How Do Residents Make Ends Meet

[Studebug]

I have been looking at the FREIDA info. Basically I found only one place that allowed moonlighting. Through reading Uncle Harvey posts I saw several places where posters stated that Cinn allowed moonlighting even though the FREIDA info says no.

I understand that residents are expected to work enormous amounts of house which probably negates moonlighting due to the clamp on hours. If that is the case, then how do you make ends meet on $45K a year for 6-7 years? Do you have to take out more loans? Can you moonlight at institutuions other than your home so it doesn't count toward your 80 hours (like you would have time)?

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[Winged Scapula]

I have been looking at the FREIDA info. Basically I found only one place that allowed moonlighting. Through reading Uncle Harvey posts I saw several places where posters stated that Cinn allowed moonlighting even though the FREIDA info says no.

I understand that residents are expected to work enormous amounts of house which probably negates moonlighting due to the clamp on hours. If that is the case, then how do you make ends meet on $45K a year for 6-7 years? Do you have to take out more loans? Can you moonlight at institutuions other than your home so it doesn't count toward your 80 hours (like you would have time)?

Uhmmm....$45K is above the average income for an entire US family.

It is far from poverty and no resident should have problems "making ends meet" unless they are living outrageously. Even in ridiculously expensive cities, $45K goes a long way.

Most residents defer their loans until they finish residency. I can tell you from experience that when you are busy, you don't have much time to spend your salary on anything but rent/mortage, car payment, utilities, etc. This generally leaves more than enough money to get by.

 

[DHT]

WS, how did you pay for your Yacht payments during residency? I'm having trouble figuring that one out. I'm worried I might need to sell one of my vacation homes!

 

[rmarchigiani]

Most residents defer their loans until they finish residency.

I didn't even realize thats an option. I thought they automatically go into repayment 6 months after you begin residency.

How does one go about deferring them until they finish?

 

[GeraldMonroe]

I didn't even realize thats an option. I thought they automatically go into repayment 6 months after you begin residency.

How does one go about deferring them until they finish?

Even I, the lowly pre-med med student (not sure how else to describe being an MS0) know the answer to this one.

After you graduate medical school, find out how much remaining deferment time you have on your loans. For example, if you graduated undergrad in the Spring, and started medical school in the Fall, the summer break would take 3 months away from the 6 month deferment clock for your undergrad loans.

Once you use up your remaining time, call up the lender and either ask for :
a. A 3 year forbearance, where you will pay no payments but the interest will compound on itself
b. To begin income based repayment, where you'll have to pay 15% of your income that is above 150% of the poverty line. This is about $360 a month for an average resident.

Either way, it kind of seems like the problem would be minor for a neurosurgery resident. If it's really true that they work 88+ hours a week, what do they need money for? One could buy the best possible laptop computer and PDA, best available stethoscope and neuro exam gadgets, monogrammed comfy scrubs, expensive comfy shoes and socks, and name brand protein bars to stuff your locker with for meals. All that would mean you'd have the exact same grade of "stuff" during your hours on the job as that attending who makes half a million a year. Maybe the attending would have a rolex watch, but you could always buy a fake one from that shady guy in chinatown if you felt left out.

As for outside of work : I hear used Honda civics are cheap and reliable for getting home. You just need a bed somewhere close to the hospital.

Seems simple enough, doubt you'd even notice how poor you were. Money's just a number on a computer screen if you don't have time to enjoy the things it can buy.

 

[Winged Scapula]

WS, how did you pay for your Yacht payments during residency? I'm having trouble figuring that one out. I'm worried I might need to sell one of my vacation homes!

I did have to let the upstairs maid go on a part-time basis, so it was a bit of a struggle, but I figured I could do that a bit in my quest to become a better doctor.

 

[GeraldMonroe]

I did have to let the upstairs maid go on a part-time basis

Be very careful with such reckless-cost cutting. Dirty socks are hazardous to your health, and just awful for your image.

 

[rmarchigiani]

a. A 3 year forbearance, where you will pay no payments but the interest will compound on itself
b. To begin income based repayment, where you'll have to pay 15% of your income that is above 150% of the poverty line. This is about $360 a month for an average resident.

Hmmmm....interesting. Im going to have to look into that. I was not aware and it sure would be helpful, at least until I can get settled and save some money.

Thanks for your help you lonely pre-med/med student..... I wish you luck through your 4 years of med school.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Uhmmm....$45K is above the average income for an entire US family.

It is far from poverty and no resident should have problems "making ends meet" unless they are living outrageously. Even in ridiculously expensive cities, $45K goes a long way.

Most residents defer their loans until they finish residency. I can tell you from experience that when you are busy, you don't have much time to spend your salary on anything but rent/mortage, car payment, utilities, etc. This generally leaves more than enough money to get by.

But realistically, $45,000 is your pretax income, isn't it? So your (not YOU, but on average) net income (money you live on) is 60% of that, or $27,000. That's only a few thousand more than what most of us live on as students. Sure, a few thousand isn't anything to sneeze at, but what if you need to buy a used car? What if you have to move? Some unforseen large cost? You're down to what you were living on as a student, and man that can be tight. And if you're doing the income based repayment as mentioned above, that's $4,000+/- a year.

I'm not saying $45,000 is an unreasonable gross salary and personally I'm content living on my ~$20,000 a year, I'm just saying I think it's cutting it pretty close and it's a legitimate concern.

 

[Samoa]

But realistically, $45,000 is your pretax income, isn't it? So your (not YOU, but on average) net income (money you live on) is 60% of that, or $27,000. That's only a few thousand more than what most of us live on as students. Sure, a few thousand isn't anything to sneeze at, but what if you need to buy a used car? What if you have to move? Some unforseen large cost? You're down to what you were living on as a student, and man that can be tight. And if you're doing the income based repayment as mentioned above, that's $4,000+/- a year.

I'm not saying $45,000 is an unreasonable gross salary and personally I'm content living on my ~$20,000 a year, I'm just saying I think it's cutting it pretty close and it's a legitimate concern.

Actually, the average tax rate for a single person with no dependents making $45K is 10.4%. So you'd take home ~$35K, which feels like a fortune in comparison to med school.

I easily paid rent, utilities, groceries, gas, car payment + insurance, ~$60/mo on a credit card, AND was able to put about $300/mo into savings, my intern year. And I lived in a high-cost-of-living location. With no roommate.

Of course, I bought very few items of clothing or electronic gadgets. But that was as much from lack of time to shop for them as anything else.

 

[GeraldMonroe]

If you want to find out your take home pay calculated using current tax rates and the appropriate deductions, use a "paycheck calculator"

I just used one, located here : http://www.paycheckcity.com/netpaycalc/netpaycalculator.asp

Results : $36,078 net pay annually, for a single person with nothing but standard deductions.

Residency programs often offer benefits on top of this, especially in high cost of living areas. Some offer subsidized housing. A friend of mine gets $25/day for meals. And health insurance is a pretty standard offer.

All this pay and benefit is insultingly low if you think of it as a job, especially for 80/hours a week. But, compared to medical school, it is a pretty big step up.

 

[JDOBDO]

I'm not a med student yet at all; but even in undergrad I have been able to live on $300 every two weeks. I think you can make it. Might I add that that is while supporting my girlfriend as well.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I'm not a med student yet at all; but even in undergrad I have been able to live on $300 every two weeks. I think you can make it. Might I add that that is while supporting my girlfriend as well.

Are you going to divulge to details about how you did that in an effort to add perspective about how to live frugally, or are you just bragging?

 

[Pianoman32]

I'm not a med student yet at all; but even in undergrad I have been able to live on $300 every two weeks. I think you can make it. Might I add that that is while supporting my girlfriend as well.

She sounds like a gold digger if you ask me.

 

[Sarcoidosis]

Lets break it down. (after tax) 28000/12= 2333

Rent - $900 (including everything, probably higher then real amount)
Food $400 (add another 400 if the program doesn't provide meals)
Miscellaneous $500 (very generous here)
Total = $1800
Net "Play" Money = 2333 - 1800 = $533

With a new car
Car Insurance - $150
Car on Lease - $500 (??? guessing)
Car Maintenance - $150
Total = $800
Net Debt = $533 - $800 = -$300

With a used car
Car Insurance - $150
Car Maintenance - $200
Total = $350
Net "Play" Money = $533 - $350 = $183

This doesn't take into account a significant other.

 

[asmallchild]

Lets break it down. (after tax) 28000/12= 2333

Rent - $900 (including everything, probably higher then real amount)
Food $400 (add another 400 if the program doesn't provide meals)
Miscellaneous $500 (very generous here)
Total = $1800
Net "Play" Money = 2333 - 1800 = $533

With a new car
Car Insurance - $150
Car on Lease - $500 (??? guessing)
Car Maintenance - $150
Total = $800
Net Debt = $533 - $800 = -$300

With a used car
Car Insurance - $150
Car Maintenance - $200
Total = $350
Net "Play" Money = $533 - $350 = $183

This doesn't take into account a significant other.

$900 rent is a dream in a big city. Unless you enjoy rooming with someone like the college years. How about loan payback? I have minimal loans and the monthly payment is still burdensome. How about utilities? Can be incredibly pricy depending on the type of housing you've got. How about parking? Again a phenomenal drain if you are in a big city. 401K Contribution? (if available) Haha no, I don't intend to do this. But I've met a couple of co-residents who are adamant that this is of supreme importance. Cable TV/internet? Gas?

Making it on a resident's salary is more than doable (especially considering my resident salary exceeds the average household income in the town I'm working in). But it's not as easy as everyone makes it out to be, especially if you're carrying large loans and don't want to accrue interest during residency.

 

[Samoa]

$900 rent is a dream in a big city. Unless you enjoy rooming with someone like the college years. How about loan payback? I have minimal loans and the monthly payment is still burdensome. How about utilities? Can be incredibly pricy depending on the type of housing you've got. How about parking? Again a phenomenal drain if you are in a big city. 401K Contribution? (if available) Haha no, I don't intend to do this. But I've met a couple of co-residents who are adamant that this is of supreme importance. Cable TV/internet? Gas?
Making it on a resident's salary is more than doable (especially considering my resident salary exceeds the average household income in the town I'm working in). But it's not as easy as everyone makes it out to be, especially if you're carrying large loans and don't want to accrue interest during residency.

My rent was well over $1000/mo, and I still was able to pay for that plus a car loan, fuel, utilities, groceries, insurance, etc, AND put about $300/month in savings.

Your subsidized Staffords won't accrue interest, so it'll just be your unsubs and private loans. Or if capitalizing interest is that repugnant to you, get a roommate.

The money's enough to provide food, shelter, clothing and transportation, it's not meant to be enough to pay your loans as well.

 

[Winged Scapula]

You have to be reasonable. The OP asked how residents "make ends meet" on a resident's salary.

He/she was not asking about "luxuries" such as a new car payment, paying back student loans or making 401K contributions. Emergencies? That's what savings are for - if you have them, great. If not, you have to borrow the money from someone. There were times when I had unexpected expenses and had to borrow from family or my SO yet I was still able to save enough to travel overseas several times during residency.

Making ends meet means paying for rent, food and utilities. The basics.

I was able to pay $875/month in rent (yes, cheap...but again, this was several years ago), a car payment of over $200/month, etc. New clothes were from Target. Groceries at Super WalMart. And my salary started at a little over $35K my intern year. During fellowship I paid $1200/mo for a crappy walk-up studio apartment. I realize these rents are ridiculously low for someone living in Manhattan or SF, but those residencies also pay more and often have housing subsidies. Or here's a novel concept - if you can't afford the rent on the salary you make, then you have to commute or get a roommate.

Was I able to afford loan payments or 401K contributions? Obviously not, but I wasn't struggling by any means. All meals during the day were eaten at the hospital, at least once every two weeks there was some sponsored dinner.

Clearly its harder if you have to support someone else but we all have to make choices in life. If you are making more than the average salary for a family of 4 in the US and can't make your loan payments, then you need to defer them or not contribute to your 401K, etc.

No one should be starving on a resident's salary unless they have made the decision to spend their money on things they don't need to or are supporting OctoMom.

 

[asmallchild]

My rent was well over $1000/mo, and I still was able to pay for that plus a car loan, fuel, utilities, groceries, insurance, etc, AND put about $300/month in savings.

Your subsidized Staffords won't accrue interest, so it'll just be your unsubs and private loans. Or if capitalizing interest is that repugnant to you, get a roommate.

The money's enough to provide food, shelter, clothing and transportation, it's not meant to be enough to pay your loans as well.

Subsidized Staffords do accrue interest after the 6 month grace period. In year's past one could file for economic hardship that would extend the grace period to 12 months but after that, interest begins to accumulate.

The subsidized staffords are interest free during medical school.

 

[Sarcoidosis]

$900 rent is a dream in a big city. Unless you enjoy rooming with someone like the college years. How about loan payback? I have minimal loans and the monthly payment is still burdensome. How about utilities? Can be incredibly pricy depending on the type of housing you've got. How about parking? Again a phenomenal drain if you are in a big city. 401K Contribution? (if available) Haha no, I don't intend to do this. But I've met a couple of co-residents who are adamant that this is of supreme importance. Cable TV/internet? Gas?

Making it on a resident's salary is more than doable (especially considering my resident salary exceeds the average household income in the town I'm working in). But it's not as easy as everyone makes it out to be, especially if you're carrying large loans and don't want to accrue interest during residency.

Rent = share with someone and the cost will be lower. I have lived in NY never paid more than 500/month, except Staten Island close to 800/month. Chicago studio 700/month with parking. Baltimore 400/month.
All of them were decent places, close to the hospital, all utilities included. (I cook very little)

Cable TV??? who needs it (get a laptop and catch or share wireless internet with your neighbor, you can watch everything online!)

Two places you can save a lot of money is Rent and Transportation. Get a cheap cell phone plan, no one ever uses all those minutes in a month. Share wireless internet, or just get it for free from your coffee shop and library. The era of land lines is over, so don't pay for this! Put off getting a car as long as possible, because once you get it there's no going back.

Three places you don't want to skimp on is food/health(gym)/charity.

I was in NY city and residents with subsidized housing were paying $180 to $500/month. I wish my program had subsidized housing.

Loans... haven't figured out how to stop that interest from accrueing. 401K contribution... forget it if you have loans. Every penny that you have should go toward the loans, forget about emergencies, pay off that loan first. Can always get another loan in case of emergencies.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Rent = share with someone and the cost will be lower. I have lived in NY never paid more than 500/month, except Staten Island close to 800/month. Chicago studio 700/month with parking. Baltimore 400/month.
All of them were decent places, close to the hospital, all utilities included. (I cook very little)

Cable TV??? who needs it (get a laptop and catch or share wireless internet with your neighbor, you can watch everything online!)

Two places you can save a lot of money is Rent and Transportation. Get a cheap cell phone plan, no one ever uses all those minutes in a month. Share wireless internet, or just get it for free from your coffee shop and library. The era of land lines is over, so don't pay for this! Put off getting a car as long as possible, because once you get it there's no going back.

Three places you don't want to skimp on is food/health(gym)/charity.

I was in NY city and residents with subsidized housing were paying $180 to $500/month. I wish my program had subsidized housing.

Loans... haven't figured out how to stop that interest from accrueing. 401K contribution... forget it if you have loans. Every penny that you have should go toward the loans, forget about emergencies, pay off that loan first. Can always get another loan in case of emergencies.

...charity?

 

[Samoa]

Subsidized Staffords do accrue interest after the 6 month grace period. In year's past one could file for economic hardship that would extend the grace period to 12 months but after that, interest begins to accumulate.

The subsidized staffords are interest free during medical school.

whether true or not, this is fundamentally irrelevant to my point. It is not difficult to make ends meet on a resident salary, but if you want to pay money on your loans, you might have to scale back on other things you want but don't truly need.

 

[asmallchild]

...charity?

 

[Maxx4]

I'm not a med student yet at all; but even in undergrad I have been able to live on $300 every two weeks. I think you can make it. Might I add that that is while supporting my girlfriend as well.

Why are you providing for a woman who is not your wife?

ETA: 1 post. You probably won't be back. Oh well.

 

[Sarcoidosis]

...charity?

What's the fun of giving when one has the means!
The real charity is when one has to make an effort to do so.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Why are you providing for a woman who is not your wife?

ETA: 1 post. You probably won't be back. Oh well.

Charity?