Help! Want to apply to dental schools but student debt scares me

[CherryBlossom1412]

Hi guys!
I really want to apply to dental schools. I actually applied last cycle and didn't get in (it's probably because I took my DAT like at the end of August eventhough I submitted everything way before that --> my AA is 22, TS 24, RC 16, QR 20, PAT 20, OC 28, GC 21 [RC is probably another reason why I got rejected ...]). I want to reapply again this cycle but then I was reading several blogs about dental school debt and it scares me so much. I'm now turning 26 and if I get into dental school this cycle, I'll be 27 and be done with school at 30. I actually went to a workshop and they said it will take around 15-20 years to pay back all the student loans. I also read a blog and someone said the interests will be around 20-30k a year (can someone confirm this?). So I'm really scared about this and I dont know if I wanna be in debt for the rest of my life.

I also read several blogs written by dentists and most of them had back pain issues, and that some had to retire early because of it when they still have student loans to pay (( I really don't wnat it to happen to me in the future

I'm wondering whether "dental school debt is really manageable?". I know that are a lot of dentists who make it possible but the problem is I dont want to open my own office lol I dont wanna invest a lot of money (maybe another 500k or something aroudn that to open an office when I will have around 300-500k student debt already). I feel like I want to work in the hospital more but I also heard that it's hard to pay back student loans because you don't get paid that well by working for others/hospitals. I also heard that dental office is super saturated in big cities. I'm from northern CA and I really would like to stay here and CA is getting saturated with dentists too. I don't see myself moving in underserved areas to open an office as well (I heard it's better if you open an office ni these areas). I have considered army scholarships but then Idk if i wanna spend another 4 years working for the army (not even sure where they would send me to work at PLUS it's not guaranteed that I'll get the scholarship) because I want to start a family with my boyfriend asap after I graduate.

ANyone has this problem in mind like me lol I want to be a dentist but the debt really scares me >< Can anyone give me some suggestions on this? Any dentists in this forum who can give me an insight on this?
I have also considered another careers like CLS or nursing but I keep coming back to dentistry argh .. I raelly feel like I belong in dentistry but again the debt really scares me. I have a lot of friends who started as pre-dental but then changed to other careers along the way just because of the debt too.

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[crumps]

Have you thought about dental hygiene or dental assisting? Don't have to go into debt as much + not as rigorous schooling+ you don't have to own a practice? Have you considered going to dental school and then rather than practicing you can do dental research or be a lecturer/ be involved in organized dentistry?

There is also the nhsc scholarship which is similar to army scholarship but might have more control in where you end up. Also in terms of working in rural areas, why do you have to move to the rural area? Have you considered working in a rural area but commuting from a suburban area?

I feel like you have some valid reasons to be concerned about going into dentistry but havent put in a lot of research yet. Only apply to dental school if this is truly what you want.

 

[CherryBlossom1412]

Have you thought about dental hygiene or dental assisting? Don't have to go into debt as much + not as rigorous schooling+ you don't have to own a practice? Have you considered going to dental school and then rather than practicing you can do dental research or be a lecturer/ be involved in organized dentistry?

There is also the nhsc scholarship which is similar to army scholarship but might have more control in where you end up. Also in terms of working in rural areas, why do you have to move to the rural area? Have you considered working in a rural area but commuting from a suburban area?

I feel like you have some valid reasons to be concerned about going into dentistry but havent put in a lot of research yet. Only apply to dental school if this is truly what you want.

Hi! i didn't consier hygiene or assisting because I already got BS in biology and I know these careers don't require them. For some reasons I just wanna make sure I get to use my BS snce I put so much of my time in it already haha I know some people don't care but I do. I m actually not a big fan of research so I havn't really considered doing research in dentistry but being a lecturer actually sounds good. I havn't considered that and i'll look into it now. thanks!

WHen I talked about rural areas, I was referring to if i were to have my own office (from what I have researched), they said there're a lot of offices in big cities and the competition is really high so it's better to open an office in the rural area.

Thank you so much for your suggestions!

 

[crumps]

Hi! i didn't consier hygiene or assisting because I already got BS in biology and I know these careers don't require them. For some reasons I just wanna make sure I get to use my BS snce I put so much of my time in it already haha I know some people don't care but I do. I m actually not a big fan of research so I havn't really considered doing research in dentistry but being a lecturer actually sounds good. I havn't considered that and i'll look into it now. thanks!

WHen I talked about rural areas, I was referring to if i were to have my own office (from what I have researched), they said there're a lot of offices in big cities and the competition is really high so it's better to open an office in the rural area.

Thank you so much for your suggestions!

No problem! You can also go the public health route and maybe do lobbying in government etc. Basically there is a lot more to dentistry than owning a practice. Also while they do say you make more money opening a practice in a rural area, it doesn't mean you have to move to one. Live in the suburbs, but work in the rural area. There will probably be a commute but factors like that is up to personal preference

 

[HKSZYU]

I was in a nearly identical situation to you. Starting at late 20s, graduating early 30s, extremely debt averse. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer, but I can walk you through some of my thought processes. Maybe they’ll help you. I’m gonna use very rough numbers. I’m also going to assume you’re aware of scholarship programs (HPSP, FQHCs, etc.), so I won’t go into those here.


Let’s say you’ve got no undergrad debt, plan to go to a state school, and will finance your education entirely through loans. That means you’ll have to take out ~$250k for tuition + living expenses, and will likely end with a loan balance around $300k because of accruing interest, origination fees, etc. That means on a 10-year repayment plan, you’d be paying about $35k a year in loan repayment. Let’s say you get a corporate/associate job that pays $130k pre-tax, $90k post-tax, $55k post-debt-service. Now let’s look at some of the alternatives you’re considering. If you went down the hygiene route, you’d be making maybe $70k pre-tax, $50k post-tax. Even after servicing your debt, you’re still bringing home more as a dentist than you would be as a hygienist.


Now, in this example, you’re only bringing home about $5k more than a hygienist, which might not sound ideal, but realize your potential earnings as a dentist are much higher than your potential earnings as a hygienist. 3-5 years out of school, it’s very probably you’re going to be making $150-180k pre-tax, $95-120k post tax, $60-85k post-debt service. At this point your post-debt service take home is higher than the hygienists pre-tax salary. Once your debt is paid off, your take home really takes off.


I think if you’re able to keep your debt low, then dentistry can still make financial sense. There’s a lot of caveats to that statement though, and you’ll have to decide on your own personal deal breakers. For the first 5 or so years out of D-school, it’s very possible you’ll only be taking home slightly more than your hygienist, and I can see how that would be frustrating, especially for older applicants who maybe have less patience for “delayed gratification” and want to be able to start building a life. That said, the long-term return on investment is there; 15 years down the road, when student loans paid off and you have equity in a practice, you’ll likely be better off than most other paths that you’re looking at. Whether or not it’s worth the sacrifices for the short and medium-term is a personal decision.


There are other ways to get to a decent financial situation without the degree of sacrifice dentistry will take. This is especially true for you, because you mentioned you’re likely not interested in owning a practice. This is a perfectly acceptable desire, but realize it’ll likely put a ceiling on your earning potential. $180k, maybe $200k seems to be about as high as corporate/associate positions go. Docs that are making $200k+ are owners. But of course, they took out more debt and endured more delayed gratification to get to those numbers.


Lastly, if my only choice were to go to an expensive private school and graduate with $400-500k in debt, I personally wouldn’t go. In these situations, you’re stuck paying $5-6k per month for the next 10-15 years, or forced into a loan repayment program for the next 20 (with a large tax bomb at the end.) In these situations, I feel like the ROI just takes too long to materialize and the debt becomes quite shackling: it begins dictating where you can practice (going rural even if you don’t want to), what kind of jobs you can take, etc. $300k was the maximum I was willing to entertain.

 

[dent_wannabe]

My dentist told me that if you live as if you were a student, even when you begin making great money, you should have no problem paying it off within a few years.

 

[HKSZYU]

My dentist told me that if you live as if you were a student, even when you begin making great money, you should have no problem paying it off within a few years.

Not saying your dentist is wrong or right, but be careful when listening to anecdotal financial advice from dentists more than 5-10 years out of dental school . I've found many mean well, but the debt to income ratio that current grads are encountering is just not comparable. If you're debt is low enough, then sure this can work, and living like a student will allow you to attack your debt more aggressively. But if you're debt is too high and you're not interested in pursuing ownership, then you may be "living like a student" until you're 40.

 

[dent_wannabe]

Not saying your dentist is wrong or right, but be careful when listening to anecdotal financial advice from dentists more than 5-10 years out of dental school . I've found many mean well, but the debt to income ratio that current grads are encountering is just not comparable. If you're debt is low enough, then sure this can work, and living like a student will allow you to attack your debt more aggressively. But if you're debt is too high and you're not interested in pursuing ownership, then you may be "living like a student" until you're 40.

Oh, yeah my dentist paid in state tuition at the time, and is planning to retire within the next two years or so, so you do have a valid point…

 

[CherryBlossom1412]

Have you thought about dental hygiene or dental assisting? Don't have to go into debt as much + not as rigorous schooling+ you don't have to own a practice? Have you considered going to dental school and then rather than practicing you can do dental research or be a lecturer/ be involved in organized dentistry?

There is also the nhsc scholarship which is similar to army scholarship but might have more control in where you end up. Also in terms of working in rural areas, why do you have to move to the rural area? Have you considered working in a rural area but commuting from a suburban area?

I feel like you have some valid reasons to be concerned about going into dentistry but havent put in a lot of research yet. Only apply to dental school if this is truly what you want.

No problem! You can also go the public health route and maybe do lobbying in government etc. Basically there is a lot more to dentistry than owning a practice. Also while they do say you make more money opening a practice in a rural area, it doesn't mean you have to move to one. Live in the suburbs, but work in the rural area. There will probably be a commute but factors like that is up to personal preference

You're right abut the commuting. I was looking at public health dentistry and I find them very interesting! But the problem is they don't get paid as well as being a dentist who works in a clinic argh NOt sure how I'm going to pay off my debt with it, especially sometimes they require specialty in PH after D school.

 

[CherryBlossom1412]

My dentist told me that if you live as if you were a student, even when you begin making great money, you should have no problem paying it off within a few years.

I went to this one school's interview workshop and they said the paying the debt will take like 15-20 years tho. Maybe your dentist went to a state school and it didn't take him long to pay off (and it's probabloy a lot cheaper back then). I looked at all dental schools in the US and all the schools I could/want to apply (that my scores are competitive and not too far from home), they are all very expensive and costs around 300-500k)

 

[CherryBlossom1412]

I was in a nearly identical situation to you. Starting at 26, graduating at 30, extremely debt averse. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer, but I can walk you through some of my thought processes. Maybe they’ll help you. I’m gonna use very rough numbers. I’m also going to assume you’re aware of scholarship programs (HPSP, FQHCs, etc.), so I won’t go into those here.


Let’s say you’ve got no undergrad debt, plan to go to a state school, and will finance your education entirely through loans. That means you’ll have to take out ~$250k for tuition + living expenses, and will likely end with a loan balance around $300k because of accruing interest, origination fees, etc. That means on a 10-year repayment plan, you’d be paying about $35k a year in loan repayment. Let’s say you get a corporate/associate job that pays $130k pre-tax, $90k post-tax, $55k post-debt-service. Now let’s look at some of the alternatives you’re considering. If you went down the hygiene route, you’d be making maybe $70k pre-tax, $50k post-tax. Even after servicing your debt, you’re still bringing home more as a dentist than you would be as a hygienist.


Now, in this example, you’re only bringing home about $5k more than a hygienist, which might not sound ideal, but realize your potential earnings as a dentist are much higher than your potential earnings as a hygienist. 3-5 years out of school, it’s very probably you’re going to be making $150-180k pre-tax, $95-120k post tax, $60-85k post-debt service. At this point your post-debt service take home is higher than the hygienists pre-tax salary. Once your debt is paid off, your take home really takes off.


I think if you’re able to keep your debt low, then dentistry can still make financial sense. There’s a lot of caveats to that statement though, and you’ll have to decide on your own personal deal breakers. For the first 5 or so years out of D-school, it’s very possible you’ll only be taking home slightly more than your hygienist, and I can see how that would be frustrating, especially for older applicants who maybe have less patience for “delayed gratification” and want to be able to start building a life. That said, the long-term return on investment is there; 15 years down the road, when student loans paid off and you have equity in a practice, you’ll likely be better off than most other paths that you’re looking at. Whether or not it’s worth the sacrifices for the short and medium-term is a personal decision.


There are other ways to get to a decent financial situation without the degree of sacrifice dentistry will take. This is especially true for you, because you mentioned you’re likely not interested in owning a practice. This is a perfectly acceptable desire, but realize it’ll likely put a ceiling on your earning potential. $180k, maybe $200k seems to be about as high as corporate/associate positions go. Docs that are making $200k+ are owners. But of course, they took out more debt and endured more delayed gratification to get to those numbers.


Lastly, if my only choice were to go to an expensive private school and graduate with $400-500k in debt, I personally wouldn’t go. In these situations, you’re stuck paying $5-6k per month for the next 10-15 years, or forced into a loan repayment program for the next 20 (with a large tax bomb at the end.) In these situations, I feel like the ROI just takes too long to materialize and the debt becomes quite shackling: it begins dictating where you can practice (going rural even if you don’t want to), what kind of jobs you can take, etc. $300k was the maximum I was willing to entertain.

Wow thank you so much!!!! Yeah I really want to go to state schools but in CA where I live there's only one state school haha which is UCLA and it's super competitive to get in. And state schools in other states prefer their own state students + I'm not sure if I wanna live so far away from my boyfriend and family
I think I'm going to apply to state schools and see where I get in and whether i could afford it.
Just wondering, you're already a dentist right? Or in dental school? If so, what school did you attend? Did you only apply to state schools? i heard you should apply broadly whcih means private schools as well but they're so expensive. I'mw ondering if most dental schools offer some sort of scholarships to strong applicant as well (that's not just loans haha)

thanks so much again for taking your time to explain me about the repayment!

 

[HKSZYU]

Wow thank you so much!!!! Yeah I really want to go to state schools but in CA where I live there's only one state school haha which is UCLA and it's super competitive to get in. And state schools in other states prefer their own state students + I'm not sure if I wanna live so far away from my boyfriend and family
I think I'm going to apply to state schools and see where I get in and whether i could afford it.
Just wondering, you're already a dentist right? Or in dental school? If so, what school did you attend? Did you only apply to state schools? i heard you should apply broadly whcih means private schools as well but they're so expensive. I'mw ondering if most dental schools offer some sort of scholarships to strong applicant as well (that's not just loans haha)

thanks so much again for taking your time to explain me about the repayment!

I go to a midwestern state school. I got a moderate scholarship and had some savings, so my final debt burden upon graduation will be about $210k.

In relation to application strategy, CA is tough since even UCLA is fairly expensive. It'll still likely be your best option though. Alternatively, you can try OOS. Some have very high OOS tuition, but others are more manageable, and many allow you to apply to in-state tuition second year.

In relation to scholarships, some schools do offer scholarships. For example, my state school offered me $10k a year. One of the private schools I applied to offered $40k a year. My state school ended up still being less expensive even with the scholarship, so that's why I chose the state school.

In relation to application strategy, the smart option is to apply broadly. Personally I didn't because I had a strong desire to remain in a particular geography. I took that risk and only applied to 3 schools, two of which I qualified for in-state tuition, and one private school that I knew had generous scholarships. I didn't apply to any other expensive private schools because I want to start a family right after school and am not willing to go rural, so I knew getting myself tangled up with $400k in debt would be a bad idea. I wouldn't necessarily recommend applying as narrowly as I did, since dental school admissions are finicky and I could have very easily gotten none of those schools.

 

[ysrebob]

HYSZYU is giving you excellent advice - his #5 post above really hits the nail on the head. You are right to be concerned about the potential debt levels, and right that as an slightly older student your capacity to carry school debt is a little lower.

The big picture is that in a globalizing economy, the value of human labor is simply not as high as it was in the postwar USA our parents grew up in. The are 7 billion people out there, many of them willing to work waaaay cheaper. In theory the "professions" are able to insulate themselves from this by restricting entrance to their specialized fields of work, but in reality all the professions have been affected in one way or another over the past couple decades. In dentistry it shows up as a combination of rapid tuition inflation (lots of people elbowing for admission so schools can raise price with impunity) and as slow erosion in average DDS earnings (high tuitions have made it possible for existing dental schools to expand class sizes and for new schools to open, so the dental labor supply is growing).

Nevertheless I think dentistry has been more successful than most professions at maintaining its special position, and remains an EXCELLENT career path if you feel the work would suit you, and at public school tuition rates. Harder to make the numbers work at private school tuitions.

 

[artist2022]

Yeah I really want to go to state schools but in CA where I live there's only one state school haha which is UCLA and it's super competitive to get in.

Our two state schools are UCLA and UCSF.

 

[noretsu]

Hi guys!
I really want to apply to dental schools. I actually applied last cycle and didn't get in (it's probably because I took my DAT like at the end of August eventhough I submitted everything way before that --> my AA is 22, TS 24, RC 16, QR 20, PAT 20, OC 28, GC 21 [RC is probably another reason why I got rejected ...]). I want to reapply again this cycle but then I was reading several blogs about dental school debt and it scares me so much. I'm now turning 26 and if I get into dental school this cycle, I'll be 27 and be done with school at 30. I actually went to a workshop and they said it will take around 15-20 years to pay back all the student loans. I also read a blog and someone said the interests will be around 20-30k a year (can someone confirm this?). So I'm really scared about this and I dont know if I wanna be in debt for the rest of my life.

I also read several blogs written by dentists and most of them had back pain issues, and that some had to retire early because of it when they still have student loans to pay (( I really don't wnat it to happen to me in the future

I'm wondering whether "dental school debt is really manageable?". I know that are a lot of dentists who make it possible but the problem is I dont want to open my own office lol I dont wanna invest a lot of money (maybe another 500k or something aroudn that to open an office when I will have around 300-500k student debt already). I feel like I want to work in the hospital more but I also heard that it's hard to pay back student loans because you don't get paid that well by working for others/hospitals. I also heard that dental office is super saturated in big cities. I'm from northern CA and I really would like to stay here and CA is getting saturated with dentists too. I don't see myself moving in underserved areas to open an office as well (I heard it's better if you open an office ni these areas). I have considered army scholarships but then Idk if i wanna spend another 4 years working for the army (not even sure where they would send me to work at PLUS it's not guaranteed that I'll get the scholarship) because I want to start a family with my boyfriend asap after I graduate.

ANyone has this problem in mind like me lol I want to be a dentist but the debt really scares me >< Can anyone give me some suggestions on this? Any dentists in this forum who can give me an insight on this?
I have also considered another careers like CLS or nursing but I keep coming back to dentistry argh .. I raelly feel like I belong in dentistry but again the debt really scares me. I have a lot of friends who started as pre-dental but then changed to other careers along the way just because of the debt too.

Ill give you my 2 cents. Graduated with 300k+ in debt. Been practicing for 7 years and finally paid them off. Worked really hard and sacraficed alot. I absolutely wouldnt recommend dental school nowdays. Corporate has taken over. Getting harder and harder out there. I work rural and starting to feel the squeeze where I am as well. 300-500k debt is crushing. I think it is good you are asking the question bc I wish I had before I started. I just figured all dentist were rich. Reality check when I graduated. 90%+ new grads really struggling nowdays with these tuition bumps and dental saturation. There is no shortage despite what they tell you.

 

[Roy Williams]

90%+ new grads really struggling nowdays

I doubt this.

 

[noretsu]

I doubt this.

Just telling you my experience you dont have to believe it.

 

[BasicG]

Ill give you my 2 cents. Graduated with 300k+ in debt. Been practicing for 7 years and finally paid them off. Worked really hard and sacraficed alot. I absolutely wouldnt recommend dental school nowdays. Corporate has taken over. Getting harder and harder out there. I work rural and starting to feel the squeeze where I am as well. 300-500k debt is crushing. I think it is good you are asking the question bc I wish I had before I started. I just figured all dentist were rich. Reality check when I graduated. 90%+ new grads really struggling nowdays with these tuition bumps and dental saturation. There is no shortage despite what they tell you.

I've always been unsure about the HPSP, but posts like this make it seem like a better idea. I'm applying this cycle, but best case scenario is I get 280k of debt after 4 years with accrued interest