Help please, deciding b/w SABA and Limerick

[sharpshooter123]

I got accepted into both schools and I am a canadian who obv wants to match back to Canada. Which school would be more beneficial for me to match back? SABA in the carribs or Limerick in Ireland?
They both have good match rates..

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[NeuroCritDoc]

Although you'll rotate through US hospitals with SABA, you'll always face the stigma of being a Caribbean grad. Although SABA match rates are ok you'll see that the matches are mainly to FM and IM and low-mid tier programs. It'll be extremely difficult to obtain a speciality. My advice would be to take Limerick. It's match rates and match specialities speaks for itself.

 

[PhysioMD]

My 2 cents: SABA only because you will spend 2 full years doing North American rotations. People I know in Ireland have said they faced stigma in Canada even as Irish students "you couldn't get into Canada?" was something pretty much each of my friends heard at least once (interestingly they did not experience the stigma in US).
In order to match into Canadian residency you will need the following: strong board scores, experiences related to your area of choice, and strong letters of reference. Trust me when I say that much of this process is about connections and having good letters. In order to do that you will need to spend several weeks back in Canada impressing doctors. I think you will be much better off spending 2 years in US as a clerk, getting American experience, and also much closer to fly to Canada on time off (holidays, summers) to do electives.

Note, most foreign grads will end up going into FM or IM in Canada no matter where they study. Very very few match into something competitive like ENT or plastics or neurosurgery. So there's no ideal place to go to match into those, except of course to get into Canada or US schools. If you are set on a competitive specialty my first advice is to improve your app and try again, second step would be consider DO, finally consider going abroad.

 

[CanaD0c]

SABA is probably better for a US match. Irish medical schools have better match records for Canada. This is based purely on what I've read in forums though, I'm not sure statistics wise.

 

[sharpshooter123]

My 2 cents: SABA only because you will spend 2 full years doing North American rotations. People I know in Ireland have said they faced stigma in Canada even as Irish students "you couldn't get into Canada?" was something pretty much each of my friends heard at least once (interestingly they did not experience the stigma in US).
In order to match into Canadian residency you will need the following: strong board scores, experiences related to your area of choice, and strong letters of reference. Trust me when I say that much of this process is about connections and having good letters. In order to do that you will need to spend several weeks back in Canada impressing doctors. I think you will be much better off spending 2 years in US as a clerk, getting American experience, and also much closer to fly to Canada on time off (holidays, summers) to do electives.

Note, most foreign grads will end up going into FM or IM in Canada no matter where they study. Very very few match into something competitive like ENT or plastics or neurosurgery. So there's no ideal place to go to match into those, except of course to get into Canada or US schools. If you are set on a competitive specialty my first advice is to improve your app and try again, second step would be consider DO, finally consider going abroad.

Thank you for that. Thats what Ive been advised as well. But other people have said Limerick because of its high Match rate back to Canada. Wouldn't it more wise to do that since limerick graduates are so successful. Also, since I am a canadian, am I even at a greater disadvantage due to the difficulty of obtaining visas?

 

[deleted158872]

I got accepted into both schools and I am a canadian who obv wants to match back to Canada. Which school would be more beneficial for me to match back? SABA in the carribs or Limerick in Ireland?
They both have good match rates..

Limerick, no question asked.
Ireland >>>>> Caribbean.
please research a bit on Carib before you decide to jump there. Carib schools do try their best to weed out students; about half of the class are dismissed before they can take the USMLE. the environment is very stiffened as well.
also which country do you want to live in for at least 2 years? Ireland is 1st world; Carib is 3rd world.
the match rates for Canadians from Carib aren't any better than Ireland.
In general, being an IMG is hard- but if you need to come from anywhere, Ireland and Australia are probably the front runners; I know of more Irish/Australian grads in the US than carribean ones; far less of a stigma against them.
last but not least, the clinical training across Ireland is superb! something that Carib will never come close to (after all, Ireland trains you to become doctors who can work in the Irish system, NOT some for-profit entities).

 

[sharpshooter123]

Limerick, no question asked.
Ireland >>>>> Caribbean.
please research a bit on Carib before you decide to jump there. Carib schools do try their best to weed out students; about half of the class are dismissed before they can take the USMLE. the environment is very stiffened as well.
also which country do you want to live in for at least 2 years? Ireland is 1st world; Carib is 3rd world.
the match rates for Canadians from Carib aren't any better than Ireland.
In general, being an IMG is hard- but if you need to come from anywhere, Ireland and Australia are probably the front runners; I know of more Irish/Australian grads in the US than carribean ones; far less of a stigma against them.
last but not least, the clinical training across Ireland is superb! something that Carib will never come close to (after all, Ireland trains you to become doctors who can work in the Irish system, NOT some for-profit entities).

Thank you for that. I did do research into the Carib and from what Ive seen SABA does a good job matching canadians back. But yes, that environment (island/cut throat) is not appealing. Im not afraid of being weeded out because I will work my butt off but at the end of the day im struggling to see which is more important: doing clinicals in US if I go to Saba VS the history of decent CARMS match rate for limerick.

 

[Gos81238ia]

Thank you for that. I did do research into the Carib and from what Ive seen SABA does a good job matching canadians back. But yes, that environment (island/cut throat) is not appealing. Im not afraid of being weeded out because I will work my butt off but at the end of the day im struggling to see which is more important: doing clinicals in US if I go to Saba VS the history of decent CARMS match rate for limerick.

You get 4 months of elective time in Limerick to do rotations in Canada and the states, plus some core rotations can be done in North America. You just need enough rotations to get your 3-5 ERAS letters for residency applications, so doing 2 years of them isn't more advantageous than doing 4 months. Plus the hospitals in the states affiliated with Caribbean schools are not great. If you go to an Irish school, students here set up electives at phenomenal institutions including Harvard, Columbia, Dartmouth, Emory, Mayo clinic, Cleveland clinic etc. in addition to all the Canadian med schools.

 

[binks3]

You get 4 months of elective time in Limerick to do rotations in Canada and the states, plus some core rotations can be done in North America. You just need enough rotations to get your 3-5 ERAS letters for residency applications, so doing 2 years of them isn't more advantageous than doing 4 months. Plus the hospitals in the states affiliated with Caribbean schools are not great. If you go to an Irish school, students here set up electives at phenomenal institutions including Harvard, Columbia, Dartmouth, Emory, Mayo clinic, Cleveland clinic etc. in addition to all the Canadian med schools.

At Limerick we do not get 4 months of elective time. In the summer between 3rd and 4th year we get 13 weeks (this is new for this year, we previously only had 11 weeks). Also, we are NOT ALLOWED TO COMPLETE CORE ROTATIONS IN NORTH AMERICA.

 

[sharpshooter123]

At Limerick we do not get 4 months of elective time. In the summer between 3rd and 4th year we get 13 weeks (this is new for this year, we previously only had 11 weeks). Also, we are NOT ALLOWED TO COMPLETE CORE ROTATIONS IN NORTH AMERICA.

Thats it 13 weeks between 3rd and 4th year? Is that enough to do both Canadian and US electives? Also Im curious if we're allowed to do observerships/electives after like first year. I know UQ med students have electives or something after first year. One guy said after 1st year he went to St.Joseph in Hamilton and they gave him a lot of clinical experience..

 

[sassa]

Thats it 13 weeks between 3rd and 4th year? Is that enough to do both Canadian and US electives? Also Im curious if we're allowed to do observerships/electives after like first year. I know UQ med students have electives or something after first year. One guy said after 1st year he went to St.Joseph in Hamilton and they gave him a lot of clinical experience..

Yup 12-13 weeks. Most do 10 weeks, though you could do the full 12 weeks. You can do both US and Canadian if you want to, depending on what you want to do and where you want to go.

You can't submit letters of reference unless you did the experience within one year of CaRMS. You can do observerships before 3rd year, and set something up from that to get a LoR after 3rd year if you do more work with them. The amount of hands on experience varies though for pre-clerkship observerships - some places you strictly observe, others will let you do things. Depends on practice / hospital / preceptor / rapport everything. I had a classmate suturing in GenSurg summer after first year, that's rare enough. I was seeing patients at a GP clinic same time. But my hospital observerships it was strictly watch only.

 

[Gos81238ia]

At Limerick we do not get 4 months of elective time. In the summer between 3rd and 4th year we get 13 weeks (this is new for this year, we previously only had 11 weeks). Also, we are NOT ALLOWED TO COMPLETE CORE ROTATIONS IN NORTH AMERICA.

My mistake, I guess there are some really great sounding rumours floating around about Limerick

 

[Medstart108]

I would personally choose Limerick for matching back to Canada. I have studied in both the British as well as Canadian systems and I feel like the systems are going to be much closer to each other than the Caribbean is.

The matches from Ireland are definitely better than what you will see coming from the Caribbean.

 

[UBC2014]

At Limerick we do not get 4 months of elective time. In the summer between 3rd and 4th year we get 13 weeks (this is new for this year, we previously only had 11 weeks). Also, we are NOT ALLOWED TO COMPLETE CORE ROTATIONS IN NORTH AMERICA.

This, not sure what the other posted was on. Only carrib schools are set up for core rotations in the US as far as I know.

 

[UBC2014]

Yup 12-13 weeks. Most do 10 weeks, though you could do the full 12 weeks. You can do both US and Canadian if you want to, depending on what you want to do and where you want to go.

You can't submit letters of reference unless you did the experience within one year of CaRMS. You can do observerships before 3rd year, and set something up from that to get a LoR after 3rd year if you do more work with them. The amount of hands on experience varies though for pre-clerkship observerships - some places you strictly observe, others will let you do things. Depends on practice / hospital / preceptor / rapport everything. I had a classmate suturing in GenSurg summer after first year, that's rare enough. I was seeing patients at a GP clinic same time. But my hospital observerships it was strictly watch only.

I sutured 6 patients 2 months into med school....if you're taught what to do, simple sutures aren't too hard. Its not really some.amazing experience. Its just basic clinical work.

 

[Mad Jack]

If you can get a training spot in the UK, Ireland, the US, Australia, OR Canada, there is some interoperability in regard to training (particularly in FM) so you could at least hope that if things don't pan out you can train elsewhere and come back to Canada. Limerick gives you a better shot at that.

 

[sassa]

I sutured 6 patients 2 months into med school....if you're taught what to do, simple sutures aren't too hard. Its not really some.amazing experience. Its just basic clinical work.

It's not that we didn't know how to suture, it's the rules of observerships and if your preceptor follows them. e.g. one of mine at Western summer after first year told me to scrub to close, then asked what my title on my paperwork for the hospital was. Once I said observer, he apologized and said he couldn't let me. That went for fully qualified visitors who were there just on observership status and they have 20 more years of experience.

For some, doing anything hands on early on is an amazing experience when you get to do it, instead of waiting and watching. I don't blame anyone who wants to get as much experience or clinical work that they can when they can.

 

[UBC2014]

It's not that we didn't know how to suture, it's the rules of observerships and if your preceptor follows them. e.g. one of mine at Western summer after first year told me to scrub to close, then asked what my title on my paperwork for the hospital was. Once I said observer, he apologized and said he couldn't let me. That went for fully qualified visitors who were there just on observership status and they have 20 more years of experience.

For some, doing anything hands on early on is an amazing experience when you get to do it, instead of waiting and watching. I don't blame anyone who wants to get as much experience or clinical work that they can when they can.

Agreed, more so just meant not to worry about those things in the first few years. Plenty of time for that in 3/4 year

 

[sharpshooter123]

hmmmm okay thanks everyone for your input. Most likely I am going with Limerick.

 

[blytheyyz]

hmmmm okay thanks everyone for your input. Most likely I am going with Limerick.

@sharpshooter123 I think you should come to Limerick! I know a resident at my work who went to the carib and she said she wished she went to Ireland. It ended up working out well for her in the end but she said her time there was really hard and she didn't feel supported at all at school.

 

[deleted390966]

You get 4 months of elective time in Limerick to do rotations in Canada and the states, plus some core rotations can be done in North America. You just need enough rotations to get your 3-5 ERAS letters for residency applications, so doing 2 years of them isn't more advantageous than doing 4 months. Plus the hospitals in the states affiliated with Caribbean schools are not great. If you go to an Irish school, students here set up electives at phenomenal institutions including Harvard, Columbia, Dartmouth, Emory, Mayo clinic, Cleveland clinic etc. in addition to all the Canadian med schools.

I applied to ABP so I did a bit of research on this. Of course if you can secure enough electives, 2 years isn't more advantageous than 2 months. The problem is the difficulty of obtaining electives. Besides programs that never accept IMGs, a handful of programs that accepted IMGs 1-3 years ago now no longer do, and that might become the trend in the near future. The second factor has to do with elective timing: Irish schools typically allow you 2-3 months in the summer to do electives, yet some programs state that IMGs are not allowed to enter in the summers (I believe UCSD is one) and that has to do with competition from AMGs. Some programs (ie, Harvard) require other things (ie, your med school must be part of a university -> so RCSI isn't eligible but RCSI has formal affiliations with a lot of other US universities it doesn't matter).