Hemepath fellow cannot find a job.

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Of course emails are ignored. That is the beauty of email.

And a surg path fellowship in addition to subspecialty is essentially an unspoken requirement on the west coast.

bwhahahaha...6+ years of residency and fellowship to start at what? 175K if you are lucky.

pretty sad. Then you have the privelage of competing against two dozen applicants with 5+ years of actual sign out experience..good luck.

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One of the things that bugs me in threads like these is the implied arrogance of the people who say "I'm successful but the specialty in general sucks". As if they have some magic skill that no one else going into this specialty will or could ever have. I have the utmost respect and heartily congratulate those of you who are successful. However, saying that you're successful only because you worked hard and had opportunities come up that you took advantage of is about the farthest thing from a unique American success story that anyone anywhere could make up.

OF course it's hard, of course you need to be aware of opportunities and have the skills ready and the confidence at hand to exploit those opportunities. Of course Pathology shares significant challenges with every other specialty and some which may or may not be unique to us. Success in pathology (or any other profession anywhere throughout all of history) is a tough, grueling, sweaty mountain climb of a life. And yes you can fall off a cliff and have to start over occasionally, and yes you have to sometimes hike downward to get closer to the peak. That's why if you actually LOVE pathology that climb is going to offer moments of a profound sense of accomplishment and views back on what you've done and what you can do ahead that are breathtaking. If you don't love it you're going to feel and sound like Sisyphus much like many here do.
 
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Of our last four hemepath fellows here at my midlevel midwestern state university, two got nice private practice jobs, and two are still riding the fellowship train. Of note: the two still riding the fellowship train have not yet passed their AP/CP boards.
 
Of our last four hemepath fellows here at my midlevel midwestern state university, two got nice private practice jobs, and two are still riding the fellowship train. Of note: the two still riding the fellowship train have not yet passed their AP/CP boards.

"midwestern" being the key phrase in this post.

Location matters WAY more than anything else - fellowship, diagnostic skills, personality, etc. Location is the number one factor in the job search.
 
"midwestern" being the key phrase in this post.

Location matters WAY more than anything else - fellowship, diagnostic skills, personality, etc. Location is the number one factor in the job search.

I can see why so many people are having tough times finding jobs from reading their posts. For many, this is probably their first job hunt. Connections are most important in my opinion.
 
"midwestern" being the key phrase in this post.

Location matters WAY more than anything else - fellowship, diagnostic skills, personality, etc. Location is the number one factor in the job search.

Were the two jobs found in the midwest too? I didn't get that necessarily from the post.
 
One of the things that bugs me in threads like these is the implied arrogance of the people who say "I'm successful but the specialty in general sucks"....

My favorite variety is the old "there are always jobs for good candidates", with the implication being if you can't find a good job then you must not be a good candidate.
 
My favorite variety is the old "there are always jobs for good candidates", with the implication being if you can't find a good job then you must not be a good candidate.

Bastards.
 
My favorite variety is the old "there are always jobs for good candidates", with the implication being if you can't find a good job then you must not be a good candidate.

I dunno - There was a recent poll on this forum that suggested about a 3% unemployment rate among pathologists, according to my interpretation. I don't find it unbelievable that 3% of pathologists are simply bad candidates. In fact, I think it's probably charitable.

Other fields of medicine may have it a lot better - I suspect that more than 3% of family practice, psychiatrists, and IM docs are probably poor candidates as well, but their market is such that they get jobs anyway - something to think about, for sure.

Also, to be honest, pathology "unemployment" is of a gentler kind anyway. If you can't find a job after your fellowship, you can do another fellowship. Two fellowships seems to be the average in desirable areas anyway, and two pathology fellowships is still shorter than a single fellowship in most clinical specialties - and pathology reimbursement isn't particularly low in comparison to them either.
 
I dunno - There was a recent poll on this forum that suggested about a 3% unemployment rate among pathologists, according to my interpretation. I don't find it unbelievable that 3% of pathologists are simply bad candidates. In fact, I think it's probably charitable.

Other fields of medicine may have it a lot better - I suspect that more than 3% of family practice, psychiatrists, and IM docs are probably poor candidates as well, but their market is such that they get jobs anyway - something to think about, for sure.

Also, to be honest, pathology "unemployment" is of a gentler kind anyway. If you can't find a job after your fellowship, you can do another fellowship. Two fellowships seems to be the average in desirable areas anyway, and two pathology fellowships is still shorter than a single fellowship in most clinical specialties - and pathology reimbursement isn't particularly low in comparison to them either.

Ok. So just so we are clear - when someone comes to this board and posts that they are having trouble finding a job, you say to them that they must be a bad candidate, or they are lying about not finding a job. I'm not trying to mess with you, just pointing out the implied arrogance in the statement that "there are always jobs for good candidates". BTW, how did your job search go? Did you find a position that you are excited about?
 
Ok. So just so we are clear - when someone comes to this board and posts that they are having trouble finding a job, you say to them that they must be a bad candidate...

In short, yes.

Introspection is a skill(?) severely lacking in a good number of physicians, although not just pathologists.

Having come through a "top tier" program, I can attest to the fact that 3% is probably a charitable estimate. Actually, "top tier" status may even magnify the issue, considering that most of these folks do get jobs based largely thanks to brand-name recognition. All my peers got jobs. And yes, perhaps they've gotten better over the years of additional fellowship training and, now, on-the job training. Still, would I trust some of them to read slides if it was my tissue or that of my family and friends? No way!!!

That's the cold hard truth. To quote "Princess Bride": "Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something."
 
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Ok. So just so we are clear - when someone comes to this board and posts that they are having trouble finding a job, you say to them that they must be a bad candidate, or they are lying about not finding a job. I'm not trying to mess with you, just pointing out the implied arrogance in the statement that "there are always jobs for good candidates". BTW, how did your job search go? Did you find a position that you are excited about?

Well - I'm still a medical student, so I haven't found a job at all.

As for people coming to this board and posting about not finding a job - it doesn't actually happen that often. People usually post about people they know, or rumors they've heard. The actual people on this board appear to be 97% employed.

As for that last 3% - we don't know what's going on with them. I'm not sure that it is arrogant to assume that they may have some problem. It's probably more arrogant for them to assume that their situation is entirely due to things outside their control, like "pathology PDs", or "urologists".
 
Well - I'm still a medical student, so I haven't found a job at all.

As for people coming to this board and posting about not finding a job - it doesn't actually happen that often. People usually post about people they know, or rumors they've heard. The actual people on this board appear to be 97% employed.

As for that last 3% - we don't know what's going on with them. I'm not sure that it is arrogant to assume that they may have some problem. It's probably more arrogant for them to assume that their situation is entirely due to things outside their control, like "pathology PDs", or "urologists".

When I was a medical student, I didn't have time to post comments on a forum about a field and job that I didn't know a whole lot about. Maybe you should worry about getting a job :idea:
 
When I was a medical student, I didn't have time to post comments on a forum about a field and job that I didn't know a whole lot about. Maybe you should worry about getting a job :idea:

How do you recommend that I worry about getting a job? Do you think that making job surveys on this forum would be a pretty bad approach?
 
Well - I'm still a medical student, so I haven't found a job at all.

As for people coming to this board and posting about not finding a job - it doesn't actually happen that often. People usually post about people they know, or rumors they've heard. The actual people on this board appear to be 97% employed.

As for that last 3% - we don't know what's going on with them. I'm not sure that it is arrogant to assume that they may have some problem. It's probably more arrogant for them to assume that their situation is entirely due to things outside their control, like "pathology PDs", or "urologists".

How do you recommend that I worry about getting a job? Do you think that making job surveys on this forum would be a pretty bad approach?

Err, you don't know that much about a field and as a medical student, focus your time and energy into getting into a residency. Jeez.
 
How do you recommend that I worry about getting a job? Do you think that making job surveys on this forum would be a pretty bad approach?

Choose another field. We do not need your help.
 
My favorite variety is the old "there are always jobs for good candidates", with the implication being if you can't find a good job then you must not be a good candidate.

Yeah well, which I've been guilty of implying in the past in more flippant moments. I know it's not 100% true but I do think it is generally true. There are certain posters on this board that I know personally that complaining about the job market wouldn't distress me in the least. It would actually reassure me that the system works, similar to the two fellows mentioned on this thread who have yet to pass their ap/cp boards and don't have jobs. That's like a bus driver being angry that he can't find a job before he gets a driver's license.
 
Choose another field. We do not need your help.

Have you ever thought about taking your own advice? It's distressing to see people who are so dissatisfied with their jobs. Maybe you could teach Harvard faculty how to use excell or something.

EDIT: Or you could teach smart ass posters how to spell excel!
 
Have you ever thought about taking your own advice? It's distressing to see people who are so dissatisfied with their jobs. Maybe you could teach Harvard faculty how to use excell or something.

EDIT: Or you could teach smart ass posters how to spell excel!

I may have to at some point. Until then I will try to save the profession from academia living on subsidized residents, while simultaneously warning all who dare enter.
 
I may have to at some point. Until then I will try to save the profession from academia living on subsidized residents, while simultaneously warning all who dare enter.

That's stupid and lazy. All you would accomplish is pushing solid candidates to other specialties? Do you think bitching on this board and telling folks to run away will actually reduce training spots? No. You are just doing your part to ensure the quality of candidates is lower than it already is. Nice job.
 
Quailty candidates (heck most candidates) deserve a decent job market, this is something pathology can't provide. Programs are getting the quality of candidates they have earned. If that means a lot of subpar candidates then so be it. Don't put out a bunch of doctors that aren't needed. Slim the herd and you will get higher quality candidates.

"There are always good specialities for good candidates"
 
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That's stupid and lazy. All you would accomplish is pushing solid candidates to other specialties? Do you think bitching on this board and telling folks to run away will actually reduce training spots? No. You are just doing your part to ensure the quality of candidates is lower than it already is. Nice job.

"Bad" candidates will get trounced by superior pathologists and find themselves out of medicine (which they should be).

"Superior" candidates will find themselves in another field if what you say is correct, and undoubtedly happy they are in a field where they can control their own destiny.

I consider myself in the latter group and am grinding until this oversaturated market forces me to give up autonomy. Then I will do something else if I am financially able.
 
"Bad" candidates will get trounced by superior pathologists and find themselves out of medicine (which they should be).

"Superior" candidates will find themselves in another field if what you say is correct, and undoubtedly happy they are in a field where they can control their own destiny.

I consider myself in the latter group and am grinding until this oversaturated market forces me to give up autonomy. Then I will do something else if I am financially able.

So what's keeping the bad candidates from being trounced and forced out of medicine now? I don't see that happening. There are plenty of bad candidates and bad practitioners now. All your approach does is attempt to make sure there is more room for them to find a home in pathology.

Your efforts should be focused on proving the market is flooded and that a reduction is appropriate. That might be truth and if you feel passionate about it you should make the truth known. However, it should not be focused on scaring off potentially good candidates before your proof is voiced to parties that can make the decisions that you want made. The more good candidates there are in pathology make it more likely that your theory about the bad getting pushed out actually happens.
 
In today's lab industry, "Superior" are not forcing "Bad" out. To find employment all you have to do is embrace the race to the bottom. Many dont mind working for peanuts at an in-office lab and they are fine with being "owned" by a large corporate entity. There will ALWAYS be a place for subpar pathologists.

It is pathetic seeing superiors ***** themselves out to compete, but that is what you have to do to survive unlike other specialities.
 
Yeah well, which I've been guilty of implying in the past in more flippant moments. I know it's not 100% true but I do think it is generally true. There are certain posters on this board that I know personally that complaining about the job market wouldn't distress me in the least. It would actually reassure me that the system works, similar to the two fellows mentioned on this thread who have yet to pass their ap/cp boards and don't have jobs. That's like a bus driver being angry that he can't find a job before he gets a driver's license.


Whatever. A prolific publishing 'pathologists' did not have their ap/cp certification for nearly 25 years of practice. As for getting the certificate much later in life and after being a supposed mentor/academic pathologist, who knows ;)
 
So what's keeping the bad candidates from being trounced and forced out of medicine now? I don't see that happening. There are plenty of bad candidates and bad practitioners now. All your approach does is attempt to make sure there is more room for them to find a home in pathology.

Your efforts should be focused on proving the market is flooded and that a reduction is appropriate. That might be truth and if you feel passionate about it you should make the truth known. However, it should not be focused on scaring off potentially good candidates before your proof is voiced to parties that can make the decisions that you want made. The more good candidates there are in pathology make it more likely that your theory about the bad getting pushed out actually happens.

I can tell you we have lost business to bad pathologists due to low ball pricing and gained it back after bad outcomes.

If we lose business to good pathologists in our race to the bottom, we won't get it back.
 
I can tell you we have lost business to bad pathologists due to low ball pricing and gained it back after bad outcomes.

If we lose business to good pathologists in our race to the bottom, we won't get it back.

So what is your point again? Fill the field up with crappy talent?
 
Whatever. A prolific publishing 'pathologists' did not have their ap/cp certification for nearly 25 years of practice. As for getting the certificate much later in life and after being a supposed mentor/academic pathologist, who knows ;)

Ok if both of these other people are prolifically publishing good papers and still can't get jobs then that would be bad. That's not really implied here though. Plus I think diving into practice without board certification today may be a bit different than 25 years ago. I suppose if you know you're going to do mostly paper publishing, cool, I think a number of academic places will take you without that. Hell if you can bring your own salary to the table through research grants your board certification is going to be the last thing they ask you about way down the list after "are you going to get CAUGHT raping babies?"
 
This is most likely going to be my last post here, because reading some of these posts irritates the crap out of me, but I have not yet signed a contract and I will be finishing my fellowship in two months.

I went to a good residency (what most would consider top tier). I have never gotten into trouble. I passed my AP/CP boards on the first try at the end of my fourth year.

I am about to go on a second interview for an excellent job at a top university (in my geographic area of interest) so I'm hopeful this process will end soon.

But I am not a sucky pathologist. I work hard. I care about my coworkers and my patients. I am board certified. I am not geographically restricted. And guess what? I haven't signed a contract yet.

I know it must make those of you with a job feel so wonderfully superior to label those of us who are having issues with the market as bad pathologists. Whatever allows you to sleep at night. But as someone who has struggled in this market, I know that is not the case.

I love pathology, and if I end this process with a job, I won't regret my choice. But med students should be aware of the reality of the current market.

See you, SDN. Hope you never have issues with the job market. Wouldn't want you to be labeled as a bad pathologist.
 
One of the things that bugs me in threads like these is the implied arrogance of the people who say "I'm successful but the specialty in general sucks". As if they have some magic skill that no one else going into this specialty will or could ever have. I have the utmost respect and heartily congratulate those of you who are successful. However, saying that you're successful only because you worked hard and had opportunities come up that you took advantage of is about the farthest thing from a unique American success story that anyone anywhere could make up.

OF course it's hard, of course you need to be aware of opportunities and have the skills ready and the confidence at hand to exploit those opportunities. Of course Pathology shares significant challenges with every other specialty and some which may or may not be unique to us. Success in pathology (or any other profession anywhere throughout all of history) is a tough, grueling, sweaty mountain climb of a life. And yes you can fall off a cliff and have to start over occasionally, and yes you have to sometimes hike downward to get closer to the peak. That's why if you actually LOVE pathology that climb is going to offer moments of a profound sense of accomplishment and views back on what you've done and what you can do ahead that are breathtaking. If you don't love it you're going to feel and sound like Sisyphus much like many here do.

Yeah well, which I've been guilty of implying in the past in more flippant moments. I know it's not 100% true but I do think it is generally true. There are certain posters on this board that I know personally that complaining about the job market wouldn't distress me in the least. It would actually reassure me that the system works, similar to the two fellows mentioned on this thread who have yet to pass their ap/cp boards and don't have jobs. That's like a bus driver being angry that he can't find a job before he gets a driver's license.

Have you ever thought about taking your own advice? It's distressing to see people who are so dissatisfied with their jobs. Maybe you could teach Harvard faculty how to use excell or something.

EDIT: Or you could teach smart ass posters how to spell excel!


Ok if both of these other people are prolifically publishing good papers and still can't get jobs then that would be bad. That's not really implied here though. Plus I think diving into practice without board certification today may be a bit different than 25 years ago. I suppose if you know you're going to do mostly paper publishing, cool, I think a number of academic places will take you without that. Hell if you can bring your own salary to the table through research grants your board certification is going to be the last thing they ask you about way down the list after "are you going to get CAUGHT raping babies?"

Your last post is beyond inane. I rest my case but this is what you have to work with everyday... race to the bottom has been won by this pollyanna.
 
This is most likely going to be my last post here, because reading some of these posts irritates the crap out of me, but I have not yet signed a contract and I will be finishing my fellowship in two months.

I went to a good residency (what most would consider top tier). I have never gotten into trouble. I passed my AP/CP boards on the first try at the end of my fourth year.

I am about to go on a second interview for an excellent job at a top university (in my geographic area of interest) so I'm hopeful this process will end soon.

But I am not a sucky pathologist. I work hard. I care about my coworkers and my patients. I am board certified. I am not geographically restricted. And guess what? I haven't signed a contract yet.

I know it must make those of you with a job feel so wonderfully superior to label those of us who are having issues with the market as bad pathologists. Whatever allows you to sleep at night. But as someone who has struggled in this market, I know that is not the case.

I love pathology, and if I end this process with a job, I won't regret my choice. But med students should be aware of the reality of the current market.

See you, SDN. Hope you never have issues with the job market. Wouldn't want you to be labeled as a bad pathologist.

Que the arrogant posts of the fortunate now, swooping in to remind you that they worked hard, had a good personality, and read books in residency - while you must have been the guy who was a slacker who "they wouldn't trust with slides from themselves or family members" and other such nonsense. So many people are in the right place at the right time, starting the job search on 3rd base and thinking they hit a triple.
 
I hope Tiki stays around. She (I think Tiki is a girl, sorry if I'm mistaken) has been on here a long time... at least 5-6 years that I can recall. And if she's not geographically restricting herself and is having a tough go, then I put a lot of meaning behind that.

Good luck, Tiki. I know what you've written to be true, and I hope something works out for you.

This is most likely going to be my last post here, because reading some of these posts irritates the crap out of me, but I have not yet signed a contract and I will be finishing my fellowship in two months.

I went to a good residency (what most would consider top tier). I have never gotten into trouble. I passed my AP/CP boards on the first try at the end of my fourth year.

I am about to go on a second interview for an excellent job at a top university (in my geographic area of interest) so I'm hopeful this process will end soon.

But I am not a sucky pathologist. I work hard. I care about my coworkers and my patients. I am board certified. I am not geographically restricted. And guess what? I haven't signed a contract yet.

I know it must make those of you with a job feel so wonderfully superior to label those of us who are having issues with the market as bad pathologists. Whatever allows you to sleep at night. But as someone who has struggled in this market, I know that is not the case.

I love pathology, and if I end this process with a job, I won't regret my choice. But med students should be aware of the reality of the current market.

See you, SDN. Hope you never have issues with the job market. Wouldn't want you to be labeled as a bad pathologist.
 
Tiki, it must be stressful to not have a way to pay the bills in 2 months. What do you have lined up as a fall back plan? Another fellowship? I hope your upcoming interview works out!
 
So what is your point again? Fill the field up with crappy talent?

No. Decreasing the number of residency slots (see derm and ortho) will see to it that only top quality students get in. Unlike our field as it stands now, a default specialty for foreign grads who can't hack it more clinically oriented specialties (due to language/cultural barriers, etc).
 
No. Decreasing the number of residency slots (see derm and ortho) will see to it that only top quality students get in. Unlike our field as it stands now, a default specialty for foreign grads who can't hack it more clinically oriented specialties (due to language/cultural barriers, etc).

That's a fair opinion as long as you can prove that 1) there is an oversupply and 2) a reduction doesn't negatively impact patients.

Thrombus throws out blanket statements that candidates shouldn't pursue pathology due to his/her personal experience. Thrombus is being sensational and is doing the field more harm than good by attempting to scare away potentially solid candidates with blanket statements of doom and gloom.
 
That's a fair opinion as long as you can prove that 1) there is an oversupply and 2) a reduction doesn't negatively impact patients.

Thrombus throws out blanket statements that candidates shouldn't pursue pathology due to his/her personal experience. Thrombus is being sensational and is doing the field more harm than good by attempting to scare away potentially solid candidates with blanket statements of doom and gloom.

Unfortunately there is not enough work to go around. That is not sensational. That is fact. We do not need more pathologists. That is also fact.

I was told there would be a shortage decade or so ago when I considered pathology. A rare pathologist told me that was bunk. There is now a worse oversupply than there was then.

There is no work for medical students considering pathology.
 
Unfortunately there is not enough work to go around. That is not sensational. That is fact. We do not need more pathologists. That is also fact.

I was told there would be a shortage decade or so ago when I considered pathology. A rare pathologist told me that was bunk. There is now a worse oversupply than there was then.

There is no work for medical students considering pathology.

When I learned that representatives from the various big lab corps sit on the CAP, it made it quite clear why training programs are in overabundance and standards are not ideal.

Given that these corps are far more powerful than any physician group, your field is never going to recover, and things will go on as usual, even in the wake of diagnostic disasters and incompetent professionals being outed.

What a mess. But rather than sit her and gripe about it online, try running for positions on the CAP so that you can oust the corps.
 
Your last post is beyond inane. I rest my case but this is what you have to work with everyday... race to the bottom has been won by this pollyanna.

Has a single person on this board left pathology because of all the trouble they are having? One person? Has a single person left the specialty? Have you? Will you? You can go to work every day thinking the world sucks and is already over if you like; I have a good job and enjoy my work. I could join the coalition of the whining on here if I wanted. I could turn my everyday worklife into a miserable paranoid experience where every piece of news makes me more sure that I made a terrible decision in college to choose medicine in general and pathology specifically.

If everything is THAT bad then leave... rid the rest of us of your resentment and bitterness. Post from outside pathology about why you left and why they shouldn't come into the specialty. Or just keep being one of the poster's with a hole in your back for Thrombus' arm to fit, looking like a fat kid eating pie while screaming to everyone around him how awful it tastes and how they should forever avoid this pie. I don't trust that... no one else should either. If things suck so much, go away.

The job market like everything else in life isn't perfect, good (I assume) candidates like Tiki DO have a hard time sometimes. I've never disputed that getting a job can be hard and stressful. I've also never disputed that things could be better. If you want to take that reality and twist it into fatalist whining and sandwitch board phrases about the end being nigh great. In the end I have a feeling all you'll do is convince gullible idiots not to go into pathology, and really maybe that's a good thing.
 
Que the arrogant posts of the fortunate now, swooping in to remind you that they worked hard, had a good personality, and read books in residency - while you must have been the guy who was a slacker who "they wouldn't trust with slides from themselves or family members" and other such nonsense. So many people are in the right place at the right time, starting the job search on 3rd base and thinking they hit a triple.

All right, since it's somewhat directed at me, I'll take the bait. In part because I was being brief in my previous post and largely generalizing. Still, what I said there (in general) holds true, even you don't want to believe it. As you may have noticed, no one else "swooped in" to refute this.

In residency, I worked about as hard as everyone else in my program. We didn't read much, there wasn't ever much time for that. As for my personality, it's an acquired taste. I rubbed quite a few people the wrong way, in fact. Actually, so much so, that I had to go elsewhere for fellowship. At least I have enough insight to know exactly what particular aspects of my personality grate on people, also, what my strength and weaknesses are. Most importantly, I try to be myself. That may sound cliche, but I see a lot of folks in medicine pretending to be someone they're not; either by inflating their cognitive abilities, their interpersonal/"empathy" skills, or a myriad of other traits, and usually failing miserably. Anyhow, thanks to that, I have gained the respect of people whose references I can actually count on and whose opinions actually matter.

I started my job search half way through my 4th year. I wasn't geographically restricted, but I had a few strikes against me. Beyond the existent or non-existent "personality" issue, I was an IMG with potential visa issues. I cast the net far and wide, and networked quite extensively. I got a ton of non-responses, lots of "we've had too many outstanding candidates apply for this position", a few "you're not the candidate we're looking for", but ultimately I did have a few interview offers, and I went to a few of them. I secured a contract with almost 6 months to spare. Was I at the right place at the right time? Well, of course! Timing can be everything. It was the perfect job in a great place with some great people. But, it's not like the job opening was there all along, just waiting for me, like a long sought after soul-mate. I was at it for a year at this point.

Still, I don't recall ever saying to myself or coming on here to whine how much the job market sucks. And perhaps there is a reason, and since this has turned into one of these feel-good pull oneself up by one's bootstraps quasi-sentimental stories, I'll tell you my theory as to why. Prior to going into medicine I was in another industry, and having had to look for a job then I can tell you that it wasn't all roses. I didn't feel entitled to a job then, and I certainly don't now.

So, what makes you so special?
 
Unfortunately there is not enough work to go around. That is not sensational. That is fact. We do not need more pathologists. That is also fact.

I was told there would be a shortage decade or so ago when I considered pathology. A rare pathologist told me that was bunk. There is now a worse oversupply than there was then.

There is no work for medical students considering pathology.

So your position is that no pathologists should be trained at the moment?
 
So your position is that no pathologists should be trained at the moment?

What do you think? We don't need anymore at the moment.

Maybe we could cut 80% of all training programs. Eliminate them.

The status quo is ridiculous. I am tired of spending as much time fighting for specimens and reimbursement as I am taking care of patients. I know many who feel the same way.
 
What do you think? We don't need anymore at the moment.

Maybe we could cut 80% of all training programs. Eliminate them.

The status quo is ridiculous. I am tired of spending as much time fighting for specimens and reimbursement as I am taking care of patients. I know many who feel the same way.

80%? Really.... so in 15 years we'd go from one extreme to the other? It's obviously impossible to predict the precise labor force needed, but an 80% cut seems far excessive. If this were going to be seriously entertained, a more reasonable request might be a 10 or 20% cut in residency spots, then re-evaluate the job market every 5 years and adjust.

Of course this discussion is entirely pointless because the people who actually make these decisions could care less about the rantings of an internet forum.
 
I may have to at some point. Until then I will try to save the profession from academia living on subsidized residents, while simultaneously warning all who dare enter.

How exactly are you saving the profession? By posting anonymous semi-informed rants on the internet? How does that help? Or are you helping by not giving money to the CAP? Because neither of these things helps at all.

What about the people you "warn" about the field who sincerely love it and have an aptitude for it who then misguidedly take your advice and end up miserable in another field? Is that a victory for you?
 
The status quo is ridiculous. I am tired of spending as much time fighting for specimens and reimbursement as I am taking care of patients. I know many who feel the same way.

Yes, that would be every single person in the field of medicine. Every physician I have met except for the occasional few in academia complain about "too much administrative crap" and "too much paperwork" etc. Not enough reimbursement. Ever talk to an internist about how problematic it is to fill out the right codes on the right forms for the right diagnoses and tests so that you actually get paid? For other physicians it isn't specimens, it's referrals. Or it's something else. Everybody has problems. Unfortunately they don't teach much of how to deal with the real life part of it in med school or in most residencies.
 
What about the people you "warn" about the field who sincerely love it and have an aptitude for it who then misguidedly take your advice and end up miserable in another field? Is that a victory for you?

That is another myth and huge disservice. There is not one specialty that you can love. I know many pathology residents go into it because they "hated" all their third year rotations. But those people are weird and most normal people can enjoy multiple specialties. There might be a handful of specialties you love doing, there are likely many more you would enjoy and find rewarding. Some might be a better fit with your goals in life. Know yourself and pick your specialty with eyes wide open.
 
That is another myth and huge disservice. There is not one specialty that you can love. I know many pathology residents go into it because they "hated" all their third year rotations. But those people are weird and most normal people can enjoy multiple specialties. There might be a handful of specialties you love doing, there are likely many more you would enjoy and find rewarding. Some might be a better fit with your goals in life. Know yourself and pick your specialty with eyes wide open.

Well of course that's true, but it's also true that there are tons of people out there who picked a specialty for the wrong reasons and are now miserable and hate going to work every day. Personally, I am sure I would enjoy some other specialties. I would not do well in surgical/procedural heavy specialties, but medicine specialties I am sure I would.
 
Tiki, it must be stressful to not have a way to pay the bills in 2 months. What do you have lined up as a fall back plan? Another fellowship? I hope your upcoming interview works out!

Thanks!
It's very stressful. Thankfully I don't have any kids to worry about, and I suppose I could defer my loans. I don't have a backup at this point but I have gotten a few interviews in the last few weeks, so hopefully this will work out. If not, il will have to see if I can scramble into a fellowship, but there doesn't seem to be too many available either.
 
Just remember there are alot of pathology sharks out there so don't take the first thing that comes along just because it is a job.
 
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