How about starting to talk about our 2017 rank lists?

[mybubbles627]

Did you apply to the TY year in ERAS?

Yup. So I am not sure what the problem is.

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[misteratoz]

I quite liked NYU. Housing issues aside the training is clearly solid and the hours are great and the residents are happy.

I don't think they particularly care for research though...

 

[AdmiralChz]

I quite liked NYU. Housing issues aside the training is clearly solid and the hours are great and the residents are happy.

I don't think they particularly care for research though...

Every academic place listed above will be more than happy and even support you for research, but understand that your clinical (hands on) training is the main priority.

If you have an interest in research beyond case reports/series and retrospective chart review sort of stuff, it's going to be tough to get it during your clinical anesthesia training. Intensive research like this (often requiring IRB approval for a myriad of things) takes a lot of time you simply won't have with a restrictive residency schedule - they only have 3 clinical years to get all of your requirements in, which even in the most lenient programs may not be enough for a large project.

Many places offer research fellowships (or even just do a fellowship in a field you are interested in, most allow dedicated research time) that might be worth exploring. Some programs offer a 4 year track with dedicated research funding if you're interested. These sorts of things help with larger, more ambitious projects and make you more competitive for academic jobs (not sure it's particularly difficult to get a position, though).

 

[misteratoz]

Every academic place listed above will be more than happy and even support you for research, but understand that your clinical (hands on) training is the main priority.

If you have an interest in research beyond case reports/series and retrospective chart review sort of stuff, it's going to be tough to get it during your clinical anesthesia training. Intensive research like this (often requiring IRB approval for a myriad of things) takes a lot of time you simply won't have with a restrictive residency schedule - they only have 3 clinical years to get all of your requirements in, which even in the most lenient programs may not be enough for a large project.

Many places offer research fellowships (or even just do a fellowship in a field you are interested in, most allow dedicated research time) that might be worth exploring. Some programs offer a 4 year track with dedicated research funding if you're interested. These sorts of things help with larger, more ambitious projects and make you more competitive for academic jobs (not sure it's particularly difficult to get a position, though).

I appreciate the real talk. From my perspective, I care about going into academia because I want to be involved in teaching and doing complex cases. Research is a relatively low priority for me so long as it allows me to do those things. I just want to take the right steps to land a great academic gig. So I guess my question is whether lesser known but still excellent programs like NYU or UVA would allow me to accomplish this goal. I will most certainly be doing a fellowship.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I appreciate the real talk. From my perspective, I care about going into academia because I want to be involved in teaching and doing complex cases. Research is a relatively low priority for me so long as it allows me to do those things. I just want to take the right steps to land a great academic gig. So I guess my question is whether lesser known but still excellent programs like NYU or UVA would allow me to accomplish this goal. I will most certainly be doing a fellowship.

Of course both NYU and UVA would allow you to accomplish your goals. But, if academia is the GOAL then I recommend a top 10 program with National name recognition in a location you prefer.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I quite liked NYU. Housing issues aside the training is clearly solid and the hours are great and the residents are happy.

I don't think they particularly care for research though...

NYU is a very solid upper midtier program. Great clinical exposure but not a research powerhouse. I would recommend a bigger name program for your fellowship year or years after NYU. Ten years post Residency when you are climbing the Academic ladder which name do you want on your CV?

 

[BLADEMDA]

I quite liked NYU. Housing issues aside the training is clearly solid and the hours are great and the residents are happy.

I don't think they particularly care for research though...

Mt Sinai doesn't have housing issues and the residents are quite happy. The training is solid there as well.

 

[misteratoz]

Mt Sinai doesn't have housing issues and the residents are quite happy. The training is solid there as well.

I wish. I heard so many great things and then they rejected me. I don't understand admissions.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I wish. I heard so many great things and then they rejected me. I don't understand admissions.

No big deal. Lots of other fish in the sea. You will do just fine with your match list.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I want to say everyone who has posted their match list/possible list seems to have done their homework. You all are to be congratulated on the process. I do think that Med Students obsess to much over "which program is better rather than which program is better for me".

 

[psychbender]

I appreciate the real talk. From my perspective, I care about going into academia because I want to be involved in teaching and doing complex cases. Research is a relatively low priority for me so long as it allows me to do those things. I just want to take the right steps to land a great academic gig.

I'm going to address this common misconception. Complex cases are done outside of academia all of the time. First off, what do you consider complex cases? As a resident, I rotated through two hospitals that were largely private (private practice surgeons, private practice anesthesiologists) for CT cases, and those places were where I got my heart and lung transplants, as well as aortic dissections, some adult congenital cardiac, TAVR, and VAD and ECMO experience. There are neurosurgeons at non-academic hospitals that do cranis for all kinds of pathology regularly. There are also neurosurgery residency programs at places that do not have anesthesiology residency programs, and those private (or hospital-employed) anesthesiologists see the usual assortment of intracranial neurosurgical cases. Not everyone with cancer gets their care at one of a handful of quaternary referral centers, so Whipples, intrathoracic thyroids, carcinoids, ex-laps for 200lb tumors, and other cases are still done at regular hospitals. You can also check the Organ Procurement and Transplant Network to see who does how many of which transplants each year.

If, you meant that you want to spend a career taking care of the rarest of the rare, the sickest of the sick, with the newest, most cutting-edge procedures, then you don't actually want a job in academics; you want a job at one of a handful of quaternary academic centers that do that one particular thing. In that case, go through their anesthesiology department website, and look at the bios of their faculty, see where they trained, and start there.

Also, if you get in to a mid-tier residency, but have your heart set on working at a "top 10" hospital, you can still do that. Maybe you'll know someone there who can vouch for you. Maybe you'll match to a fellowship that the top 10 place actually needs at the moment. Or, maybe you'll get an initial job at another plain Jane academic program, move up the ranks a little bit, regularly attend society meetings, get a few publications or write a textbook chapter, and apply for a job at that big name place. Your first job does not have to be your forever job.

 

[La_Croix]

FiveThirtyEight: Hillary 71.4%
WSJ: Falcons have a 91.6% chance of winning Super Bowl
NRMP: 79.2% obtained one of their top 3 choices

 

[Sanj04]

When they say "top 3 choices", do they mean top three slots, or top three institutions? I applied to both categorical and advanced programs and I'm probably going to rank back-to-back categorical and advanced for the same program as my top two spots.

 

[Erakis]

Hi friends, let's do this.

So, I've got no geographic ties really and am single as heck and I'm starting to get the feeling that this whole rank list process is a huge convoluted game of Hey, So Where Do You Want to Live? Am I that far off-base in thinking this from the schools on my list? Anything I've really missed?

1-4 in some order
UCSD - outside chance of intubating a panda
UCLA - outside chance of intubating drew carey
Washington - strong chance of ending every psych consult with "Thanks for stopping by, Frasier"
OHSU - entire golden weekends consumed by waiting in line for brunch

5-8 in some order
Northwestern - recovering from full-on damage control of faculty turnover, seem to be taking the right steps
Cornell - Would be my runaway #1 if the 1BR across the street didn't go for $3000/month
NYU - most pointless, nondescript interview day of the year - "why anesthesia, why nyu, do you have any questions for me, this concludes our time")
BIDMC - seriously, i really liked these guys - seemed very focused on "what do you want to do with your life? well, here's how we can help."

9) Utah - SLC less Mormony than advertised, but no good draft beer for 4 years
10) Cleveland Clinic - Cleveland ((
11-14) Assorted others who I am sure would still give solid training

Thanks to all advice-givers I've followed on this forum over the years. You guys are really helpful, even (especially?) the perpetual doomsayers.

I hear you on Cornell. I was really in love with that program, and I tried for weeks to figure out if a budget would work for me (I have three kids), and there i no way it would happen. That is probably my biggest disappointment of the application cycle.

 

[deleted171991]

FiveThirtyEight: Hillary 71.4%
WSJ: Falcons have a 91.6% chance of winning Super Bowl
NRMP: 79.2% obtained one of their top 3 choices

Yay to another Math-challenged American medical student (and all those who Liked his/her reply).

You are mixing together probabilities with data. The NRMP is not forecasting, it's simply publishing their past data: they had A candidates in total, and out of them B matched with one of their top 3 choices on the match list, and B divided by A was 0.792. That's not a probability, that's data. And, as the say in investing: past performance should not be construed as a predictor of future performance.

 

[ljc]

Yay to another Math-challenged American medical student (and all those who Liked his/her reply).

You are mixing together probabilities with data. The NRMP is not forecasting, it's simply publishing their past data: they had A candidates in total, and out of them B matched with one of their top 3 choices on the match list, and B divided by A was 0.792. That's not a probability, that's data. And, as the say in investing: past performance should not be construed as a predictor of future performance.

You must be a ton of fun at parties.

 

[deleted171991]

You must be a ton of fun at parties.

You bet. Wait till you see me round 0.792 to 0, while drinking a beer. I learned it from the government, who has just said that 3.49 rounds down to 3, hence it is not more than 3.

P.S. You think I am the bad guy here, but medicine is a lot about being able to discern the "fake news" in "research" studies.

 

[deleted162650]

You bet. Wait till you see me round 0.792 to 0.79 , while drinking a beer. I learned it from the government, who has just said that 3.49 rounds down to 3, hence it is not more than 3.

Either you mean 0.079 or you just took drinking to whole new level.

 

[gaspasser127]

Hey guys! Revising my rank list and trying to figure out UNC vs. Emory. Location is a priority for me and they're both relatively close to home so that's good.

Any thoughts?

 

[Erakis]

Hey guys! Revising my rank list and trying to figure out UNC vs. Emory. Location is a priority for me and they're both relatively close to home so that's good.

Any thoughts?

I am currently in school at UNC and have done two anesthesia rotations during my fourth year. The residents really are happy and work really well together. There is a nice mix of being a laid back program with a decent case mix and attendings that love to teach. The work hours are reasonable and nobody ever seems tired. It is a great place to go if you plan on starting a family as well.

 

[teacher2md]

There is a nice mix of being a laid back program with a decent case mix and attendings that love to teach.

Why only a 'decent' case mix? Anything that they're short on, in your opinion?

From what I've gathered, they do trauma, transplants (heart/lung/liver/kidney), lots of peds, good pain & regional. And few fellows to compete with.

Full disclosure: I'll be ranking them highly.

 

[La_Croix]

Yay to another Math-challenged American medical student (and all those who Liked his/her reply).

You are mixing together probabilities with data. The NRMP is not forecasting, it's simply publishing their past data: they had A candidates in total, and out of them B matched with one of their top 3 choices on the match list, and B divided by A was 0.792. That's not a probability, that's data. And, as the say in investing: past performance should not be construed as a predictor of future performance.

It's not that serious

 

[UNCmd2017]

Hey guys! Revising my rank list and trying to figure out UNC vs. Emory. Location is a priority for me and they're both relatively close to home so that's good.

Any thoughts?

I interviewed at both. I feel like you will get excellent training at both, but I perceived the residents as much happier at UNC. Emory has an ACGME warning right now. When I asked in my interview what it was for, my interviewee said it was because the previous CA3's were really unhappy. He made vague references to some changes they made but nothing specific. I'll be ranking UNC significantly higher than Emory.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I interviewed at both. I feel like you will get excellent training at both, but I perceived the residents as much happier at UNC. Emory has an ACGME warning right now. When I asked in my interview what it was for, my interviewee said it was because the previous CA3's were really unhappy. He made vague references to some changes they made but nothing specific. I'll be ranking UNC significantly higher than Emory.

I'd say the programs are pretty equal. But, the locations are very different (Chapel Hill vs Atlanta) and the overall "gestalt" for the programs are far apart. Emory is a good program and if you like Atlanta don't be afraid to rank it highly. That said, I love the bagels in Chapel Hill.

 

[Erakis]

Why only a 'decent' case mix? Anything that they're short on, in your opinion?

From what I've gathered, they do trauma, transplants (heart/lung/liver/kidney), lots of peds, good pain & regional. And few fellows to compete with.

Full disclosure: I'll be ranking them highly.

They are a tertiary hospital. They get everything. They are very heavy on peds and neuro and big liver cases are very common. Cardiac used to be a little short, but Duke was willing to pick up the slack and let residents do rotations. That never actually needed to happen. From what I have heard, cardiac numbers are going up. I only used the word "decent" because UNC does not usually get the one in a million case that other top programs may boast. You get everything you need and will be well positioned for any fellowship you want.

 

[BLADEMDA]

They are a tertiary hospital. They get everything. They are very heavy on peds and neuro and big liver cases are very common. Cardiac used to be a little short, but Duke was willing to pick up the slack and let residents do rotations. That never actually needed to happen. From what I have heard, cardiac numbers are going up. I only used the word "decent" because UNC does not usually get the one in a million case that other top programs may boast. You get everything you need and will be well positioned for any fellowship you want.

I agree with your post. That fellowship could be at Duke which is just down the road. UNC is more laid back than Duke (that's a good thing) and probably a nicer day to day environment.

Emory is a harder program than UNC but the training is excellent. I wouldn't let the "warning" stop you from ranking the place highly. Instead, the question is do you like Atlanta over Chapel Hill and do you mind working longer hours in the O.R. (but great case experience). You won't have any trouble getting good Fellowships after doing your training at Emory.

I like Chapel Hill better than Atlanta but it's all personal preference as the single life in Atlanta is quite good.

 

[smv1200]

Trying to decide between UVA and Mt Sinai for higher up on my list. Here's how I see them:

UVA
-Pros: nice residents, relatively cheap living and closer to home, good case exposure, no fellows, decent fellowship placement, stable and seemingly encouraging faculty
-Cons: Charlottesville, many residents go straight to PP for whatever reason, weaker Peds and OB (although I don't really care about either one tbh)

Mt Sinai
-Pros: awesome leadership (PD is incredible), maybe slightly higher rep than UVA (idk), living in NYC with subsidized housing + moonlighting
-Cons: further from home, wasn't overly impressed with fellowship match list( although many ppl stay put at Sinai so harder to gauge), older facilities, harder working but def does not seem malignant

How do other people see this? I am more concerned with program strength and fellowship and job placement after residency than location. Any help would be appreciated

 

[RISCy Buisness]

Throwaway account

Finished up traveling a couple weeks ago, having serious trouble getting my ROL in line. I've been able to get programs into three rough groups, but can't figure out the order in these groups. Order of top 5, and top 2 groups is super fluctuant as well. Actually, I've already flipped programs around all three groups like ten times. All of the programs in the first two groups have a lot I really liked about them, with separation (so far…) based solely on the ubiquitous gut-feeling and location. Any input or impressions from you guys would be much appreciated, I'm clearly struggling with this! My three groups:

Group 1
- Pitt
- UofM
- UVA
- WashU
- NYU

Group 2
- Wake
- UAB
- Northwestern
- Maryland
- Dartmouth
- Florida

Group 3
- Henry Ford
- Cleveland Clinic
- Cincinnati
- Miami

 

[Psai]

Trying to decide between UVA and Mt Sinai for higher up on my list. Here's how I see them:

UVA
-Pros: nice residents, relatively cheap living and closer to home, good case exposure, no fellows, decent fellowship placement, stable and seemingly encouraging faculty
-Cons: Charlottesville, many residents go straight to PP for whatever reason, weaker Peds and OB (although I don't really care about either one tbh)

Mt Sinai
-Pros: awesome leadership (PD is incredible), maybe slightly higher rep than UVA (idk), living in NYC with subsidized housing + moonlighting
-Cons: further from home, wasn't overly impressed with fellowship match list( although many ppl stay put at Sinai so harder to gauge), older facilities, harder working but def does not seem malignant

How do other people see this? I am more concerned with program strength and fellowship and job placement after residency than location. Any help would be appreciated

Sounds like you want uva

 

[polar403]

I'm going to address this common misconception. Complex cases are done outside of academia all of the time. First off, what do you consider complex cases? As a resident, I rotated through two hospitals that were largely private (private practice surgeons, private practice anesthesiologists) for CT cases, and those places were where I got my heart and lung transplants, as well as aortic dissections, some adult congenital cardiac, TAVR, and VAD and ECMO experience. There are neurosurgeons at non-academic hospitals that do cranis for all kinds of pathology regularly. There are also neurosurgery residency programs at places that do not have anesthesiology residency programs, and those private (or hospital-employed) anesthesiologists see the usual assortment of intracranial neurosurgical cases. Not everyone with cancer gets their care at one of a handful of quaternary referral centers, so Whipples, intrathoracic thyroids, carcinoids, ex-laps for 200lb tumors, and other cases are still done at regular hospitals. You can also check the Organ Procurement and Transplant Network to see who does how many of which transplants each year.

I trained at a residency that was level 1 trauma center and had what I thought was plenty of complex cases and sick patients. The residents graduated and were well respected and had no problem getting solid jobs (or fellowships). Very thankful for my training. Currently in private practice and I take care of patients who are just as (or more) sick than residency and do just as many (or more) complex cases -- at a faster pace and less cancellations for "academic reasons." I did not feel underprepared at all. Complex cases and sick patients are job security.

Go where you feel like you will fit in, you can stand to live regionally (perhaps even after residency) and the residents are happy and get great jobs/fellowships post-residency. Everyone who finishes an accredited residency has the opportunity to be board certified. Forget about Doximity, trust your gut.

 

[Steege305]

Trying to decide between UVA and Mt Sinai for higher up on my list. Here's how I see them:

UVA
-Pros: nice residents, relatively cheap living and closer to home, good case exposure, no fellows, decent fellowship placement, stable and seemingly encouraging faculty
-Cons: Charlottesville, many residents go straight to PP for whatever reason, weaker Peds and OB (although I don't really care about either one tbh)

Mt Sinai
-Pros: awesome leadership (PD is incredible), maybe slightly higher rep than UVA (idk), living in NYC with subsidized housing + moonlighting
-Cons: further from home, wasn't overly impressed with fellowship match list( although many ppl stay put at Sinai so harder to gauge), older facilities, harder working but def does not seem malignant

How do other people see this? I am more concerned with program strength and fellowship and job placement after residency than location. Any help would be appreciated

Ok, if I can read BLADEMDA's bs on which program is "harder" then I feel entitled (oh yeah, I said entitled) to throw this out here. While Sinai may not be the most traditionally academic program, we are the strongest clinical program in the country.

"The king stay the king"

 

[Nivens]

Ok, if I can read BLADEMDA's bs on which program is "harder" then I feel entitled (oh yeah, I said entitled) to throw this out here. While Sinai may not be the most traditionally academic program, we are the strongest clinical program in the country.

"The king stay the king"

And this claim is based on....

 

[BLADEMDA]

Ok, if I can read BLADEMDA's bs on which program is "harder" then I feel entitled (oh yeah, I said entitled) to throw this out here. While Sinai may not be the most traditionally academic program, we are the strongest clinical program in the country.

"The king stay the king"

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid

 

[Steege305]

And this claim is based on....

Exactly.

 

[Steege305]

And this claim is based on....

But for real though.

 

[deleted162650]

Look out CCF. Sounds like Sinai is the real "2nd to none".

 

[PonyUp]

Sinai
the strongest clinical program in the country.

Hahahahahahahahaahha

 

[Psai]

Ok, if I can read BLADEMDA's bs on which program is "harder" then I feel entitled (oh yeah, I said entitled) to throw this out here. While Sinai may not be the most traditionally academic program, we are the strongest clinical program in the country.

"The king stay the king"

Rofl nice try

 

[Steege305]

Most of the conversation on this thread is absurd. Applicants, go where you want!!! Don't listen to any of these people (myself included)!!

 

[smv1200]

.

 

[Bru]

Thanks guys. So one last decision I'm trying to make is between Baylor and Maryland. Assuming location isn't a factor, any ideas which is considered stronger nationally?

Baylor IMHO from chats with various attendings but I'd defer to others with more experience.

 

[smv1200]

.

 

[nimbus]

Yeah i figured... Baylor is associated with some bad ass hospitals (texas childrens, texas heart, md anderson), although UMD's shock trauma is top notch too. Decisions, decisions

I don't have first hand knowledge but Ben Taub is supposed to be a busy trauma center too...."top notch"......even though it doesn't have "shock" in the name. That name was marketing genius.

 

[DeepSleep]

Any suggestions/insights on ranking UT Houston vs Mayo Jacksonville? Thinking Peds Anest fellowship, non-academia.

UT Houston - Large (24), Trans. Yr.
- Hospitals: Memorial Hermann (Adult & Children's) plus Texas Children's, MD Anderson, Houston Methodist, Texas Heart & LBJ.
- Fellowships: Peds, Card, CC, Neuro, & Trauma plus Pain @ MD Anderson.
- Pros: Clinically very strong, large case volume/variety, largest medical center in world, AAs not CNRA's, moonlighting.
- Cons: Work-horse program (long hours/less study time), didactics not strongest, light research.

Mayo Jacksonville - Small (4), Prelim. Med. Yr.
- Hospitals: Mayo Jax plus Wolfson Children's & U of FL Jax.
- Fellowships: Peds, Pain, & Regional.
- Pros: Excellent training, , Mayo name, large educ fund, shorter hours, close to beach.
- Cons: Peds, OB & Trauma training offsite, train CNRAs, Mayo dress code, light research, older patient pop.

 

[partydoc]

Any suggestions/insights on ranking UT Houston vs Mayo Jacksonville? Thinking Peds Anest fellowship, non-academia.

UT Houston - Large (24), Trans. Yr.
- Hospitals: Memorial Hermann (Adult & Children's) plus Texas Children's, MD Anderson, Houston Methodist, Texas Heart & LBJ.
- Fellowships: Peds, Card, CC, Neuro, & Trauma plus Pain @ MD Anderson.
- Pros: Clinically very strong, large case volume/variety, largest medical center in world, AAs not CNRA's, moonlighting.
- Cons: Work-horse program (long hours/less study time), didactics not strongest, light research.

Mayo Jacksonville - Small (4), Prelim. Med. Yr.
- Hospitals: Mayo Jax plus Wolfson Children's & U of FL Jax.
- Fellowships: Peds, Pain, & Regional.
- Pros: Excellent training, , Mayo name, large educ fund, shorter hours, close to beach.
- Cons: Peds, OB & Trauma training offsite, train CNRAs, Mayo dress code, light research, older patient pop.

If you're thinking PP I would go with the program closest to the area you want to end up in.

 

[DeepSleep]

If you're thinking PP I would go with the program closest to the area you want to end up in.

Thank you, that helps. Have you heard anything about either program?

 

[Putemtosleep]

Any positive or negative opinions for the following programs?

UT San Antonio
UTMB
U Kentucky
Louisville
VCU

 

[Logano2230]

Any positive or negative opinions for the following programs?

UT San Antonio
UTMB
U Kentucky
Louisville
VCU

UK has a really good and easier CBY and strong program director who is focused on resident education.

 

[abolt18]

Any positive or negative opinions for the following programs?

UT San Antonio
UTMB
U Kentucky
Louisville
VCU

Loved both of these programs. Due to location Kentucky is higher on my list. PD is so committed to resident education and well-being. Residents all seemed very happy.

UTHSCSA is much farther away from everything and everyone in my life, otherwise it would be much higher on my list. The people there were cool. The Chair seemed very down to earth. I think you do a lot of surgery in intern year though

 

[deleted162650]

Due to location Kentucky is higher on my list

Pretty sure that's the first time anyone has ever said that.