How likely is it to make $375-400k in Psych?

[finalpsychyear]

That coast fire life is so easy as a doc. Hit a decent number like 2-4 mil and then cut back to part time. And we can do fun part time like a few months of work and a few months of traveling that way you basically make your burn and your investments snow ball. And you can run that life for 10-20 years with very little stress and a ton of enjoyment and then magically your investment have grown 2-4x and now you’re sitting at a full fire number

I would say hit your game over numbers then go to PT few years to make sure you don't hit a nice market correction. Then work is fully optional and fun when you don't need it for any financial reason.

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[psychmd03]

I would say hit your game over numbers then go to PT few years to make sure you don't hit a nice market correction. Then work is fully optional and fun when you don't need it for any financial reason.

I personally agree. Psychologically I just wouldn’t be able to handle hitting a bit under and cruising on halftime basically covering yearly expenses plus maybe a little. But, my cold rational brain, can mathematically make the argument that it makes sense to do

 

[finalpsychyear]

I personally agree. Psychologically I just wouldn’t be able to handle hitting a bit under and cruising on halftime basically covering yearly expenses plus maybe a little. But, my cold rational brain, can mathematically make the argument that it makes sense to do

Yeah it's not just the number but when u reach them. 5m today vs 2034 is night and day.

 

[Candidate2017]

We'd like to be able travel and go out to dinner fairly regularly but prices are still crazy high. Went out to Maggiano's for dinner last night and dropped almost $200 on 2 adults and a kid after tip and one drink. Even fast-food like places are getting ridiculous.

Bro what are you eating at Maggiano's? Both get steak, both get an appetizer, both get desserts, their most expensive drinks and do a 25% tip? An average entree there is like 25-30 bucks, kids meal is 10 bucks, even if drinks were 15 bucks each (which they aren't there) you're still <100 before the tip.

Mother's day special. 2 apps, 2 pasta dishes, 2 meat entrees, 2 deserts was $55/person, plus kids meal was around $15 and same for the drink. $30 tip (~20%) put us at $180ish after tax. I guess not "almost $200", but pretty close.

OP, listen to me:

There's a reason why the discussion I quoted above takes place in a psychiatry forum. There's almost no medical specialty that ends in -ology that cares about the rise in fast food prices or thinks $200 for an entire family dinner is nuts (other than specialties that start with endocrin-, geront-, neur-, or hypenated with pediatric-).

 

[finalpsychyear]

OP, listen to me:

There's a reason why the discussion I quoted above takes place in a psychiatry forum. There's almost no medical specialty that ends in -ology that cares about the rise in fast food prices or thinks $200 for an entire family dinner is nuts (other than specialties that start with endocrin-, geront-, neur-, or hypenated with pediatric-).

couldn't have said it better.

End of thread.

 

[Stagg737]

Because real life is not as pretty. I can only say about where I do residency and regarding people that have been graduating here. Most jobs are 250k for 40h a week, and a big chunk of them have no-competes. You can't get 2 jobs that are Mon-Fri 8-4 for example. Not every job is come and go as you please, so it may be harder to put them together. Maybe everyone graduating at my program is not good at finding jobs, but seems unlikely.

So if you are looking for >400k year, you have two options:
- Do psych, hope to get multiple jobs or open your own practice and maybe make that in a few years
- Do a high paying specialty/IM fellow and simply say yes to a job that pays that

I am not saying don't do psych, I am saying that if goal is to make 400k, it is much safer to do something else. Do gas/rads and you should have a hard time finding something that pays less than 400k.

Where are you at (general region)? Because I see you post about how low jobs around you pay a lot but I get e-mails from recruiters for jobs well over $250k all the time from west coast, midwest, south, SE, and NE pretty frequently.

This...seems very unlikely even at very HCOL Stanford or UCLA. Can anyone find a posted academic psychiatry position that is even within $50k of this?

I mean, I doubt you're going to find academic jobs posting much higher than $300k, but I can assure you they're out there. I have colleagues where I'm at clearing $300k easily and one probably clearing $500k. I also know another poster on here clears $400k in another part of the country. I agree it's not common, but it exists.

OP, listen to me:

There's a reason why the discussion I quoted above takes place in a psychiatry forum. There's almost no medical specialty that ends in -ology that cares about the rise in fast food prices or thinks $200 for an entire family dinner is nuts (other than specialties that start with endocrin-, geront-, neur-, or hypenated with pediatric-).

Eh, I usually whine about this with the anesthesiologists during ECT. It's not because I'm a psychiatrist, it's because I'm OCPD, lol. Also, it was near $200 for basically 2 adults at a pseudo-nice chain restaurant. $200 for a family of 4+ at a nice-ish restaurant or at a legit nice restaurant for a date night is completely understandable. I'm comparing to where prices were 5 years ago when I could go to the same restaurants and literally pay 30% less for our meals.

 

[Merovinge]

Eh, I usually whine about this with the anesthesiologists during ECT. It's not because I'm a psychiatrist, it's because I'm OCPD, lol. Also, it was near $200 for basically 2 adults at a pseudo-nice chain restaurant. $200 for a family of 4+ at a nice-ish restaurant or at a legit nice restaurant for a date night is completely understandable. I'm comparing to where prices were 5 years ago when I could go to the same restaurants and literally pay 30% less for our meals.

I avoid basically all the chains (except small local chains) near me for this very reason. I have found several of the local 1 location or small local chains to have had significantly less price inflation. I can eat like a king at our local BBQ restaurant for 2 adults, 1 child for $28 bucks with a 10% tip (served cafeteria style). We eat a whole lime chicken at Whole Foods, get the hot bar food for the kiddo, and 2 very high quality draft beers for under $30 at Whole Foods. Our local Thai, Chinese, Indian, and Mediterranean restaurants are all only up about 10-15% since pre COVID (and the food is way better than the big chains).

 

[Psychapplicant133]

After everything said in this thread it seems like $360k working slightly harder than usual (ie two jobs) or in a less desirable location is very doable. And then $300k after saving a bit in an IP/non-academic setting is also more than reasonable

 

[finalpsychyear]

After everything said in this thread it seems like $360k working slightly harder than usual (ie two jobs) or in a less desirable location is very doable. And then $300k after saving a bit in an IP/non-academic setting is also more than reasonable

Expect that number to be very similar in nominal terms by 2030 but with less purchasing power than today.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I avoid basically all the chains (except small local chains) near me for this very reason. I have found several of the local 1 location or small local chains to have had significantly less price inflation. I can eat like a king at our local BBQ restaurant for 2 adults, 1 child for $28 bucks with a 10% tip (served cafeteria style). We eat a whole lime chicken at Whole Foods, get the hot bar food for the kiddo, and 2 very high quality draft beers for under $30 at Whole Foods. Our local Thai, Chinese, Indian, and Mediterranean restaurants are all only up about 10-15% since pre COVID (and the food is way better than the big chains).

I only visit chains when someone gives me a giftcard to like olive garden or red lobster. Cheesecake factory actually makes most of its food fresh apparently. Chipotle and pho are staples in my diet.

 

[sloh]

I avoid basically all the chains (except small local chains) near me for this very reason. I have found several of the local 1 location or small local chains to have had significantly less price inflation. I can eat like a king at our local BBQ restaurant for 2 adults, 1 child for $28 bucks with a 10% tip (served cafeteria style). We eat a whole lime chicken at Whole Foods, get the hot bar food for the kiddo, and 2 very high quality draft beers for under $30 at Whole Foods. Our local Thai, Chinese, Indian, and Mediterranean restaurants are all only up about 10-15% since pre COVID (and the food is way better than the big chains).

I hear the Whole Foods hot bar food is a minefield of really questionable food hygiene practices. That said, I think Whole Foods has the best tres leches cake.

 

[clausewitz2]

I only visit chains when someone gives me a giftcard to like olive garden or red lobster. Cheesecake factory actually makes most of its food fresh apparently. Chipotle and pho are staples in my diet.

There is the whole 'your money is going to fund a weird remnant cult from the 70s' thing but they seem reasonably harmless as cults go.

 

[sloh]

I only visit chains when someone gives me a giftcard to like olive garden or red lobster. Cheesecake factory actually makes most of its food fresh apparently. Chipotle and pho are staples in my diet.

Worth it to eat at Cheesecake Factory just for their pumpernickel bread. I will die on this hill haha.

 

[Psychapplicant133]

Expect that number to be very similar in nominal terms by 2030 but with less purchasing power than today.

I dont think I can do much other than just stay the course though. If my financial goals are met today by going psych the choices are either do psych and be content but not quite as rich as I would like vs doing a specialty I dont like the day to day for more pay because of the US economic situation which I feel like is worse than being poorer

 

[finalpsychyear]

I dont think I can do much other than just stay the course though. If my financial goals are met today by going psych the choices are either do psych and be content but not quite as rich as I would like vs doing a specialty I dont like the day to day for more pay because of the US economic situation which I feel like is worse than being poorer

If i were a med student RIGHT NOW i would no questions asked be doing something procedural and be somewhat more protected from mid levels. If you dont have the scores to get into those other fields thats another story. Pretty much everyone with lifestyle and money and high scores give high considerations to go in the ROAD specialties. Those who are lured by passion primarily choose fields mostly based on that.

I went into psych being ok that i would likely always be in the 200-250 range bc the lifestyle/interest meant more to me than $.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Worth it to eat at Cheesecake Factory just for their pumpernickel bread. I will die on this hill haha.

I always get dirty looks when i tell the waiter before they bring it out that I want only that bread so twice as much. Bonus if they are nice and bring it fresh and hot. Might be the best part of the whole place next to the seaonal pumpkin pecan cheesecake

 

[clozareal]

If i were a med student RIGHT NOW i would no questions asked be doing something procedural and be somewhat more protected from mid levels. If you dont have the scores to get into those other fields thats another story. Pretty much everyone with lifestyle and money and high scores give high considerations to go in the ROAD specialties. Those who are lured by passion primarily choose fields mostly based on that.

I went into psych being ok that i would likely always be in the 200-250 range bc the lifestyle/interest meant more to me than $.

You're joking if you think procedures are protected from midlevels.

I would choose psychiatry over and over again. The lifestyle, autonomy in having a private practice, and pay per hour worked, and lower liability risk is much better in my opinion. I'm not even talking about the intellectual satisfaction from topics in mental health, including psychotherapy.

$300k for working 40 hours is great for most people. I work half as much, have perpetual 3 day weekends, and get paid more than that in my area. Anesthesiologists, surgeons, etc get paid $400-500k for working 60+ hours per week including weekends and taking night call. No thanks.

 

[thelastpsych]

Expect that number to be very similar in nominal terms by 2030 but with less purchasing power than today.

I think specialties that generate more revenue for the hospital (surgeons, proceduralists, ...) can have more purchasing power in terms of demanding better salaries, but the general thread in the US is inflation eroding more and more salaries, with an even higher concentration of capital in fewer hands.

 

[comp1]

It seems to me, in a lot of cases, psychiatrists earn a good deal more than surgeons per hour worked.

 

[Psychapplicant133]

The lifestyle, autonomy in having a private practice, and pay per hour worked, and lower liability risk is much better in my opinion. I'm not even talking about the intellectual satisfaction from topics in mental health, including psychotherapy.

$300k for working 40 hours is great for most people. I work half as much, have perpetual 3 day weekends, and get paid more than that in my area. Anesthesiologists, surgeons, etc get paid $400-500k for working 60+ hours per week including weekends and taking night call. No thanks.

This is exactly how I see it as well now

 

[Splenda88]

Where are you at (general region)? Because I see you post about how low jobs around you pay a lot but I get e-mails from recruiters for jobs well over $250k all the time from west coast, midwest, south, SE, and NE pretty frequently.


I mean, I doubt you're going to find academic jobs posting much higher than $300k, but I can assure you they're out there. I have colleagues where I'm at clearing $300k easily and one probably clearing $500k. I also know another poster on here clears $400k in another part of the country. I agree it's not common, but it exists.


Eh, I usually whine about this with the anesthesiologists during ECT. It's not because I'm a psychiatrist, it's because I'm OCPD, lol. Also, it was near $200 for basically 2 adults at a pseudo-nice chain restaurant. $200 for a family of 4+ at a nice-ish restaurant or at a legit nice restaurant for a date night is completely understandable. I'm comparing to where prices were 5 years ago when I could go to the same restaurants and literally pay 30% less for our meals.

That happened to me last week. We (family of 4) went to Red Lobster and the bill was $210 including tips. 5 years ago, that would have been $150 tips.

But I can't complain because my net worth has more than double in the past 2 1/2 years.

 

[AD04]

any advice on how to succeed like you did? i'd love to hear more and implement your strategies.

I'm not going to share my edges but I can give you a general framework on how to develop your own. After all, discovery for yourself results in brief spurts of happiness in life. At least it was for me. Let me know if that is something you're interested in. Because if there is no interest, I'm not going to waste my time typing it out.

 

[Stagg737]

I think specialties that generate more revenue for the hospital (surgeons, proceduralists, ...) can have more purchasing power in terms of demanding better salaries, but the general thread in the US is inflation eroding more and more salaries, with an even higher concentration of capital in fewer hands.

This is an important point to keep in mind as well. I see plenty of places offering decent salaries, but psych will never be derm or ortho. However, it is far easier to open your own shop in psych than pretty much any other field of medicine and it is not hard to clear $300k at all once you have a full PP. The only question is how long will it take to get that practice off the ground and how much are you able to get from insurances or cash rates.

 

[octopuszebra]

I think people in this thread might not be factoring in marginal tax rates as much as they should be. If you can have a chiller residency, work less, but make less money, this option might make more sense once you consider marginal taxes, because as you make more money, a higher percentage gets taken away with taxes. Yeah the other person might make $400k and you make $300k, and it might feel like there's a lot more you could do with that money, but if you remember that close to half of that $100k difference goes to taxes, it doesn't seem as obviously worth it. And when I look at things like the political climate and the national debt, taxes don't seem likely to go down anytime soon for earnings in this tax bracket. If anything, they will probably go up.

But maybe I'm missing something here.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I think people in this thread might not be factoring in marginal tax rates as much as they should be. If you can have a chiller residency, work less, but make less money, this option might make more sense once you consider marginal taxes, because as you make more money, a higher percentage gets taken away with taxes. Yeah the other person might make $400k and you make $300k, and it might feel like there's a lot more you could do with that money, but if you remember that close to half of that $100k difference goes to taxes, it doesn't seem as obviously worth it. And when I look at things like the political climate and the national debt, taxes don't seem likely to go down anytime soon for earnings in this tax bracket. If anything, they will probably go up.

But maybe I'm missing something here.

Nah bro. I just ran the calculations. That extra 100 you'd pay 32 tax and keep 68. 400 is probably a sweet spot in taxes for folks who cant take deductions. Its even less in a no state income state.

 

[jbomba]

Nah bro. I just ran the calculations. That extra 100 you'd pay 32 tax and keep 68. 400 is probably a sweet spot in taxes for folks who cant take deductions. Its even less in a no state income state.

The key to making money, and I think in psychiatry in particular, is to take multiple 1099 gigs. This way you can take deductions easily. You can also stack a couple of these jobs in the same day if they are the right set up. I have a relatively chill ER tele gig which I tack this on to my inpatient day. These days Ill earn about 4700/day. I wrap up my inpatients by 1030/11 and then chill at home and see consults as they come in. Definitely still have time for gym, dinner w fam, etc.

If im feeling particularly motivated I'll schedule a few outpatients and push total daily earning to well over 5g. 5 of these days a month and you're already at 300k a year.

 

[zenmedic]

The key to making money, and I think in psychiatry in particular, is to take multiple 1099 gigs. This way you can take deductions easily. You can also stack a couple of these jobs in the same day if they are the right set up. I have a relatively chill ER tele gig which I tack this on to my inpatient day. These days Ill earn about 4700/day. I wrap up my inpatients by 1030/11 and then chill at home and see consults as they come in. Definitely still have time for gym, dinner w fam, etc.

If im feeling particularly motivated I'll schedule a few outpatients and push total daily earning to well over 5g. 5 of these days a month and you're already at 300k a year.

Generally speaking what is better financially, having a base W2 job with benefits + 1099 side gigs or pure 1099 gigs with no W2 job?

 

[finalpsychyear]

The key to making money, and I think in psychiatry in particular, is to take multiple 1099 gigs. This way you can take deductions easily. You can also stack a couple of these jobs in the same day if they are the right set up. I have a relatively chill ER tele gig which I tack this on to my inpatient day. These days Ill earn about 4700/day. I wrap up my inpatients by 1030/11 and then chill at home and see consults as they come in. Definitely still have time for gym, dinner w fam, etc.

If im feeling particularly motivated I'll schedule a few outpatients and push total daily earning to well over 5g. 5 of these days a month and you're already at 300k a year.

Agree with the above that doing so will help generate the most post tax money. In terms of what you do after that depends on timeline. If one wants to fat fire asap then living below your means and limiting spending to a reasonable degree and investing till it hurts is the key the first decade of attending hood. Few of my older colleagues tell me that by doing this early on their yearly investment income is very close to their salary. Now that's an incredible position to be in.

 

[sloh]

Generally speaking what is better financially, having a base W2 job with benefits + 1099 side gigs or pure 1099 gigs with no W2 job?

Depends how much you can generate with 1099 and dependents.

 

[Merovinge]

Agree with the above that doing so will help generate the most post tax money. In terms of what you do after that depends on timeline. If one wants to fat fire asap then living below your means and limiting spending to a reasonable degree and investing till it hurts is the key the first decade of attending hood. Few of my older colleagues tell me that by doing this early on their yearly investment income is very close to their salary. Now that's an incredible position to be in.

I will say yearly investment income becoming close to salary in the longest bull market (minus brief covid blip) in US history is making this unlikely to be the same carried forward. Now for those older attendings they will be set, but for younger folks you are very unlikely to get the last 15 years of the SandP repeating itself.

 

[psychmd03]

This is 100% true imo. I almost did a procedural speciality but fell into love with psych. I figured meh 30-35 hrs a week for 250-300 is not bad. Now I easily out earn any surgical specialty per hour. And do better annually than almost all unless they are full partner with a large ownership of a surgical center

 

[Splenda88]

I will say yearly investment income becoming close to salary in the longest bull market (minus brief covid blip) in US history is making this unlikely to be the same carried forward. Now for those older attendings they will be set, but for younger folks you are very unlikely to get the last 15 years of the SandP repeating itself.

You never know. If the fed keeps printing money, we might do well because printing money along low interest rate tend to disproportionately benefit the top 3% (mostly the top 0.1%)

 

[jbomba]

Agree with the above that doing so will help generate the most post tax money. In terms of what you do after that depends on timeline. If one wants to fat fire asap then living below your means and limiting spending to a reasonable degree and investing till it hurts is the key the first decade of attending hood. Few of my older colleagues tell me that by doing this early on their yearly investment income is very close to their salary. Now that's an incredible position to be in.

I think we need to consider what's the cost of this though; giving up experiences in your 30s that you will never get back. Sure you could always go to Australia when you're 43 but it's not going to be the same. Just as backpacking around Europe when you're 23 is a much different experience than at 33. These fat fire folks, at times, don't see like they're acknowledging the very real life experiences they are forgoing forever by pursuing this lifestyle..

 

[jbomba]

This is 100% true imo. I almost did a procedural speciality but fell into love with psych. I figured meh 30-35 hrs a week for 250-300 is not bad. Now I easily out earn any surgical specialty per hour. And do better annually than almost all unless they are full partner with a large ownership of a surgical center

Good for you..and same here as well. There's so much variability in psych jobs that's it's not hard to patch things together.
Of my med school friends i outearn all of them and have a very reasonable work load with less physically taxing hours and 6-8 weeks off a year.

 

[J ROD]

Southeast. can make that much but will have to see patients and generate wRVU. Had set up where I saw about 25 inpatient a day. NP did notes and I billed. Then saw another 5-10 in ED and medical floors as consults. So about 30-35 a day. But only did the new consults notes myself. Made 575-625 K each year.

Took me a year to find a chill outpatient gig - 315K base potential to make 400-450K if I see about 20 patients per day. Both W2. Takes time to and getting to know area you work in to find the better places to work and hopefully pay. Much better mix of patients. More commercial insurance than medicare/medicaid. But still non-profit.

35-40 hrs per week. Inpatient gig had a weekend every 5-6 weeks.

 

[brazilianpsych]

Southeast. can make that much but will have to see patients and generate wRVU. Had set up where I saw about 25 inpatient a day. NP did notes and I billed. Then saw another 5-10 in ED and medical floors as consults. So about 30-35 a day. But only did the new consults notes myself. Made 575-625 K each year.

Took me a year to find a chill outpatient gig - 315K base potential to make 400-450K if I see about 20 patients per day. Both W2. Takes time to and getting to know area you work in to find the better places to work and hopefully pay. Much better mix of patients. More commercial insurance than medicare/medicaid. But still non-profit.

35-40 hrs per week. Inpatient gig had a weekend every 5-6 weeks.

Those are both really good. What region? Is that the dream land of opportunitie - Midwest?

 

[J ROD]

Southeast. But I have gotten job offers from Midwest, Wyoming, Montana. 300 K +

 

[thelastpsych]

I mean of course this makes sense. Lots of folks get raised in xyz way and end up being antixyz. We see ebbs and flows with generations directly related to this effect. Because our cities/lives are not setup to have great access to locally sourced, reasonably grown food (like in France or Italy), there are plenty of people who do yearn for that.

I disagree with most non-psychiatric things Sushi says, but for someone who is introverted, why not spend your days living in healthy manner and enjoying a self-sustaining lifestyle? I would rather retire in a medium size European city or somewhere tropical but I can certainly see the appeal for living off the grid.

I think this is a valid lifestyle, as good as any, and probably better than living in the typical american 'city' (i.e concrete hellscapes with a completely car-centric infrastructure, and copy and pasted endless suburbia). I was just commenting that europeans find this obsession with self-sufficiency, prepping, surviving in the woods, etc quite funny, and have a much more moderate view of things, probably because the urban dwellings are not so alienating, and as such, don't pull that extremely to the other side.

 

[vanfanal]

You're joking if you think procedures are protected from midlevels.

I would choose psychiatry over and over again. The lifestyle, autonomy in having a private practice, and pay per hour worked, and lower liability risk is much better in my opinion. I'm not even talking about the intellectual satisfaction from topics in mental health, including psychotherapy.

$300k for working 40 hours is great for most people. I work half as much, have perpetual 3 day weekends, and get paid more than that in my area. Anesthesiologists, surgeons, etc get paid $400-500k for working 60+ hours per week including weekends and taking night call. No thanks.

If i were a med student RIGHT NOW i would no questions asked be doing something procedural and be somewhat more protected from mid levels. If you dont have the scores to get into those other fields thats another story. Pretty much everyone with lifestyle and money and high scores give high considerations to go in the ROAD specialties. Those who are lured by passion primarily choose fields mostly based on that.

I went into psych being ok that i would likely always be in the 200-250 range bc the lifestyle/interest meant more to me than $.

An interesting dichotomy that reflects my own personal conflicting ideas. I believe the latter but want to believe the former. But perhaps it’s a matter of exposure to practice opportunities that show the former is possible, though I guess the question is how niche and how common.

I do feel that the procedural specialties are “safer”. They generate more for the hospital and so have more clout. Opt centres generate facility and other ancillary fees as an additional source of revenue; I suspect that why our GI docs regularly refer for opt rather than inpt scopes. Cards always orders echos. Derm is derm. Neuro never see someone without an EKG or EEG; in fact I heard that hospitals will subsidise neuro salaries because of all the scans they order. Procedures are seen are more niche and complex, so right now mostly only being done by MDs. In psych we share our space now with NPs and SWs; prescribing and therapy are seen as things that really anyone with a diploma and a license that affords them can do. And now even GI and anaesthesia running ketamine clinics.

 

[Cath Up]

An interesting dichotomy that reflects my own personal conflicting ideas. I believe the latter but want to believe the former. But perhaps it’s a matter of exposure to practice opportunities that show the former is possible, though I guess the question is how niche and how common.

I do feel that the procedural specialties are “safer”. They generate more for the hospital and so have more clout. Opt centres generate facility and other ancillary fees as an additional source of revenue; I suspect that why our GI docs regularly refer for opt rather than inpt scopes. Cards always orders echos. Derm is derm. Neuro never see someone without an EKG or EEG; in fact I heard that hospitals will subsidise neuro salaries because of all the scans they order. Procedures are seen are more niche and complex, so right now mostly only being done by MDs. In psych we share our space now with NPs and SWs; prescribing and therapy are seen as things that really anyone with a diploma and a license that affords them can do. And now even GI and anaesthesia running ketamine clinics.

Reasonable points, though I'll point out re: the bolded that bad prescribing and bad therapy is abundant and actual training seems to make a real, feel-able difference that causes people to switch to competent clinicians in a way that is not seen or is not possible in EM/FM/anesthesia/peds etc. Maybe not as much as one would like, but it seems at least a little protective to me.

 

[clozareal]

Reasonable points, though I'll point out re: the bolded that bad prescribing and bad therapy is abundant and actual training seems to make a real, feel-able difference that causes people to switch to competent clinicians in a way that is not seen or is not possible in EM/FM/anesthesia/peds etc. Maybe not as much as one would like, but it seems at least a little protective to me.

Agreed. Patients flee bad therapists and psychiatrists. Can they do it? Yes. Do some people stick with them? Sure. Is there enough supply to meet the demand? Hell no.

 

[comp1]

We are orders of magnitude off from the number of providers (of all types) needed. For there to be an existential threat, the training really has to be infinitely scalable. You should be a great deal more concerned about AI coming for your job than NPs.

 

[Yale Medicine]

That coast fire life is so easy as a doc. Hit a decent number like 2-4 mil and then cut back to part time. And we can do fun part time like a few months of work and a few months of traveling that way you basically make your burn and your investments snow ball. And you can run that life for 10-20 years with very little stress and a ton of enjoyment and then magically your investment have grown 2-4x and now you’re sitting at a full fire number

When you learn how to compound your invesments, salary becomes relatively unimportant. I compound on most days in range of 0.3% to 1% daily with a very conservative win rate and risk/reward ratio scalping $500 to $1Mill per trade.

 

[littlefred]

When you learn how to compound your invesments, salary becomes relatively unimportant. I compound on most days in range of 0.3% to 1% daily with a very conservative win rate and risk/reward ratio scalping $500 to $1Mill per trade.

I can understand the words from this post, but can't make any sense to it.

Wish I was more financially literate.

 

[Merovinge]

I can understand the words from this post, but can't make any sense to it.

Wish I was more financially literate.

You aren't actually missing anything. Some people in finance strongly believe they have a secret to generate outsized returns, largely based on early life success from certain "strategies". The data is compelling that they are incorrect but a number of cognitive biases ensure they will continue to propagate. It's actually comical at this point for me to hear about people who think that their options trading is somehow free money that offers alpha because of their skill. As though all the best PhD's for MIT/Cal Tech with the largest teams and most powerful compute known to mankind don't know this one little secret.

Prof G (NYU Stern professor who has started and exited several businesses to the tune of significant 8 figures) was even talking about how he thought at age 58 he had it figured out. Lost 15 mill shorting the market last year. He just wrote a book advising people to just buy index funds and not be dumb with their money.

That said financial literacy is important for every doctor. I would strongly recommend starting with the White Coat Investor, he has a few books that are worth the $10-15 to get started. Podcast is good but you need a baseline of knowledge to be worth it. There are lots of other options as you get further into the space (e.g. Rational Reminder) where you can hear from noble prize winning economists discuss their academic research. If anyone wants to chat about how to get started reasonably or basic questions I am happy to help *not a financial planner/just for educational purposes only*.

 

[thelastpsych]

I can understand the words from this post, but can't make any sense to it.

Wish I was more financially literate.

This person is basically taking WAY more risk than is realized to get those returns, and is using tools that should NOT be used by retail investors such as options trading and leverage to maximize gains. It usually ends quite badly. Even institutional investors (hedge fund managers and such) often blow up or suffer heavy lossess using these, aka Michael Burry having to close a shorting position recently and losing tens of millions in the process.

Just stick to low-maintenance broad based index funds and monthly investing and you'll be rich in 30 years.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

You aren't actually missing anything. Some people in finance strongly believe they have a secret to generate outsized returns, largely based on early life success from certain "strategies". The data is compelling that they are incorrect but a number of cognitive biases ensure they will continue to propagate. It's actually comical at this point for me to hear about people who think that their options trading is somehow free money that offers alpha because of their skill. As though all the best PhD's for MIT/Cal Tech with the largest teams and most powerful compute known to mankind don't know this one little secret.

Yeah this is straight up "I hang out on wallstreetbets all day, look at these fancy things I can do in robinhood" type talk.

 

[TexasPhysician]

You aren't actually missing anything. Some people in finance strongly believe they have a secret to generate outsized returns, largely based on early life success from certain "strategies". The data is compelling that they are incorrect but a number of cognitive biases ensure they will continue to propagate. It's actually comical at this point for me to hear about people who think that their options trading is somehow free money that offers alpha because of their skill. As though all the best PhD's for MIT/Cal Tech with the largest teams and most powerful compute known to mankind don't know this one little secret.

Prof G (NYU Stern professor who has started and exited several businesses to the tune of significant 8 figures) was even talking about how he thought at age 58 he had it figured out. Lost 15 mill shorting the market last year. He just wrote a book advising people to just buy index funds and not be dumb with their money.

That said financial literacy is important for every doctor. I would strongly recommend starting with the White Coat Investor, he has a few books that are worth the $10-15 to get started. Podcast is good but you need a baseline of knowledge to be worth it. There are lots of other options as you get further into the space (e.g. Rational Reminder) where you can hear from noble prize winning economists discuss their academic research. If anyone wants to chat about how to get started reasonably or basic questions I am happy to help *not a financial planner/just for educational purposes only*.

Keep in mind that WCI doesn’t follow the advise in his books. He allows many guest posts that are sales related and not a good investment strategy.

If you want to follow basic advise, you just buy large ETF’s and sit on them. Otherwise you need to use your brain to develop skills in another area.

 

[Stagg737]

Keep in mind that WCI doesn’t follow the advise in his books. He allows many guest posts that are sales related and not a good investment strategy.

If you want to follow basic advise, you just buy large ETF’s and sit on them. Otherwise you need to use your brain to develop skills in another area.

I think you're mixing up his blog with his actual book. His original book is an excellent "Finances for Dummies" type of read for physicians. Very basic and straightforward information to help teach basic financial literacy to physicians. His blog is much more hit or miss and there was even a recent article on his own site about his most controversial articles (part 3, lol).

He actually did follow a good amount of his own advice early on and attributes that to becoming a millionaire in his late 30's. Idk everything he does now, but the book is still relevant for physicians who are financially clueless.

 

[Merovinge]

Keep in mind that WCI doesn’t follow the advise in his books. He allows many guest posts that are sales related and not a good investment strategy.

If you want to follow basic advise, you just buy large ETF’s and sit on them. Otherwise you need to use your brain to develop skills in another area.

I don't disagree the monetization of his work has lead to some less than great things. I personally find private real estate ripe for bad outcomes and wildly unnecessary for people with the income that an MD has but certainly an argument can be made for it. But his basic books are really a great starting spot.