How hard is it to get a GP residency in Canada as Canadian from an Irish med school?

[EdmontonOilers]

Hi

Im a Canadian who decided go to Ireland for medical school. Im in my second year here at UCD and Im in my early 20’s. Im starting to think ahead towards whether or not Im going to try to focus my energies on trying to get a GP residency in Canada or a GP or IM residency in the US. I want to decided between one country or the other now because it will influence where I will decide to do my electives during the summer (in Canada or the US) and which exams Im going to write. I don’t feel like I have time to prepare strong applications to both countries as I have only so many summers to do electives and so much time to study properly for exams. At this point I would much rather practice as a GP in Canada than practice in the US. One of the reasons for this is because of the visa issues I would have to deal with if I pursued a residency in the US on a J-1 (difficult and stressful process). However, Im worried that its much harder to obtain a GP residency in Canada than a GP or IM residency in the States. Upper years at my school are confident that a UCD graduate can get a GP residency in Canada (and many of them have been) but I get the general impression from researching the web that it isnt even worth an IMG’s time to apply for a residency in Canada. I am just hearing that it’s so hard and you’re chances arent that good. Is it really an unrealistic goal for a Candian IMG or did I just stumble on some old or biased sources? Any websites or sources I can read to get reliable info on this? If this is the case then I don’t want to waste my time and energy focusing on trying to get a residency in Canada but go for the US. So my question is, does anybody know if its much harder for a Canadian Irish grad to get a GP residency in Canada vs. a GP or IM residency in the US on a J-1 visa. Its really bothering me and I want to make a decision soon. Thanks so much guys.

I find this website very helpful. Does anyone know of any other good websites with medical forums that would be helpful for a Canadian studying at an Irish medical school.

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[Jocks]

Hi

Im a Canadian who decided go to Ireland for medical school. Im in my second year here at UCD and Im in my early 20’s. Im starting to think ahead towards whether or not Im going to try to focus my energies on trying to get a GP residency in Canada or a GP or IM residency in the US. I want to decided between one country or the other now because it will influence where I will decide to do my electives during the summer (in Canada or the US) and which exams Im going to write. I don’t feel like I have time to prepare strong applications to both countries as I have only so many summers to do electives and so much time to study properly for exams. At this point I would much rather practice as a GP in Canada than practice in the US. One of the reasons for this is because of the visa issues I would have to deal with if I pursued a residency in the US on a J-1 (difficult and stressful process). However, Im worried that its much harder to obtain a GP residency in Canada than a GP or IM residency in the States. Upper years at my school are confident that a UCD graduate can get a GP residency in Canada (and many of them have been) but I get the general impression from researching the web that it isnt even worth an IMG’s time to apply for a residency in Canada. I am just hearing that it’s so hard and you’re chances arent that good. Is it really an unrealistic goal for a Candian IMG or did I just stumble on some old or biased sources? Any websites or sources I can read to get reliable info on this? If this is the case then I don’t want to waste my time and energy focusing on trying to get a residency in Canada but go for the US. So my question is, does anybody know if its much harder for a Canadian Irish grad to get a GP residency in Canada vs. a GP or IM residency in the US on a J-1 visa. Its really bothering me and I want to make a decision soon. Thanks so much guys.

I find this website very helpful. Does anyone know of any other good websites with medical forums that would be helpful for a Canadian studying at an Irish medical school.

Hey there,

Ok, so I can't say I'm anywhere near an expert on this subject but I've done a little bit of research into this. There are many hospitals in the states that are willing to sponsor H1B visas, which will allow you to apply for a greencard during your residency. A partial list is shown in the link below:

http://www.valuemd.com/articles-forum/40992-img-friendly-hospitals-list.html

As for GP in canada...just check out the number of GP spots that go unmatched even after the second round if carms!!!
For a little less statistical data and a little more personal, check out this article posted in the Canadian Family Practice Journal by a recent (ie 2 years ago) UCD grad.

http://www.cfpc.ca/cfp/2005/Oct/vol51-oct-college-2.asp

So cheer up! You have plenty of options!....again I'm no expert, but so far everything I've seen has been positive.

Oh, and btw I'm heading to UCD in September, just wondering how your experiences in first and second year have been?

Cheers,
Jocks

 

[Jamesmtl]

Thanks for the links Jocks, It is reassuring to see other Canadians in the same position. I too have accepted a spot at UCD for 2006. Mind you i haven't heard from them since a confirmatory email saying they received my transfer. Concerning returning to Canada for residency i know that it is a lot easier to return to Québec than anywhere else (à condition que vous parlez le francais un peu). I guess the real challenge is keeping my French up to the standards of OQLF while in Ireland for 5 YEARS!!

 

[EdmontonOilers]

Hey Jocks,

Thanks very much for your email. It was definately reassuring to read the link you sent. Hopefully trends will continue the way they are and I will have a good shot at a GP residency when I finish. I hear many positive things from upper years and articles on the web - its just that sometimes I come accross things on the web that suggest that getting a residency as a Canadian IMG in Canada is very difficult. Im going to look into this hard over the next few weeks and will post anything of importance that I find.

The H1-B is definately another option its just that no UCD grads seem to ever go for it because it entails taking an extra year as an intern in Dublin so that you have time to write the USMLE step 3. You need the step 3 to get this visa. The step 3 isnt that hard of an exam apparently. The problem is only a small proportion of residencies offer it in the states and apparently its very hard to get because so many IMGs want it.

So far I have really enjoyed my time here in Ireland. There are many Canadians and Americans in my class and they are all great people. The irish kids are really nice too. There is plenty to do in Dublin and its a fun city. The professors are good for the most part and all the upper years seem optomistic about UCD grads getting residencies when they finish. Everybody that I talk to says that all UCD grads obtain a residency somewhere when they finish.

I am definately happy about my choice to come here the only downfall is that I often wonder about my future and whether or not I will be able to practice in Canada.

Hope this helps.

Hey there,

Ok, so I can't say I'm anywhere near an expert on this subject but I've done a little bit of research into this. There are many hospitals in the states that are willing to sponsor H1B visas, which will allow you to apply for a greencard during your residency. A partial list is shown in the link below:

http://www.valuemd.com/articles-forum/40992-img-friendly-hospitals-list.html

As for GP in canada...just check out the number of GP spots that go unmatched even after the second round if carms!!!
For a little less statistical data and a little more personal, check out this article posted in the Canadian Family Practice Journal by a recent (ie 2 years ago) UCD grad.

http://www.cfpc.ca/cfp/2005/Oct/vol51-oct-college-2.asp

So cheer up! You have plenty of options!....again I'm no expert, but so far everything I've seen has been positive.

Oh, and btw I'm heading to UCD in September, just wondering how your experiences in first and second year have been?

Cheers,
Jocks

 

[Jocks]

Cheers go to Canucker for originally posting the CFP article.

 

[Arb]

I would definitely look into the H1-b visa and it's possible to take Step 3 before you graduate from medical school. At the moment there is no cap to the number of H1 visas that can be given but as you said, only a small fraction of programs will go through the trouble for an applicant and offer this visa. It is highly competitive.

From what I hear, a J1 visa isn't that hard to obtain at the moment but you never know. Also, in Ontario, they will equate the USMLE to the MCCQE(?the test that IMGs take) and take the years you've undergone in an American residency into account. However, if your plan is to practice medicine in the US, I would definitely not go on a J1 visa.

 

[Jammer]

I would definitely look into the H1-b visa and it's possible to take Step 3 before you graduate from medical school.

Wrong. You must graduate medical school to take the Step 3. See www.fsmb.org

Also, to get the H1B visa you need to pass the Step 3. As there are restrictions with the J1 visa, there are also restrictions with the H1B. That is something that you can look up. In my opinion, it isn't worth taking a year between medical school and residency just so that you can get the H1B visa, it's overrated. Also, those loans that you took to pay for your expensive education in Ireland and all the money that you invested will be accumulating even more interest. Doesn't seem like much while you're a student, but when you're a resident making about $40,000/year, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

There's nothing wrong with going to train on a J1 visa. Although very difficult, it is possible to get a waiver at the end of your training. If you need to go back to Canada for two years, you'll find something to do (i.e., fellowship, work). And, once you live in the US, you may not even like it here.

 

[Arb]

Oh that's right. I was just discussing that yesterday. I mean you can finish Step 3 before the July start date.

 

[ruffryder]

Also, in Ontario, they will equate the USMLE to the MCCQE(?the test that IMGs take) and take the years you've undergone in an American residency into account.

Hi guys, thanks for all the information so far. I just have a few more questions. Do you only need to take the MCCEE if you want to do residency in Canada? Also, does anyone know if they will equate the USMLE to the MCCQE in any other provinces of Canada?

If I have to return to Canada after doing a residency in the states, I don't mind, but I'd like to know if I can practice there without writing ANOTHER long standardized test..

Thanks.

 

[Arb]

Try the Canada forum. They had a long discussion on this. Most are wary of fast-track programs for IMGs for whatever reason.

 

[EB ObGyn]

Hi

Im a Canadian who decided go to Ireland for medical school. Im in my second year here at UCD and Im in my early 20’s. Im starting to think ahead towards whether or not Im going to try to focus my energies on trying to get a GP residency in Canada or a GP or IM residency in the US. I want to decided between one country or the other now because it will influence where I will decide to do my electives during the summer (in Canada or the US) and which exams Im going to write. I don’t feel like I have time to prepare strong applications to both countries as I have only so many summers to do electives and so much time to study properly for exams. At this point I would much rather practice as a GP in Canada than practice in the US. One of the reasons for this is because of the visa issues I would have to deal with if I pursued a residency in the US on a J-1 (difficult and stressful process). However, Im worried that its much harder to obtain a GP residency in Canada than a GP or IM residency in the States. Upper years at my school are confident that a UCD graduate can get a GP residency in Canada (and many of them have been) but I get the general impression from researching the web that it isnt even worth an IMG’s time to apply for a residency in Canada. I am just hearing that it’s so hard and you’re chances arent that good. Is it really an unrealistic goal for a Candian IMG or did I just stumble on some old or biased sources? Any websites or sources I can read to get reliable info on this? If this is the case then I don’t want to waste my time and energy focusing on trying to get a residency in Canada but go for the US. So my question is, does anybody know if its much harder for a Canadian Irish grad to get a GP residency in Canada vs. a GP or IM residency in the US on a J-1 visa. Its really bothering me and I want to make a decision soon. Thanks so much guys.

I find this website very helpful. Does anyone know of any other good websites with medical forums that would be helpful for a Canadian studying at an Irish medical school.

Hey Oiler,

As an upcoming U of A grad, I can pretty much assure you that the current situtation makes it fairly easy for international medical graduates such are yourself to get into a Canadian Family Medicine program... You could pretty much walk into the U of A's program (I'm assuming you're from Edmonton given the log-in name) as long as you sat your LMCC Part 1 in the spring before you graduate...

Other programs that are not difficult to obtain are Physiatry (Rehab Med), Psychiatry (getting a bit harder) and Community Medicine. I wouldn't bank on any other Royal College (5 year) programs, although once in a while an Optho or ObGyn spot sneaks into the mix in the second round...

From the 2 year family medicine program, you can take an extra 1 year and be certified for Emergency Medicine (and earn the same amount as a 5 year grad), get certified for Geriatrics or Palliative care, or get more experience in Women's Health (higher risk deliveries, abortions, D&Cs, Breast Cancer screening) which is always fianancially (and personally!!!) rewarding...


Hope that helps... I know plenty of people coming from the Middle East & Australia who have matched back here... Coming from a UK/English speaking school is also a HUGE benefit...

 

[sugababe81]

Hi guys, thanks for all the information so far. I just have a few more questions. Do you only need to take the MCCEE if you want to do residency in Canada? Also, does anyone know if they will equate the USMLE to the MCCQE in any other provinces of Canada?

If I have to return to Canada after doing a residency in the states, I don't mind, but I'd like to know if I can practice there without writing ANOTHER long standardized test..

Thanks.

You need to pass the MCCEE in order to get a J1 visa!!

 

[EdmontonOilers]

You need to pass the MCCEE in order to get a J1 visa!!

Yup. You definately need to pass the EE to get a J1 visa. There is so much you have to do for that visa. It is very daunting. You also need to return to Canada for 2 years (unless you get a J-1 waiver which is hard to get) and then apply back to the US. I have heard that you are not guaranteed a fellowship or anything when you come back to Canada for those two years and you are not guaranteed a job anywhere when you apply back to the US after those two years. It may take you several years of applying before you can get back to the US. I could be wrong but this is what upper years over here in Ireland say. The H1-B route doesnt seem to be a good solution since most residency programs wont sponsor you for this visa as it is time consuming and expensive for the program. No Canadians from any of the Irish schools try and get this visa that I know of. You also have to take a year off after your degree to pass the USMLE step 3 for the H1-B.

 

[roo]

Hi,

I am a UCD grad 2003. Completed FP residency 2005.

Items:
-------

-You will likely need the EE anyway for a lot of residency posts in Canada.

-The J1 visa is pretty routine to do up. Paperwork is always annoying, but it isn't much more than the other hoops of paperwork that need to be done.

-If you have a pulse, clean criminal record and appropriate credentials, you can get a US-residency in FP with about >99.5% chance. The US needs alot of FPs, and thus there is a lot of residency spots, but not enough people to fill them. Some residencies worry of the threat of losing funding for positions if the numbers stay down for too long. Hence when you walk in the door, with a Irish education, ample time off in summers/Christmas/spring break to build a CV that blows the competition out of the water, and a proper demeanor for FP, some places will have a contract out ready for you to sign outside the match.

Canada is a mixed bag based on numbers, but in the past, there was always some spots available. Irish trained, good record certainly puts at top of pile esp. with some ties to the area.

Reference:
------------

-There were 2 Canadians in the class who opted for FP. Each of us got a spot in Canada. One class member married an Irish girl and did intern and SHO there, and then when she had all her immigration papers, went to Canada for FP (Queens) in the most recent match (2006).

-There were 5 Irish-trained students in the FP residency of ~20 (and all five finished the program in good standing, 3 direct to private practice, 2 opted for 3rd year training). There are 2 Irish-trained in the year below, and I think 2 more in the year that was coming in when I left. The most recent year coming up unfortunately had no 2nd iteration spots available.