don't try this "You asked me first, I asked you second" game. The burden of proving poorer students do as good/better than good student is on you, remember?

So, then how come retail pharmacist who had lower GPA make more money than your typical residency trained pharmacist?

Apple to oranges again. Why do mail order pharmacist make less then retail? Why do physicians in private practice make more than ones at nonprofit hospitals? It's commons sense not to compare apple to oranges.

I never said 2.0 student will do better nor did I say 4.0 will do better than a 2.0 student. What I did say is getting a 4.0 doesn't mean you'll make more money. duh.

And I just disproved with asian vs average data that better students do earn more in general. Do you have anything to prove that's not true in pharmacy? Do good students which can access residencies somehow makes less than bad ones that can't? (in the same job setting please) Your claim is running counter to general trend, the burden of proof is on you to prove your claim. (with creditable data please).

 

[xiphoid2010]

That being said, in my opinion, grades are not an indication of power (ability to action), they are only an indication that you have the knowledge. However, they ARE the first step, one which cannot be skipped, and should not be taken lightly.

Agreed. Being a better student doesn't give you power automatically, there are other essential components as well. If fact, it's often not about the grades, but the qualities that enabled someone to get those grades that's important.

My old boss was using that story to make a point, not mapping out the entire process.

 

[sakigt]

I don't get good grades for no reason. I do it largely because it gets residency/fellowship/recommendations, open doors that are not available to 2.0 students and position my career a cut above the average. If you can show me that getting a 2.0 GPA will somehow better my chances, I'm all ears.

Luckily when I was getting my BA with no intent of going any further I got good grades "for no reason."

You never know when I high GPA will come in handy...

 

[type b pharmD]

Luckily when I was getting my BA with no intent of going any further I got good grades "for no reason."

You never know when I high GPA will come in handy...

definitely.

If you cant get good grades, and you're still trying your hardest, dont stress about it. but if you can get good grades, you might as well because they can be very handy to have for so many erasons.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

I'm going to call you BS on this one. Only top 20% are invited, and not all of join. So let's stop making things up trying to prove a point please. You just under mined the creditability of your "example". I'm not going to use questionable numbers that you came up. I'm going to have to ask for verifiable data from now on.

You can call it BS but no one turned down the invitation in my class. We actually had 163+ in the class and I believe 32 were invited. And everyone joined. I threw out 150 and 30... but those were fairly accurate numbers. We took honor in joining Rho Chi at that time..today, it really means nothing. Big deal....we were in top 20% in grades during first year or 2.... so what.

Please don't try this "You asked me first, I asked you second" game. The burden of proving poorer students do as good/better than good student is on you, remember?

Not playing that game. I don't have to prove it to you. Because "grades" are not factored in my hiring practice nor raises and promotions. Rho Chi is often listed in the resume but in my practice, those pharmacists do not outperform non rho chi pharmacists. I got good grades...but there were plenty of pharmacists who were much better workers than I was. Because I was a lazy ass....yet efficient.

Apple to oranges again. Why do mail order pharmacist make less then retail? Why do physicians in private practice make more than ones at nonprofit hospitals? It's commons sense not to compare apple to oranges.

This statement proves grades are fairly irrelevant to financial performance. It depends on what you do not what grades you got. What do you know about private practice vs. nonprofit hospital anyways?? I know of plenty of nonprofit hospital internal medicine attendings and faculties who make plenty of money while private practice IM physicians barely scraping by. This has nothing to do with their grades rather their choices in practice setting and their business savy. And many private practice physicians have privileges at non profit facilities to practice. Sounds like you have no clue how medicine is practiced.

And I just disproved with asian vs average data that better students do earn more in general. Do you have anything to prove that's not true in pharmacy? Do good students which can access residencies somehow makes less than bad ones that can't? (in the same job setting please) Your claim is running counter to general trend, the burden of proof is on you to prove your claim. (with creditable data please).

Only thing you proved is that Asians have a higher level of education not necessarily outperformance in grades nor does it show that higher income is due to better grades. Again, "the millionaire next door" which is based on a thorough research outlines the traits of financially independend americans in which education is a contributing factor but not high achievement in academics through the means of better grades. Read the book and let's discuss.

You will learn that your job opportunity, promotions and recognition will not come from "grades" as you enter the real world. It's fairly evident that your myopic view of "get good grades and you'll do better than others" is probably a mantra your parents ingrained in you. Be prepared to be disappointed as you learn that there's more to life than good grades when better looking or better connected collegues who got worse grades than you pass you by in promotions. There's nothing wrong with striving to do better in life but don't believe that because you have better grades than your classmates that you'll do better in life.

Have you learned how to dose Tobra yet?

 

[xiphoid2010]

^

A good students can do ALL the things a bad students can do AND more. Good students have opportunities/growth paths unavailable to bad students. Unless NOBODY take advantage of those opportunities, then their average will be higher than bad students.

The census data show that asians (better students on average) have higher than average income is in support of that. You haven't got any data, except uncorroborated and questionable claims.

If you believe that somehow good students all waste away our extra opportunities and work, then there is nothing more to say. I'm done here.

 

[HyZaAr21]

Lots of bickering but many good points in here. The fact of it is your success in life wholly depends on your industry. You can make millions designing software or you could follow the path of that Girls Gone Wild pervert and film chicks fingering themselves. Whatever is in demand is what wil pay whether it is a welder earning 90K a year, a pornstar earning 900k, or some banker or news mogul earning 9000K. For that Zyvox prick that seems to think his friend is the **** --> he may be good at PBM and giving lectures but it sounds like he is more on the management side then the actual medicine area. If you got a 2.0 your whole time in pharm school then you are a bad pharmacist and have learned nothing and will not be able to implement pharm school knowledge as you never actually understood it. I am actually able to retain things over many semesters depending on the subject. If you go to a grad school and are not able to retain and implement most of what you learned than you never truly understood anything. If you did, then you will succeed in your focus. Grades may not be everything but not this: there are explicit ideas and concepts to learn in grad school. If you cannot obtain a decent GPA and are not able to retain and accumulate information then you are a bad student as you are not learning the material and using it in life as you should. People go to grad schools to get specific jobs and not doing well in those schools will result in an ineffecient and less capable worker.

Oh ,and the reason that Asians end up so well is due to emphasis on education. I am asian and I see it all the time in other asian families and cultures. It's just that there is so much white, black, mexican, etc trash in the US that it throws the whole figure out of whack and pushes it toward the Asian population who are much less likely to be in prison, have babies as teenagers, become murderers, become addicted to cocaine. My source: stats, mainly from the Department of Labor's website.

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

Lots of bickering but many good points in here. The fact of it is your success in life wholly depends on your industry. You can make millions designing software or you could follow the path of that Girls Gone Wild pervert and film chicks fingering themselves. Whatever is in demand is what wil pay whether it is a welder earning 90K a year, a pornstar earning 900k, or some banker or news mogul earning 9000K. For that Zyvox prick that seems to think his friend is the **** --> he may be good at PBM and giving lectures but it sounds like he is more on the management side then the actual medicine area. If you got a 2.0 your whole time in pharm school then you are a bad pharmacist and have learned nothing and will not be able to implement pharm school knowledge as you never actually understood it. I am actually able to retain things over many semesters depending on the subject. If you go to a grad school and are not able to retain and implement most of what you learned than you never truly understood anything. If you did, then you will succeed in your focus. Grades may not be everything but not this: there are explicit ideas and concepts to learn in grad school. If you cannot obtain a decent GPA and are not able to retain and accumulate information then you are a bad student as you are not learning the material and using it in life as you should. People go to grad schools to get specific jobs and not doing well in those schools will result in an ineffecient and less capable worker.

Oh ,and the reason that Asians end up so well is due to emphasis on education. I am asian and I see it all the time in other asian families and cultures. It's just that there is so much white, black, mexican, etc trash in the US that it throws the whole figure out of whack and pushes it toward the Asian population who are much less likely to be in prison, have babies as teenagers, become murderers, become addicted to cocaine. My source: stats, mainly from the Department of Labor's website.

If only my parents were Asian....what a paradise life would be.....

 

[dafoozeking]

Everyday I wake up at 6AM, walk to my washroom, and piss excellence.
Then I go outside and run 5KM, returning to my kitchen to have milk + protein whey powder, a chicken salad, and 2 slices of PBJ toast.
I then go to Pharmacy school, returning home at 7PM and studying until 11PM when I sleep, exhausted until 6AM.
Total hours spent studying at school = about 2.
Total hours spent studying at home = about 2 (efficiently).

 

[xiphoid2010]

If only my parents were Asian....what a paradise life would be.....

errrrrrrr...... well, maybe not so much. Growing up in an asian family is just a liiiiiiiiiiittle bit like growing up in a boot camp.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

errrrrrrr...... well, maybe not so much. Growing up in an asian family is just a liiiiiiiiiiittle bit like growing up in a boot camp.

Have you been to a boot camp and how would you know what it's like to grow up in a non asian family?

 

[Argentium]

Have you been to a boot camp and how would you know what it's like to grow up in a non asian family?

stop getting all offended you little puss. Asian parents (immigrants) tend to stress education more than other minorities, and you can pretty much tell how a family functions if you spend enough time with them. You get the general attitude of whether they're strict or lenient. Honestly, its clear to me that education and hard work can only get you so far, so I don't understand the enormous emphasis that they put onto it - but its better than letting kids slack which is what a lot of the rest of the US population does.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

I'm not offended.

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

How the heck did this become an Asian vs. Non Asian issue??? I don't see how that comes into play at all...

But you guys do realize you're arguing with someone who has quite a vast experience dealing with top notch pharmacists/leaders in the industry, right?

I was Rho Chi too...even an officer. But I know for a fact that has little to do with the success I've had professionally. As a matter of fact, nowhere on my resume or CV do I even list it, nor my GPA.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

How the heck did this become an Asian vs. Non Asian issue??? I don't see how that comes into play at all...

But you guys do realize you're arguing with someone who has quite a vast experience dealing with top notch pharmacists/leaders in the industry, right?

I was Rho Chi too...even an officer. But I know for a fact that has little to do with the success I've had professionally. As a matter of fact, nowhere on my resume or CV do I even list it, nor my GPA.

Xiphoid deals with top notch pharmacists in the industry? I didn't know...my apologies!

You were a Rho Chi officer? What a dork.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

How the heck did this become an Asian vs. Non Asian issue??? I don't see how that comes into play at all...

But you guys do realize you're arguing with someone who has quite a vast experience dealing with top notch pharmacists/leaders in the industry, right?

I was Rho Chi too...even an officer. But I know for a fact that has little to do with the success I've had professionally. As a matter of fact, nowhere on my resume or CV do I even list it, nor my GPA.

Some kids have no idea..

 

[SpirivaSunrise]

Xiphoid deals with top notch pharmacists in the industry? I didn't know...my apologies!

You were a Rho Chi officer? What a dork.

Yeah. Walked in to school one day after missing the meeting the afternoon prior...and was told I had been nominated/elected. OK!

Got another pair of fancy curtain ties to wear around my neck at graduation though!!!

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

Yeah. Walked in to school one day after missing the meeting the afternoon prior...and was told I had been nominated/elected. OK!

Got another pair of fancy curtain ties to wear around my neck at graduation though!!!

That's why we go out of our way to make the conference calls...man you miss one and they got you volunteered to do all sorts of goofy ass work..

 

[prevacid]

the bickering in this thread is mind-boggling....we are pharmacists or pharmacists to be, we should respect each other

the bottom line is, you will get as far in life as YOU WANT to go....pharmD + retail gets you 100K a year, for some people thats ok....other people want more clinical jobs, so they do residency and make close to 100K afterwards, thats fine too....other pharmds go to law school, or med school afterwards and then make 200+, thats fine too...its all about what you want to do

in school however, its about being well rounded, i frankly believe rho chi to be overrated(if you get in, good for you; if not, its not the end of the world)...i did 3 year pharm school and i worked 14 hours a week EVERY week and i was in 2 clubs, i wasnt good enough for rho chi but i still pulled a 3.6...study wise, i just pulled all nighters

 

[xiphoid2010]

How the heck did this become an Asian vs. Non Asian issue??? I don't see how that comes into play at all...

But you guys do realize you're arguing with someone who has quite a vast experience dealing with top notch pharmacists/leaders in the industry, right?

I was Rho Chi too...even an officer. But I know for a fact that has little to do with the success I've had professionally. As a matter of fact, nowhere on my resume or CV do I even list it, nor my GPA.

It's not an asian vs non-asian issue. Asians were used as a population statistic to show that there is a correlation between education vs income.

Case in example. In hospital, you need good grades to apply for clinical or pharm admin residency or research fellowship. In retail, one good route to move to corporate position is to get an respectable MBA, and guess what's needed on that application.

I would agree that these probably don't make a HUGE difference overall. Clinical RPh only makes about $10k more than staff RPh where I work. DOP makes more but even there are only few of us good students interested in the Pharm admin residency hence the shortage out there. Maybe that's why he's not seeing it.

We all recognize success is multi factorial. But having it IS an advantage/tool for success. And even if only a tiny fraction of those good students use these exclusive advantages, then there will be some difference.

 

[prevacid]

^
I think anyone with a 3.5 or above for p2 and beyond should rightfully be pretty pleased with their performance. Not only does it put you on a competitive footing for residencies, it give you access to more scholarship $$$. Of course being able to grin when others moan and complain about tests is pretty price less.

i know plenty of cats who rolled 3.9-4.0 who complained bout test questions..it works both ways

 

[prevacid]

Hmmm, well I pull all-nighters before an exam too. Ha, ha, its not because I procrastinated studying, its just that my adrenaline is much higher right before the exam, and I retain so much more. Ummm, if I'm too tired to pull an all-nighter then I'll take a 1-3 hour nap. Its kind of an art. If you don't get enough sleep then you'll do worse on the exam. However, some nights I can go without sleep. Also you have to consider the length of the exam, and what time of the day its at. Don't get me wrong, I study a lot on the weekends, and the weekdays too. I'm doing pretty good though; I got a 4.0 for the last two quarters. I've had 2 exams/week for the past three weeks. First time I've pulled 2 all-nighters in a week for three weeks. It has taken a great physical toll on me, and now my sleeping schedule is messed up. It's not for most people, but I guess it works for me

i was the master of all nighters... i knew exactly when to drink the caffiene, how much fluids to drink thru the night, what to eat, etc...id go take the test, then skip the rest of the day and sleep...it worked beautifully

and bout the GPA, i dont know how much weight one can put into it....it also has to go into how one is as a test taker....im a very good test taker, cuz i always had the right feeling as to what the profs ask, i knew how to do case questions, etc, in fact i hardly ever read the full big case questions completely, cuz i knew what they would ask for and they put in a lot of fluff to throw kids off..if we were alloted 50 mins for a exam, in most exams, i was out by 15 max(only longer for kinetic tests which had calculations)...why? im not the smartest out there, but im just a real good test taker...so i dont know what anyone can take away from a gpa, too many factors go into it, such as:
1) did student work while in schooL? only one person in our rho chi worked on the side
2) was student having any difficulties with life (illlness, etc)
3) does student have family to attend to?

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

It's not an asian vs non-asian issue. Asians were used as a population statistic to show that there is a correlation between education vs income.

Case in example. In hospital, you need good grades to apply for clinical or pharm admin residency or research fellowship. In retail, one good route to move to corporate position is to get an respectable MBA, and guess what's needed on that application.

I would agree that these probably don't make a HUGE difference overall. Clinical RPh only makes about $10k more than staff RPh where I work. DOP makes more but even there are only few of us good students interested in the Pharm admin residency hence the shortage out there. Maybe that's why he's not seeing it.

We all recognize success is multi factorial. But having it IS an advantage/tool for success. And even if only a tiny fraction of those good students use these exclusive advantages, then there will be some difference.

I thought you was done..

I hire DOPs.. and I hire Clinical Managers. Yes, residency and post PharmD education are important criteria. Are we looking for Harvard & Stanford MBA in DOPs? No. But is MBA the deciding factor? No.

We're looking for experience and leadership. Are grades factored into our hiring practice? No. But I look for accomplishments in work experience. Was it the 4.0 during 1st and 2nd year of didactic pharmacy education that's responsible for putting forth profound pharmacy initiatives that change our practice for the better? No.

There's so much more to pharmacy practice than good grades. In fact, if I had it my way, pharmacy resident selection would require a common sense assessement 50%, Academics 10%, Practical Experience 30%, personal skills 20% and motivation, 30%. Wait..that's 140%!! I'll take it.

 

[xiphoid2010]

the bickering in this thread is mind-boggling....we are pharmacists or pharmacists to be, we should respect each other

the bottom line is, you will get as far in life as YOU WANT to go....pharmD + retail gets you 100K a year, for some people thats ok....other people want more clinical jobs, so they do residency and make close to 100K afterwards, thats fine too....other pharmds go to law school, or med school afterwards and then make 200+, thats fine too...its all about what you want to do

in school however, its about being well rounded, i frankly believe rho chi to be overrated(if you get in, good for you; if not, its not the end of the world)...i did 3 year pharm school and i worked 14 hours a week EVERY week and i was in 2 clubs, i wasnt good enough for rho chi but i still pulled a 3.6...study wise, i just pulled all nighters

Agreed, we should respect each other. I wonder why some people have to resort to hurling insults when others don't agree with him.

Of the routes you named, 3 of the 4 requires good grades, and are closed to bad students.

P.S Yes, Rho Chi is much less active than ASP and ASHP, both of which are more rewarding IMHO. But hey, it never hurts to have one more honor to pad that resume.

 

[xiphoid2010]

i know plenty of cats who rolled 3.9-4.0 who complained bout test questions..it works both ways

some people just love to complain... it's fun to watch some times.

 

[prevacid]

Agreed, we should respect each other. I wonder why some people have to resort to hurling insults when others don't agree with him.

Of the routes you named, 3 of the 4 requires good grades, and are closed to bad students.

P.S Yes, Rho Chi is much less active than ASP and ASHP, both of which are more rewarding IMHO. But hey, it never hurts to have one more honor to pad that resume.

you're assuming low grade = bad student....what if the student lost a fam member and took time to get over it? what if a person has a wife and kid to look after aside from school (the one adult in my class has 2 kids, worked 10 hours a week, and pulled off a 2.5, i would hire him over any1 else cause what he did under his circumstances is a lot better than some kid studying 24/7 and getting a 4.0)

and getting into med school isnt THAT hard, one just has to go thru the Carribbean route

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

the bickering in this thread is mind-boggling....we are pharmacists or pharmacists to be, we should respect each other

the bottom line is, you will get as far in life as YOU WANT to go....pharmD + retail gets you 100K a year, for some people thats ok....other people want more clinical jobs, so they do residency and make close to 100K afterwards, thats fine too....other pharmds go to law school, or med school afterwards and then make 200+, thats fine too...its all about what you want to do

in school however, its about being well rounded, i frankly believe rho chi to be overrated(if you get in, good for you; if not, its not the end of the world)...i did 3 year pharm school and i worked 14 hours a week EVERY week and i was in 2 clubs, i wasnt good enough for rho chi but i still pulled a 3.6...study wise, i just pulled all nighters

Too bad according to some here.... you won't make as much money as someone who pulled a 4.0!! Just sayin..

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

you're assuming low grade = bad student....what if the student lost a fam member and took time to get over it? what if a person has a wife and kid to look after aside from school (the one adult in my class has 2 kids, worked 10 hours a week, and pulled off a 2.5, i would hire him over any1 else cause what he did under his circumstances is a lot better than some kid studying 24/7 and getting a 4.0)

and getting into med school isnt THAT hard, one just has to go thru the Carribbean route

Finally...some one gets it..

 

[prevacid]

Too bad according to some here.... you won't make as much money as someone who pulled a 4.0!! Just sayin..

hopefully they dont work in the HR dept to the places where ive sent my resume

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

Prevacid..

I don't remember the year exactly. 95, 96 or 97... My first cost savings initiative I ever presented to the P&T was Prilosec to Prevacid conversion. It was going to save our hospital about $5,000 per year. I've attended many P&T before...but this was my project. The P&T was at 7:00 AM and I was nervous as hell...there were about 30 people in the meeting.. about 15 physicians..admin...nurses...respiratory etc..

I don't remember how I got through it..but I remember I was pretty nervous about it. My DOP then just chuckled at me when I asked "dude..what if they don't approve this...you know..this is really important." He just said..."present it and let the committee decide."

Well...they approved it.. start of a fun career..

I remember those 2 gorgeous Tap Pharmaceutical reps who pushed Prevacid...they were so happy.. I wonder where they are today.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I thought you was done..

I hire DOPs.. and I hire Clinical Managers. Yes, residency and post PharmD education are important criteria. Are we looking for Harvard & Stanford MBA in DOPs? No. But is MBA the deciding factor? No.

We're looking for experience and leadership. Are grades factored into our hiring practice? No. But I look for accomplishments in work experience. Was it the 4.0 during 1st and 2nd year of didactic pharmacy education that's responsible for putting forth profound pharmacy initiatives that change our practice for the better? No.

There's so much more to pharmacy practice than good grades. In fact, if I had it my way, pharmacy resident selection would require a common sense assessement 50%, Academics 10%, Practical Experience 30%, personal skills 20% and motivation, 30%. Wait..that's 140%!! I'll take it.

I though I'm done with you. But you had to come back to bug me, didn't you?

"There's so much more to pharmacy practice than good grades" -- I would agree. It's not the only thing, but is one of the things. I named residency to prove my point. Now, would you explain to me again what bad students can do that good students can't?

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

I though I'm done with you. But you had to come back to bug me, didn't you?

"There's so much more to pharmacy practice than good grades" -- I would agree. It's not the only thing, but is one of the things. I named residency to prove my point. Now, would you explain to me again what bad students can do that good students can't?

Bad students can spend more time on a driving range beating balls..and later become the company ringer and get more promotions.

Bad students can proudly say C = PharmD and be proud of it.

Bad students can proudly tell the good student that "heh..I studied less than you..got worse grades than you..and still make the same money as you."

Dude, get real. I'm not promoting bad grades. I'm just trying to say don't go around believing you'll be more successful than others because your GPA is higher than others.

 

[xiphoid2010]

you're assuming low grade = bad student....what if the student lost a fam member and took time to get over it? what if a person has a wife and kid to look after aside from school (the one adult in my class has 2 kids, worked 10 hours a week, and pulled off a 2.5, i would hire him over any1 else cause what he did under his circumstances is a lot better than some kid studying 24/7 and getting a 4.0)

and getting into med school isnt THAT hard, one just has to go thru the Carribbean route

I know there are exceptions to the rules. We can all name a few, but they are still exceptions (do most pharmacy students have a wife and 2 kids + 10 hr work? And how many 4.0 students study 24/7? I work 2 internships at the same time, and most other top students work too).

Let's not side track by every exceptions, and stick to general trend here.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Bad students can spend more time on a driving range beating balls..and later become the company ringer and get more promotions.

Bad students can proudly say C = PharmD and be proud of it.

Bad students can proudly tell the good student that "heh..I studied less than you..got worse grades than you..and still make the same money as you."

Dude, get real. I'm not promoting bad grades. I'm just trying to say don't go around believing you'll be more successful than others because your GPA is higher than others.

Really? Residency must be for fools. After all, clinical RPh don't make a bit more than staff; DOP make the same as staff; Pharm.D/MBA make no more than a regular retail pharmacist. Yep, good students going into these must be idiots.

I don't claim to be more successful than anyone. I do think being a good student now will give me a leg up. I want to be more successful, that's why I'm not slacking off now like some people.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Too bad according to some here.... you won't make as much money as someone who pulled a 4.0!! Just sayin..

And someone here will actually equate 3.6 to bad grades, in a desperate attempt to imply 3.6 are the bad students others mentioned. It just boggles the mind. Are you in the habit of twisting other people's words when they don't agree with yours?

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

Really? Residency must be for fools. After all, clinical RPh don't make a bit more than staff; DOP make the same as staff; Pharm.D/MBA make no more than a regular retail pharmacist. Yep, good students going into these must be idiots.

I don't claim to be more successful than anyone. I do think being a good student now will give me a leg up. I want to be more successful, that's why I'm not slacking off now like some people.

You're assuming DOPs were good students. Look around the world and see who become DOPs. How many DOPs do you know? How come DOPs with no residency make more than clincal managers with higher grades and 2 residencies? How come your graveyard pharmacist make as much as the DOP and more than the clinical manager? How come your staff pharmacist who became an IT expert by default make more than clinical pharmacist? It aint the grades dude..get over it. And it doesn't require 4.0 in pharmacy school to get an MBA. Below 3.0 it gets dicey then you can buy an e-MBA...

We should all strive to do best we can. But I'll say it again... good grades in pharmacy school is overrated. And this is coming from someone who made Dean's list 8 semesters.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

And someone here will actually equate 3.6 to bad grades, in a desperate attempt to imply 3.6 are the bad students others mentioned. It just boggles the mind. Are you in the habit of twisting other people's words when they don't agree with yours?

what's better 4.0 or 3.6?

As far as twisting words, where did I say or imply 3.6 was "bad?"

But I do recall you implying better grades mean more money.

 

[xiphoid2010]

You're assuming DOPs were good students. Look around the world and see who become DOPs. How many DOPs do you know? How come DOPs with no residency make more than clincal managers with higher grades and 2 residencies? How come your graveyard pharmacist make as much as the DOP and more than the clinical manager? How come your staff pharmacist who became an IT expert by default make more than clinical pharmacist? It aint the grades dude..get over it. And it doesn't require 4.0 in pharmacy school to get an MBA. Below 3.0 it gets dicey then you can buy an e-MBA...

We should all strive to do best we can. But I'll say it again... good grades in pharmacy school is overrated. And this is coming from someone who made Dean's list 8 semesters.

Where did I say i assumed DOP are good students? Where did I say you need a 4.0? 3.6 is fine.

But look around you, how many fresh grads get to be DOP's? Mean while those with GPA good enough to get a Pharm. Admin residency make it to be a DOP right after.

I say again. Being a good student will give you access to routes up that others do not. It's not about the grades, it's about having to tools that others don't have.

 

[xiphoid2010]

what's better 4.0 or 3.6?

They are about the same job wise. 3.6 and 4.0 both can access residency and many other lucrative career options. What's the typical resident's these days? Round 3.5'ish? It's not 2.0 is it?

As far as twisting words, where did I say or imply 3.6 was "bad?"

You implied that I claimed 3.6 won't make as much money.

But I do recall you implying better grades mean more money.

That was about bad students vs good students on average, and on large differences such as 2.0 vs 4.0. Yet, you tried to twist it out of context into about 3.6 vs 4.0 which typically are both good students.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

Where did I say i assumed DOP are good students? Where did I say you need a 4.0? 3.6 is fine.

But isn't 4.0 better? And didn't you say higher GPA..more income?

But look around you, how many fresh grads get to be DOP's? Mean while those with GPA good enough to get a Pharm. Admin residency make it to be a DOP right after.

I don't know of any who became a DOP right after Pharm Admin residency. They would eventually become one...but not straight out. It doesn't mean there aren't any. But let me tell you....those pharm admin residents require a lot more training and reprograming before they become an effective DOP.

Becoming a DOP requires experience. A lot of it. But there are more DOPs without MBA and Pharm Admin residency than who do. At least in my company... and we have about 300 DOPs..
I once worked for a hospital chain with 180 hospitals.. about 20 had MBAs.. Before that, I worked for a 65 hospital chain. Had 3 MBAs..

I say again. Being a good student will give you access to routes up that others do not. It's not about the grades, it's about having to tools that others don't have.

There's nothing wrong with being a good student. And keep it up. And if your aspiration is to be in pharm admin....our paths will cross, I promise. But when you're in position to evaluate other pharmacists, you'll learn that grades are the least important trait you'll use to evaluate them. Trust me on this one.

 

[xiphoid2010]

But isn't 4.0 better? And didn't you say higher GPA..more income?

You actually think 2.0 vs 4.0 is the same as 3.6 vs 4.0. Really?

As for DOP, I have spoken about it with the program coordinator at OSU and the 2 Pharm Admin residents where I work. True, not all hospitals will take one with 2 year residency right on. But there is a shortage, and many especially smaller hospitals will take one on. That's what I'm shooting for, the opportunity and another stepping stone on the way up.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that there is MORE to a career than grades. Good grades in school doesn't always correlate with success. But as you can clearly see, it opens doors that are not there, places that bad grades have hard time accessing. I fully intend to use this to my advantage, as do many good students.

I hope our paths do cross. When we do, you can add me as another person who took adavantage of his hard work and good grades rather than squandered it.