How failing CS affects your chances if you are an IMG

[docphd]

I failed CS once (took it for granted, did not study much) but did OK on step 1 (around 230).
I am hopeful to get at least 230 on my step 2 CK.
I will do CS after I finish my CK.
Just wanted to ask what are my chances of getting residency; I am interested in Family Medicine.
I am a Canadian citizen.

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[BDUS]

I know a US citizen IMG that had failed CS. It was a few years ago. She applied to FM and got a lot of interviews but didn't match. She got a spot in scramble.

 

[Phloston]

I know a US citizen IMG that had failed CS. It was a few years ago. She applied to FM and got a lot of interviews but didn't match. She got a spot in scramble.

No way to know whether that related to CS. Would have to see the applicant holistically.

 

[lordman]

Based on my experience mentoring several students here and there:
CS failure is considered a big red flag and will filter you out of most programs (especially, medicine and peds). However, there are applicants with CS failure and do match every year. How? Work on other things in your CV, build connections and target the low tier community programs. So it's very possible.

 

[cokebottle]

Why didn't you study? Frankly, other people who say they didn't study for CS are full of ****.

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

It isn't good but being Candian will help if your app gets past the filters.
What is your US visa status? Is English your first language?
Will you have US letters? Are you also doing CaRMS?

 

[BDUS]

Interesting that you say being Canadian will help him maybe you mean as oppose to being a citizen of another country overseas. It sure didn't help me. Not being US citizen and having to deal with J1 actually limited my options as a Canadian citizen.

 

[docphd]

It isn't good but being Candian will help if your app gets past the filters.
What is your US visa status? Is English your first language?
Will you have US letters? Are you also doing CaRMS?

My English is good; I got high rank on that part in CS.
I did my rotations in US so I would have US Letters.
I am also doing Carms but Canadian residency is not very easy to get into so I am relying more on US.

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

Yeah. I meant it as US MD > IMG from Anglophile country > other IMG in terms of the effect of failing CS.
And yes. The J1 can suck.

 

[docphd]

Based on my experience mentoring several students here and there:
CS failure is considered a big red flag and will filter you out of most programs (especially, medicine and peds). However, there are applicants with CS failure and do match every year. How? Work on other things in your CV, build connections and target the low tier community programs. So it's very possible.

Do you think having research background can help me? I have a Ph.D. lots of research publications. But these are not related to medicine.

Why didn't you study? Frankly, people who say they didn't study for CS if full of ****.

Trust me I am not proud of that. Most of my friends told me that it is very easy test and I should be fine. I wish I knew this before. I thought let me get this exam out of my way.

 

[BDUS]

People will say that about step 3 too but these are after all licensing exams and you should prepare. Take it as a wake up call and never have that attitude of just getting by. Always strive for excellence no matter what.

 

[cokebottle]

People will say that about step 3 too but these are after all licensing exams and you should prepare. Take it as a wake up call and never have that attitude of just getting by. Always strive for excellence no matter what.

arent you from the Office?

 

[BDUS]

Yes and also from my newer show The Mindy Project

 

[Phloston]

Why didn't you study? Frankly, other people who say they didn't study for CS are full of ****.

Would you say to a patient with a medical problem: "Why did you let this become so bad?"

 

[Phloston]

People will say that about step 3 too but these are after all licensing exams and you should prepare. Take it as a wake up call and never have that attitude of just getting by. Always strive for excellence no matter what.

Would agree heavily with this. It's quite disappointing to hear people talk about CS like it's a joke because it really isn't to be taken lightly. I have mine in May and am not looking forward to the "acting" that's involved, but will hopefully come off just empathetic enough to pass.

 

[notbobtrustme]

A CS failure + visa issues? You're a walking nightmare for many, many programs now.

You really shot yourself in the foot with that CS failure, which is basically an English language screen without the explicit requirement. Programs aren't going to look at why you failed CS, they'll just see the failure. Combined with the need for a J-1 visa and you're more of a liability than an asset to many programs.

I'm sure there are some FM programs desperate to fill their roster with bodies, but you really limited yourself with that CS failure.

 

[docphd]

A CS failure + visa issues? You're a walking nightmare for many, many programs now.

You really shot yourself in the foot with that CS failure, which is basically an English language screen without the explicit requirement. Programs aren't going to look at why you failed CS, they'll just see the failure. Combined with the need for a J-1 visa and you're more of a liability than an asset to many programs.

I'm sure there are some FM programs desperate to fill their roster with bodies, but you really limited yourself with that CS failure.

Are you saying this from some authenticated source or this is your own interpretation.

 

[CaliAtenza]

Are you saying this from some authenticated source or this is your own interpretation.

I mean its tough, but there are still 189 IM programs that you could apply to, according to matcharesident. I mean when the NBME makes this exam more difficult based on well, we will never know, and their goal is to fail more people arbitrarily, then what is the point of the exam? There was a huge discussion on here months ago about the CS and what the hell is going on with it now.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Are you saying this from some authenticated source or this is your own interpretation.

Observations. You have 2 red flags against you, a CS fail and visa issues. You really need to stand out for programs to take out over a US citizen IMG with no CS fails or an FMG with a green card and no failures.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Would agree heavily with this. It's quite disappointing to hear people talk about CS like it's a joke because it really isn't to be taken lightly. I have mine in May and am not looking forward to the "acting" that's involved, but will hopefully come off just empathetic enough to pass.

ya, it's a joke for US students but for IMGs/FMGs who aren't aware of the cultural and language issues, it's more of a challenge. Pretty much the only US grads who fail CS are those who fail to take it seriously or are sociopaths.

 

[BDUS]

Are you saying this from some authenticated source or this is your own interpretation.

Is this a surprise to you that having the visa requirement headache and failure works against you?
Move past it. What's done is done. Just change what you can.

 

[docphd]

Is this a surprise to you that having the visa requirement headache and failure works against you?
Move past it. What's done is done. Just change what you can.

I know these are negatives on my application but to that extent that I am a walking nightmare for the program directors? THAT is a surprise for me.

I just wanted to know my chances of getting residency from people who actually know the system. Not some random guesses from people who are like me but have cleared their CS and are feeling as if they got the chance to demoralize people.

 

[BDUS]

I know these are negatives on my application but to that extent that I am a walking nightmare for the program directors? THAT is a surprise for me.

I just wanted to know my chances of getting residency from people who actually know the system. Not some random guesses from people who are like me but have cleared their CS and are feeling as if they got the chance to demoralize people.

I'm sorry if you feel that way I wasn't trying to demoralize you. I'm leaving this thread now. Good luck.

 

[docphd]

I'm sorry if you feel that way I wasn't trying to demoralize you. I'm leaving this thread now. Good luck.

I was not hinting at you, I understand that you were trying to help me out.

But I was surprised at the people who could not answer politely to a simple question and were acting all big. If you see some of the answers above you will know who I am talking about.

I am also leaving this thread, its giving me anxiety.

Thanks all for the comments; these have motivated me to do even better in my future exams.

 

[Phloston]

ya, it's a joke for US students but for IMGs/FMGs who aren't aware of the cultural and language issues, it's more of a challenge. Pretty much the only US grads who fail CS are those who fail to take it seriously or are sociopaths.

Would disagree with this here. Plenty of US students prepare for and fail CS.

 

[Jorje286]

No one can answer the question except a PD and the answer will vary from a PD to another. The other thing you can do is to look at the statistics. Failing CS can bring down your chances by something like 40% if you're a non-US citizen IMG. If you have something stellar in your application and a demonstrated genuine interest then obviously your chances will go higher. Get Step 3 under your belt so then PDs will not have to worry about you failing another exam. Being a Canadian citizen rules out English as a factor (if you're not from Quebec). LORs can go a long away concerning your clinical and communication skills if they're really stellar. Many programs will probably not even bother with reading the rest of the application; some will be more open-minded. This test is a joke. You're asked to do 15k things in the space of 15 minutes which never occurs in an actual realistic setting; so really the key here is to practice in that very setting.

 

[docphd]

No one can answer the question except a PD and the answer will vary from a PD to another. The other thing you can do is to look at the statistics. Failing CS can bring down your chances by something like 40% if you're a non-US citizen IMG. If you have something stellar in your application and a demonstrated genuine interest then obviously your chances will go higher. Get Step 3 under your belt so then PDs will not have to worry about you failing another exam. Being a Canadian citizen rules out English as a factor (if you're not from Quebec). LORs can go a long away concerning your clinical and communication skills if they're really stellar. Many programs will probably not even bother with reading the rest of the application; some will be more open-minded. This test is a joke. You're asked to do 15k things in the space of 15 minutes which never occurs in an actual realistic setting; so really the key here is to practice in that very setting.

Thanks! That helps a lot!

 

[Tina Caleb]

I failed CS once (took it for granted, did not study much) but did OK on step 1 (around 230).
I am hopeful to get at least 230 on my step 2 CK.
I will do CS after I finish my CK.
Just wanted to ask what are my chances of getting residency; I am interested in Family Medicine.
I am a Canadian citizen.

Hey. Even tho this is an old post. I’m posting because i have a CS attempt and am freaking out. Can u please updates us on your journey ? Looking for hope

 

[Riseup2it]

Hey. Even tho this is an old post. I’m posting because i have a CS attempt and am freaking out. Can u please updates us on your journey ? Looking for hope

Long story short, I am a US IMG and I failed CS and passed it the second time. I was afraid that this was going to deter my chances of getting an interview when it came to application season.

I just wrapped up interviewing in the last month. I had a total of 8 interviews. My Step 1 and CK scores weren't that stellar but I did pass those in my first try. The point I am going to get across here is that failing CS won't deter you from getting interviews. Will it take you out of the race for some programs? Yes it will. However, do your research and you will find out a lot of programs will be willing to overlook it. The most important factor to keep in mind is to own up to your mistakes. It's ok to be honest and say you failed rather than making excuses.

No matter what field it is that you are interested in, do not lose hope. I will find out in March if I match, so I don't know what's going to happen. But I never thought I would have landed even one interview. Keep your head up and if you have questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[type12]

Long story short, I am a US IMG and I failed CS and passed it the second time. I was afraid that this was going to deter my chances of getting an interview when it came to application season.

I just wrapped up interviewing in the last month. I had a total of 8 interviews. My Step 1 and CK scores weren't that stellar but I did pass those in my first try. The point I am going to get across here is that failing CS won't deter you from getting interviews. Will it take you out of the race for some programs? Yes it will. However, do your research and you will find out a lot of programs will be willing to overlook it. The most important factor to keep in mind is to own up to your mistakes. It's ok to be honest and say you failed rather than making excuses.

No matter what field it is that you are interested in, do not lose hope. I will find out in March if I match, so I don't know what's going to happen. But I never thought I would have landed even one interview. Keep your head up and if you have questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

What specialty did you apply to?

 

[Riseup2it]

What specialty did you apply to?

I applied strictly to family medicine, which has been my specialty of choice to begin with. It worked out in the sense that FM is somewhat forgiving in terms of Step scores. I have other extra-curricular activities and involvement with community medicine events. I am not sure if that was a factor, but I was asked about those in almost all of my interviews. In terms of publication, I only have one.

 

[FutureMDiA]

I failed CS too.
Step 1 22×
Step 2 ck 22x
US IMG
what are my chances of matching in 2021 residency?

 

[myresidencyspot]

NON us img , carib student (canadian)
Failed cs 1 attempt, pass 2nd
Step 1 225
Step 2 228
Got my CS passing score end October, this year. No interviews super bummed out . Any hope for match next year?? Will taking step 3 help a lot next year?

 

[Lilyhopeless]

NON us img , carib student (canadian)
Failed cs 1 attempt, pass 2nd
Step 1 225
Step 2 228
Got my CS passing score end October, this year. No interviews super bummed out . Any hope for match next year?? Will taking step 3 help a lot next year?

First, I am so sorry to hear about your experience and it is really unfortunate.

From frequenting the forum, it seems to me that Step 3 will only marginally help. PD views that exam as an intern exam anyway so it is not high yield for them. The most that PDs will think about this exam is that they won't have to worry about you failing it during your intern year. With your score history, I am sure that you will pass step 3 but the risk remains that you can do badly on it. The benefit doesn't seem to outweigh the risk by much so, I would say, why tempt fate? Others might have different opinions.

I know you may not want to share it and it is perfectly fine but have you applied strategically this year? While you have big red flags, I am surprised that you would not get any interviews at all!

It would be better if you open another thread to ask for advice.

 

[myresidencyspot]

First, I am so sorry to hear about your experience and it is really unfortunate.

From frequenting the forum, it seems to me that Step 3 will only marginally help. PD views that exam as an intern exam anyway so it is not high yield for them. The most that PDs will think about this exam is that they won't have to worry about you failing it during your intern year. With your score history, I am sure that you will pass step 3 but the risk remains that you can do badly on it. The benefit doesn't seem to outweigh the risk by much so, I would say, why tempt fate? Others might have different opinions.

I know you may not want to share it and it is perfectly fine but have you applied strategically this year? While you have big red flags, I am surprised that you would not get any interviews at all!
Next year I will beco
It would be better if you open another thread to ask for advice.

First, I am so sorry to hear about your experience and it is really unfortunate.

From frequenting the forum, it seems to me that Step 3 will only marginally help. PD views that exam as an intern exam anyway so it is not high yield for them. The most that PDs will think about this exam is that they won't have to worry about you failing it during your intern year. With your score history, I am sure that you will pass step 3 but the risk remains that you can do badly on it. The benefit doesn't seem to outweigh the risk by much so, I would say, why tempt fate? Others might have different opinions.

I know you may not want to share it and it is perfectly fine but have you applied strategically this year? While you have big red flags, I am surprised that you would not get any interviews at all!

It would be better if you open another thread to ask for advice.

I think the biggest problem was submitting my CS late, since the first attempt was a fail. So by the time I got my pass it was too late. I applied to about 150 family programs(ones that were not strict regarding CS failures). Next year I will apply to psych as well as a back up. It is just crazy how one bad day , can really mess up your application. I honoured all my rotations, never repeated a semester or anything. This just sucks

 

[Lilyhopeless]

I think the biggest problem was submitting my CS late, since the first attempt was a fail. So by the time I got my pass it was too late. I applied to about 150 family programs(ones that were not strict regarding CS failures). Next year I will apply to psych as well as a back up. It is just crazy how one bad day , can really mess up your application. I honoured all my rotations, never repeated a semester or anything. This just sucks

You are correct that the biggest hurdle is the CS. However, the fact that you are an IMG is big too. Moreover, I am assuming that you will need a visa in the US, that also plays a role. As well, while I think 150 apps are a lot of apps and I would not claim to know a better number, I have met a couple of Canadians IMG on the interview trail, they mentioned that they apply to 200+. While I don't know their specific background and it is an IM application, I would say maybe to shoot for some 200s also. I said that with full understanding of how ghastly expensive it is, but this is match we are talking about.

FYI, please don't apply to psych, IMO it will be just money on fire. For the past couple of cycles, psych has been very competitive and it has been getting worse. If you don't believe me, you can check with other people on the forum too. I would say try to shoot for IM and Path (especially path) , they are more forgiving, IMG friendly and less competitive.

 

[FutureMDiA]

NON us img , carib student (canadian)
Failed cs 1 attempt, pass 2nd
Step 1 225
Step 2 228
Got my CS passing score end October, this year. No interviews super bummed out . Any hope for match next year?? Will taking step 3 help a lot next year?

I can understand the pain. unfortunitely, 1 bad day can ruin one's future. I think the problem was that those programs saw your CS failure and like you said you did not inform them about passing on time. plus you need a visa so makes it more harder. wish you the best of luck for SOAP and 2021 Match (if required).

 

[Phloston]

Now with the P/F changes to Step 1, a fail on CS is an absolute death sentence.

 

[myresidencyspot]

Now with the P/F changes to Step 1, a fail on CS is an absolute death sentence.

Rules won't go into affect by 2023 most likely, this system will atleast take a year or two to implement into residency applications.