Help me determine my future SDN! Ortho residency or not

[CaliDDS1986]

Hey guys,

I’ve been a GP for 10 years, 37 married, no kids. I was accepted to an orthodontics residency program, and am debating if I should attend. The program is just massively expensive at about 300k. I have no student loans and about 400k in savings so I could pay for the program in cash and graduate with no loans. FWIW I make about 225-250k as a GP associate. Essentially I’m starting over financial wise at 40. I already do some ortho, just never a fan of the physical or mental aspects of general dentistry. Should I go to residency?

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[Saddleshoes]

Sounds like a case of "Midlife Crazies" to me. That happens when you find out that life is just a job and a house payment.

I would suggest forgetting Ortho. school. Get a sports car and a younger women instead. (Just my 2 cents.)

 

[allDAT]

Hey guys,

I’ve been a GP for 10 years, 37 married, no kids. I was accepted to an orthodontics residency program, and am debating if I should attend. The program is just massively expensive at about 300k. I have no student loans and about 400k in savings so I could pay for the program in cash and graduate with no loans. FWIW I make about 225-250k as a GP associate. Essentially I’m starting over financial wise at 40. I already do some ortho, just never a fan of the physical or mental aspects of general dentistry. Should I go to residency?

Are you going to buy a practice and how long do you want to practice for?

If you went Ortho would you mind spending 500-700k to buy an decent office?

Is your wife on board with you going back to school?

 

[CaliDDS1986]

Are you going to buy a practice and how long do you want to practice for?

If you went Ortho would you mind spending 500-700k to buy an decent office?

Is your wife on board with you going back to school?

I would if I found a good one to buy, otherwise my plan is to associate out of residency. I wouldn’t mind spending the $$ if it was a solid practice. She is very supportive.

 

[2TH MVR]

You're 37 and have been associating for all this time. If associating is your end game, then spending the money on ortho would make sense. An orthodontist employee working for a Corp will make more than 250K. If you work full time .... you can make over 400K at a Corp. You can make up for the cost in a few years. Yes. Lost opportunity costs will be mentioned. But. It's your life. If this is what you want to do .... then do it. I prefer lost LIFE costs over lost opportunity costs.

The hardest part is being a "student" again.

The beauty of ortho is that you can practice for as long as you want. I'm 59 and I will practice for as long as I WANT. I will not be forced into retirement because I HATE my job. I fully enjoy my profession.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[P7898]

Hey guys,

I’ve been a GP for 10 years, 37 married, no kids. I was accepted to an orthodontics residency program, and am debating if I should attend. The program is just massively expensive at about 300k. I have no student loans and about 400k in savings so I could pay for the program in cash and graduate with no loans. FWIW I make about 225-250k as a GP associate. Essentially I’m starting over financial wise at 40. I already do some ortho, just never a fan of the physical or mental aspects of general dentistry. Should I go to residency?

Buy a GP practice or do a partnership in a group practice if you want the best financial gain.

However, if your spouse is onboard, do what you love and do not look back. Just do not think about retiring for a while. If you are going into ortho because of the less physical demand be cautious - you have to be fully invested to excel in specialties per my specialist buddies. But I am confident you will succeed at whatever you do since you seem to be doing fine as an associate. Best of luck!

 

[CaliDDS1986]

Whats your vote, @Big Time Hoosier

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Whats your vote, @Big Time Hoosier

I went back to residency “later in life.” However, I was paid to be there and it was 2 years. If I had to throw away $1,000,000 (between direct costs and opportunity costs), I wouldn’t have done it.

Big Hoss

 

[CaliDDS1986]

I went back to residency “later in life.” However, I was paid to be there and it was 2 years. If I had to throw away $1,000,000 (between direct costs and opportunity costs), I wouldn’t have done it.

Big Hoss

Appreciate it, thanks.

Sometimes I think opportunity costs are a wash. If I stay as a GP I would probably cut back to part time lowering my income. It’s common sense, but the more you enjoy something the more you’ll do it and it wont seem as bad.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Appreciate it, thanks.

Sometimes I think opportunity costs are a wash. If I stay as a GP I would probably cut back to part time lowering my income. It’s common sense, but the more you enjoy something the more you’ll do it and it wont seem as bad.

OP should just roll that $400,000 entirely into Bitcoin. Either they turn that into an absolute fortune and have a Lamborghini Aventador SVJ Roadster as a daily driver, or they learn to never trust an anonymous person on the internet for financial advice.

Big Hoss

 

[charlestweed]

Appreciate it, thanks.

Sometimes I think opportunity costs are a wash. If I stay as a GP I would probably cut back to part time lowering my income. It’s common sense, but the more you enjoy something the more you’ll do it and it wont seem as bad.

Even if you reduce your days working as a general dentist, it’s still general dentistry job…. still a very stressful job.

You don’t have kids and you got accepted to an ortho program. Then DO IT. It doesn’t make any sense to go through all the troubles (studying for the GRE/ADAT, getting the LOR’s from the professors, paying for the application fees, paying for flights/hotels for interviews, and forcing yourself to say nice things to the interviewers etc) applying for ortho and now you have a second thought about it. I thought when you decided to apply for ortho, you had seen enough general dentistry and wanted to quit general dentistry.

You should be glad that you are in the position where you are right now. I have met lot of older dentists (they work at the same corp with me) like you who want to get out of the misery of working as a general dentist and have an easy well paid job like me. But they can’t either because they have family and kids (it’s hard to take a risk when you have kids to support) or they don’t have good enough stats to get in. If you don’t have a lot of hobbies , then working as an ortho is a great way to enjoy your semi-retired life like what 2THMVR and I are doing right now.

Having zero debt after graduation (at 40) is a huge plus. You don’t have any kids to support and to save for their college education. You will be right at Dave Ramsey’s baby step 7 and that is to build wealth and to give. I didn’t reach this step 7 until last year…when I was 49.

 

[allDAT]

Hm…without kids do you really need much more than you have or plan to have in the next decade if you continue on your current path? You should be able to be financially independent by 50.

Do you want financial independence or to be an Ortho? If you want to be an Ortho, and your wife is on board like you say she is. Do it.

 

[Boat on the Chesapeake]

How many months is the program? 24?

If the money was going to end up being a tie over the course of your career no matter what options you choose, would you still rather be doing ortho the next 20 years instead of drilling?

Do you have enough enthusiasm for the specialty to stomach a lot of article reading, presentations, conferences, and other non-clinical stuff the next few years?

Just things to think about, there’s no objectively right answer.

 

[yappy]

I say go for it if you like orthodontics. Why not?

I think you’re too young to slow down or think of retirement. People decline so much when they leave the workforce. What better way to extend your career than specializing?

 

[CaliDDS1986]

Wow didnt expect such unanimous results, thanks SDN! Back to the student life…

 

[deleted1047421]

I’d do ortho if I were you. Good luck young man.

 

[D1Bound]

I didn’t expect everyone to suggest to do ortho! It seems like an awesome speciality. The programs pumping out tons of new grads and GPs dipping into it really gives me concern about the field though.

 

[charlestweed]

I didn’t expect everyone to suggest to do ortho! It seems like an awesome speciality. The programs pumping out tons of new grads and GPs dipping into it really gives me concern about the field though.

Zero debt. No kids. That's an easy decision to make. I would make the same decision as the OP even if I were in my 50s. Who doesn't want to work less (and worry less for having a less stressful job) and make more....or the same? We are humans and humans are inherently lazy. I am lazy ....and that's why I picked ortho over OMFS and other specialties.

 

[2TH MVR]

I didn’t expect everyone to suggest to do ortho! It seems like an awesome speciality. The programs pumping out tons of new grads and GPs dipping into it really gives me concern about the field though.

I've noticed this board goes back and forth on the topic of ortho. Ortho has been a popular punching bag lately. Plenty of negatives, but also alot of positives. Could say that about any profession. But EVERYTHING about the delivery of dentistry is changing. Not just ortho. Just seems like the retail Corps, other aligner business' , pay to play ortho private schools, etc .etc. have gone after ortho 1st. Ortho was an easy target. Patients want ortho services. They don't need it. They want it. Unlike a rct or S&RP, etc. etc.

The positives is that there are plenty of jobs. Much more than when I graduated in 1993. I came out of residency and essentially had to buy my 1st job. Now. PLENTY of ortho jobs. I work Corp now. From my perspective ..... there is such a huge demand for ortho services. Patients want ortho tx. Interestingly many of my patients have done their research on aligners and they KNOW that diy aligners and aligner tx not provided by specialists is not going to have the same outcome as conventional orthodontics. I get patients wanting aligners, but MOST want conventional braces.

OP has been an associate for a long time. If the OP needs a Corp job after ortho residency. There will be PLENTY of high paying Corp jobs available.

 

[CaliDDS1986]

I've noticed this board goes back and forth on the topic of ortho. Ortho has been a popular punching bag lately. Plenty of negatives, but also alot of positives. Could say that about any profession. But EVERYTHING about the delivery of dentistry is changing. Not just ortho. Just seems like the retail Corps, other aligner business' , pay to play ortho private schools, etc .etc. have gone after ortho 1st. Ortho was an easy target. Patients want ortho services. They don't need it. They want it. Unlike a rct or S&RP, etc. etc.

The positives is that there are plenty of jobs. Much more than when I graduated in 1993. I came out of residency and essentially had to buy my 1st job. Now. PLENTY of ortho jobs. I work Corp now. From my perspective ..... there is such a huge demand for ortho services. Patients want ortho tx. Interestingly many of my patients have done their research on aligners and they KNOW that diy aligners and aligner tx not provided by specialists is not going to have the same outcome as conventional orthodontics. I get patients wanting aligners, but MOST want conventional braces.

OP has been an associate for a long time. If the OP needs a Corp job after ortho residency. There will be PLENTY of high paying Corp jobs available.

Yes I’ve been an associate since I got out of dental school after a GPR. I’ve made decent money, paid off my debts, saved some, but I can tell any young dentist or dental student being a GP is tough, hard work. It is hard physically and mentally. It just wears on you after a while emotionally most of all. The better financial choice on paper is to buy a GP practice, but knowing all of the problems and unhappy patients that comes along with that I just don’t have it in my heart to buy a business that I don’t believe in. Ortho is just more gratifying on a personal and professional comparison. In my limited experience providing ortho as a GP (fixed and aligners) my real stresses come from not knowing what not to do, basically lack of experience.

 

[yappy]

Yes I’ve been an associate since I got out of dental school after a GPR. I’ve made decent money, paid off my debts, saved some, but I can tell any young dentist or dental student being a GP is tough, hard work. It is hard physically and mentally. It just wears on you after a while emotionally most of all. The better financial choice on paper is to buy a GP practice, but knowing all of the problems and unhappy patients that comes along with that I just don’t have it in my heart to buy a business that I don’t believe in. Ortho is just more gratifying on a personal and professional comparison. In my limited experience providing ortho as a GP (fixed and aligners) my real stresses come from not knowing what not to do, basically lack of experience.

Why were your GD patients unhappy? Maybe it's location, but most patients I treat are neutral to thankful for the services I offer.

 

[CaliDDS1986]

Why were your GD patients unhappy? Maybe it's location, but most patients I treat are neutral to thankful for the services I offer.

I mean it’s all semantics, don’t read too much into it. I’ve been at this gig for 10 years, I’ve seen and experienced most things GP. Most patients are neutral, some happy, few bad apples. No denying many patients are afraid and tense which does impact your own psyche at times.

Across the board in this country or any other GP work can be mind numbingly repetitive, boring, annoying (looking at you hygiene), tense, etc etc etc. I’ve met dentists from around the globe, and it’s pretty universal the lifestyle of ortho is MUCH better than that of a GP.

I once read an orthodontist write, “your worst day as an orthodontist will still be better than your best day as a GP.”

 

[charlestweed]

The positives is that there are plenty of jobs. Much more than when I graduated in 1993. I came out of residency and essentially had to buy my 1st job. Now. PLENTY of ortho jobs. I work Corp now. From my perspective ..... there is such a huge demand for ortho services. Patients want ortho tx. Interestingly many of my patients have done their research on aligners and they KNOW that diy aligners and aligner tx not provided by specialists is not going to have the same outcome as conventional orthodontics. I get patients wanting aligners, but MOST want conventional braces.

OP has been an associate for a long time. If the OP needs a Corp job after ortho residency. There will be PLENTY of high paying Corp jobs available.

I was the only one (out of the 6 residents in my class) who had full time job offers right after residency. I was the only one who moved back to CA, where there were a lot of corp offices. To create jobs for themselves, my co-residents had to open their own offices from scratches or purchased an existing practice because there weren’t any corp offices in their states. One of them later became the director at my program.

A couple of days ago, the manager of the corp, that I currently work part time for, called and asked me if I could talk to the new grad ortho, whom they recently interviewed, because they desperately needed an ortho to work at 2 of their offices. The new grad was reluctant to take the job offer because he has heard a lot of negative stories about working for corp offices. And he wanted to hear from someone like me who has been with the corp for a while to tell him more about this company. This shows that that there are plenty of jobs for new grad orthos if they are not picky. This is in 2022….and not 15-20 years ago. My company offered this new grad ortho $1400/day + $75 bonus for every new case that he starts.

 

[LFA20]

Can anyone chime in about endo? 😅. Is it easy to find a job at a corp and live near relatively major city?

I’m in a similar situation as OP.

 

[charlestweed]

The better financial choice on paper is to buy a GP practice, but knowing all of the problems and unhappy patients that comes along with that I just don’t have it in my heart to buy a business that I don’t believe in.

There’s no guarantee that you will make bank when you purchase an existing GP practice. When you take over an existing practice, you will still have to put in a lot of effort (and will be under a lot of stress) in order to retain existing patients and to keep them happy. As soon as you stop working hard for your practice, you lose your patients. When patients realize you don’t care about them, they’ll leave you. That’s the reason why a lot of older dentists sell their practices. They sell because they know their practices are losing patients but they don’t want to put in the effort because they are tired of working. They sell the practice before it hits the bottom.

The stressful part of practicing general dentistry is not from performing the procedures but from dealing with the unhappy patients who have unrealistic expectations. You have to deal with unhappy patients in ortho too but it’s far easier than general dentistry. I completely agree with the ortho who said the worst day as an ortho is still many times better than the best day as a GP.

Ortho is just more gratifying on a personal and professional comparison. In my limited experience providing ortho as a GP (fixed and aligners) my real stresses come from not knowing what not to do, basically lack of experience.

You will still be clueless after you finish your ortho residency. It doesn't matter where you go for your training. You’ll gain the experience from treating a lot of patients in the real world….from taking over cases that were started by other orthodontists…..from other orthodontists’ mistakes….and from your own mistakes. Don’t be disappointed when you find your first ortho job to be just as stressful as a GP job. During the first 6-12 months working as a new grad ortho, I found treating 60-70 patients a day very stressful. I was running behind the schedule all the time. The assistants were very frustrated with my lack of experience. Now, having 60-70 patients a day is considered to be a very light easy day for me.

 

[charlestweed]

Can anyone chime in about endo? 😅. Is it easy to find a job at a corp and live near relatively major city?

I’m in a similar situation as OP.

My former dental school roommate started dental school at 36. He got accepted to endo straight out of school and he was 42 when he got his endo certificate. Because of his age, he didn’t want to take the risk to set up his own ortho office. He commuted by train (to avoid the LA traffic) to work 2 days/week at an Endo office that accepted mostly HMO plans. He saw about 8-9 patients a day. At that time, the office still used film x ray and digital xray was still a new and expensive technology. He told me that he preferred the film xray because could take a short coffee break and stretch while the assistant took the progress film and developed it. He also traveled to work at a few other GP offices to fill his 5 days/wk work schedule. I don’t know what he made but I saw his house….it’s huge. While I was admiring his beautiful house, he smiled and told me : “Charlestweed, when you are at my age , you’ll have a much bigger house than this because you’re an ortho, you are a lot younger than me, and you picked the right profession early.” Before dental school, he had worked as an engineer for 10+ years. Like the OP, he had zero debt after he finished his endo training. I haven’t talked to him for a while. He probably retires now.

My wife’s best friend is an endo. I thought she was crazy when she did 2 years of AEGD. But when she got accepted to an endo program, I realized that it was a very smart move. She worked at the same endo office as my roommate, whom I mentioned above, right after graduation. To keep herself busy, she taught part time at USC and also traveled to work at a few other GP offices. She now has her own endo office.

Another roommate of mine also got accepted to endo straight out of school. He went to NYU endo. He stayed and worked in NY after his training because his wife was a dental student at NYU. She later specialized in endo as well. She wouldn’t have specialized if it wasn’t a good specialty.

A couple of years ago, I ran into former dental school classmate, who now lives in the same neighborhood with me. He had worked as a GP for 2 years and then specialized in endo. He has a very successful endo practice. His wife is a pharmacist but she doesn’t work anymore.

 

[D1Bound]

Does anyone know if OS holds true for the "worst day as an OS is still the best day as a GP" ?

 

[011110]

You’re crazy to go back to ortho. The only orthodontists on this board telling you to go back are each older. I bet no orthodontist that graduated post 2008 would recommend this, and probably would say it’s dumb.

 

[bracketbuster68]

You’re crazy to go back to ortho. The only orthodontists on this board telling you to go back are each older. I bet no orthodontist that graduated post 2008 would recommend this, and probably would say it’s dumb.

https://careers.aaoinfo.org/job/partnership-opportunity-35000000-base-as-1st-year-associate-bonus/44624286/

Yeah what a dummy /s

 

[gryffindor]

You’re crazy to go back to ortho. The only orthodontists on this board telling you to go back are each older. I bet no orthodontist that graduated post 2008 would recommend this, and probably would say it’s dumb.

Yeah I finished in 2009 and would go back. I don't even practice anymore and I still prefer that I am an orthodontist and not a GP. I also am not hung up on opportunity cost because we can always work and make more money. We never get back time however to do fun things we want.

 

[2TH MVR]

Yeah I finished in 2009 and would go back. I don't even practice anymore and I still prefer that I am an orthodontist and not a GP. I also am not hung up on opportunity cost because we can always work and make more money. We never get back time however to do fun things we want.

Agreed. The concept of lost opportunity costs is essentially gambling that you will live long enough to realize those gains. No one knows the future. What is permanently LOST is the Time. Or Regret for not doing something that you wanted to do.

 

[deleted1047421]

Sounds like a case of "Midlife Crazies" to me. That happens when you find out that life is just a job and a house payment.

I would suggest forgetting Ortho. school. Get a sports car and a younger women instead. (Just my 2 cents.)

Thanks for your contribution.

My thoughts on this and I know you may be joking:

I’ve met many colleagues in the dental field who are considered to be wildly successful in terms of annual income with respect to their field (whether gp or specialist).
Time and time again I see that their hard work to accumulate a high net worth has been devastated due to divorce usually from infidelity, wanting a younger woman etc.

 

[charlestweed]

Thanks for your contribution.

My thoughts on this and I know you may be joking:

I’ve met many colleagues in the dental field who are considered to be wildly successful in terms of annual income with respect to their field (whether gp or specialist).
Time and time again I see that their hard work to accumulate a high net worth has been devastated due to divorce usually from infidelity, wanting a younger woman etc.

Yeah, it is much worse than both parties realize. It’s the retirement killer. Before the divorce, the double income helped pay the common bills. After the divorce, the expenses for each divorcee double- 2 separate homes to mortgage (or rent), 2 separate utility bills to pay, 2 car payments to make etc. They are both older and will have less years to work to save for retirements.

More than 50% of the marriages end in divorce. It's a sad statistic.

 

[CaliDDS1986]

Seem to be getting more NO votes, almost a 50-50 split. If you voted no what is your reasoning?

 

[deleted1047421]

I’m not an orthodontist but I have performed many orthognathics. The collaboration between the orthodontist and surgeon is a unique bond.

I always joke with the orthodontists that they are the generals sitting in the tent and I’m the private on the front line.

Almost every orthognathic case I’ve done in the past was double jaw. The orthodontist and I would not just correct a malocclusion but also treat a facial asymmetry.

You will change many lives as an orthodontist. You can even work part time teaching. There will be plenty of work for you. Yes the generalists will cherry pick the easy cases from time to time and that’s okay. More power to them. It’s the harder cases that are interesting and challenging. Of course you will also get the easy cases too.

 

[LFA20]

Seem to be getting more NO votes, almost a 50-50 split. If you voted no what is your reasoning?

I know you have the money to pay cash but $300K is a lot of money to spend when you are already making 250K..

 

[Lemillion]

Read through the thread and everyone has made some great points! I am not ortho but pedo. I was thinking of some advice I could share and what popped into my head was a conversation with a more seasoned colleague. It basically boiled down to what you ultimately want out of life and your end goal. Use your goals and mission in life to guide you in your decisions. It will be easier going by that mentality versus being swayed from too many sources. If I listened to my parents vs. friends vs. mentors vs. etc....I probably would still be thinking about applying or attending pedo. For me, I realized my personality really clicked with the younger population (kids, adolescents) and I didn't like all the facets of general dentistry. Hope this helps.

 

[2TH MVR]

Seem to be getting more NO votes, almost a 50-50 split. If you voted no what is your reasoning?

I obviously voted yes, but here are some realistic negatives to consider.

1. You're paying 300K plus lost wages to enter a new profession.
2. You'll be a poor student again. Can't imagine that being fun.
3. Ortho has definitely lost some of it's monopoly on straightening teeth mostly due to aligners. This has led to any "Tom, Dick or Jane" doing aligner tx on their patients. Not to mention all those DIY aligner companies.
4. In saturated cities .... Ortho private practices are a challenge. Too many Corps with employee orthos. Too many GP and Pedo practices with hired orthos in their offices. Every dental office has a practice name that ends in "........................ and Orthodontics."
5. If you did have an Ortho private practice ... these ortho practices are not commanding decent money when you go to sell it. They are relatively cheap to purchase.

And once you are an Orthodontist.

6. The procedures can be repetitive.
7. You'll be seeing many patients in a given day. 60-100.
8. Most likely .... you'll be travelling to different offices for employment ..... if associate/employee.


But as I posted earlier. The POSITIVES more than outweigh the negatives. Especially if you are looking to be an employee orthodontist.

 

[charlestweed]

4. In saturated cities .... Ortho private practices are a challenge. Too many Corps with employee orthos. Too many GP and Pedo practices with hired orthos in their offices. Every dental office has a practice name that ends in "........................ and Orthodontics."

For many of my colleagues, this is a huge disadvantage when practice in saturated cities. For me, this is a plus because there are more associate jobs available. It’s good for someone like me who doesn’t have good business skills and doesn’t want to take the risk to open a practice right after graduation. I got F/T work right after graduation. It’s instant gratification.

And when I started my own practice from scratch, I could still work P/T for someone else to supplement my income. It's the same for my wife. She got F/T work because there were a lot of GP offices that hired in-house periodontists

6. The procedures can be repetitive.

I actually like doing the same things again and again. It’s easier to train the staff to perform these same repetitive procedures for me so I don’t have to work too hard. More predictable…less unforeseeable complications that cause me to stay late (miss lunch) to deal with them….less chance of making mistakes….less chance of getting a lawsuit….less stress….get to go home on time. Easy job, easy money.

8. Most likely .... you'll be travelling to different offices for employment ..... if associate/employee.

I don’t mind traveling to different offices. It still only takes 25-35 minutes to commute each way. I get to eat different food at different restaurants for lunch.

 

[LFA20]

For many of my colleagues, this is a huge disadvantage when practice in saturated cities. For me, this is a plus because there are more associate jobs available. It’s good for someone like me who doesn’t have good business skills and doesn’t want to take the risk to open a practice right after graduation. I got F/T work right after graduation. It’s instant gratification.

And when I started my own practice from scratch, I could still work P/T for someone else to supplement my income. It's the same for my wife. She got F/T work because there were a lot of GP offices that hired in-house periodontists

I actually like doing the same things again and again. It’s easier to train the staff to perform these same repetitive procedures for me so I don’t have to work too hard. More predictable…less unforeseeable complications that cause me to stay late (miss lunch) to deal with them….less chance of making mistakes….less chance of getting a lawsuit….less stress….get to go home on time. Easy job, easy money.


I don’t mind traveling to different offices. It still only takes 25-35 minutes to commute each way. I get to eat different food at different restaurants for lunch.

I agree. As a GP it's so difficult to be proficient at everything lol..

 

[charlestweed]

I agree. As a GP it's so difficult to be proficient at everything lol..

When I was younger (in my late 20s early 30s), I was more eager to learn new things. I wanted to be a good ortho so i could get good paying jobs that offered good bonuses. I wanted to make a lot of money. I worked 6 days/wk and saw 3-4 times more patients than the colleagues who were at the same age saw. I didn’t mind taking on difficult cases that other orthos didn't want to touch. That's how I gained the clicnical experience quickly. As I got older (I am 50 now), I became lazier. I grew tired of working and dealing with stress. Since all the debts were paid off, I have less motivation to work hard like when I was younger. Now I do mostly diagnosis and tx planning and let my chairside staff do the rest of the work for me. I try to simplify things (by giving out repetitive assignments for my staff to perform ) to avoid making errors. Ortho is an ideal job for older guys like me.

 

[cmjacks5]

Money aside will becoming an orthodontist make YOU happy and fulfilled? If your answer is a resounding yes then you know what you have to do. At the end of the day you’re going to make money as an orthodontist.

 

[GoDental101]

Money aside will becoming an orthodontist make YOU happy and fulfilled? If your answer is a resounding yes then you know what you have to do. At the end of the day you’re going to make money as an orthodontist.

This is the type of attitude that has in large part caused the student loan crisis that many Americans are now suffering the consequences of.

 

[P7898]

Money aside will becoming an orthodontist make YOU happy and fulfilled? If your answer is a resounding yes then you know what you have to do. At the end of the day you’re going to make money as an orthodontist.

I hate to say it but you are wrong. You always have to think about financials. If you are having to take out $700k+ in interest loans then is that really a smart idea? I like to sit around and weave baskets but I have a family I want to support.

 

[yappy]

I hate to say it but you are wrong. You always have to think about financials. If you are having to take out $700k+ in interest loans then is that really a smart idea? I like to sit around and weave baskets but I have a family I want to support.

I think the sentiment of “doing what you love” means not letting earning potential be the only deciding factor. Sometimes people can get stuck between two well paying careers. Obviously, debt is a big factor to consider.

 

[P7898]

I think the sentiment of “doing what you love” means not letting earning potential be the only deciding factor. Sometimes people can get stuck between two well paying careers. Obviously, debt is a big factor to consider.

Right and earning potential should not be the deciding factor to do what you love - the amount of debt it takes too get there should be heavily considered.

 

[cmjacks5]

This is the type of attitude that has in large part caused the student loan crisis that many Americans are now suffering the consequences of.

So?? That ain’t none of my business. The original post ask for advice I gave my two cents. At the end of the day he will do what is best for him.

 

[cmjacks5]

I hate to say it but you are wrong. You always have to think about financials. If you are having to take out $700k+ in interest loans then is that really a smart idea? I like to sit around and weave baskets but I have a family I want to support.

Yeah but if he wants to do ortho he’s going to do it. I’m just saying if it’s something he’s passionate about he will do it otherwise what is the point?

 

[cmjacks5]

I think the sentiment of “doing what you love” means not letting earning potential be the only deciding factor. Sometimes people can get stuck between two well paying careers. Obviously, debt is a big factor to consider.

That’s all I am saying. Literally.

 

[P7898]

Yeah but if he wants to do ortho he’s going to do it. I’m just saying if it’s something he’s passionate about he will do it otherwise what is the point?

Right. And if he or she wants to go into debt forever and live with that over there head and so on and so forth than so be it. Just giving sound financial advice. Sometimes to do what you want may not be the best thing financially than doing something you're content with.

Ideally we all want to do things we love but there is a degree of "does this make sense in my life". If OP has no kids or desire to have a family and wants to go $700k+ in a hole for something he should do it. However if he wants a wife OR if she wants a husband or whatever and kids then they need to consider how this debt will run the rest of their life.

All I am giving is sound financial advice. Of course do what you love and never work a day in your life but sometimes you need to consider more than finding purpose in life through a job.