Here is why some people fail Step 2 CS

[greatime]

“Boring job, useless company, lots of money for hardly any skills ”
Current Employee - Standardized Patient in Philadelphia, PA

Doesn't Recommend
Neutral Outlook
No opinion of CEO

I have been working at ECFMG part-time (More than 3 years)

Pros

Great co workers, free lunch and coffee.

Cons

This job eats away at your brain. You sit there, repeating the same lines over and over until you can't remember what the truth is anymore. The skills you develop here have no value at any other job, and there is no room for advancement for 99% of the people.

Advice to Management

Spend a day a year as an SP.




“MOST AMAZING 'JOB' I'VE HAD THE HONOR OF BEING HIRED FOR..!!!!! ”
Former Employee - Standardized Patient in Atlanta, GA

Recommends
Approves of CEO

I worked at ECFMG part-time (More than 3 years)

Pros

Excellent co workers that treat you like family and amazing morale as soon as you walk in the door. Good friends to be made guaranteed and you will never leave work feeling anything short of happy after hugging your colleagues on the way out. And as if that wasn't enough, they threw phenomenal employee parties and continuous training sessions throughout my career there...(a day in the life of a medical student examine etc....) Unlike other places I've worked I can honestly say the staff at ECFMG Atlanta truly cared for each and every one of their employees like we were one of their own. I hated I had to leave this position but had to due to a move to Charleston, SC.Show Less

Cons

Not enough locations throughout the country (to work at ). Also, while working as a standardized patient for four years at this location, playing the same case (Laura Richards) it eventually became tough working with some student doctor examinees taking the exam due to language barriers, the duration of the physical exams, or just the intensity of the physical exam, altogether. After 12 standardized exams per shift, it became difficult recalling the checklist information, but that was my own challenge at hand Show Less

Advice to Management

I love you all and miss you so much...I really hope you're all well and taking care of eachother just like you always have. Thank you for being a terrific example on how we should all treat eachother with respect and dignity while treating others the same way. XO

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[greatime]

“Boring job, useless company, lots of money for hardly any skills ”
Current Employee - Standardized Patient in Philadelphia, PA

Doesn't Recommend
Neutral Outlook
No opinion of CEO

I have been working at ECFMG part-time (More than 3 years)

Pros

Great co workers, free lunch and coffee.

Cons

This job eats away at your brain. You sit there, repeating the same lines over and over until you can't remember what the truth is anymore. The skills you develop here have no value at any other job, and there is no room for advancement for 99% of the people.

Advice to Management

Spend a day a year as an SP.




“MOST AMAZING 'JOB' I'VE HAD THE HONOR OF BEING HIRED FOR..!!!!! ”
Former Employee - Standardized Patient in Atlanta, GA

Recommends
Approves of CEO

I worked at ECFMG part-time (More than 3 years)

Pros

Excellent co workers that treat you like family and amazing morale as soon as you walk in the door. Good friends to be made guaranteed and you will never leave work feeling anything short of happy after hugging your colleagues on the way out. And as if that wasn't enough, they threw phenomenal employee parties and continuous training sessions throughout my career there...(a day in the life of a medical student examine etc....) Unlike other places I've worked I can honestly say the staff at ECFMG Atlanta truly cared for each and every one of their employees like we were one of their own. I hated I had to leave this position but had to due to a move to Charleston, SC.Show Less

Cons

Not enough locations throughout the country (to work at ). Also, while working as a standardized patient for four years at this location, playing the same case (Laura Richards) it eventually became tough working with some student doctor examinees taking the exam due to language barriers, the duration of the physical exams, or just the intensity of the physical exam, altogether. After 12 standardized exams per shift, it became difficult recalling the checklist information, but that was my own challenge at hand Show Less

Advice to Management

I love you all and miss you so much...I really hope you're all well and taking care of eachother just like you always have. Thank you for being a terrific example on how we should all treat eachother with respect and dignity while treating others the same way. XO

Job reviews from glassdoor.com

 

[Psai]

I could tell by the end of the day that the patients knew that the cage questions were coming and they knew that I knew that they would say they drink and that we were both tired of it. I did the most basic exam I could in every room and got out of there asap. Huge waste of money and the fact that we have to travel to certain testing sites is a travesty. One of the silliest hoops to jump through to graduate from medical school.

 

[Patho_logical]

This is pretty interesting to me. I'm one of the poor souls that failed (very borderline) on my first attempt.

I find it very hard to believe that the SPs can remember everything you said or did in a 15 minute encounter. And if they can't, then when they go to fill out your checklist you lose points. I really have no idea how they can justify requiring this exam. I guess since 90% of people pass they're all happy to just put it behind them.

1. It doesn't test any actual clinical skills outside of talking to a patient. Something all med students are evaluated on during med school anyway. You don't even have to actually be able to see the optic disc on your eye exam, or hear the heart when you auscultate. You just have to pretend.
2. The SPs grading is much too subjective.
3. Your note is graded by an unknown person, and you get very little information on how it's graded.
4. You get a useless score report that tells you absolutely nothing about how or why you failed.
I feel like I had a very comparable performance on my second attempt and all my bars were off the chart in the higher performance. It just proves to me that it's quite a subjective exam. I'm not even opposed to a clinical skills test, but I can't believe that they are allowed to fail you with basically no explanation. And it costs you another 1300 dollars + hotel stay + several months of waiting for the new score.

All of that without even mentioning the fact that this exam has the potential to affect where you end up for residency (if any program directors actually take it seriously...one person I interviewed with had no idea what the exam consisted of...all they saw was a fail on a Step exam...that can't look great for me) and by extension your entire career....

Anyway yeah...I think it's ridiculous. Glad to be past it.

 

[Numba1Plumma]

Anyone who didn't listen to heart and lungs on every patient that passed? I took the test in Philly in early Dec and only did so when necessary since it is focused and all lol

 

[greatime]

This is pretty interesting to me. I'm one of the poor souls that failed (very borderline) on my first attempt.

I find it very hard to believe that the SPs can remember everything you said or did in a 15 minute encounter. And if they can't, then when they go to fill out your checklist you lose points. I really have no idea how they can justify requiring this exam. I guess since 90% of people pass they're all happy to just put it behind them.

1. It doesn't test any actual clinical skills outside of talking to a patient. Something all med students are evaluated on during med school anyway. You don't even have to actually be able to see the optic disc on your eye exam, or hear the heart when you auscultate. You just have to pretend.
2. The SPs grading is much too subjective.
3. Your note is graded by an unknown person, and you get very little information on how it's graded.
4. You get a useless score report that tells you absolutely nothing about how or why you failed.
I feel like I had a very comparable performance on my second attempt and all my bars were off the chart in the higher performance. It just proves to me that it's quite a subjective exam. I'm not even opposed to a clinical skills test, but I can't believe that they are allowed to fail you with basically no explanation. And it costs you another 1300 dollars + hotel stay + several months of waiting for the new score.

All of that without even mentioning the fact that this exam has the potential to affect where you end up for residency (if any program directors actually take it seriously...one person I interviewed with had no idea what the exam consisted of...all they saw was a fail on a Step exam...that can't look great for me) and by extension your entire career....

Anyway yeah...I think it's ridiculous. Glad to be past it.

Thanks for this reply. I completely agree with everything you are saying. Especially the fact that our entire career hinges on the subjective/faulty scoring by SPs. I failed the CIS subcomponent.

The problem is the NBME answers to nobody.

They simply say "SPs are highly trained." I asked them to explain the training process that qualifies them to be highly trained and they refused to answer this question.

They also say, "the activities of SPs are closely monitored." I asked them to explain how and they did not respond.

Pretty corrupt if you ask me. My questions have nothing to do with exam content.

Where did you take your exams?

Is there anything you can think of that you did different the second time around?

 

[Patho_logical]

Thanks for this reply. I completely agree with everything you are saying. Especially the fact that our entire career hinges on the subjective/faulty scoring by SPs. I failed the CIS subcomponent.

The problem is the NBME answers to nobody.

They simply say "SPs are highly trained." I asked them to explain the training process that qualifies them to be highly trained and they refused to answer this question.

They also say, "the activities of SPs are closely monitored." I asked them to explain how and they did not respond.

Pretty corrupt if you ask me. My questions have nothing to do with exam content.

Where did you take your exams?

Is there anything you can think of that you did different the second time around?

First attempt was in Houston. I felt like it went ok outside of running out of time and leaving the work up section blank on 1 encounter. All the rest I finished totally in time, counseled, felt like I had a reasonable Ddx/work up. Failed ICE with several stars in the gray borderline area.

Second attempt was in Atlanta. It went much better, the trip in general I mean. Only slight mistake was having time called when I was halfway through my counsel, but I still basically wrapped up that case. The one difference I can think of is that I didn't include unlikely diagnoses. I think on my first test I put some things that were life threatening (but possible..and absolutely things any doctor would rule out). I read that you can lose points for that in the information guide so I fixed that. But I definitely don't think it should have been something that made that much of a difference in my grade. I still put most likely things higher up and didn't put any completely preposterous diagnoses down.

At any rate I don't see how I can have all these wonderful grades from attendings that I worked with for weeks and end up failing this "clinical skills test." I'm with you. I think the whole thing is broken, but since the NBME calls the shots we just have to deal with it I guess. Maybe I'm wrong and I missed a lot of important info. But if that's the case, we should be shown how we were graded and why we lost points. It's not like CK where you're obviously right or wrong.

Since I'm planning to go into pathology I think maybe it won't matter too much for my match (I hope). I can only imagine how upsetting this would be for someone hoping to match into a competitive specialty at a prestigious institution...

Have you retaken it yet? Good luck if not.
It's nice in a way to know I'm not the only one feeling cheated. Although, I wish everyone would pass the first time and not have to suffer through taking it again. CS is by far my least favorite experience from medical school.