How do I get the most out of my masters program?

[deleted861354]

Hi all,

I'll be starting a masters in counseling program in the Spring with the eventual goal of providing therapy in a private practice setting. I'll note that I have read close to 200 books and articles on the topic, had conversations with about a dozen therapists of various stripes, and come from a business / marketing background, so I am well aware of the challenge involved in this, am prepared for failure, and have a way of continuing my current career if this path fails.

Back to the topic: I was formerly a PhD student in an adjacent field. Because it was at a program where advising was practically non-existent, and I do not come from a family of academics (or even college graduates), it took my quite some time to learn "the game," and I do not feel I made productive use of my first few years of school, since I lacked a lot of the tacit knowledge required to succeed. I ultimately dropped out because I found the research part not as interested in the talking to people and reading part, but frankly I don't think I would have succeeded anyway, given the lost years at the front end, in what is an extraordinarily competitive field.

So, now that I'm starting a new graduate program, I would like to avoid the same mistake this time around!

So, what advice do you have about how best to use your precious time during the masters portion of your training, your internship shortly after, and then in that first year pre-licensure?

Is the important thing to try to find volunteer therapy opportunities?
Experience receiving a lot of modalities of therapy? (Note I'm currently in therapy and will continue to be while in school)
Read extensively?
Talk a lot to other practicing therapists?
Talk to faculty?
Learn the legal / ethical stuff to a T?
Focus my free time on developing my business plan? (Already been developing it for years...)
What the thing I need to be doing during this part of my training to really get the most out of it?

Conversely, what might be something I *think* is a good idea, but in reality actually isn't? (In my Ph.D. program, the answer to that question was "read widely across disciplines" when I should actually have "read really, really deeply in the one or two areas directly connected to my research" instead).

Thanks all for your time.

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[R. Matey]

Standard warnings about terrible career prospects of master's in counseling programs notwithstanding, I'd say to be sure to develop a plan for a niche early and get a lot of training in it. Something evidence based and something that people don't like to do. Like sex offender treatment or couple's therapy. NOT EMDR-Somato-rebirthing for PTSD. The master's level folks who do well for themselves in competitive markets do so mainly through specializing so while going through your master's program, think about finding a post-master's fellowship or training program that can offer you experience to specialize for your licensing hours. Also, start reading in this area while obtaining generalist experiences during your master's practicum.

 

[deleted861354]

Standard warnings about terrible career prospects of master's in counseling programs notwithstanding, I'd say to be sure to develop a plan for a niche early and get a lot of training in it. Something evidence based and something that people don't like to do. Like sex offender treatment or couple's therapy. NOT EMDR-Somato-rebirthing for PTSD. The master's level folks who do well for themselves in competitive markets do so mainly through specializing so while going through your master's program, think about finding a post-master's fellowship or training program that can offer you experience to specialize for your licensing hours. Also, start reading in this area while obtaining generalist experiences during your master's practicum.

Thanks so much for your time with this!

You mention how to obtain success with a masters -- do you have any other advice for how to avoid becoming a masters level failure and / or what else distinguishes successful masters level careers? (with the understanding that failure is more likely to happen than success). fortunately I can fall back on my current career if this happens; while the additional loans will be a tough pill to swallow, my current career is lucrative enough (if not particularly satisfying) that I'll be able to handle it).

 

[deleted861354]

Also, one additional question: How do I find additional trainings for a particular niche (are there particular organizations / institutions / institutes / websites to find such things), and how to I distinguish what is useful/legit/professional from a waste of money / voodoo therapy?

 

[R. Matey]

Thanks so much for your time with this!

You mention how to obtain success with a masters -- do you have any other advice for how to avoid becoming a masters level failure and / or what else distinguishes successful masters level careers? (with the understanding that failure is more likely to happen than success). fortunately I can fall back on my current career if this happens; while the additional loans will be a tough pill to swallow, my current career is lucrative enough (if not particularly satisfying) that I'll be able to handle it).

Like I said, the most important thing is to specialize, which requires some degree of knowing what you want to do with the degree once you're finished. Obtain generalist training during your program and then find a master's level fellowship or some kind of structured mentoring experience for your post-master's licensing hours. Marketing yourself as a specialist in an area of practice that isn't already overcrowded is how I've seen folks do well at the master's level in private practice. That, and having a good business sense.

Also, one additional question: How do I find additional trainings for a particular niche (are there particular organizations / institutions / institutes / websites to find such things), and how to I distinguish what is useful/legit/professional from a waste of money / voodoo therapy?

Check out the APA practice guidelines, the APA clinical practice guidelines or Division 12 for guidance on evidence based practices. They aren't emphasized to the level that they should be in counseling programs so don't be surprised if you don't hear much about them during your training.

 

[deleted861354]

Thank you again for your time with this.

 

[deleted861354]

Like I said, the most important thing is to specialize, which requires some degree of knowing what you want to do with the degree once you're finished. Obtain generalist training during your program and then find a master's level fellowship or some kind of structured mentoring experience for your post-master's licensing hours. Marketing yourself as a specialist in an area of practice that isn't already overcrowded is how I've seen folks do well at the master's level in private practice. That, and having a good business sense.



Check out the APA practice guidelines, the APA clinical practice guidelines or Division 12 for guidance on evidence based practices. They aren't emphasized to the level that they should be in counseling programs so don't be surprised if you don't hear much about them during your training.

Wow, just looked through those links you sent through - can't believe that stuff doesn't get touched in counseling programs . . .

 

[R. Matey]

Wow, just looked through those links you sent through - can't believe that stuff doesn't get touched in counseling programs . . .

Yeah, counseling programs will teach you micro-skills and the social justice paradigm as well as give you a brief introduction to theories in psychopathology, career, psychotherapy, and developmental psych typically, but leave it to you to obtain 'specialist' training during your post-master's licensing hours. Not to mention that one year of part-time practicum is hardly sufficient to learn EPBs because you're still just getting comfortable with clients. Heck, I did a six month concentration with eating disorder patients during my predoctoral internship and I still feel like I barely know anything about it.

This is why, IMO, the standard advice around here is to get an MSW for master's level training. It's a flexible degree that gives you human service experience with the opportunities to specialize in psychotherapy during your master's hours--where you have to anyways because counseling training alone is insufficient. The downside of this approach, from what I've seen, is that social workers can opt to do their licensing hours anywhere and can end up being worse than counselors who at least had some psychotherapy training in their master's program. But being the better of two bad options is still not great. Hence why specialization becomes important.

 

[deleted861354]

Yeah, counseling programs will teach you micro-skills and the social justice paradigm as well as give you a brief introduction to theories in psychopathology, career, psychotherapy, and developmental psych typically, but leave it to you to obtain 'specialist' training during your post-master's licensing hours. Not to mention that one year of part-time practicum is hardly sufficient to learn EPBs because you're still just getting comfortable with clients. Heck, I did a six month concentration with eating disorder patients during my predoctoral internship and I still feel like I barely know anything about it.

This is why, IMO, the standard advice around here is to get an MSW for master's level training. It's a flexible degree that gives you human service experience with the opportunities to specialize in psychotherapy during your master's hours--where you have to anyways because counseling training alone is insufficient. The downside of this approach, from what I've seen, is that social workers can opt to do their licensing hours anywhere and can end up being worse than counselors who at least had some psychotherapy training in their master's program. But being the better of two bad options is still not great. Hence why specialization becomes important.

The MSW advice, in the abstract, I think makes perfect sense. The problem is that while I am sympathetic to social justice causes, from what I have both heard about programs and from having had conversations with people with MSW degrees, the degree of social justice indoctrination, the intolerance of more moderate views (e.g. the position that not everything bad in the world is the result of evil intentions, that inequality is an inevitable outcome of certain forms of social organization, that some people do better than others because of innate talent / intelligence and/or valued traits like conscientiousness and physical beauty) - I just have a feeling I would be a pariah in that type of program and be constantly biting my tongue. I don't expect counselors to be any less liberal (I am quite liberal myself), but I feel like there is a certain added rigidity when that social justice orientation is baked into the program in a way that is becomes bound to people's identities. I have every intention of offering pro bono counseling when able, I am supportive of just about any social justice initiative you can think of -- but I often find that the people who are deeply involved in such initiatives are, frankly, not very grounded in reality, projecting their personal feelings of inferiority onto the world (e.g. fighting all the bad evil people out there creating injustice), and honestly just not very caring and loving people, ironically.

So that was a long of saying: I think you're completely right that the MSW is a safer bet in every way; but I think I would go nuts spending all my time among those people, especially when I'm fairly certain that therapy is all I really want to do. If I feel dissatisfied, I'll probably just apply to clinical psych PhD programs; I previously dropped out of a PhD program from the top program in the world in an adjacent field (I was a typical 'don't know what else to do with myself so let's try this'), so I think I'd be able to slink back in to a PhD program somewhere.

And an even longer way of saying: specialization it is!

 

[R. Matey]

So that was a long of saying: I think you're completely right that the MSW is a safer bet in every way; but I think I would go nuts spending all my time among those people, especially when I'm fairly certain that therapy is all I really want to do. If I feel dissatisfied, I'll probably just apply to clinical psych PhD programs; I previously dropped out of a PhD program from the top program in the world in an adjacent field (I was a typical 'don't know what else to do with myself so let's try this'), so I think I'd be able to slink back in to a PhD program somewhere.

You most definitely will not escape social justice conversations in counseling programs or really any of the helping professions though I'd wager that counseling and social work emphasize it to a greater degree than clinical psych or psychiatry. It's a strong emphasis in counseling programs though. Coming from a counseling background myself, I can tell you there wasn't a single class where issues like these weren't discussed. And like in virtually all classroom discussions I've been in, there were people who made idiotic points. That said, I encourage you to think about separating the merits of the paradigm from the lowest common denominator. It was more helpful for me to read the scholarship and talk with people who were open to me asking questions than participating in large group discussions.

Frankly, I'm far from convinced that large group formats are the appropriate forum for social justice dialogues given the diversity of racial identities in the room. They are probably just adopted by institutions and faculty because they are cheap in terms of time and money.

 

[deleted861354]

You most definitely will not escape social justice conversations in counseling programs or really any of the helping professions though I'd wager that counseling and social work emphasize it to a greater degree than clinical psych or psychiatry. It's a strong emphasis in counseling programs though. Coming from a counseling background myself, I can tell you there wasn't a single class where issues like these weren't discussed. And like in virtually all classroom discussions I've been in, there were people who made idiotic points. That said, I encourage you to think about separating the merits of the paradigm from the lowest common denominator. It was more helpful for me to read the scholarship and talk with people who were open to me asking questions than participating in large group discussions.

Frankly, I'm far from convinced that large group formats are the appropriate forum for social justice dialogues given the diversity of racial identities in the room. They are probably just adopted by institutions and faculty because they are cheap in terms of time and money.

I completely agree with the point about large group formats and social justice conversations. The social psychology of the shame and in/out group dynamics involved is a recipe for disaster (everyone being afraid to say the wrong thing, people saying things they don't actually believe, people condemning people more harshly than actually represents their feelings on the matter, etc.)

I don't doubt that the social justice component will be emphasized in counseling programs; it's just that when I think about the LPCs I've spoken with as compared with the LCSW's when I've tried to find out a bit more about what grad school and private practice are like, it's much more frequent that the LCSW's bring up, unprompted, issues related to social justice and in ways that suggest that the main thing driving their efforts are a kind of pride or inferiority/superiority complex, as opposed to some combination of genuine conviction and care. I think it's the artifice and buzzwords that drive me nuts about the LCSWs. I'm much more drawn to the humanistic / existentialist / autonomy-focused undertones among LPCs, than I am the systems-based, fighting-the-good-fight warrior mentality of the LCSWs.

Now, as you said, there is a lowest common denominator and I shouldn't base my perceptions on this -- I would actually say the "lowest" common denominator was among the LPCs -- just some breathtaking illogic, lack of business sense, inability to describe to me what they even think psychopathology is, why this or that treatment would or wouldn't work, fantasy-land thinking -- in short, people who probably couldn't even get into the MSW programs; the LCSWs, as a whole, seem smarter and more competent. But as people, they seem much more mechanistic, cold-hearted, political, careerist, etc -- there is a kind of rigidity that really turns me off.

 

[chicandtoughness]

I don't necessarily think that the things you're noticing is a result of the social work/counseling paradigm, but more so an issue of the underlying theories that those folks tend towards. I'm a psychoanalytically oriented LMHC and LPC (licensed in 2 states), and trust me, I'm definitely not a SJW most days and yes, I tend to get treated like a pariah. But that shouldn't matter. You don't need to "belong" in order to be a great clinician. Once you graduate and are out on your own, you will either be 1) working in an agency where your viewpoint doesn't even matter, or 2) private practice, where your viewpoint can be whatever it wants to be.

 

[deleted861354]

I don't necessarily think that the things you're noticing is a result of the social work/counseling paradigm, but more so an issue of the underlying theories that those folks tend towards. I'm a psychoanalytically oriented LMHC and LPC (licensed in 2 states), and trust me, I'm definitely not a SJW most days and yes, I tend to get treated like a pariah. But that shouldn't matter. You don't need to "belong" in order to be a great clinician. Once you graduate and are out on your own, you will either be 1) working in an agency where your viewpoint doesn't even matter, or 2) private practice, where your viewpoint can be whatever it wants to be.

My concern is less about how this will affect my training snd more about just having to bite my tongue for 3 years around my colleagues.

 

[Lukewarm Counselor]

My concern is less about how this will affect my training snd more about just having to bite my tongue for 3 years around my colleagues.

Comfort definitely matters when selecting a graduate program. But I encourage you to consider embracing a degree of discomfort, as well. You remain free (and encouraged!) in most programs to question and challenge assertions. I am unaware of any SW students that were ever expected to bite their tongues on issues or in classroom discussions. So long as one approached their professors and cohorts with collegial respect and authenticity, I should expect such "unbridled tongues" would be viewed as an asset to an MSW program.

 

[deleted861354]

Comfort definitely matters when selecting a graduate program. But I encourage you to consider embracing a degree of discomfort, as well. You remain free (and encouraged!) in most programs to question and challenge assertions. I am unaware of any SW students that were ever expected to bite their tongues on issues or in classroom discussions. So long as one approached their professors and cohorts with collegial respect and authenticity, I should expect such "unbridled tongues" would be viewed as an asset to an MSW program.

I think part of my concern stems from having previously been in a master in sociology program, which was populated by several people with BSWs, and would harangue me whenever I would present reputable scholarly articles that contradicted what was being taught in class or if I pushed back against the ‘every problem you have in life is due to your background and it is the government and white people’s responsibility to fix it’ narrative thst oervaded every single class. It wasn’t about being exposed to points of view thst made me uncomfortable — it was being called to my face an idiot, a racist, a fascist etc.

 

[Lukewarm Counselor]

It wasn’t about being exposed to points of view thst made me uncomfortable — it was being called to my face an idiot, a racist, a fascist

Yikes. Yeah, that would be most uncomfortable! That is unfortunate you had that experience. For what it's worth, professional graduate school is very different than undergraduate. (It is still disheartening to hear of your experiences in that master's of sociology program, though!) No MSW program worth its salt would tolerate such unacceptable behavior. This is a gate-keeping profession (same as psychology and counseling). Collegial respect is demanded of students at all times. Can you imagine professional social workers running around in public and calling people idiots, fascists, or racists to their faces? Me either. MSW students are held to this same standard on day one. If students behaved like that (calling cohorts "idiots" in class) in an MSW program, I have to imagine they would face immediate remediation or could even find themselves cut from the program completely. That type of behavior demonstrates a serious lack of maturity and professionalism.

For what it's worth, my wife shares a similar struggle. She grew up with more conservative viewpoints in many ways. She is also white. Originally, she chose the SW track for its career flexibility, and also the fact that she could shave a year of her schooling off by doing the advanced standing route (available to those who do their bachelor's in SW). (Not to mention she is saving nearly $20k in tuition costs, as well.) She really struggled at first with some of the courses like sociology. But in time, she learned to challenge the weaker assertions and challenged her cohorts and professors to produce evidence. This accomplished two things:

1) It highlighted areas where the science was weaker and helped her cohorts also challenge themselves in seeking evidence for these areas.

2) Many times, when she challenged these areas, she was presented with solid evidence that ended up changing her thinking in these areas.

Thus, it made the program stronger, and it helped her to grow in knowledge and in her own worldview. It is ALWAYS a win-win in academia when we challenge assertions and demand supporting evidence. In the end, she is not required to agree with, or personally adopt these theories. Her job is to study and examine them and to learn the theories. Anyhow, she ultimately grew quite fond of her collegial disagreements with her cohorts/professors, and she considers many of them to be her closest friends today. And she holds a very high level of respect and admiration for her former professors. (Again, one need not necessarily agree with people to be friends/colleagues!)

I am really not trying to sell you on the SW track. I am on the counseling side myself. And I am personally very satisfied with my career prospects. Though SW generally offers a much broader spectrum of career paths, as others note. I guess what all of my rambling here is getting at is that I just encourage you to not dismiss MSW programs from your list of options. Again, professional graduate school is very different. And again, collegial respect is demanded and expected at all times in professional graduate programs. Frankly, you might even speak candidly to the admissions faculty about your past experiences and your current concerns and see how they respond. I suspect it may pleasantly surprise you.

I sure wish you the best no matter which path you ultimately take, my friend.

 

[deleted861354]

Yikes. Yeah, that would be most uncomfortable! That is unfortunate you had that experience. For what it's worth, professional graduate school is very different than undergraduate. (It is still disheartening to hear of your experiences in that master's of sociology program, though!) No MSW program worth its salt would tolerate such unacceptable behavior. This is a gate-keeping profession (same as psychology and counseling). Collegial respect is demanded of students at all times. Can you imagine professional social workers running around in public and calling people idiots, fascists, or racists to their faces? Me either. MSW students are held to this same standard on day one. If students behaved like that (calling cohorts "idiots" in class) in an MSW program, I have to imagine they would face immediate remediation or could even find themselves cut from the program completely. That type of behavior demonstrates a serious lack of maturity and professionalism.

For what it's worth, my wife shares a similar struggle. She grew up with more conservative viewpoints in many ways. She is also white. Originally, she chose the SW track for its career flexibility, and also the fact that she could shave a year of her schooling off by doing the advanced standing route (available to those who do their bachelor's in SW). (Not to mention she is saving nearly $20k in tuition costs, as well.) She really struggled at first with some of the courses like sociology. But in time, she learned to challenge the weaker assertions and challenged her cohorts and professors to produce evidence. This accomplished two things:

1) It highlighted areas where the science was weaker and helped her cohorts also challenge themselves in seeking evidence for these areas.

2) Many times, when she challenged these areas, she was presented with solid evidence that ended up changing her thinking in these areas.

Thus, it made the program stronger, and it helped her to grow in knowledge and in her own worldview. It is ALWAYS a win-win in academia when we challenge assertions and demand supporting evidence. In the end, she is not required to agree with, or personally adopt these theories. Her job is to study and examine them and to learn the theories. Anyhow, she ultimately grew quite fond of her collegial disagreements with her cohorts/professors, and she considers many of them to be her closest friends today. And she holds a very high level of respect and admiration for her former professors. (Again, one need not necessarily agree with people to be friends/colleagues!)

I am really not trying to sell you on the SW track. I am on the counseling side myself. And I am personally very satisfied with my career prospects. Though SW generally offers a much broader spectrum of career paths, as others note. I guess what all of my rambling here is getting at is that I just encourage you to not dismiss MSW programs from your list of options. Again, professional graduate school is very different. And again, collegial respect is demanded and expected at all times in professional graduate programs. Frankly, you might even speak candidly to the admissions faculty about your past experiences and your current concerns and see how they respond. I suspect it may pleasantly surprise you.

I sure wish you the best no matter which path you ultimately take, my friend.

Ah, I should have mentioned this was not in class itself, but rather people pulling me aside at social gatherings shared with cohort members. And the accusations were always veiled: ‘I understand what you are trying to say, but don’t you think some of your assumptions are a bit racism?’ ‘I don’t understand how you can bring this fascist kind of ideology into a masters in sociology program — we’re studying society, not the behavior of individuals. If you want to make fascist blame the victim types of arguments, this is not the place for for that.’ ‘I don’t understand why you are bringing into the class scholarship that was debunked in the 1990s.’ When I raised these issues in class, usually the professor was polite and suggested I go read x y or z which argued against whatever I was saying. When I would raise the issue in class, the professor would ask I come to discuss it during office hours (which of course would have meant driving back to campus another day when I was already working full time while raising kids).

Anyway, I honestly don’t have any interest in going to a program to make a program stronger. I want to go to a program where I can spend my time developing my ideas and my skills with my peers, rather than banging my head against the wall dealing with people whose own convictions are held to such a fragile extent that they can’t tolerate another point of view without pulling me aside to essentially ask to make their class a safe space for them. When literally all I did was raise questions about explaining within-group differences (eg why do some poor and or minority groups succeed, even when surrounded by disadvantage) rather than focusing all our energies on between group differences. Every time I raised this, I got these looks like ‘oh you’re just trying to say that because SOME people from disadvantaged backgrounds succeed, therefore the ones who don’t are lazy, right?’ And of course the answer to that questions is NO, as I believe that everyone all the time regardless of circumstances is doing the best they can — but secondly it really just reinforced in my own mind this idea that a lot of people out there fighting the good fight on issues of social justice are just trying to boost their egos because of their displeasure with their ability to handle their own issues — the idea that you could help individuals take better advantage of their circumstances by helping them understand themselves and therefore their perceptions of the world better, and allow them to take more effective action within their means, even if limited — I feel like that idea was threatening to everyone in that room, who preferred to think of EVERYTHING in their life and the lives of people they fought for as the product of structural circumstances beyond their control. And look, I mean, I believe a huge portion of what happens in a person’s life is due to issues around power differentials and structural forces — after all, I enrolled in a sociology degree! But that’s not the ONLY thing at work.

Rant ended, thank you for sharing your wife’s story and your well wishes!

 

[deleted861354]

Ah, I should have mentioned this was not in class itself, but rather people pulling me aside at social gatherings shared with cohort members. And the accusations were always veiled: ‘I understand what you are trying to say, but don’t you think some of your assumptions are a bit racism?’ ‘I don’t understand how you can bring this fascist kind of ideology into a masters in sociology program — we’re studying society, not the behavior of individuals. If you want to make fascist blame the victim types of arguments, this is not the place for for that.’ ‘I don’t understand why you are bringing into the class scholarship that was debunked in the 1990s.’ When I raised these issues in class, usually the professor was polite and suggested I go read x y or z which argued against whatever I was saying. When I would raise the issue in class, the professor would ask I come to discuss it during office hours (which of course would have meant driving back to campus another day when I was already working full time while raising kids).

Anyway, I honestly don’t have any interest in going to a program to make a program stronger. I want to go to a program where I can spend my time developing my ideas and my skills with my peers, rather than banging my head against the wall dealing with people whose own convictions are held to such a fragile extent that they can’t tolerate another point of view without pulling me aside to essentially ask to make their class a safe space for them. When literally all I did was raise questions about explaining within-group differences (eg why do some poor and or minority groups succeed, even when surrounded by disadvantage) rather than focusing all our energies on between group differences. Every time I raised this, I got these looks like ‘oh you’re just trying to say that because SOME people from disadvantaged backgrounds succeed, therefore the ones who don’t are lazy, right?’ And of course the answer to that questions is NO, as I believe that everyone all the time regardless of circumstances is doing the best they can — but secondly it really just reinforced in my own mind this idea that a lot of people out there fighting the good fight on issues of social justice are just trying to boost their egos because of their displeasure with their ability to handle their own issues — the idea that you could help individuals take better advantage of their circumstances by helping them understand themselves and therefore their perceptions of the world better, and allow them to take more effective action within their means, even if limited — I feel like that idea was threatening to everyone in that room, who preferred to think of EVERYTHING in their life and the lives of people they fought for as the product of structural circumstances beyond their control. And look, I mean, I believe a huge portion of what happens in a person’s life is due to issues around power differentials and structural forces — after all, I enrolled in a sociology degree! But that’s not the ONLY thing at work.

Rant ended, thank you for sharing your wife’s story and your well wishes!

I’ll add that I took a few psychology courses as electives in my program, and when I brought sociological ideas to challenge some of the more individual-focused theories in psychology, I found the discussions to be rigorous and exciting and collegial — no one was pulling me aside saying ‘you keep that commie bs out of our discussions!’

 

[Lukewarm Counselor]

It sounds like you're feeling confident in your current path. I won't press it further. (And for the record, it is perfectly okay if the MSW track is just not for you!)

Returning to your original post's questions, (as I am a master's level counselor myself), I would encourage newer students to set a high bar in the area of research. As a former PhD student, this is likely right up your alley already. Counseling largely boils down to two main areas:

1) The therapeutic counselor-client relationship
2) Evidence-based practices/techniques

Guess which of these two areas many master's programs will focus more heavily on... And while the therapeutic relationship/alliance is critical, I personally believe that too many therapists (particularly mid-levels) are not the best-trained consumers of research. (Don't get me wrong, many of them are quite competent.) But it does little good if a therapist builds wonderful therapeutic relationships with their clients, only to use ineffective or inappropriate techniques. At best, the therapist is guilty of unethically (and immorally!) taking their clients' money when not providing the services promised. At worst, they can cause severe harm to clients when using inappropriate techniques.

I encourage you to dig deep into your research skills. Set your standard very high, and demand this of your cohorts! Do this respectfully, of course. But do not be afraid to pick apart your cohorts' presentations or in classroom discussion if/when they propose inappropriate methods or techniques. Practicing this respectful criticism will only serve to build your own knowledge and understanding in EBTs. It is also an opportunity to practice your professional communication skills with colleagues.

As just one example, if a cohort suggests EMDR therapy for a case study, challenge them to explain why this modality is appropriate. Do not feel satisfied with vague answers like, "The literature shows it is effective and appropriate." Challenge your cohorts (and more importantly, YOURSELF), to fully explain how/why something is (or is not) appropriate in a given scenario.

There is no huge secret to a successful mid-level career in counseling. To be successful, one must become exceptional. As Matey noted, finding a niche/specialty area is helpful. But this part largely comes after the initial schooling. For now, most MA programs in counseling will be a time for generic training. This may feel counterintuitive for a graduate program. But there is just so much knowledge needed before practice, this degree is more about breadth. The depth aspect comes later in your CE.

To get the most out of your training, one must invest the most effort. Put your entire heart into your text reading and your school assignments. Near the end of your program, you will likely notice some cohorts who did only the bare minimum along the way and it will really start becoming painfully evident as graduation approaches. These "bare minimum" mid-level students face two likely career scenarios:

1) Imposter syndrome -- leading to swift burnout.
2) Dunning-Kruger effect -- leading to overconfidence/arrogance, and then really REALLY bad things can happen.

Continue connecting with experienced practitioners and consume all the advice and encouragement that you can stomach.

In my humble opinion, you can know you are a quality newer counselor if/when you selected a quality program, graduated near the top of your class, but then also feel like you are still barely qualified. Graduating from a program in mental health is not the finish line. On the contrary, it is the true starting line!

Enjoy and savor the journey, my friend! Keep up posted on your progress. And feel free to PM me anytime.

 

[deleted861354]

It sounds like you're feeling confident in your current path. I won't press it further. (And for the record, it is perfectly okay if the MSW track is just not for you!)

Returning to your original post's questions, (as I am a master's level counselor myself), I would encourage newer students to set a high bar in the area of research. As a former PhD student, this is likely right up your alley already. Counseling largely boils down to two main areas:

1) The therapeutic counselor-client relationship
2) Evidence-based practices/techniques

Guess which of these two areas many master's programs will focus more heavily on... And while the therapeutic relationship/alliance is critical, I personally believe that too many therapists (particularly mid-levels) are not the best-trained consumers of research. (Don't get me wrong, many of them are quite competent.) But it does little good if a therapist builds wonderful therapeutic relationships with their clients, only to use ineffective or inappropriate techniques. At best, the therapist is guilty of unethically (and immorally!) taking their clients' money when not providing the services promised. At worst, they can cause severe harm to clients when using inappropriate techniques.

I encourage you to dig deep into your research skills. Set your standard very high, and demand this of your cohorts! Do this respectfully, of course. But do not be afraid to pick apart your cohorts' presentations or in classroom discussion if/when they propose inappropriate methods or techniques. Practicing this respectful criticism will only serve to build your own knowledge and understanding in EBTs. It is also an opportunity to practice your professional communication skills with colleagues.

As just one example, if a cohort suggests EMDR therapy for a case study, challenge them to explain why this modality is appropriate. Do not feel satisfied with vague answers like, "The literature shows it is effective and appropriate." Challenge your cohorts (and more importantly, YOURSELF), to fully explain how/why something is (or is not) appropriate in a given scenario.

There is no huge secret to a successful mid-level career in counseling. To be successful, one must become exceptional. As Matey noted, finding a niche/specialty area is helpful. But this part largely comes after the initial schooling. For now, most MA programs in counseling will be a time for generic training. This may feel counterintuitive for a graduate program. But there is just so much knowledge needed before practice, this degree is more about breadth. The depth aspect comes later in your CE.

To get the most out of your training, one must invest the most effort. Put your entire heart into your text reading and your school assignments. Near the end of your program, you will likely notice some cohorts who did only the bare minimum along the way and it will really start becoming painfully evident as graduation approaches. These "bare minimum" mid-level students face two likely career scenarios:

1) Imposter syndrome -- leading to swift burnout.
2) Dunning-Kruger effect -- leading to overconfidence/arrogance, and then really REALLY bad things can happen.

Continue connecting with experienced practitioners and consume all the advice and encouragement that you can stomach.

In my humble opinion, you can know you are a quality newer counselor if/when you selected a quality program, graduated near the top of your class, but then also feel like you are still barely qualified. Graduating from a program in mental health is not the finish line. On the contrary, it is the true starting line!

Enjoy and savor the journey, my friend! Keep up posted on your progress. And feel free to PM me anytime.

Well, I have to say I'm grateful for your engaging me here, as you seem like exactly the kind of thoughtful, even-handed, intelligent person I'm hoping to surround myself with in my program! I especially appreciate your willingness to PM with me.

Everything you've said here resonates with my suspicions, and it is comforting to know I have a decent sense of both what to expect from school and what to do while I'm there. One question: What strategies do you recommend for my immersing myself in evidence-based practice? Of course, there is simply diving into the literature and looking at what does and doesn't work in what situations, but perhaps the greatest lesson I learned from my prior PhD program was that 15 minutes talking things through with a professor can save me 3 months of wrong turns (or at least inefficient ones). Since this will be a literature that is completely new to me, could you offer some guidance? Frankly, I do not have high expectations for the ability of faculty at my program to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to research quality (especially when it comes to identifying p-hacking effects and other common statistical errors -- these were sometimes beyond the knowledge even of some of my PhD program faculty, where I was at one of the top 5 programs in the world), so I'd be interested in hearing from you some good places to start -- and by good places, I mean journals with decent reputations, scholars known for rigorous work, and perhaps some findings that are actually robust across studies and times with particular subgroups (with the common facts being the most obvious one); I assume a lot of the good stuff is going to be outside of the counseling journals and will be in more generalist psychology and psychotherapeutic practice journals?

I'd be shocked if I didn't end up working with some combination of people suffering from depression, anxiety, and cluster b personality disorders, so any good literature places to start in those areas I'd be grateful for.

Thanks again for your time here -- you're taking my enthusiasm and candor quite seriously, and I really appreciate it.