Hope Medical/Poland Med Schools

[Neeja]

Hi everyone- I am new to these posts and was just wondering if anyone has decided to go to Poland through the Hope Medical Institute- Univ. of Silesia. It is one of my options, and I just wanted to know if anyone else was attending!

Thank you,
Neeja

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[ApacheIndian]

Be careful. HMI is a very shady organization. Do your homework. It's your life on the line, choose wisely.

Good luck.

(edited to cut out melodrama )

 

[hndrx1a]

KINDA DIFFICULT TO TAKE YOUR ADVICE ABOUT NOT GOING TO FOREIGN MED SCHOOLS NOW, CUTS, WITH THOSE GLORIOUS RESIDENCIES UNDERNEATH YOUR POST!

 

[Badkarma25]

why is it difficult to take his advice? he's not talking about the school he attended...i think his advice is perfectly acceptable. i don't know much about st. eustatius but i know that dote hungary is a well respected school that has been operating for hundreds of years and has many grads all over the place. obviously the schools dr. cuts attended can't be that bad or he wouldn't be in a u.s. residency right now.

 

[hndrx1a]

IT WAS MEANT IN FUN KARMA; AS CUTS WOULD ATTEST, HIS EARLY POSTS DEALT ALOT WITH THE ERROR OF GOING TO A FOREIGN MED SCHOOL...BUT, AS YOU POINTED OUT YOURSELF:
THE GUY DID IT! HE GOT IN THE RESIDENCY OF HIS CHOICE THRU HARD WORK & PRESERVERENCE; MYSELF, I BELIEVE THESE UNIVERSITIES ARE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO GET THE MD- WHAT YOUR ULTIMATE OUTCOME IS, DEPENDS ALOT ON YOU, AS CUTS HIMSELF PROVED.

 

[neilc]

i also would reccomend against poland. i know several very unhappyfolks from there. also, as i recall, hope charges you some ridiculous fees, above and beyond tuition. that is such a joke. stay away from agents, they do nothing that you cannot do yourself for free or at least very cheap. most good schools have reps or offices that do what agents do and do not charge you. they are paid out of your tuition, which is how it should be.

there are lots of options in eastern europe. many of them are good, some suck...all are a lot different than the US. be prepared to work hard and be homesick. so, make sure that you at least go to a cool city, and don't spend a bunchof extra cash!

check out hungary and the czech republic. and if you want a four year program (i am guessing that is why you like poland) then go to the carib. also check out australia and ireland, they are great options as well.

good luck

 

[ApacheIndian]

Sorry... maybe I was a bit melodramatic with my first post .

My intention wasn't to disparage European medicine--I was actually dissuading the OP from getting mixed up with HMI. I originally began medical school in Hungary with HMI. Paid M.P. (the owner) almost 10K to do so, as did about another 120 students. He promised everyone that it was a "great education" and they were now "part of the HMI family." He told all the hopeful parents that HMI would do everything they could do see these kids through school--to see that they succeed.

Now--years later--out of those 120 that started with me, maybe 10 are graduating. All I'm advising is that the OP do his/her research... don't take everything that HMI tells you at face value. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Neeja]

Well, I'm a little bit confused, so if you could clarify, Dr. Cuts, I'd appreciate it. Was there a problem with the school, style of learning, or overall atmosphere that prevented many in your school from graduating? I've spoken to a few people in the Hope program at Poland and they seem to speak more about the school rather than HMI itself. I'm not so concerned about feeling like a family, as I am about the level of education I will receive and the ability to pass boards and gain a reputable residency in the states. Can you clarify? And again, thank you for your replies!

 

[redleft123]

Read the threads on page 2 (or maybe page 3 by now). And be very careful; don't get yourself into something you will only regret later.

cheers

 

[ApacheIndian]

Originally posted by Neeja
Well, I'm a little bit confused, so if you could clarify, Dr. Cuts, I'd appreciate it. Was there a problem with the school, style of learning, or overall atmosphere that prevented many in your school from graduating? I've spoken to a few people in the Hope program at Poland and they seem to speak more about the school rather than HMI itself. I'm not so concerned about feeling like a family, as I am about the level of education I will receive and the ability to pass boards and gain a reputable residency in the states. Can you clarify? And again, thank you for your replies!

I can only really comment on Katowice & Lublin. I don' t know much about the others. I would be curious to know which students you spoke to about the programs--I have heard that many of them receive "favors" from M.P. in return for endorsing HMI and the Polish schools... i.e. there is a clear conflict of interest in many cases.

You seem bright. It would be unfortunate if you chose poorly at this point in your life. If you want to know more, maybe we should take it to e-mail. I'm pretty sure I could tell you some things you would be very interested in knowing. Drop me a line sometime and I'll give you the inside scoop. Take care.

 

[Stephen Ewen]

It gives me considerable pleasure to extend hearty CONGRATULATIONS to Dr. Cuts on his recent success in obtaining a residency in his field of choice, radiology.

Dr. Cuts, many of us have watched your course toward fulfillment of your medical education over the last few years or so. You have shown that very hard work and an ardently followed vision, even amidst less-than perfect circumstances, can work toward a very advantageous end. You have thereby become an example to those who would follow behind you within a similar course.

I would venture that you have not only become an excellent physician, but that you have become one with the sort of excellent character needed to make your skills most truly useful. Despite some initial doubts that you once had, you rightly fought the doubts back and met the doubts with very hard work and self-initiative. Now you are rightly rewarded.

I would also venture that, for your having pressed forward within the knowledge-giving and character-building experiences you have, you have a very lot to now turn and give to others. This is especially so as you embark now within yet another season of learning within your chosen residency field, which will prepare you for not only a lifetime of service, but for still more learning, as you acquire it day-by-day in interaction with and/or on behalf of your patients.

CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN, and may each day see you becoming and increasingly more excellent healer on behalf of your current and future patients!

Best to you!

Stephen Ewen

 

[Celiac Plexus]

You peeps should listen to Cuts.

I admire Cuts tremendously for his dedication, and stalwart pursuit of his dream. However, I would venture to say that he is the statistical outlier. He scored higher than 90%+ of US MD seniors on Step I and Step II. He applied to almost every rads program out there and still only got a relative handful of interviews. And, if I recall, went to midway down his rank list to match. And though LSU-Baton Rouge is probably a fine place to train, it's not like Cuts got to pick and choose like he would have been able to had he attended a US school. He had to take whatever bone was thrown to him.

You will probably NOT be able to match his academic record, and even if you do, it will STILL be a crap shoot as far as matching goes.

I would listen to what he has to say. Of any of the posters on this site, he is probably the guy you should believe if you are thinking of attending an international med school.

Peace.

And congrats again Dr. Cuts!

 

[rirriri]

Dr. Cuts is a good friend of mine and I too attended Hungary with him when i first began.

I chose to transfer to Poland after 2 years and thus far it has turned into a good decision on my part. I have had US Clinical rotations (just like any carribean student) and my classmates (the ones who actually *work* to get somewhere) have landed decent residencies.

International medical education is more dependant on the student than it is the school.

I am not an advocate of HMI nor do i think it is the *best* option...but it has worked for me thus far. 0f course the ultimate test of my education will come next year during the *match*....but the results of the match are dependant on MY achievements (USMLE, Rotations, Interviewing) and that is what ?ts all about.

I highly recommend Dr. Cuts' opinions....i use them everyday in my studies and he has already helped me tremendously in my academic life. I also believe that people should choose what is best for themselves and not only listen to someone else's opinion.

I *do not* agree with Cuts representing HMI as some kind of lying and cheating organization who misrepresents everything. Their job is to *sell* their programs. Similiar to many of the shady carribbean schools that sell their programs.......as far as i know...i was told i would have US rotations and i D0 have them....i will be graduating next May just as expected. Where is the scam there? i don't see it. *MANY* students did fail out of those eastern european programs, but that wasn't due to the schools being bad, that was due to the quality of students being bad. I'm not gonna hide information and say that all the students attending those schools are *brilliant* because they aren't.

To summarize...i *do* recommend the Polish schools...but only if you are self-motivated, aggressive, focused in relation to your learning process. IF you aren't any of those, i suggest going to one of the many other schools where your environment will cater better to your needs (e.g Ireland, Carribbean, India). I'm not saying that students from those forementioned countries/areas are not self-motivated and focused, but i think it is vital in order to benefit from the Polish programs.

cheers

PS: don't ever listen to people like Celiac Plexus (hehe, just kidding....sort of)

 

[ApacheIndian]

Stephen & Celiac Plexus... thanks a lot . I'm still on cloud 9 about my good fortune last month. I feel incredibly thankful and forever grateful for the way things turned out for me.

Rirriri is a cool cat--even cooler after his recent aquisition of a phat little Audi Quattro . That said, I think him supporting the Polish medical schools and HMI represents a clear bias. Rirriri, you say that your decision has "turned out o.k thus far" and that you have classmates that have "landed decent residencies." Forgive me, but those are pretty vague statements. Care to elaborate? Boards scores? Attempts? Exact residencies and locations? I know the answers but I'll leave them for you to post (if you so choose).

I think Celiac hit the nail on the head. Yes, I got a foreign degree--from 2 different schools nonetheless (a "double-whammy" according to one PD I interviewed with)--and yeah, thankfully I got a decent residency spot (great for me, but overall far from the best--Celiac is right on about this). But that does not mean that I endorse the route I took NO WAY. If anything my journey has taught me a lot about the tumultuous path one embarks on when he chooses to go to a foreign med school. Sure it is possible to succeed--examples abound... Apollyon, Doctim, Bellkicker, Pill Counter, NeilC, Nvrsumr, Stormreaver... but like Celiac said, they are the exceptions, not the rules. You don't hear about the others, but I think we all can imagine where they are...what they're doing... and it ain't pretty!

Bottom line: If you go foreign you start out with the deck stacked against you... you start out with a significant handicap. So if you have the choice don't do it. If you must go foreign and you have the money, go to 1)SGU or 2)Ross. If you wanna save some loot and have a great time, go to Charles in Prague or maybe Australia (not sure how pricey it is there). Do NOT go Polish.

I hope everyone does great and has the opportunity to fulfill their dreams like I've been fortunate enough to. Good luck to you all.

 

[rirriri]

Let me start off by saying: I agree totally with Dr. Cuts that if someone can *avoid* going to a foreign route, the they should avoid it by all means. None of these foreign educational plans are equal to a US route. That being said i am not *encouraging* anyone to go to ANY foreign schools.

I never said Poland is a top program or that i think it is one of the best....however i do consider it to be *A* means of getting an MD. 0ne that I currently am using and doing so successfully. None of the Eastern European schools are any better than each other....the schools in Hungary were *no better* than the ones in Poland, i considered them equal as i attended both. My ex-girlfriend and myself visited Charles University in Prague when she was thinking of transferring, and after checking it out, she determined that it was no superior in its plan to Lublin in Poland.

I had the opportunity to transfer to Ross when i decided to transfer to Poland. I remember discussing this situation WITH Dr. Cuts when I was making this decision a few years ago. I chose to go to Poland, because Ross provided no advantage to me.

Those E. European schools all run on their own traditions and their own system. None of them are extremely geared towards USMLE studies, however they do try to integrate the US system and have been moving increasingly towards a USMLE-based system.

Bias? of course there is bias...everyone wants to defend their education, especially if that person truly believes in its validity. I would have done the same things as a person had I have attended Poland, Prague, Australia, Ireland, UK, etc....in the end, i will always be........rirriri...and I will do things MY WAY regardless of where I went to school.

Me? i have no complaints right now. I have US rotations, i'm studying for my Step 2. Any mistakes I have made in my studies I made under my own discretion. I don't wish to argue this point any further, because it's not a matter of argument, it's a matter of experiences. My essential point is that Poland is a valid country to obtain a medical education, as much as any other country in Eastern Europe and even carribbean programs.

To the original poster who is debating going to Poland or wherever, i fully agree with Dr. Cuts....*do your homework!!!*. Too many people go to schools in Eastern Europe without researching what they are getting themselves into. Know the US licensing rules, know the ECFMG rules, study how people are doing in those schools during the match, etc, etc....

cheers CUTS (call me when you get back tomorrow)!! and CHEERS to you all.

PS. USMLE *scores* and *attempts* are totally dependent on the student (you already know this Dr. Cuts). Carribbean, European, Indian students ALL have to be self sufficient during these exams. I don't credit any mistakes on these exams to my University, as you don't credit your successes on these exams to your universities.

 

[ApacheIndian]

Sage words Rirriri... I'll give you a ring tomorrow...

 

[Poesie Noire]

just keep in mind that one drawback with ross/auc/st.georges is that because of their large class sizes, usually the top 10% are gauranteed all clinicals in the u.s. whereas others go mostly to england. although im not from those schools ive done rotations with many students from those schools and they've all unanimously agree on that point. i agree with everything posted by dr. cuts and rirriri. bottom line...if you have the work ethic and heart, you should be able to graduate from anywhere (poland,hungary,or caribbean) and hopefully get in the residency of your choice. personally, i think if you've already have a college degree then you should only look into 4 year programs in europe or in the caribbean, or wherever else they're offered. in my experience in med school in europe ive noticed that most that came with college degrees or experience usually had the experierence or maturity to get through their respective programs and the board exams regardless of whether they were in poland, hungary, czech republic, etc. then again, there are some i knew who came straight out of high school and will eventually practice in some of the most lucrative specialties (optho/rads/ortho). so its done both ways but college experience will eventually help you in ways you might not see now...wherever you go. if you're coming straight out of high school, perhaps a 6 year program or even a 7 year program is better for you. another thing is that although you should look for a school that can provide clinicals in the u.s., in the end if you cannot....you can still setup clinicals yourself through independent organizations. if you have any questions regarding these issues, feel free to pm or e-mail me. take care and best of luck!

 

[Madrad]

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum, however being a graduate from an english language program in Poland, I feel compelled to offer my two cents. Both Cuts and ririrri bring up valid points regarding medical studies in Poland. It is by all means a viable alternative to obtaining a medical degree outside the US. Many people have returned with residencies in hand. This path to obtaining an MD however is not for everyone.
Despite how these schools are marketed, it is no easy task surviving the educational process there. Studying medicine is inherently difficult as it is. In poland moreso, additional concerns arise adding to the challenges of reaching the ultimate goal; residency in the US. There is no USMLE prep. Academic Guidance and support throughout the 4 years is completely lacking. Profs may spend countless hours lecturing on topics relevant to their research and totally irrelevant to the USMLE's. Local culture and customs are quite different from what we are used to which only complicates matters. Due to the relatively lax admission standards, your classmates will come from all walks of life. Some probably should not have gone into medicine, (This is true for every medical school)

On the positive side, it can be a fun place to spend a few years. The people are quite hospitable and are interested in americans. European diplomas are generally well recieved in the US. Most of these Universities have been around for a long time and have established facilities and a sense of academic tradition. You just have to know how to take advantage of it.

Needless to say, most of us training in the USA now do so DESPITE the system in poland not so much thanks to it.
My advice: visit before signing up. Speak to current students and get a feel of what the overall sentiment is. The time and money is well worth it and you can mentally prepare for what lies ahead.
If you are graduating high school, don't even consider the 6 year programs. Try college first and get into an american school. It will save you alot of headaches down the road.
If you choose the polish route, commit to it and work the hardest you've ever worked in your life. The effort will make you a better person and you will learn survival skills essential to residency. It is amazing how some can whine and complain non-stop for 4 straight years only to get nowhere.
Don't transfer schools unless it is to an american school. State License boards need documentation of every place you've ever been, which can be problematic depending on which state board you apply to. Attendance at multiple schools raises eyebrows not only with medical boards but with residency program directors as well.

IF YOU GRADUATED FROM A 4 YEAR PROGRAM IN POLAND, YOU ARE INELIGIBLE FOR CALIFORNIA STATE LICENSURE, PERIOD NO EXCEPTIONS. The same may be true for new Mexico.

Lastly, a little respect, humbleness an open mind and willingness to integrate anywhere abroad goes a long way.

 

[MI6]

Hey Poiesie,

If you could give me the gory details on setting up US clinicals while at a foreign school (Charles in my case), that would be grrrreat!

Thanks a bunch

 

[neilc]

hey ethan, i am also at charles..drop me a line if you need info on the stateside clinicals

[email protected]

see ya

 

[iza0iza]

I was wondering in anyone is attending.. has attended.. or is planning to attend Karol Marcinkowski U. in Poznan.. if let me know.. also ... I'm starting to get a little bit iffy about my decision to study in Poland... mainly because of some of the negative comments I've been hearing from people... the school I am attending does not deal with HMI... there are no hidden fees .. but because of the posts I have been reading on this website ... http://www.network54.com/Forum/183613 I've become very confused... can anyone studying in Poland give me some encouragment... advice? thanks

Izabel