How do Med Students repay debt?

[anon13]

Is anyone else wary about the debt they are taking on? The average medical student graduates with 190k in debt. At the grad PLUS rate of 7%, paying down just the interest during residency (13,300 per year) seems nearly impossible. After residency, you are now likely into your early thirties or late twenties at the earliest. Now you're making attending salary but you are also probably trying to save up for a down payment, have kids etc. all while paying down this debt that has likely ballooned a bit to over 200k.

This level of debt seems almost prohibitive, or at the very least, will make it so that you can't own a house until you are into your late 30s, early 40s. I think the general consensus among med students is just to laugh it off or say "I'll pay it off" because thats what the previous generation did-- but the previous generation did not have to deal with THIS level of debt. After looking into the financials of the loans I will likely have to take, I am scared by the prospects of my financial future to say the least. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

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[Jdp00921]

This doesn't really answer your question at all and I don't mean to derail this thread, but I often wonder how the "average" for a medical school grad seems to always be reported around 175,000, 185,000, even $200,000. Most current residents I have spoken with owe a significant amount of money over those amounts. I myself will likely owe more than that. I just wonder where they get these averages from.

 

[premedstudent395]

I'm wondering this myself. I'm probably already going to be 50k in debt just from undergrad, so i'll be on the higher end of the debt average, and then there's this mysterious inflation thing i'm hearing about...

I feel like I'll have to live in an apartment for my entire life. So basically eternal college

 

[Chillbo Baggins]

This doesn't really answer your question at all and I don't mean to derail this thread, but I often wonder how the "average" for a medical school grad seems to always be reported around 175,000, 185,000, even $200,000. Most current residents I have spoken with owe a significant amount of money over those amounts. I myself will likely owe more than that. I just wonder where they get these averages from.

People with well-off families who help them out, spouses that work that reduce the amount of loans needed to mainly just cover tuition, people who go to very cheap schools. I fall into the last two categories and I will be below that listed average.

 

[wanderingorion]

This doesn't really answer your question at all and I don't mean to derail this thread, but I often wonder how the "average" for a medical school grad seems to always be reported around 175,000, 185,000, even $200,000. Most current residents I have spoken with owe a significant amount of money over those amounts. I myself will likely owe more than that. I just wonder where they get these averages from.

I saw this article about how the proportion of wealthy students who graduate with no debt has kept the average debt burden around 180K.

To answer your question, there's no point in worrying about it while you're in school, besides just minimizing your loans as much as possible. We'll pay them off. Just don't drop out and get stuck with 100K in debt without a physician's salary.

 

[Cath Up]

This doesn't really answer your question at all and I don't mean to derail this thread, but I often wonder how the "average" for a medical school grad seems to always be reported around 175,000, 185,000, even $200,000. Most current residents I have spoken with owe a significant amount of money over those amounts. I myself will likely owe more than that. I just wonder where they get these averages from.

Students with wealthy parents and previous careers draw the average down like that, as do in-state schools.

 

[libertyyne]

This doesn't really answer your question at all and I don't mean to derail this thread, but I often wonder how the "average" for a medical school grad seems to always be reported around 175,000, 185,000, even $200,000. Most current residents I have spoken with owe a significant amount of money over those amounts. I myself will likely owe more than that. I just wonder where they get these averages from.

In state schools , Texas schools are like 20k. Cheap COA locales. At my school you cant even take out more than 200. Some people get hefty scholarships.

 

[Jdp00921]

People with well-off families who help them out, spouses that work that reduce the amount of loans needed to mainly just cover tuition, people who go to very cheap schools. I fall into the last two categories and I will be below that listed average.

I saw this article about how the proportion of wealthy students who graduate with no debt has kept the average debt burden around 180K.

To answer your question, there's no point in worrying about it while you're in school, besides just minimizing your loans as much as possible. We'll pay them off. Just don't drop out and get stuck with 100K in debt without a physician's salary.

Students with wealthy parents and previous careers draw the average down like that, as do in-state schools.

Really I assumed that's the case. I guess based on the people I know who owe much more, it's just hard to believe the average is pulled down so much. I wish I had parents to pay for all my schooling - must feel great to graduate without so much as a penny owed.

I'm not too particularly concerned with my loans, I'm sure I'll be able to pay them off without any significant burden. I just envy those with none lol.

 

[libertyyne]

Really I assumed that's the case. I guess based on the people I know who owe much more, it's just hard to believe the average is pulled down so much. I wish I had parents to pay for all my schooling - must feel great to graduate without so much as a penny owed.

I'm not too particularly concerned with my loans, I'm sure I'll be able to pay them off without any significant burden. I just envy those with none lol.

Do you go to a private school or a DO school? Or to one in an expensive col area . Those tend to be the worst offenders on average.

 

[Jdp00921]

Do you go to a private school or a DO school? Or to one Thosein an expensive col area tend to be the worst offenders on average.

I'll be attending a private MD school, COA is on the higher side. Honestly I'm just greatful to have been accepted. I wasn't trying to complain in this thread, I just always wondered why averages seem so low to me.

Edit - COL in the schools area is thankfully low.
Edit 2 - Spelled "accepted" wrong... fail.

 

[libertyyne]

OP. Average starting salary is 200k. Let's assume 130 after taxes. 10k of income a month is sufficient to repay loans in the 200k range.

 

[Oso]

you die and make your family/friends finish paying it off

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Most residents enroll in IBR, PAYE, or REPAYE. These are all income based repayment plans, which cap your payments based upon your current income. Rather than try to summarize them here, you should google them.

 

[anon13]

With regards to IBR, PAYE, and RePAYE, are most residents now trying to utilize those options and then do the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program? Considering most residencies are in hospitals that are nonprofits, it seems to make sense to try and work at a hospital for another ~6 years and get the loan forgiveness because for Public Service Loan Forgiveness you need 10 years working at a non profit.

 

[Stagg737]

With regards to IBR, PAYE, and RePAYE, are most residents now trying to utilize those options and then do the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program? Considering most residencies are in hospitals that are nonprofits, it seems to make sense to try and work at a hospital for another ~6 years and get the loan forgiveness because for Public Service Loan Forgiveness you need 10 years working at a non profit.

In some areas and fields you make well over 100k more in salary per year to not be at a PSLF qualifying institution. If you've only got $200k in loans, then after 6 years it's far more financially beneficial to just take the higher salary. This can be especially true in the higher paying fields. So it really depends on the individual: how large their debt burden is, how long residency is, how much they'll be making post-residency, type of loan, etc.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

Wait? What??? The debt is real? And here I thought is was just Monopoly money the whole time...

 

[flightnurse2MD]

Is anyone else wary about the debt they are taking on? The average medical student graduates with 190k in debt. At the grad PLUS rate of 7%, paying down just the interest during residency (13,300 per year) seems nearly impossible. After residency, you are now likely into your early thirties or late twenties at the earliest. Now you're making attending salary but you are also probably trying to save up for a down payment, have kids etc. all while paying down this debt that has likely ballooned a bit to over 200k.

This level of debt seems almost prohibitive, or at the very least, will make it so that you can't own a house until you are into your late 30s, early 40s. I think the general consensus among med students is just to laugh it off or say "I'll pay it off" because thats what the previous generation did-- but the previous generation did not have to deal with THIS level of debt. After looking into the financials of the loans I will likely have to take, I am scared by the prospects of my financial future to say the least. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

How I paid off $400,000 worth of debt - Live Free MD

It’s really no secret- no matter the size of debt you owe or your situation. Living student loan free with a paid-off Toyota is the new rich.

 

[KU Brendan]

Many post-residency positions these days will offer a certain amount of loan repayment. Even without that, once you start actually earning money, you really will be fine. A dean in med school said it to me this way: if you were going to start a small business, you would likely take out a loan for $100K+, with the expectation of earning money in the future. Similarly, you are taking out money for undergrad and med school with the expectation that you will be able to pay that off once you have a job.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

One dollar at a time

 

[Dares Dareson]

Personally, I've been writing my congressional representatives in support of creating a market for human organs. It's my body and I should be allowed to sell parts of it if I want. One kidney could probably fetch half a mil, which is enough to pay off my debt and get that Toyota the other feller was talking about.

 

[KU Brendan]

Personally, I've been writing my congressional representatives in support of creating a market for human organs. It's my body and I should be allowed to sell parts of it if I want. One kidney could probably fetch half a mil, which is enough to pay off my debt and get that Toyota the other feller was talking about.

Sadly, it looks like you'd likely have to sell off more than just your kidney to make half a mil. Source: Gizmodo "Here's How Much Body Parts Cost on the Black Market" (sadly, I'm not allowed to post links). I wonder what kind of ads Facebook is going to show me now that I have that in my internet search history...

 

[887194]

While you have a "large" debt, you will also have a big shovel to get yourself out. Considering you will be making 200k+, you will be able to pay it off in a reasonable time frame provided you have a plan and don't buy a new Bentley as soon as you start working.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

How much is semen going for these days? After all, arent we all considered the upper 1%? (grin)

 

[KU Brendan]

How much is semen going for these days? After all, arent we all considered the upper 1%? (grin)

My search history is bad enough after looking up the cost of human organs on the black market, so you're on your own searching for that.

 

[QueenJames]

I envy those with no debt that had mommy and daddy pay it off.

A dude I know is a practicing FM doc and still lives with his parents in their paid-off golf course home and he just bought a $140,000 Mercedes S-Class with the V12 engine.

It really must be nice not to have to worry about 6-figure debt when your parents can foot the bill.

Crazy.

 

[Redpancreas]

How much is semen going for these days? After all, arent we all considered the upper 1%? (grin)

$1200/month which would actually be enough to handle my loans on a 6 year repayment plan. Luckily I'm not in Cali. They make you pay taxes on it if you make over $600. I don't do it, but I would say a majority of males in my class do.

 

[ChrisMack390]

This doesn't really answer your question at all and I don't mean to derail this thread, but I often wonder how the "average" for a medical school grad seems to always be reported around 175,000, 185,000, even $200,000. Most current residents I have spoken with owe a significant amount of money over those amounts. I myself will likely owe more than that. I just wonder where they get these averages from.

There are a lot of zeros and very small debts within that average due to double doctor parents or otherwise wealthy parents. I would assume it is a bi-modal distribution, with the second peak significantly higher than the reported average.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

I envy those with no debt that had mommy and daddy pay it off.

A dude I know is a practicing FM doc and still lives with his parents in their paid-off golf course home and he just bought a $140,000 Mercedes S-Class with the V12 engine.

It really must be nice not to have to worry about 6-figure debt when your parents can foot the bill.

Crazy.

But does he get laid?

 

[mvenus929]

A dude I know is a practicing FM doc and still lives with his parents in their paid-off golf course home and he just bought a $140,000 Mercedes S-Class with the V12 engine.

Just because you have fancy things doesn't mean you can afford them. The average millionaire doesn't have a flashy car or home because they actually save their money to become millionaires.

 

[QueenJames]

Just because you have fancy things doesn't mean you can afford them. The average millionaire doesn't have a flashy car or home because they actually save their money to become millionaires.

I know what you mean but the key word there is AVERAGE.

We also don't know if he leased the car or financed it or bought the car outright cash (Which is absolutely ******ed).

Knowing his business savvy daddy though... it's a lease.

But still... if he's making $250K (starting salary for new FM docs in the area) ... He's taking home atleast 120-130K. He doesn't have any actual bills as his parents take care of all that.

That's 10,000 take home with no mortgage payment... no kids.... and benefits are taken care of through his work.

He's paying a $2K car note every month to ride in a frickin' Maybach rather than chip away off of loans like many of us will be doing for years lol

Is it smart?

Idk and Idc as that is not for me to judge.

All I am saying is that loans suck!

People probably judge him for living with his parents at such an age...

But hell... I would do the same thing (minus the car splurging... but to each his own) if I had the abililty.

Being mid-late 20s making 6 figs and I have breakfast, lunch, and dinner ready to go... housekeepers making my bed and cleaning the spot... and laundry done at the drop of a dime...

And all I have to do is live with my parents for the rest of my life ...???

SIGN ME UP.

WHERE'S THE MEATLOAF MOM!?!

 

[QueenJames]

But does he get laid?

LOL who cares?

I'm sure his parents will find him a doctor chick to get hitched with.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

LOL who cares?

I'm sure his parents will find him a doctor chick to get hitched with.

Eh, I worked very hard for my man card. Ain’t planning on going soft any time soon....

 

[QueenJames]

Eh, I worked very hard for my man card. Ain’t planning on going soft any time soon....

Do what you gotta do playa. I ain't judgin' ya!

 

[Mad Jack]

Is anyone else wary about the debt they are taking on? The average medical student graduates with 190k in debt. At the grad PLUS rate of 7%, paying down just the interest during residency (13,300 per year) seems nearly impossible. After residency, you are now likely into your early thirties or late twenties at the earliest. Now you're making attending salary but you are also probably trying to save up for a down payment, have kids etc. all while paying down this debt that has likely ballooned a bit to over 200k.

This level of debt seems almost prohibitive, or at the very least, will make it so that you can't own a house until you are into your late 30s, early 40s. I think the general consensus among med students is just to laugh it off or say "I'll pay it off" because thats what the previous generation did-- but the previous generation did not have to deal with THIS level of debt. After looking into the financials of the loans I will likely have to take, I am scared by the prospects of my financial future to say the least. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

I've got 360k myself. Best way is to do REPAYE in residency, which is a 10% of disposable income payment that cuts any interest above your minimum payment in half and prevents compounding. Pay the minimum as an attending, then apply 5k/month to your highest interest loan principle. Rinse and repeat until your debt is reduced to a manageable level (for me less than 200k).

 

[RNtoMD87]

Live within your means... I currently live off of less than 1500 a month and make 4,000 a month. So I put the difference in an account called "medical school" to offset loans.

 

[Domepiece]

I saw this article about how the proportion of wealthy students who graduate with no debt has kept the average debt burden around 180K.

To answer your question, there's no point in worrying about it while you're in school, besides just minimizing your loans as much as possible. We'll pay them off. Just don't drop out and get stuck with 100K in debt without a physician's salary.

That 180k number actually is based on students that graduate with debt from medical school and excludes those with no debt from the sample. Would concur that many small balances result from family/spousal support or different tuition and COA expenses. Also concur with @aProgDirector in that most students enter an income based repayment plan during their residency/fellowship training.

From the graduating questionaire in 2017: "Medical School Debt Stays Constant, and Total Education Debt Rises Twenty-seven percent of respondents to the 2017 GQ reported graduating with no medical school debt. For those with debt, the median medical school debt reported was $180,000, the same as in 2016 and in 2015. For total education debt, the sum of premedical education debt and medical school debt, the median reported by indebted students was $195,000, an increase of 2.7 percent over what was reported in 2016 ($190,000). Nearly forty-six percent of those carrying debt said they plan to enter a loan forgiveness program; of these, most identified the Department of Education’s Public Loan Forgiveness Program (73.2%) in their plans." Link

you die and make your family/friends finish paying it off

There is actually an explicit clause in all federal loan promissory notes guaranteeing discharge of your loans upon your death, freeing your family/friends from being liable. This is not generally true of private lenders, however.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I've got 360k myself. Best way is to do REPAYE in residency, which is a 10% of disposable income payment that cuts any interest above your minimum payment in half and prevents compounding. Pay the minimum as an attending, then apply 5k/month to your highest interest loan principle. Rinse and repeat until your debt is reduced to a manageable level (for me less than 200k).

Wouldn't refinancing your loans at a much lower rate make more financial sense?

Let's assume that your 360k balloons to ~400k after residency (taking into account that the feds cover half of your unpaid interests). Let's say you get a job that pays 250k as an attending. Your calculated REPAYE payments will barely cover the interests (~25k/year), thanks to the high interest rate. However, if you refinance at a much lower rate, say 3%, you'll be paying less than the amount of interests you'd pay if you stay with RePAY, and now a much bigger chunk of your repayment can go towards the principle.

 

[Money Moniker]

$1200/month which would actually be enough to handle my loans on a 6 year repayment plan. Luckily I'm not in Cali. They make you pay taxes on it if you make over $600. I don't do it, but I would say a majority of males in my class do.

What!? The majority of your male classmates donate sperm for money? How is that even possible, given there are height requirements that would preclude the majority of guys from donating by that reason alone. At my school at least average height is well below 6ft given the large number of ORMs. I don't know a single guy who gets money by being a sperm donor, I find it hard to believe the majority of people at your school do, given how niche of a thing this is.

Personally I don't do it (assuming they'd even take me) because the possibility of getting hustled for money by the mother(s) of one of your bastard spawn in the unknowable future of the 2030's is not worth the risk.

 

[Oso]

There is actually an explicit clause in all federal loan promissory notes guaranteeing discharge of your loans upon your death, freeing your family/friends from being liable. This is not generally true of private lenders, however.

Excellent, even more reason to look forward to that blissful eternal slumber that is death.

 

[Redpancreas]

What!? The majority of your male classmates donate sperm for money? How is that even possible, given there are height requirements that would preclude the majority of guys from donating by that reason alone. At my school at least average height is well below 6ft given the large number of ORMs. I don't know a single guy who gets money by being a sperm donor, I find it hard to believe the majority of people at your school do, given how niche of a thing this is.

Personally I don't do it (assuming they'd even take me) because the possibility of getting hustled for money by the mother(s) of one of your bastard spawn in the unknowable future of the 2030's is not worth the risk.

Haha, that was a complete troll on my part. Wanted to see if there was a big reaction, but apparently no one batted an eye.

 

[PathoTurnUp1865]

Bro, just marry someone. Have them work while you’re in residency, use your residency funds to pay it off. Then divorce and live like a baller. Jesus, it is that simple. Don’t know why students always complaining.

 

[thepoopologist]

Is anyone else wary about the debt they are taking on? The average medical student graduates with 190k in debt. At the grad PLUS rate of 7%, paying down just the interest during residency (13,300 per year) seems nearly impossible. After residency, you are now likely into your early thirties or late twenties at the earliest. Now you're making attending salary but you are also probably trying to save up for a down payment, have kids etc. all while paying down this debt that has likely ballooned a bit to over 200k.

This level of debt seems almost prohibitive, or at the very least, will make it so that you can't own a house until you are into your late 30s, early 40s. I think the general consensus among med students is just to laugh it off or say "I'll pay it off" because thats what the previous generation did-- but the previous generation did not have to deal with THIS level of debt. After looking into the financials of the loans I will likely have to take, I am scared by the prospects of my financial future to say the least. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Welcome to the real world, where everyone gets as much as they can from everyone else. In medical school I was charged for everything except for the air I breathed. In residency I averaged 10-20 dollars/hour. Now I am an attending, paying off 400k+ of debt. Everyone wants a high salary with less or no student loan debt however it turns out universities and the people employed by them really enjoy money as well.

If you're scared of your financial future and you still want to be a doctor, succeed in medical school and residency and do your best to enter a high paying specialty you like.

I've found my debt more difficult to deal with in the sense that it is a lot of money and it feels like I am dragging around a ball and chain, however objectively I could pay it off in 2.5-3 years, if I want to be aggressive about it. I think my standard 10 year repayment plan, if I went that route, would require 5k/month toward loans. Even at that level, I'd have enough left over to support a wife and 2 kids and save for a downpayment. It wouldn't be a lavish lifestyle but it would be a solid level of living.

One of the other things I've observed is that life isn't exactly a ball elsewhere. Lots of people are stressed out by work, good homes in safe neighborhoods are difficult to find, money is sometimes tight. Jobs sometimes take months to years to find. The big difference I see with physicians is that once their debt is under control (or gone), their life stabilizes dramatically and an upper middle class lifestyle is the norm.

Risk vs reward, that's all there is to it. For those entering medical school, I can see how it is a big gamble. You are gambling your youth and your financial future on a stable career that may only materialize after a decade of work and suffering. It is not for everyone.