Help! $87,000 in debt at Case Western vs $22,000 in debt at Rutgers?

[forests]

I've been really worrying about this, and I would immensely appreciate any input. Sorry for the long, rambling post. It essentially boils down to this:
1) Can we actually afford Case Western?
2) Is Case Western really worth the extra money in opportunities?
3) If I for some reason chose not to go to medical school, would being a Rutgers math major be worse off than a CWRU engineer?
4) Is biomedical engineering as good of a pre-med major as I've heard it is? I like the interdisciplinary aspect of it, but I primarily have a soft spot for math (for which Rutgers is better). Would I have trouble finding research opportunities as a math major?
5) Where would you go?
Please be honest. I need somebody to tell me the truth.

The long version:

My EFC was $43k/yr, but my parents can only afford about $20k/yr. Assuming the very worst (no internships, research money, or additional scholarships), I would be looking at the amount of debt in the title. I received significant merit aid from both ($22.5k/yr CWRU, #16k/yr RU)

My two choices:
1) Case Western Reserve University
EE or BME major
$87,000 in debt

2) Rutgers University, New Brunswick Honors College, Arts and Sciences, OOS
Math and Philosophy major
$22,000 in debt

I would go to Rutgers, but Case Western was my dream school and I'm scared of turning down that opportunity. I'm also scared that I'll change my mind and want to go into engineering, in which case I would lose my scholarship at Rutgers (due to an intra-college transfer).
I really like math, and wherever I go I would really like to work on signal analysis (medical imaging and such) as either a math or EE major. I was also really excited to work in Case Western's neural interfacing labs, and to take advantage of think[box] and their other engineering opportunities.

My parents are saints and assure me they are okay with taking on what debt I can't take on myself (I was given $5.5k/yr in unsubsidized loans, and enough plus loans to cover the rest). I don't know if I can, in good conscience, allow them to do this.

I'm also kind of worried that I might regret not majoring in engineering if I go to Rutgers. I would lose my scholarship if I transferred to the school of engineering. If I regret majoring in engineering at CWRU, their math department is not well ranked...

To be honest, I like Rutgers' location more, but CWRU feels like a better academic fit.
I can't easily take the time off to visit either school, but I wonder if I should.

A few more notes:
- Medical school is my highest priority.
- I got into the honors colleges at both my in-state universities, Oregon State and U of Oregon, but they cost about the same as Rutgers (with U of O actually costing more) and are a worse fit, so I am not really considering them. Am I wrong to dismiss them?
- Rutgers is #23 in math and #2 in philosophy. CWRU is #15 (#12 UG) in biomedical engineering and #100 or so in math. I can't find a CWRU philosophy ranking. (These are grad school rankings.)

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[Mad Jack]

Rutgers. After you exit the top 20, you're really just splitting hairs. 60k isn't worth splitting a hair over.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Do you want to be an engineer by any small possibility? Studying engineering is very specific and practical. You may feel out of place and unenthusiastic about course material since you will ultimately not be in the engineering field.

Also, I studied biochemistry in UG and I loved most of it. However, I seriously wish I could go back and major in philosophy and just take random science classes to avoid annoying laboratory classes designed for those going into industry and PhD programs. Do you really like philosophy? Or are you tacking it on to look impressive? If it is the former, you will always regret not studying it.

 

[efle]

It'd be Rutgers for me. Case really doesn't offer you anything worth $65,000

 

[ERDOC555]

Rutgers. After you exit the top 20, you're really just splitting hairs. 60k isn't worth splitting a hair over.

Basically this ^!

Your undergrad institution means literally nothing for getting an MD acceptance somewhere. If medicine is truly your goal, the go to the cheaper school! That's 60,000 less debt + interest when you finish residency.

This is a no-brainer. Save the money

 

[efle]

Your undergrad institution means literally nothing for getting an MD acceptance somewhere.

Only for state schools, private schools care about "undergrad selectivity." But, I doubt Case is going to impress anyone that much more than Rutgers.

 

[ERDOC555]

Only for state schools, private schools care about "undergrad selectivity." But, I doubt Case is going to impress anyone that much more than Rutgers.

Exactly, key word being "somewhere" in my post.

 

[efle]

Exactly, key word being "somewhere" in my post.

Something that matters to most schools on a typical applicant list shouldn't be called literally meaningless for getting an acceptance. Eg: "Failing classes has literally no permanent consequences for getting into a medical school" is not something you want to spread around just because DO schools do grade replacement.

Regardless this isn't Ivy League vs Rutgers, it's Case vs Rutgers. Case doesn't have $65k worth of special opportunities or reputation to offer. Unless there is a reason you'd be much happier at that campus, it's Case closed

 

[ERDOC555]

Something that matters to most schools on a typical applicant list shouldn't be called literally meaningless for getting an acceptance. Eg: "Failing classes has literally no permanent consequences for getting into a medical school" is not something you want to spread around just because DO schools do grade replacement.

Regardless this isn't Ivy League vs Rutgers, it's Case vs Rutgers. Case doesn't have $65k worth of special opportunities or reputation to offer. Unless there is a reason you'd be much happier at that campus, it's Case closed

Alright, you go me there. Literally is definitely the wrong word to have used, I should have said practically. All else equal, a 3.9/36 from State School X and a 3.9/36 from MIT will definitely be looked at differently and one will probably have an advantage in applying to top 10 schools.

However, the point I was trying to convey was that a good student will do well at any college and its better to save the money in most cases and still end up a doctor in a great field.

And yeah the difference between Case Western and Rutgers is infinitesimally small and I doubt most Adcoms or people on the street would think one is noticeably better than the other for undergrad.

 

[DrYoda]

Both are strong and well respected schools I would go with the significantly cheaper option. but that's just my opinion. If you want a personal comment I went to a run of the mill state school, still got into medical school and then got into a fairly well thought of residency program in what has become a competitive specialty (EM). I doubt Rutgers vs. Case is going to make or break your medical school options. The important thing is to perform well in college, not necessarily where you went.

 

[DrYoda]

Also why the difference in major between schools?

 

[forests]

Thank you so much, everyone. I had been leaning towards Case Western, and your replies came as a big shock to me. I suppose I had thought it was much more prestigious and difficult than Rutgers, so much so that the extra $65k and pursuing a different major would be worth it. I suppose I was wrong.

I do wonder why my EFC was twice what I could pay, though. Case was the cheapest private school I got into, though all of them claimed to have filled my full financial need. I already concluded no school was worth 120k+ in debt, but I wasn't sure about 80k+.

Also why the difference in major between schools?

My interests lie somewhere between EE and math (signals). I like math much more, but my reasoning was that EE would lead to better job prospects in the event that I do not go to medical school and would allow me to do more medically-relevant research. The added credit load of an EE degree at Case would basically keep me from pursuing my other interests, which are foreign languages and philosophy.

I did some more research, and it seems math is probably not that much worse than EE for a job or research opportunities. It seems I may have been wrong about that as well.

Do you want to be an engineer by any small possibility? Studying engineering is very specific and practical. You may feel out of place and unenthusiastic about course material since you will ultimately not be in the engineering field.

Also, I studied biochemistry in UG and I loved most of it. However, I seriously wish I could go back and major in philosophy and just take random science classes to avoid annoying laboratory classes designed for those going into industry and PhD programs. Do you really like philosophy? Or are you tacking it on to look impressive? If it is the former, you will always regret not studying it.

This post made me think for a long time. Thank you. I like signals enough that I think I can tolerate the circuit side of EE, but it is true that I would probably feel unhappy and claustrophobic.
I am passionate about what I have seen of philosophy thus far, but I honestly haven't seen that much and I've never taken a college course in it. I would likely not be able to pursue this passion at Case, the thought of which does make me sad.

 

[deleted688154]

If you're really set on Case VISIT before you make your deposit!!! This is going to be the next four years of your life and Case has *ahem* a very unique atmosphere.

It was my number one school and I was almost willing to pay the extra 30k it would cost over the course of four years compared to the other schools I got into until I visited and now I'm definitely not going


Rutgers is a great school and even if the standardized test score avg there is lower than Case, i would say that its "prestige" is about the same

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Here are your priorities.

1. Save money if you don't have mommy and daddy pushing you through everything.

2. Study what you want to learn.

3. An "atmosphere" that you like. This is much less important. You will find an atmosphere that you naturally fit in to no matter where you go. I go to a cheap state school with mostly commuters. Yet, within my close circle of friends there is an extremely intellectual commonality. Two are attending ivies for PhDs. YOU create your own atmosphere and destiny.


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[forests]

I felt that I should post an update for anyone who finds this post.
After a good amount of tossing and turning I submitted my deposit to Case. I had very specific reasons for doing so, and if anyone else is in a similar situation I would urge you to save the money. My decision had nothing to do with the relative prestige of the institutions.

Why I did this:

- I started studying freely-available engineering material to see if I would be fine with it, and I ended up liking it way more than I had thought. My initial views on BME were that I really wanted to be involved in the medical research, but that I would not like studying BME. After dabbling with MIT OCW, some open Stanford EE courses, and scipy/other stuff, I really wanted more of it. So much so, that I'm dropping some of my summer plans so that I can continue MIT OCW's Unified Engineering, take DiffEq & Linear Algebra at a community college, and do some stuff on Rosalind.io.

- I talked to my family about finances again. My parents looked at their budget and freed up some more money. Between my mom getting a job, me working hard over summers at internships and labs, and applying for more scholarships later, my debt should be far less than $87,000.

- I could not get excited about the medical research at Rutgers the way I did about CWRU's. There was simply no comparison.

- Despite the cost difference, I did not get that same scholarship to Rutgers Engineering. I was planning to take electives to try to get close to what I wanted to do in BME, but I charted it out and realized it was more or less impossible.

- CWRU has two wonderful medical schools (CWRU SOM and CCLCM), and is next to the Cleveland clinic. I cannot imagine staying in New Jersey for my entire medical education, but doing so is an extremely enticing possibility in Cleveland (if I end up being so privileged as to be accepted into those programs.)

- Paulidosauriaa made a good point about CWRU's atmosphere. I have not visited Case, but I have visited similar schools and got a pleasant vibe. I also joined CWRU's Facebook group and have already made some friends. I'm rather nerdy, and if anything I might be unhappy at Rutgers.

In short, even if I do end up in more debt from CWRU, I think that I would always regret not taking advantage of that opportunity. Thank you, SDN, for giving me some outside feedback. Though it's usually better to go to the cheaper school, in this Case I felt I should make the opposite decision, and go where I would be happiest. Feel free to critique my reasoning for the next unfortunate soul considering CWRU, but I feel that this is the right decision for me.

 

[grapp]

Sounds like a tough decision.

 

[Technology]

I am in a very similar situation as well, but recently realized that I want to attend a college in California instead of the Northeast. Like you, I have an OOS state school and an expensive private school to choose from.

I will likely choose the less inexpensive OOS state school because of financial reasons, and possibly transfer after two years (if I get in) to a LAC in California or UC school. By the time I transfer, I will not be in any debt assuming I continue to work my part-time job.

If you really love Case Western, you can transfer after two years and receive your degree from there, even though (as said above) medical schools will not care whether you graduate from Rutgers or Case Western. Note: you may have to spend an extra semester at the school you transfer to, since some credits may not transfer over.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[forests]

There was a happy ending. I'm not taking out any loans this fall, and I'm going to Case.
My parents ended up making some financial adjustments and are working more (my mom got a job, and my dad is doing overtime), so they are now able to cover the cost. I have a merit scholarship from Case instead of a grant so I don't need to worry about my financial aid going down.

 

[Kurk]

I'm going to have the same exact problem when I apply to Case as well. I might just decide to transfer in after two years at a cheaper school.

 

[forests]

I'm going to have the same exact problem when I apply to Case as well. I might just decide to transfer in after two years at a cheaper school.

Case actually gave me the best financial aid of any private school I was accepted to. It was just enough for me to go to Case with little to no debt based on my family's earning potential, it seems. Once my parents cut costs and my mom got a job, it was right on the money.
That said, private schools are expensive in general, and in my decision it really came down to whether I wanted to do biomedical engineering or not. I'm sure you'll do fine wherever you go.