Hi Everyone....IS 31 too old to go back to school?

[Fire-Moon]

Greetings Everyone.
I am posting this in order to get varying opinions to assertain whether or not my feelings /concerns are valid , in Regards to my embarking on this long journey to becoming and M.D.

My goal is to begin schooling in 2019.
I have a high school diploma. I had a 4.0 in High school and graduated at the top of my class with honors, 1 year ahead of my graduating class. I enjoy lerning and being a student.
Always having an interest in Health/Fitness/Beauty. I then , After High School entered the fitness industry where I have been very successful. Fitness modeling, Creating tailor made fitness and diet programs for clients - Brand endorsments . etc.


At this point after much learning from being in these enviorments for over 14 years I have now decided to take it to the next level . I would like to open my own anti aging/health and welness center-However although I will hire other Mds to work at the company I have learned that in order for me to run the company "legally" I would have to be an M.D. Myself. I am aware of the alternative of hiring an M.D. to be the "Face"
(I have several friends and collegues who have done this but have hired an M.D.s to be the "face" so that the comany runs in tip top shape. Without getting into a long discussion regarding legalties etc things get ugly fast if the M.D. and the "silent owner" are not on the same page. Or become an R.N and work under the supervision of the M.D. I hire. Which I dont want either)

I have the background-the sales-the bedside manner- etc. I do however need medical training and a DEGREE. In order to bring my vision to life.

Here is the Kicker.....I am 31 years old. No college . Starting from high school diploma.
Im Looking for support from people in similar situations

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[esob]

I started the process at 40 without a college degree, and I'm young compared to some SDNer's, lol. That said, don't go to med school for technical reasons; go because there is nothing else you want to do with your life other than being a doctor. Without that motivation, the process will be intolerable at any age. Be prepared to not just begin at the bottom of the food chain, but to spend significant amounts of time there. No one (other than other premeds) will be impressed with what you've done up to this point, so you will need to approach shadowing, volunteering, classes, etc from a standpoint of humility. If not, it will show, and the endorsements that you will need to rack up the along the way will never come.

 

[Goro]

Greetings Everyone.
I am posting this in order to get varying opinions to assertain whether or not my feelings /concerns are valid , in Regards to my embarking on this long journey to becoming and M.D.

My goal is to begin schooling in 2019.
I have a high school diploma. I had a 4.0 in High school and graduated at the top of my class with honors, 1 year ahead of my graduating class. I enjoy lerning and being a student.
Always having an interest in Health/Fitness/Beauty. I then , After High School entered the fitness industry where I have been very successful. Fitness modeling, Creating tailor made fitness and diet programs for clients - Brand endorsments . etc.


At this point after much learning from being in these enviorments for over 14 years I have now decided to take it to the next level . I would like to open my own anti aging/health and welness center-However although I will hire other Mds to work at the company I have learned that in order for me to run the company "legally" I would have to be an M.D. Myself. I am aware of the alternative of hiring an M.D. to be the "Face"
(I have several friends and collegues who have done this but have hired an M.D.s to be the "face" so that the comany runs in tip top shape. Without getting into a long discussion regarding legalties etc things get ugly fast if the M.D. and the "silent owner" are not on the same page. Or become an R.N and work under the supervision of the M.D. I hire. Which I dont want either)

I have the background-the sales-the bedside manner- etc. I do however need medical training and a DEGREE. In order to bring my vision to life.

Here is the Kicker.....I am 31 years old. No college . Starting from high school diploma.
Im Looking for support from people in similar situations

read this:
Med School Rx: Getting In, Getting Through, and Getting On with Doctoring Original Edition by Walter Hartwig

ISBN-13: 978-1607140627

ISBN-10: 1607140624

 

[Fire-Moon]

I started the process at 40 without a college degree, and I'm young compared to some SDNer's, lol. That said, don't go to med school for technical reasons; go because there is nothing else you want to do with your life other than being a doctor. Without that motivation, the process will be intolerable at any age. Be prepared to not just begin at the bottom of the food chain, but to spend significant amounts of time there. No one (other than other premeds) will be impressed with what you've done up to this point, so you will need to approach shadowing, volunteering, classes, etc from a standpoint of humility. If not, it will show, and the endorsements that you will need to rack up the along the way will never come.

Esob-Thank you for your response-
your starting at 40 gives me hope! may I ask? How old where you when you applied to medical school? how many tries did it take?which type of medicine did you go into? when did you graduate from med school?
Thank you so much for your candor and honesty I truly I appreciate it.
-volunteering -classes - and shadowing from a standpoint of humility, this is a very good point and I agree.

 

[Fire-Moon]

read this:
Med School Rx: Getting In, Getting Through, and Getting On with Doctoring Original Edition by Walter Hartwig

ISBN-13: 978-1607140627

ISBN-10: 1607140624

Goro-Thank you. I will check it out .

 

[esob]

Esob-Thank you for your response-
your starting at 40 gives me hope! may I ask? How old where you when you applied to medical school? how many tries did it take?which type of medicine did you go into? when did you graduate from med school?
Thank you so much for your candor and honesty I truly I appreciate it.
-volunteering -classes - and shadowing from a standpoint of humility, this is a very good point and I agree.

I'm applying this cycle, so hopefully, it only takes one try, lol. I have multiple interviews lined up at this point so likely I won't turn all of them into a dumpster fire and someone will offer me an acceptance. That's as far as I've gotten in the process so I'll have to let you know how the rest turns out at the end of the cycle. But my point really is, that 31 is still young to be starting this process. There are med students in their 50's so you are a spring chicken compared to some of us

 

[Goro]

Goro-Thank you. I will check it out .

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. I graduated one at 50 and she's now a PGY3

 

[Fire-Moon]

Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. I graduated one at 50 and she's now a PGY3

Goro- this brings me comfort. Thank u so much. I really did not realize how worried I really am about my age lol. Reading this makes me feel like I have unloaded a ton of bricks , thank you.

 

[Fire-Moon]

I'm applying this cycle, so hopefully, it only takes one try, lol. I have multiple interviews lined up at this point so likely I won't turn all of them into a dumpster fire and someone will offer me an acceptance. That's as far as I've gotten in the process so I'll have to let you know how the rest turns out at the end of the cycle. But my point really is, that 31 is still young to be starting this process. There are med students in their 50's so you are a spring chicken compared to some of us

Esob- Fingers crossed for you. I hope you get in first try and that you will get more than one offer so that YOU can choose....sending you good vibes!!!! Please keep me posted.
Med students in their 50's ! WOW that is so inspiring! I guess i need to stop balling and get going! LOL. thank you for your support and encouragement. It really means alot.

 

[Goro]

Esob- Fingers crossed for you. I hope you get in first try and that you will get more than one offer so that YOU can choose....sending you good vibes!!!! Please keep me posted.
Med students in their 50's ! WOW that is so inspiring! I guess i need to stop balling and get going! LOL. thank you for your support and encouragement. It really means alot.

My school's all time oldest was 53 at matriculation. He's still in practice in a western state

 

[holdthemayo]

31 is old to go back. Who cares? You only get one go at life. In 9 years you'll be 40. You can be 40 and doing what you're doing now or you can be 40 and an MD/DO in residency. You'll be 40 either way.

I'm a med student in my mid-30s. I'm not the oldest person in my class.

 

[Fire-Moon]

31 is old to go back. Who cares? You only get one go at life. In 9 years you'll be 30. You can be 40 and doing what you're doing now or you can be 40 and an MD/DO in residency. You'll be 40 either way.

I'm a med student in my mid-30s. I'm not the oldest person in my class.

I love this !!!!! Thank you so much!

 

[JeSuisUnDoc]

I’m planning to start med school at 31, this thread is gold!!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Mad Jack]

You can do it, but the sacrifice and commitment will likely hurt your fitness business or destroy it entirely and you'll be starting from the ground up. You're looking at 9-11 years, minimum, to be able to run such a clinic (depending on whether you want to do it incompetently with an internship only or with a full residency under your belt). Furthermore, the FDA has been cracking down on some anti-aging clinic practices, and by the time you finish, the sort of things you are planning to do might not be entirely legal unless they get full FDA approval.

 

[jbardin1]

It's not too late to go back. I had a lady in her 60s in my med school class. But I wouldn't go for the sake of just going to run a business, as other have said. It's a life long commitment that consumes you for a long period of time. That desire is often the only motivation I had and it wasn't my academic ability that got me through.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

I was 33 with a wife and 3 children when I started medical school.

 

[BC_89]

Your age isn’t going to keep you from med school. Your reasoning on going may cost you though.

 

[DrMcStuffin]

it better now be because I start my grad program at 31, and start applying at 32 with hopes of matriculating at 32! LOL. So it better NOT be too old.

 

[DrMcStuffin]

I started the process at 40 without a college degree, and I'm young compared to some SDNer's, lol. That said, don't go to med school for technical reasons; go because there is nothing else you want to do with your life other than being a doctor. Without that motivation, the process will be intolerable at any age. Be prepared to not just begin at the bottom of the food chain, but to spend significant amounts of time there. No one (other than other premeds) will be impressed with what you've done up to this point, so you will need to approach shadowing, volunteering, classes, etc from a standpoint of humility. If not, it will show, and the endorsements that you will need to rack up the along the way will never come.

Exactly this! And honestly, no one cares how old you are. No one is even going to ask.

 

[twospadz]

31 is not too old but it is definitely the upper range of people who start. Many doctors are done by age 30. But if you have good reasons for going, then don't let it hold you back

 

[Vet_Squared80]

I start veterinary med school in one week. I'm 38 and I'm not even the youngest in my class. We have a spread of ages 17-45, so definitely not too old. I had a bachelor's before I applied, but after my bachelor's degree, I spent time in the military and raised a family before focusing on my career. There are up sides and down sides to it, but if this is really what you want to do, don't let age be a factor. I worried about this a lot in the beginning of my process, but the more I talked to people, the more age became a non-factor for me. Good luck!

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I would like to open my own anti aging/health and welness center

Working on a time machine, huh? Easier said than done.



Big Hoss a.k.a. Uncle Rico

 

[EasyEveryoneWouldDoIt]

If I get accepted this cycle I will matriculate at 37 while I look back and could have been well into my medical career if i went the traditional route ... i wouldn't have the life experience I do now. I feel a lot more prepared for whatever med school and residency throws at me because of it

 

[676188]

I started at 33 with one transferable credit hour from 15 years prior. Finishing my MS in biology now at 38, hoping to matriculate to Med school this cycle at 39.

 

[olabrador23]

Hi all,

This is my first post on SDN.

I was about to post a new thread but came across this thread. I am having almost the same question, i.e., wondering about whether I should start pursuing medicine now.

I am very late 40's. I always dreamed of becoming a doctor since I was a kid. I went to a community college in the 90's and took many science courses to prepare to prepare for transfering to a four-year college/university for a bachelor degree then apply for medical schools. Got an "accident" and got married so I abandoned this dream for many years. Came back to school and got an associate degree in 2009. Did some volunteer work in hospitals here and there.

I have a job that is making good and stable money to support my family for many years now. But I always feel something missing inside of me. The idea of medicine is always in my head. Now that my kids all grew up and out of the house, I am wondering if it is still time for me to pursue this dream of becoming a doctor now.

I thought about pharmacy, PA, and nursing as they are also great healthcare professions and would require less time and effort. I volunteered and shadowed some pharmacists and nurses but did not feel right. I still love to be a doctor.

I am studying to take the MCAT this summer. Regardless whether I pursue medicine or not, this is something I am going to do to see if I at least have some abilities that are required for med schools.

My questions:

-Is it realistic for me to pursue medicine from my age/position? What would I have to do? Do I have to start from scratch, i.e., retaking all the science prerequisites?

-Is it realistic for me to apply to US medical schools? Or is it better to apply to Caribbean med schools as it would cut down time for me?
From what I read from googling the internet, not everyone makes it from the Caribbeans, only about 40-50% make it to residencies, limited residency options, etc. But many people did make it.
The Caribbean route is very tempting to me because it would allow me to save off some years preparing and trying to apply to med schools in the States. Any Caribbean schools you guys want to recommend that I should consider if you think this route is good for me?

I would love to hear and learn more, especially from the people that are in similar positions and have been through the process.

Thank you all for your advice and recommendation.

 

[Osminog]

Is it realistic for me to pursue medicine from my age/position? What would I have to do? Do I have to start from scratch, i.e., retaking all the science prerequisites?

"Realistic" as in possible? Sure. You wouldn't be the first person to start medical school in your 50s. Would it be a good idea? That's up to you. Most people wouldn't want to make such a massive financial and personal investment only to begin their medical careers at age 60. But maybe that's something you really want for yourself.

Yes, you would probably have to start for scratch. Why? One, you'd need to take recent science courses in order to prove to admissions officers that you're still academically prepared and capable. Two, you wouldn't do well on the MCAT if the science coursework isn't fresh in your mind. Three, you'd need letters of recommendation from science faculty; many of your former science professors are probably deceased or retired, and they most likely don't remember you.

Also, you said you have an associate's degree. Generally medical schools expect you to be on track toward having a bachelor's degree by the time you matriculate.

Is it realistic for me to apply to US medical schools? Or is it better to apply to Caribbean med schools as it would cut down time for me?

If you end up achieving a good GPA and MCAT score, and you have good extracurriculars, then sure, it'd be possible for you to be accepted into a US medical school.

Applying to Caribbean medical schools is a godawful idea. It's a huge gamble, and at your age, you'd risk dying penniless. Don't try to take the easy way out, because it can destroy your life.

Any Caribbean schools you guys want to recommend that I should consider if you think this route is good for me?

No. There are no Caribbean schools that anybody here would recommend to you.

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If you desperately want to work as a healthcare provider and can't see yourself doing anything else, my suggestion is to get a bachelor's degree, do the science pre-reqs, accumulate a lot of clinical volunteering experience, get a 50-60th percentile GRE score, and apply to PA programs. The PA route would probably be half the length of the MD/DO route, and you'd be able to diagnose and treat illnesses and prescribe medications on a relatively autonomous basis.

 

[olabrador23]

"Realistic" as in possible? Sure. You wouldn't be the first person to start medical school in your 50s. Would it be a good idea? That's up to you. Most people wouldn't want to make such a massive financial and personal investment only to begin their medical careers at age 60. But maybe that's something you really want for yourself.

Yes, you would probably have to start for scratch. Why? One, you'd need to take recent science courses in order to prove to admissions officers that you're still academically prepared and capable. Two, you wouldn't do well on the MCAT if the science coursework isn't fresh in your mind. Three, you'd need letters of recommendation from science faculty; many of your former science professors are probably deceased or retired, and they most likely don't remember you.

Also, you said you have an associate's degree. Generally medical schools expect you to be on track toward having a bachelor's degree by the time you matriculate.



If you end up achieving a good GPA and MCAT score, and you have good extracurriculars, then sure, it'd be possible for you to be accepted into a US medical school.

Applying to Caribbean medical schools is a godawful idea. It's a huge gamble, and at your age, you'd risk dying penniless. Don't try to take the easy way out, because it can destroy your life.



No. There are no Caribbean schools that anybody here would recommend to you.

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If you desperately want to work as a healthcare provider and can't see yourself doing anything else, my suggestion is to get a bachelor's degree, do the science pre-reqs, accumulate a lot of clinical volunteering experience, get a 50-60th percentile GRE score, and apply to PA programs. The PA route would probably be half the length of the MD/DO route, and you'd be able to diagnose and treat illnesses and prescribe medications on a relatively autonomous basis.

Thank you very much for that detailed response and advice! I am studying right now to take the MCAT in August to see where I stand before investing all the time and money into this process.

Love to hear more from people in similar situation and their experience!

 

[Dave1980]

I will be the face of your company until you graduate.

 

[Ad2b]

I am very late 40's.

I am studying to take the MCAT this summer. Regardless whether I pursue medicine or not, this is something I am going to do to see if I at least have some abilities that are required for med schools.

I'm 54.

MCAT - do you have the prereqs done as in recently? 2 semesters each of: gen chem, organic, physics, biology + biochem. Do NOT take the MCAT if you are NOT using the AAMC FL 1-3 exams as indicators of your ability to take this test AND do well. This is not a test you want to kind of figure out, get a crappy score and then retake again. It's not a lot of fun studying for the first time, let alone twice.

What is your GPA?

Caribbean is a no-go for any of them; a few years ago it was mediocre to consider AUC, St. George's and Ross (the big 3) but as of last the 5 years, the ability to obtain residencies from those schools, is abysmal if not worse than that. I have 3 friends who went to AUC; all graduated before 2015; all are practicing physicians but the cost incurred by their parents was tremendous; and all 3 had to wait for clinical spots to open... meaning they graduated later than similar US based medical schools, were a year later trying to match into residencies than US based programs.

Now for the reality of being older.

Do you have the stamina to study for long hours? Have you been around 20-somethings in an academic setting recently? How did you feel? How did you fit in?

Schools are not only looking for GPA/MCAT they are looking for "fit" at their particular program AND, bottom line, do you really want to help people in a clinical manner AND are you professional enough to do so.

 

[deleted547631]

Caribbean is a no-go for any of them; a few years ago it was mediocre to consider AUC, St. George's and Ross (the big 3) but as of last the 5 years, the ability to obtain residencies from those schools, is abysmal if not worse than that. I have 3 friends who went to AUC; all graduated before 2015; all are practicing physicians but the cost incurred by their parents was tremendous; and all 3 had to wait for clinical spots to open... meaning they graduated later than similar US based medical schools, were a year later trying to match into residencies than US based programs.

So all three made it through AUC and are currently practicing physicians. Tell me what the problem is here?

 

[Ad2b]

So all three made it through AUC and are currently practicing physicians. Tell me what the problem is here?

They made it through AUC BEFORE 2015. Things changed that year. Residency spots became even harder to get.

For the people I know, their clinicals were delayed by 6 months so they spent 6 months sitting on their hands while paying for tuition; they graduated 6 months later than US based medical schools incurring more fees which also put them 6 months (full year) behind for residency spots.

They had their way paid for by family and relied on family to get them residency spots.

Tell me how that works out for people who do not have those kind of funds AND do not have those kinds of connections??

(it doesn't; that is the problem)

 

[deleted547631]

Tell me how that works out for people who do not have those kind of funds AND do not have those kinds of connections??

(it doesn't; that is the problem)

I have friends from my college years that went the US-IMG route and they've all matched (six out of seven). The six of them - 2x SGU / 2x Ross / 1x University of Queensland / 1x University College, Dublin - matched and they're now in residency or practicing. The one that didn't decided to attend law school at the conclusion of medical school and is not pursuing a residency. If one can't get into any Stateside program (0% chance of becoming a physician) versus trying their luck as a US-IMG (59% chance or higher chance of matching if diligent and from well known programs) then I see nothing wrong with giving it a go. There are thousands of positions that continue to go to US-IMGs and FMGs and their match rate has increased year over year for three years. It's a valid option if one is motivated and serious enough to muster the courage to undertake it.

 

[olabrador23]

I'm 54.

Are you a med student or a doctor?

MCAT - do you have the prereqs done as in recently? 2 semesters each of: gen chem, organic, physics, biology + biochem. Do NOT take the MCAT if you are NOT using the AAMC FL 1-3 exams as indicators of your ability to take this test AND do well. This is not a test you want to kind of figure out, get a crappy score and then retake again. It's not a lot of fun studying for the first time, let alone twice.

I was out of school since 2009.

For the MCAT, I am definitely going to prepare for it really well and use AAMC full-length as practice before going in for the real one. I am with you on taking it once.

What is your GPA?

3.6 cumulative, 3.8 science.

Caribbean is a no-go for any of them;

a few years ago it was mediocre to consider AUC, St. George's and Ross (the big 3) but as of last the 5 years, the ability to obtain residencies from those schools, is abysmal if not worse than that. I have 3 friends who went to AUC; all graduated before 2015; all are practicing physicians but the cost incurred by their parents was tremendous; and all 3 had to wait for clinical spots to open... meaning they graduated later than similar US based medical schools, were a year later trying to match into residencies than US based programs.

If I may ask where you get the information on the residency match for IMG for the last 5 years as you mentioned above that was "abysmal if not worse"? I am only asking because I remember reading from some recent posts on SDN that the IMG match rate for last year (2018) was slightly up compared to the past (please correct me if I am wrong... I am definitely not an expert on this subject).

I have just learned is that USMLE Step 1 might be changed to Pass/Fail. Many think that could be really bad for IMG/FMG... What do you think?

Now for the reality of being older.

Do you have the stamina to study for long hours? Have you been around 20-somethings in an academic setting recently? How did you feel? How did you fit in?

Schools are not only looking for GPA/MCAT they are looking for "fit" at their particular program AND, bottom line, do you really want to help people in a clinical manner AND are you professional enough to do so.
[/QUOTE]

I think I am still capable of studying or staying focused for long hours but need to retrain myself. I have not been around any 20's in school setting as I have been out of school for a long time but I have been around young people at work and feel fine working with them.

I have friends from my college years that went the US-IMG route and they've all matched (six out of seven). The six of them - 2x SGU / 2x Ross / 1x University of Queensland / 1x University College, Dublin - matched and they're now in residency or practicing. The one that didn't decided to attend law school at the conclusion of medical school and is not pursuing a residency. If one can't get into any Stateside program (0% chance of becoming a physician) versus trying their luck as a US-IMG (59% chance or higher chance of matching if diligent and from well known programs) then I see nothing wrong with giving it a go. There are thousands of positions that continue to go to US-IMGs and FMGs and their match rate has increased year over year for three years. It's a valid option if one is motivated and serious enough to muster the courage to undertake it.

I like what you say there, 0% vs 59%

What do you think about there might be more obstables for Caribbean med grads in the futures (e.g. USMLE Step 1 P/F rumors)? If that became true, what would be the strategy for IMG?

 

[deleted547631]

I like what you say there, 0% vs 59%

What do you think about there might be more obstables for Caribbean med grads in the futures (e.g. USMLE Step 1 P/F rumors)? If that became true, what would be the strategy for IMG?

For those who know they can't get into a US MD or DO due to the extremely high barrier to entry the only viable option to become a doctor is the US-IMG path. Multiples of thousands have used this route for the last decade plus. It's a viable option despite the setbacks and headaches associated with it. If one wants it bad enough they will make it happen. I would've been perfectly happy going overseas to Ireland or Australia to complete medical school as my friends have if that was an option I was left to pursue.

If P/F pans out for Step 1 only then Step 2CK will become the super competitive exam overnight. I anticipate heavy emphasis will be placed on clinical grades, extracurriculars (research, etc), LORs and the MSPE. I personally feel the move to P/F makes sense.

 

[olabrador23]

For those who know they can't get into a US MD or DO due to the extremely high barrier to entry the only viable option to become a doctor is the US-IMG path. Multiples of thousands have used this route for the last decade plus. It's a viable option despite the setbacks and headaches associated with it. If one wants it bad enough they will make it happen. I would've been perfectly happy going overseas to Ireland or Australia to complete medical school as my friends have if that was an option I was left to pursue.

If P/F pans out for Step 1 only then Step 2CK will become the super competitive exam overnight. I anticipate heavy emphasis will be placed on clinical grades, extracurriculars (research, etc), LORs and the MSPE. I personally feel the move to P/F makes sense.

I like what you say here again... It sounds like you are a US med student?

In my humble opinion, things should be more standardized and scientific, Step 1 or Step 2 CK or whatever to help selecting candidates. I think it is generally very difficult to subjectively compare and select candidates, which can give rise to bias and corruption in the process. But again, I think that it might be all about what the people (especially those in the position of power to make any change) really want... Just some thoughts....

Thanks for your insights.

 

[deleted547631]

I like what you say here again... It sounds like you are a US med student?

In my humble opinion, things should be more standardized and scientific, Step 1 or Step 2 CK or whatever to help select candidates. I think it is generally very difficult to subjectively compare and select candidates, which can give rise to bias and corruption in the process. But again, I think that it might be all about what the people (especially those in the position of power to make any change) really want... Just some thoughts....

Thanks for your insights.

No problem at all!

I respect the advice and suggestions of the more stalwart members of this forum that are ardently anti-US-IMG (mainly Caribbean) pathway but I feel they’re giving out advice in a more general, non-individualized sense for those that are not committed to pursuing that path quite yet. What they say makes sense. Despite that, I was fully prepared to do the US-IMG route myself being a non-traditional applicant with little patience to apply more than one AMCAS cycle.

Over 2,500 US-IMGs matched almost two months ago with a match rate at 59% overall. They will become doctors. Those 2,500 of my fellow US citizens will practice medicine despite going overseas for medical school and I applaud them.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Eh, This thinking is dangerous. Sure, the whole “you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take” is inspiring, but in reality, some people just aren’t cut out for medical school. Caribbean schools prey on people like this who want to chase the “muh passion” and “muh dream”. My passion is singing, doesn’t mean I should make a career out of it.

The whole “want it bad enough” cliche is dangerous. I have worked with several people who went to the Caribbean and are on their 3rd try at a residency. Each year it gets harder for them. Some got smart and did something else, but that was a huge waste of time and money.

There are many SMPs and post bacc options that can help an otherwise marginal candidate become successful in getting an acceptance that there is no need for Caribbean. It’s just too risky.

Failing that, there are other healthcare options similar to being a physician, like Podiatry or Optometry, that are much more sure bets. Yeah, if your dream is to be a cardiologist/surgeon, Podiatry and Optometry prolly won’t scratch that itch, but your chances of making it into that speciality anyway from the Caribbean is small.

For those who know they can't get into a US MD or DO due to the extremely high barrier to entry the only viable option to become a doctor is the US-IMG path. Multiples of thousands have used this route for the last decade plus. It's a viable option despite the setbacks and headaches associated with it. If one wants it bad enough they will make it happen. I would've been perfectly happy going overseas to Ireland or Australia to complete medical school as my friends have if that was an option I was left to pursue.

If P/F pans out for Step 1 only then Step 2CK will become the super competitive exam overnight. I anticipate heavy emphasis will be placed on clinical grades, extracurriculars (research, etc), LORs and the MSPE. I personally feel the move to P/F makes sense.

 

[Ad2b]

Are you a med student or a doctor?

3.6 cumulative, 3.8 science.

PREMED ... applying this cycle

I am not vehemently anti-Caribbean but the n-1 is the rule more often than not. 59% sounds like a great number compared to? 0?

I could dig up the numbers for the US allopathic schools but I have to suspect the number is closer to 97%; with less cost involved.

41% failing to match, incurring substantially more debt than a US based school sounds like a great reason for a bankruptcy only... Clinton did away with using BK as a means to discharge student debt (1997). So now, you have students in that 41% likely carrying $250,000 in debt with a degree they cannot use (possibly research or something at a med device corporation).

That 41% probably also includes those trying to get residency spot through the alternative process and STILL not matching.

What the Caribs prey on is people so desperate for an MD at the end of their name, they'll do anything... without realizing, if you're not good enough to get into a US based school (MD or DO), you are likely NOT going to get the support from the faculty in the Carib to do well enough on the USMLE to get a residency spot.

The people I know?

1. had a 4.0 from a top tier state school, got a 22 on the MCAT and didn't want to resit; the parents are both practicing physicians; she had no debt, they had money to pay for it

2. had a 3.8 with a 26 on the MCAT and didn't want to resit; parent #1 is a physician, parent #2 is an NP; parents paid for AUC

3. had a 3.2 with a 29 MCAT and didn't want to DIY the post bacc; parents are Hollyweirdos and wealthy

I do know of a 4th person - she was in my MCAT class - and the last I saw or read about her, she had a 4.0 from big state school, 23 on the MCAT, went to AUC and flunked out... with $180,000 in debt ... no degree, no clinicals, no residency; she went dark on SM and I lost contact with her so I don't know if she was able to re-up her admission to AUC or if she is SOL.

At the end of the day, SOME people do get out of the Big 3 Caribs and are excellent physicians. If you think you could be one of them, who are any of us to tell you differently? But at least, you know the reality of going Carib from outside the fancy brochures and smiling faces.

 

[olabrador23]

PREMED ... applying this cycle

I am not vehemently anti-Caribbean but the n-1 is the rule more often than not. 59% sounds like a great number compared to? 0?

I could dig up the numbers for the US allopathic schools but I have to suspect the number is closer to 97%; with less cost involved.

41% failing to match, incurring substantially more debt than a US based school sounds like a great reason for a bankruptcy only... Clinton did away with using BK as a means to discharge student debt (1997). So now, you have students in that 41% likely carrying $250,000 in debt with a degree they cannot use (possibly research or something at a med device corporation).

That 41% probably also includes those trying to get residency spot through the alternative process and STILL not matching.

What the Caribs prey on is people so desperate for an MD at the end of their name, they'll do anything... without realizing, if you're not good enough to get into a US based school (MD or DO), you are likely NOT going to get the support from the faculty in the Carib to do well enough on the USMLE to get a residency spot.

The people I know?

1. had a 4.0 from a top tier state school, got a 22 on the MCAT and didn't want to resit; the parents are both practicing physicians; she had no debt, they had money to pay for it

2. had a 3.8 with a 26 on the MCAT and didn't want to resit; parent #1 is a physician, parent #2 is an NP; parents paid for AUC

3. had a 3.2 with a 29 MCAT and didn't want to DIY the post bacc; parents are Hollyweirdos and wealthy

I do know of a 4th person - she was in my MCAT class - and the last I saw or read about her, she had a 4.0 from big state school, 23 on the MCAT, went to AUC and flunked out... with $180,000 in debt ... no degree, no clinicals, no residency; she went dark on SM and I lost contact with her so I don't know if she was able to re-up her admission to AUC or if she is SOL.

At the end of the day, SOME people do get out of the Big 3 Caribs and are excellent physicians. If you think you could be one of them, who are any of us to tell you differently? But at least, you know the reality of going Carib from outside the fancy brochures and smiling faces.

Thank you very much for your long and detailed reply.

The reason I was looking into the Carib option is that I have not had a Bachelor's degree yet and that many have advised me to retake all the science prerequisites since I was out of school for a long time. This might take me at least 1-2 years. Then it might take 1-3 tries to successfully apply to US med shooIs. I am also old (late 40's) and concerned that by the time I get out, my age would be a factor in applying for residency (yes, I know it might be illegal for age discrimination, but it always happens). Therefore, the younger is the better and Carib option might help to save some years off trying to apply to US med schools.

I have learned that the risks going the Carib routes are high and not favorable. Yet many still successfully made it through. I would like to directly hear from those recently went through this route or are current in it and really learn about this option really well to know what I can do or cannot do to be sucessful before deciding whether to take this option completely off the table.

 

[Ad2b]

I am also old (late 40's) and concerned that by the time I get out

I am 54 and applying this cycle.

My friend is 59 and graduated (allopathic) this April/May (I know when but for privacy reasons am leaving it nebulous)

People my friend met on the residency interview path? in their 50s, allopathic only

Age IS a factor in some ways. 4.0 + 519 + ... won't be applying to top schools. It's not that they wouldn't consider my stats, it's that I am not a fit for their program NOR would I fit into the class very well overall. *MY* comfort level is just as important as theirs... and being amongst 100+ 4.0 + 520s + research gunners is not me... not at all... being around a slightly older group with less than ortho/derm/plastic/neuro surgery goals IS my gang;

The key is to do the path correctly, not look for short cuts. The common theme is marathon not a sprint.

 

[olabrador23]

I am 54 and applying this cycle.

My friend is 59 and graduated (allopathic) this April/May (I know when but for privacy reasons am leaving it nebulous)

People my friend met on the residency interview path? in their 50s, allopathic only

Age IS a factor in some ways. 4.0 + 519 + ... won't be applying to top schools. It's not that they wouldn't consider my stats, it's that I am not a fit for their program NOR would I fit into the class very well overall. *MY* comfort level is just as important as theirs... and being amongst 100+ 4.0 + 520s + research gunners is not me... not at all... being around a slightly older group with less than ortho/derm/plastic/neuro surgery goals IS my gang;

The key is to do the path correctly, not look for short cuts. The common theme is marathon not a sprint.

wow... 59? from what I read, not that many in that our age range are in medical schools. I am wondering if that is due to less people in that age range applying to med schools or that med schools are not preferring those people?

Yes, I am trying to gather as much info as I can to know what my options are and how to do info and develop a plan for success...

congrats on your stat. MCAT 519 is great. Could you please share with me your MCAT-studying and pre-med experience?

Thanks again!

 

[Ad2b]

wow... 59? from what I read, not that many in that our age range are in medical schools.

How many people in their 50's decide that medicine is the only path forward for them? Of them, how many survive and thrive in the premed courses to actually apply to medical school?

Of those that apply with stats comparable to the younger peers, they get in if wise in their school lists (ala, do not apply Ivies or CA or TX unless TX resident).

I once talked to the admissions director where my friend graduated from. Called her to see what kind of fun, surprise gift I could give my friend for her white coat ceremony... sent the money to the director and she went "shopping" for my friend... and then she and I talked for a hour or 2 about med school, her thoughts on ultra-non-trads. Where she thought I should apply, what advice she'd give me, etc.

Her opinion, and one that she was telling wherever she could, was that non-trads, especially those of us who have raised families, had other careers, etc. bring an element of calm and stability to a class. I've heard similarly from other schools that I've talked to in person or during the on-line AAMC med school open house.

Where I see age being a HUGE detriment is ego and attitude. If one loses those along the path, or never had them to begin with, age is simply, irrelevant.

Also, just remembered: a few years ago, I met a PGY-3 at a funeral for a mutual friend's father. She graduated at 61 (allopathic) and was 64 leaving residency. Asked her what area of IM she wanted to be in and her response?

NOT PATIENTS! lol ... she'd found infectious disease to be her calling and loved being in the lab first and foremost ... her day is 60% lab and 40% patients...

Another friend of mine, 10 years younger, was adamant about becoming a doctor... but after orgo 1, he crashed and burned out saying he just didn't want to be that poor anymore ... I tend to think that is more common than documented.

It's not easy to give up a lucrative career (some of us have or are), it's not easy to go back to being bottom feeding pleeb...

For me, life made me into a pleeb all by itself. Being a premed gave me hope, likely saved my life, gave my son an example of how to survive and thrive the dark ages. Every day I'm in school is greater than the one that I am not. Many our age - would rather be focused on traveling and retirement... than sitting in a library on a Saturday afternoon when the water temps are pushing 85 and the jet skis have fully fueled tanks

 

[olabrador23]

How many people in their 50's decide that medicine is the only path forward for them? Of them, how many survive and thrive in the premed courses to actually apply to medical school?

Of those that apply with stats comparable to the younger peers, they get in if wise in their school lists (ala, do not apply Ivies or CA or TX unless TX resident).

I once talked to the admissions director where my friend graduated from. Called her to see what kind of fun, surprise gift I could give my friend for her white coat ceremony... sent the money to the director and she went "shopping" for my friend... and then she and I talked for a hour or 2 about med school, her thoughts on ultra-non-trads. Where she thought I should apply, what advice she'd give me, etc.

Her opinion, and one that she was telling wherever she could, was that non-trads, especially those of us who have raised families, had other careers, etc. bring an element of calm and stability to a class. I've heard similarly from other schools that I've talked to in person or during the on-line AAMC med school open house.

Where I see age being a HUGE detriment is ego and attitude. If one loses those along the path, or never had them to begin with, age is simply, irrelevant.

Also, just remembered: a few years ago, I met a PGY-3 at a funeral for a mutual friend's father. She graduated at 61 (allopathic) and was 64 leaving residency. Asked her what area of IM she wanted to be in and her response?

NOT PATIENTS! lol ... she'd found infectious disease to be her calling and loved being in the lab first and foremost ... her day is 60% lab and 40% patients...

Another friend of mine, 10 years younger, was adamant about becoming a doctor... but after orgo 1, he crashed and burned out saying he just didn't want to be that poor anymore ... I tend to think that is more common than documented.

It's not easy to give up a lucrative career (some of us have or are), it's not easy to go back to being bottom feeding pleeb...

For me, life made me into a pleeb all by itself. Being a premed gave me hope, likely saved my life, gave my son an example of how to survive and thrive the dark ages. Every day I'm in school is greater than the one that I am not. Many our age - would rather be focused on traveling and retirement... than sitting in a library on a Saturday afternoon when the water temps are pushing 85 and the jet skis have fully fueled tanks

61??? 64???

wow... I am feeling so "young" now... (jk)

Thanks again for sharing your story and others'. Truly inspiring!

 

[StarDancer]

Hey,

I just wanted to share my story to tell you that you're not alone.

I'm in my late 30s and finally got into medical school. I start this July.

I resonate with what you said about something missing in your life. I've always liked science and medically related stuff but having my undergrad done overseas and growing up in a repressive regime, I never really stood a chance of going into medicine. I tried convincing myself that science was just as good and that I could help many more people with my research and ended up getting a PhD.

The thing is that I am way too social to work in a lab. I enjoy meeting people and helping them and caring for them. I know that I'm meant to be a physician and won't be happy being anything else. Fortunately since I like helping people, I already have tons of volunteer hours that could go into my med school application but I basically reinvented myself and took a CNA type job to get clinical hours. Not gonna lie, I can't wait for this application year to be over and start school. CNA type work is hell. It's physically demanding and due to health issues, I struggle (I mean most people in their 30s should be ok with the work) and am subject to a lot of verbal abuse. Also, I'm soooooo poor because CNAs clearly make less than what a PhD would typically make.

But do I think it's worth it? Yes, I'm sooooo happy that I'm finally getting to go to medical school. The few years of getting my prereqs (had to redo a bunch of them and take some that I never took when I was an undergrad) and clinical experience has finally paid off. So, you're actually in a slightly better place than I am because you're gonna be getting your bachelors in the US which qualifies you for most schools in the US, if not all. Do you MCAT, finish your degree, but my main piece of advise is don't be shy asking for help. You'd be surprised how many people are willing to help. And if you don't ask, the answer is always no.

Don't aim for Caribbean schools, aim higher. There are many schools that value life experience. They want to build a diverse class. I know a cancer survivor who got into a Top 20 in her 50s after her kids are grown up. You need to work your USP or niche and research what schools value you.

Go attain your dream!

 

[olabrador23]

Thank you very much for those words!

Many nights I am lying wide awake thinking about how I am going to do this. Age is the one thing I am constantly concerned about. By now, I have heard many stories of people in their 50s going to med schools. Still I am very worried about my age. I guess I have to deal with the cards that I have. Hope to hear more from people in similar situation as stories like yours are big source of inspiration and encouragement!

Big congrats to your success!

 

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

An example of an incredible career change! I loved his characters.

Peter Wingfield - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Starting in 2011, Wingfield significantly reduced his acting career responsibilities. Returning full circle to his earlier interest in a career in medicine, he entered College of Medicine at the University of Vermont as part of the Class of 2015.[4][5] He received his white coat as part of the U.V.M. College of Medicine White Coat Ceremony in 2012.[6] In 2015, it was announced that he would be joining the residency program at the University of California, San Diego.[7]

He's now a CT anesthesia fellow at Cedars Sinai. Check out his Twitter!

 

[armoman898]

Doctor, maybe, but 31 is pushing it for surgeon. I doubt residency PDs want to invest in an older candidate for surgical training. I could be wrong though

 

[Dr. Let 'er Buck]

Many nights I am lying wide awake thinking about how I am going to do this. Age is the one thing I am constantly concerned about. By now, I have heard many stories of people in their 50s going to med schools. Still I am very worried about my age. I guess I have to deal with the cards that I have. Hope to hear more from people in similar situation as stories like yours are big source of inspiration and encouragement!

My situation was similar, but a bit different. When I started from absolute scratch I was 30. I should say that I started with a few community college 'F's from a failed attempt at college 15 years prior, so I was actually starting at less than scratch.

I'm now 35, have completed my undergraduate, and have been accepted to an M.D. program. I'm married and have two children. I had worked most of my time from high school until turning 30, as a firefighter and paramedic. The first thing I learned upon returning to school was how woefully deficient I was in core courses and the sciences. My GPA upon graduating high school was <2.0. I tested at a junior high algebra proficiency. I had never taken a hard science course, and my typing speed was abysmal. I also could barely run a computer.

I jumped into an 18 credit semester at community college to see if I could even handle academia. Through an INSANE amount of effort, I got a 4.0 that semester and the next. This was the time that we sold our home and moved a couple hundred miles to the state university.

The first time I set foot on campus was my first day of classes. I learned that many universities have orientation for traditional freshmen but nothing for non-trads like me. In my arrogance I thought "I've led companies of firefighters into the gates of hell, I'm sure I can navigate university life and pick up what I needed along the way".............. I was wrong. Day one, I had an online assignment due. I didn't even know how to log into the computer system on campus, use the wifi, or email efficiently. I plopped into class sizes of 200+ students who were well over a decade younger than me. They were still talking about high school drama while I, a burnt out paramedic, had to sit there and listen to the drivel. I friended a number of other non-trads who were in the same boat but they never stayed around long. The organic chemistries and microbiology tests would see these folks quietly drop out and vanish. They couldn't wrap their heads around working so hard for a professor who was the same age (or younger at times) than them. They fought against the asinine pre-med machine and instead of playing the game, chose to quit.

I went on the befriend the younger students and developed a number of close friendships. I took on a fatherly/big brother relationship with them. Growing up as a ranch kid, I had learned to work on cars and do physical labor. My young friends are WOEFULLY deficient in mechanical aptitude and I have become the de-facto person to ask when things get broken. I also offer sage advice gleaned from having lived a life outside of school. They still call me at 11pm to see if I want to meet at a local bar........ I usually tell them to go to bed and get off my lawn. These relationships are what probably allowed me to succeed in college.

Anyway, SOOOOO MANY non-trads start back into college and just rebel against the system. I don't know if it's stubborn pride or what. I also had a couple friends my age come in a pre-meds, only to fall back into the partying life and act like they're 21 again. One buddy even got a gal pregnant and had to drop out to raise the kid. So, for every story that talks about non-trads being successful and holding unofficial leadership roles in medical school, there are many dozens (hundreds??) more who could not adapt to academia and put pride aside. Returning to finish/start a pre-med undergraduate is daunting. The workload will absolutely seem overwhelming at some point and you will have to take crap from professors younger than you while navigating a system not built for non-trads.

All in all, I was able to complete my courses and show a massive GPA upward trend (4.0 my last two years), do well enough on my MCAT, interview well, be accepted into a program, maintain my sanity, and keep my home life intact. I wish any non-trad the sincerest hope that they succeed...... but I also warn that the path is littered with remnants of those who could not play the academia game.

 

[olabrador23]

My situation was similar, but a bit different. When I started from absolute scratch I was 30. I should say that I started with a few community college 'F's from a failed attempt at college 15 years prior, so I was actually starting at less than scratch.

I'm now 35, have completed my undergraduate, and have been accepted to an M.D. program. I'm married and have two children. I had worked most of my time from high school until turning 30, as a firefighter and paramedic. The first thing I learned upon returning to school was how woefully deficient I was in core courses and the sciences. My GPA upon graduating high school was <2.0. I tested at a junior high algebra proficiency. I had never taken a hard science course, and my typing speed was abysmal. I also could barely run a computer.

I jumped into an 18 credit semester at community college to see if I could even handle academia. Through an INSANE amount of effort, I got a 4.0 that semester and the next. This was the time that we sold our home and moved a couple hundred miles to the state university.

The first time I set foot on campus was my first day of classes. I learned that many universities have orientation for traditional freshmen but nothing for non-trads like me. In my arrogance I thought "I've led companies of firefighters into the gates of hell, I'm sure I can navigate university life and pick up what I needed along the way".............. I was wrong. Day one, I had an online assignment due. I didn't even know how to log into the computer system on campus, use the wifi, or email efficiently. I plopped into class sizes of 200+ students who were well over a decade younger than me. They were still talking about high school drama while I, a burnt out paramedic, had to sit there and listen to the drivel. I friended a number of other non-trads who were in the same boat but they never stayed around long. The organic chemistries and microbiology tests would see these folks quietly drop out and vanish. They couldn't wrap their heads around working so hard for a professor who was the same age (or younger at times) than them. They fought against the asinine pre-med machine and instead of playing the game, chose to quit.

I went on the befriend the younger students and developed a number of close friendships. I took on a fatherly/big brother relationship with them. Growing up as a ranch kid, I had learned to work on cars and do physical labor. My young friends are WOEFULLY deficient in mechanical aptitude and I have become the de-facto person to ask when things get broken. I also offer sage advice gleaned from having lived a life outside of school. They still call me at 11pm to see if I want to meet at a local bar........ I usually tell them to go to bed and get off my lawn. These relationships are what probably allowed me to succeed in college.

Anyway, SOOOOO MANY non-trads start back into college and just rebel against the system. I don't know if it's stubborn pride or what. I also had a couple friends my age come in a pre-meds, only to fall back into the partying life and act like they're 21 again. One buddy even got a gal pregnant and had to drop out to raise the kid. So, for every story that talks about non-trads being successful and holding unofficial leadership roles in medical school, there are many dozens (hundreds??) more who could not adapt to academia and put pride aside. Returning to finish/start a pre-med undergraduate is daunting. The workload will absolutely seem overwhelming at some point and you will have to take crap from professors younger than you while navigating a system not built for non-trads.

All in all, I was able to complete my courses and show a massive GPA upward trend (4.0 my last two years), do well enough on my MCAT, interview well, be accepted into a program, maintain my sanity, and keep my home life intact. I wish any non-trad the sincerest hope that they succeed...... but I also warn that the path is littered with remnants of those who could not play the academia game.

I literally have tears in my eyes. I can feel every word in your story. It confirms again to me that this is hard but it can be done!

I have always heard that non-trads bring another dimension to medicine. I think it is true. I feel that your passion, hard work and life experience will bring values to medicine in a way that a traditional student might never do.

I also learn that it is very important for me to not forget my goal and maintain discipline and this is a very long marathon and I have to work hard and take it day by day and hope time run fast.

A big salute to you! Wish you the best on becoming a doctor! Thanks!

 

[Sleepingdoc]

you can do it if you would like, have enough funds, are single... but if you have family- other obligations, its very difficult thing to do.. You will be early 40's when you are done.. If you consider the retirement age to be 65 .. you will have maximum 20 years to pay off loans and live life with a full time work at the hospital..
nothing wrong with doing this, as a matter of fact you are a lot more mature at that age than 20 year olds going to medical schools... but it takes a lot of time. and a lot of dedication.