Highest starting salary

[LADoc00]

Random salary survey question: Starting salary numbers for just out of residency and/or fellowship. Including everything: pension, signing bonus, moving allocation etc. Please include speciality if known. I dont want to know partner level salary, salary after 2-3 years at Kaiser or any crap like that as I already have a pretty good idea of where salaries end up, just starting.

My numbers are 120 (lowest end, academic surgical path) up to 240 (private practice hemepath/dermpath, highest Ive verified).

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[LADoc00]

Recent 2003-2004 data someone emailed me (please excuse crap formatting):

U.S. Physician Salaries - Ongoing Salary Survey
*Survey includes base salaries, net income or hospital guarantees minus expenses
SPECIALTY Years 1-2 >3 Max
Allergy/ Immunology $158,000 $221,000 $487,000
Ambulatory $ 80,000 $112,000 $152,000
Anesthesiology: Pediatrics $ 283,000 $311,000 $378,000
Anesthesiology: General $207,000 $275,000 $448,000
Anesthesiology: Pain Management $315,000 $370,000 $651,000
Cardiology: Invasive $258,000 $395,000 $647,000
Cardiology: Interventional $290,000 $468,000 $811,000
Cardiology: Noninvasive $268,000 $403,000 $599,000
Critical Care $187,000 $215,000 $320,000
Dermatology $ 195,000 $308,000 $452,000
Emergency Medicine $192,000 $216,000 $295,000
Endocrinology $171,000 $187,000 $260,000
FP (with OB) $182,000 $204,000 $241,000
FP (w/o OB) $161,000 $135,000 $239,000
FP - Sports Medicine $ 152,000 $208,000 $363,000
FP - Urgent Care $ 128,000 $198,000 $299,000
Gastroenterology $265,000 $349,000 $590,000
Hematology/Oncology $181,348 $245,000 $685,000
Infectious Disease $154,000 $178,000 $271,000
Internal Medicine $154,000 $176,000 $238,000
IM (Hospitalist) $161,000 $172,000 $245,000
Medicine/Pediatrics $139,000 $168,000 $271,000
Medical Oncology $198,000 $257,000 $455,000
Neonatal Medicine $286,000 $310,000 $381,000
Nephrology $191,000 $269,000 $447,000
Neurology $180,000 $228,000 $345,000
Obstetrics/Gynecology $211,000 $261,000 $417,000
Gynecology $159,000 $213,000 $358,000
Maternal/Fetal Medicine $286,000 $322,000 $610,000
Occupational Medicine $139,000 $185,000 $290,000
Ophthalmology $138,000 $314,000 $511,000
Ophthalmology Retina $280,000 $469,000 $716,000
Orthopedic Surgery $256,000 $342,000 $670,000
ORS - Foot & Ankle $228,000 $392,000 $791,000
ORS - Hand & Upper Extremities $288,000 $459,000 $770,000
ORS - Hip & Joint Replacement $330,000 $491,000 $715,000
ORS - Spine Surgery $398,000 $670,000 $1,352,000
ORS - Sports Medicine $266,000 $479,000 $762,000
Otorhinolaryngology $194,000 $311,000 $516,000
Pathology $169,000 $321,000 $610,000
Pediatrics $135,000 $175,000 $271,000
Pediatrics - Cardiology $145,000 $282,000 $607,000
Pediatrics - Critical Care $196,000 $259,000 $398,000
Pediatrics - Hematology/Oncology $182,000 $217,000 $251,000
Pediatrics - Neurology $175,000 $189,000 $362,000
Physiatry $169,000 $244,000 $313,000
Podiatry $128,000 $168,000 $292,000
Psychiatry $149,000 $169,000 $238,000
Psychiatry - Child and Adolescent $158,000 $189,000 $265,000
Pulmonary Medicine + Critical Care $215,000 $288,000 $417,000
Radiation Oncology $241,000 $385,000 $787,000
Radiology $201,000 $354,000 $911,000
Rheumatology $179,000 $229,000 $378,000
Surgery - General $226,000 $291,000 $520,000
Surgery - Cardiovascular $336,000 $515,000 $811,000
Surgery - Neurological $354,000 $541,000 $936,000
Surgery - Plastic $237,000 $412,000 $820,000
Surgery - Vascular $270,000 $329,000 $525,000
Urology $261,000 $358,000 $619,000

 

[Pingu]

610,000...I think I could handle that

 

[pongo]

Two of the seniors in my dept are starting out in the 250 - 300 range in private practice in semi-rural northeastern areas. No fellowships. I cant be more specific (benefits, bonuses, etc) - they don't really volunteer detailed information. This guestimate is based on the numbers that have been casually thrown around the residents' office. I know one of them has enormous CP responsibilities to go with the generous paycheck. Both of them geographically restricted their job searches to practices close to home. Now that I think about it, at least one of them mentioned that he will work for a percentage (about 60%) for 1 year before reaching that level. For the worrywarts out there, both had several similar offers to choose from.

 

[LADoc00]

Two of the seniors in my dept are starting out in the 250 - 300 range in private practice in semi-rural northeastern areas. No fellowships. I cant be more specific (benefits, bonuses, etc) - they don't really volunteer detailed information. This guestimate is based on the numbers that have been casually thrown around the residents' office. I know one of them has enormous CP responsibilities to go with the generous paycheck. Both of them geographically restricted their job searches to practices close to home. Now that I think about it, at least one of them mentioned that he will work for a percentage (about 60%) for 1 year before reaching that level. For the worrywarts out there, both had several similar offers to choose from.

300K starting? Are you sure? Try to get some clarification if you can, that makes no sense from what Ive seen. 2+ year salary maybe, but starting base salary that high is very unusual.

 

[DasN]

From what ive heard directly out of residency (w fellowship some w/o) salaries for some private jobs start around 150, but if you have a partnership track in the job (depending the length of time to partnership) the salary can go up dramatically with in a couple of years (near the high end of the aforementioned estimates). I’ve heard of decent salaries with some of the big path mills like Ameripath, but your job can be taken at anytime and unless you hold large shares don’t consider staying long. All of this of course depends on location and if you’re able to handle a high load consistently. Oh and of course a great connection in the private realm doesn’t hurt.

 

[PathOne]

Got two fairly solid numbers: $240,000/year, private group practise, Dallas-area. $250,000/year, metro New York - AND with a four-day workweek!

However, note that both individuals were board certified in dermpath, so not indicative of surg path salaries...

 

[pathdawg]

I general impression is that alot of people (like someone who claims to be making in the 300k range fresh out of residency without a fellowship) tend to exaggerate a bit. The numbers that I have seen (and heard) are more in line with 120-150k starting right out of training. Granted, there are variations depending on locale and subspecialty.
btw, LADOC, I looked at the survey you posted. Are there really FP's making 600 large? Are they the ones pushing fake Botox? That sounds kinda high, don't you think?

 

[pathdawg]

I general impression is that alot of people (like someone who claims to be making in the 300k range fresh out of residency without a fellowship) tend to exaggerate a bit. The numbers that I have seen (and heard) are more in line with 120-150k starting right out of training. Granted, there are variations depending on locale and subspecialty.
btw, LADOC, I looked at the survey you posted. Are there really FP's making 600 large? Are they the ones pushing fake Botox? That sounds kinda high, don't you think?

My bad. That should be FP's making >360k.

 

[RyMcQ]

I've noticed that new pathologists, if they are going to brag, do so about what their salary is going to be in a few years. As far as I've been able to figure out, typical starting salaries are in the range of 130-170K, though I hear about starting salaries around 200K not infrequently.

 

[LADoc00]

Got two fairly solid numbers: $240,000/year, private group practise, Dallas-area. $250,000/year, metro New York - AND with a four-day workweek!

However, note that both individuals were board certified in dermpath, so not indicative of surg path salaries...

That crap seriously pisses me off. Derm is profitable because its quick and EASY. You can do a ton of cases in no time and its all out patient. Meanwhile if I try to bottom line a bone marrow as "no tumor seen" with no micro description ala dermpath, it would be tantamount to calling the heme-onc's mom a yellow belly ***** and their team would proceed to flog me with a cat-o-nine-tails until a 500-cell count differential was performed on every case. What the hell, who made these rules. Why should everyone else suffer because some pencil pusher or academic thinks things should be this way?

I hate dermatopathologists, Im sorry you can all choke and die.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

That crap seriously pisses me off. Derm is profitable because its quick and EASY. You can do a ton of cases in no time and its all out patient. Meanwhile if I try to bottom line a bone marrow as "no tumor seen" with no micro description ala dermpath, it would be tantamount to calling the heme-onc's mom a yellow belly ***** and their team would proceed to flog me with a cat-o-nine-tails until a 500-cell count differential was performed on every case. What the hell, who made these rules. Why should everyone else suffer because some pencil pusher or academic thinks things should be this way?

I hate dermatopathologists, Im sorry you can all choke and die.

god that's funny!

it's a special time in a special year, it's a woodland critter christmas!

 

[LADoc00]

When someone in academics says "do what youre interested in" and then hints at cytology, tell them to go eat of a hearty bowl of steaming feces. People in academics live to push young pathologists into the crap jobs that nobody in the real world wants to do. Youll never hear how good blood bank has it or that dermpath cleans up, because they want to entrap you in crap that keeps you doing assinine frozen sections until 10pm at night while your supposed girlfriend is banging some guy who gets home 5 hours before you. So residents if you choose listen to the crap your mentors spew, dont come complaining to LADOC when you find yourself age 38, on the verge of a divorce and all your kids look like they have different daddies!! Trust no one.

(PS-You played Warcraft, you playing World of Warcraft, because if so LADOC is serving up beat downs nightly on the pvp Burning Blade server.)

 

[b&ierstiefel]

...dont come complaining to LADOC when you find yourself age 38, on the verge of a divorce and all your kids look like they have different daddies!! Trust no one.

AND YOU LIVE...IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!

(PS-You played Warcraft, you playing World of Warcraft, because if so LADOC is serving up beat downs nightly on the pvp Burning Blade server.)

No WoW for me right now. I played the beta version for a little bit. Awesome game...don't feel like investing a whole lot of time on it though.

If I did play, I'd be that character flinging feces at everyone else. No swords. No numchucks. No bo staffs. Just handfuls and handfuls of feces...and not the kind that hits you and bounces off...this stuff would stick and you would have to take your clothes to the character who owns a laundromat in the game.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

610,000...I think I could handle that

Two of the seniors in my dept are starting out in the 250 - 300 range in private practice in semi-rural northeastern areas. No fellowships. I cant be more specific (benefits, bonuses, etc) - they don't really volunteer detailed information. This guestimate is based on the numbers that have been casually thrown around the residents' office. I know one of them has enormous CP responsibilities to go with the generous paycheck. Both of them geographically restricted their job searches to practices close to home. Now that I think about it, at least one of them mentioned that he will work for a percentage (about 60%) for 1 year before reaching that level. For the worrywarts out there, both had several similar offers to choose from.

you two related?

 

[LADoc00]

you two related?

They are dermpath plants, get em!

Another thing, ever notice how dermatopathologists tend to be ambigiously gay? Whats up with that, I know metrosexual is in, but how can a single field attract them all?

 

[b&ierstiefel]

They are dermpath plants, get em!

Another thing, ever notice how dermatopathologists tend to be ambigiously gay? Whats up with that, I know metrosexual is in, but how can a single field attract them all?

i can think of someone who is ambiguously gay...don't think he's into dermpath though.

 

[yaah]

They are dermpath plants, get em!

Another thing, ever notice how dermatopathologists tend to be ambigiously gay? Whats up with that, I know metrosexual is in, but how can a single field attract them all?

Yup - either ambiguously gay or outright gay. That is interesting, I hadn't actually thought about that but you're right. The only derm path people I have seen who were not metrosexual were people who trained 35 years ago before dermpath was cool.

Dermpath is ok, but gee whiz it isn't that interesting. The fact that every private practice wants to hire a derm path person is odd, especially because most dermpath is a piece of cake to diagnose. It's the atypical nevi that cause the problems. Do you really lose that much money on sending atypical nevi out for consult that it is worth it to hire someone for $300k per year?

 

[yaah]

i can think of someone who is ambiguously gay...don't think he's into dermpath though.

Bite me.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Bite me.

not you! why does everything have to be about you?!? everything is a drama with you isn't it!

 

[LADoc00]

Yup - either ambiguously gay or outright gay. That is interesting, I hadn't actually thought about that but you're right. The only derm path people I have seen who were not metrosexual were people who trained 35 years ago before dermpath was cool.

Dermpath is ok, but gee whiz it isn't that interesting. The fact that every private practice wants to hire a derm path person is odd, especially because most dermpath is a piece of cake to diagnose. It's the atypical nevi that cause the problems. Do you really lose that much money on sending atypical nevi out for consult that it is worth it to hire someone for $300k per year?

I was gonna add outright gay but didnt want to come across as homophobic. Totally true, do your own survey. Last year at the dermpath USCAP meetings I actually saw people arrive in leather biker outfits with dog collars. This totally belongs on "Ripley's believe it or not."

Additionally, any guy who puts a cute domestic cat picture as his avatar on MBs is suspect, so that would include Yaah (he had the cat in the bag thing going on).

 

[yaah]

I was gonna add outright gay but didnt want to come across as homophobic. Totally true, do your own survey. Last year at the dermpath USCAP meetings I actually saw people arrive in leather biker outfits with dog collars. This totally belongs on "Ripley's believe it or not."

Additionally, any guy who puts a cute domestic cat picture as his avatar on MBs is suspect, so that would include Yaah (he had the cat in the bag thing going on).

Conversely, one would say that anyone who puts a tiger in their avatar is overcompensating for something.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Conversely, one would say that anyone who puts a tiger in their avatar is overcompensating for something.

man, somebody's exhibiting a bit of PWNAGE here!

i think it's a liger.

 

[deschutes]

< monotone >

i am woman. hear me roar.

< / monotone >

 

[PathOne]

...
I hate dermatopathologists, Im sorry you can all choke and die.

Sorry, not planning to become an autoerotic fatality just yet. But yes, the hard cold fact is that most derms would probably easily be able to read 90%+ of their own slides, and send the rest for consultations. But either they don't know, or, more likely, they can't be bothered.
Funnily enough, my very unscientific observation is that among non-dermpaths, derms are usually better at reading slides than paths.

As in any subspec. there's some really tricky stuff, but the rest is comparatively easier than most other surg path subspecs. Still A LOT more interesting than cytology, though.

Haven't noticed that many metro/homosexuals in the biz. But then again, LADoc00 also suspects Chris Fletcher of being off to a side. Actually, come to think of it, don't know if LADoc00 doesn't suspect everyone, perhaps excepting hisself?