HELP WITH RANKS

[haihai4]

haha sorry made this obnoxiously all caps...perhaps reflective of my agitation?

I narrowed down my top choices to these programs...and now I can't figure anything out.

Wisconsin-love love the program, wish it was in chicago. Would like to know-is this program well regarded in surgery? Has a ton of research money and newer faculty that seem to be doing big things...but also a couple people I talked to didn't even know about the program and I was surprised about it...
UChicago-love it also but not keep hearing they don't have enough operative experience...any thoughts on if this will change with new trauma center?
Cornell- I loved it on interview day only downside is nyc is expensive and I have heard that they have issues with malignancy
NYU- is this program prestigious? I am trying my best to balance prestige with fit. I fit really really well with the program. Also nyc is expensive.
Emory- everything is awesome but wondering why ppl tend to stay there for fellowship?
CCF- hands down best PD I have ever met, I hear this program is on a huge upswing. Tiny bit concerned about how many international students there are...diversity is awesome but also when there are so many IMGs start to question why that is happening since surgery is so competitive..
MGH- liked it, iffy about fit but I guess it has the prestige... (either way not top 3 for me...i don't know what top 3 is but MGH is not in it)

The other programs I have successfully dropped below these guys for whatever reason.
Would love love any perspective...losing a lot of sleep changing this thing so figured I would ask the internet/world.

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[Eithz H]

Hey bud, it looks like you have some great choices so if you end up at any of these you will be in a great position. So congrats on that. I am a fellow gen surg applicant so I may be able to provide some insight.

Cornell
For full disclosure, I heard the following opinions from two unrelated Cornell students (both of which are applying/have applied to surgical specialties for residency) who gave me pretty much the same story. It's important to consider that other students may have had other experiences and these only represent two opinions. So I hope you take this with the grains of salt you see fit.

These med students said the program was intensely malignant as experienced during their M3/M4 rotations experiences. Specific examples included a strictly hierarchical environment, junior residents walking on egg shells around chiefs/attendings, interns having emotional breakdown (more commonly than would be expected for a gen surg residency), overall extremely poor resident atmosphere, etc. The students also told me that no (or very few relative to class size) Cornell students have gone into gen surg for the past couple of years because their experiences were so poor during their rotations. I did hear that they are typically pretty proficient and have a decent amount of autonomy by the time they're done so that may be an upside. It's important to note that this conflicts with the nature of their interview day for applicants since I had a good friend who interviewed there and told me he really liked the program and people seemed cool.

Uchicago
I met someone on the interview trail who I talked extensively with and is a med student at UC and is going into gen surg. Student said all the residents are super cool/happy. I also know a gen surg resident who was a prelim at UC and said that program was awesome with great environment/people. I did hear however, that the operative experience could be on the weaker side. I definitely think the South Side trauma will help but it's important to remember that UC residents were rotating at Cook County for trauma before the opening of the new hospital so it is yet to be determined how much this will contribute.

Unfortunately I don't have too much good information on the other programs. But I will say one last thing....I always felt like prestige is a completely overrated factor. I say this because I tended to lend to much importance to prestige until I saw a couple of surgeons who came from great places who couldn't operate for ****. Their CV's were 30 pages long with publications in great journals but I wouldn't let them operate on my goldfish. They confessed to their colleagues (who I then heard it from) that it was the low operative volumes/large fellowship programs/extensive academic commitments that limited their OR experience. Just something to consider.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[haihai4]

Hey bud, it looks like you have some great choices so if you end up at any of these you will be in a great position. So congrats on that. I am a fellow gen surg applicant so I may be able to provide some insight.

Cornell
For full disclosure, I heard the following opinions from two unrelated Cornell students (both of which are applying/have applied to surgical specialties for residency) who gave me pretty much the same story. It's important to consider that other students may have had other experiences and these only represent two opinions. So I hope you take this with the grains of salt you see fit.

These med students said the program was intensely malignant as experienced during their M3/M4 rotations experiences. Specific examples included a strictly hierarchical environment, junior residents walking on egg shells around chiefs/attendings, interns having emotional breakdown (more commonly than would be expected for a gen surg residency), overall extremely poor resident atmosphere, etc. The students also told me that no (or very few relative to class size) Cornell students have gone into gen surg for the past couple of years because their experiences were so poor during their rotations. I did hear that they are typically pretty proficient and have a decent amount of autonomy by the time they're done so that may be an upside. It's important to note that this conflicts with the nature of their interview day for applicants since I had a good friend who interviewed there and told me he really liked the program and people seemed cool.

Uchicago
I met someone on the interview trail who I talked extensively with and is a med student at UC and is going into gen surg. Student said all the residents are super cool/happy. I also know a gen surg resident who was a prelim at UC and said that program was awesome with great environment/people. I did hear however, that the operative experience could be on the weaker side. I definitely think the South Side trauma will help but it's important to remember that UC residents were rotating at Cook County for trauma before the opening of the new hospital so it is yet to be determined how much this will contribute.

Unfortunately I don't have too much good information on the other programs. But I will say one last thing....I always felt like prestige is a completely overrated factor. I say this because I tended to lend to much importance to prestige until I saw a couple of surgeons who came from great places who couldn't operate for ****. Their CV's were 30 pages long with publications in great journals but I wouldn't let them operate on my goldfish. They confessed to their colleagues (who I then heard it from) that it was the low operative volumes/large fellowship programs/extensive academic commitments that limited their OR experience. Just something to consider.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Thank you, that was super helpful!

I love that UChicago is so academic...I feel like there's so much that can be done! But I hate that it's at the expense of OR time. Ultimately we want to be academic surgeons so it's sad to not get the full surgical part of the deal (IMO that's the more important part...).

Anyone have thoughts on Wisc, NYU, Emory? I spoke with a few of my mentors who are well known academic surgeons and they are all about Wisconsin with regards to operative experience and research (apparently everyone has a T32). My heart is kind of with NYU too but it's so far away from my family (wisc is closer-I'm from the midwest) and so expensive. Has anyone lived in Madison/knows if there are fun things to do there so that I won't go crazy as a resident?

 

[SpecializedSurgeon]

haha sorry made this obnoxiously all caps...perhaps reflective of my agitation?

I narrowed down my top choices to these programs...and now I can't figure anything out.

Wisconsin-love love the program, wish it was in chicago. Would like to know-is this program well regarded in surgery? Has a ton of research money and newer faculty that seem to be doing big things...but also a couple people I talked to didn't even know about the program and I was surprised about it...
UChicago-love it also but not keep hearing they don't have enough operative experience...any thoughts on if this will change with new trauma center?
Cornell- I loved it on interview day only downside is nyc is expensive and I have heard that they have issues with malignancy
NYU- is this program prestigious? I am trying my best to balance prestige with fit. I fit really really well with the program. Also nyc is expensive.
Emory- everything is awesome but wondering why ppl tend to stay there for fellowship?
CCF- hands down best PD I have ever met, I hear this program is on a huge upswing. Tiny bit concerned about how many international students there are...diversity is awesome but also when there are so many IMGs start to question why that is happening since surgery is so competitive..
MGH- liked it, iffy about fit but I guess it has the prestige... (either way not top 3 for me...i don't know what top 3 is but MGH is not in it)

The other programs I have successfully dropped below these guys for whatever reason.
Would love love any perspective...losing a lot of sleep changing this thing so figured I would ask the internet/world.

Lots of good options here; and for the record I’m not affiliated with any of the above.

Looks like your top rank right now is Wisconsin.
Awesome program, great reputation, the kids coming out of there can operate. We’ve had lots of faculty in and out of there, really seems like a model program.

Your concern about Emory and people staying — I’ve noticed this is a feature in the South where people get married/have kids a little earlier than other parts of the country. You’d be amazed at how much that plays a role in deciding to stay put.

Wouldn’t worry about NYU’s prestige (it is) but you just need to think about fit before anything else.

I’ve had a few close friends who trained at MGH and all think their training were tops (and all can operate).