Having to PAY to volunteer...?

[Doctoscope]

The COPE Health Scholars program has a "tuition" of $225 (which goes up to $500 if you want a 3-month program), plus a $20 application fee, AND you need to bring in your own CPR training certificate, which is like another 50-60 bucks.

Is this normal?? Thought about just paying the money since you get like 200-300 hours, but it just feels like I'm getting taken advantage of... it looks like it's just glorified hospital volunteering, and the greedy administrators are just looking for free (if you can even call it that since you need to pay THEM) CNA labor. Am I just being cheap? Thoughts on the program?

The link is here: Overview - COPE Health Scholars

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[deleted688779]

Stanford charges $6,500 for desperate premeds to shadow and scribe without pay. Parking not provided. $95 application fee.

I don't agree with these practices and my pride can't take orgs taking advantage of desperate premeds, therefore I would take my time elsewhere. However, if this is truly something you want to do and have no other means to do the same things, then go for it.

 

[deleted994889]

The COPE Health Scholars program has a "tuition" of $225 (which goes up to $500 if you want a 3-month program), plus a $20 application fee, AND you need to bring in your own CPR training certificate, which is like another 50-60 bucks.

Is this normal?? Thought about just paying the money since you get like 200-300 hours, but it just feels like I'm getting taken advantage of... it looks like it's just glorified hospital volunteering, and the greedy administrators are just looking for free (if you can even call it that since you need to pay THEM) CNA labor. Am I just being cheap? Thoughts on the program?

The link is here: Overview - COPE Health Scholars

I volunteered at a hospital that had Health Scholars. It seemed they had more hands-on and direct patient care than I was allowed. I wanted to apply, but it didn't work with my schedule.

 

[sparkysparkyboomman]

I’m far from an expert, but if you have to pay and it seems sketchy, you’re better off spending your time (and money) elsewhere.

 

[AMCASTuesdays]

The COPE Health Scholars program has a "tuition" of $225 (which goes up to $500 if you want a 3-month program), plus a $20 application fee, AND you need to bring in your own CPR training certificate, which is like another 50-60 bucks.

Is this normal?? Thought about just paying the money since you get like 200-300 hours, but it just feels like I'm getting taken advantage of... it looks like it's just glorified hospital volunteering, and the greedy administrators are just looking for free (if you can even call it that since you need to pay THEM) CNA labor. Am I just being cheap? Thoughts on the program?

The link is here: Overview - COPE Health Scholars

Personally, I wouldn't do this. Volunteering already comes at a cost on the part of the volunteer- you give your time to help others or a cause. I agree that the fact that they have you pay makes it seem like you're being taken advantage of. From a cursory look at the website, I think you can get most of these experiences just with some persistence, and a few nicely worded emails. Maybe separately and not in a neat bundle, but you can definitely get them without COPE.

On a softer note, imo Volunteering is something you do just because you can and because it's a good thing to do. Paying for a volunteer position implies that you're buying into something for the prestige and not necessarily just bc its a selfless thing to do.

 

[Cornfed101]

Stanford charges $6,500 for desperate premeds to shadow and scribe without pay. Parking not provided. $95 application fee.

This just sounds like stateside medical voluntourism. What a scam. This makes me furious.

 

[Osminog]

Only a sucker would pay “tuition” just to volunteer. Invest $1500 into a six-week Red Cross CNA training course, and then get paid $15/hour for doing the same thing you’d be doing at that predatory program.

 

[deleted994889]

My impression is that the COPE program is more of an internship with better involvement than volunteering, at least at my hospital. You get to rotate through the hospital and provide some (albeit minor) patient care that volunteers can't; I think there's an educational portion as well. It's a neat bundle for someone who wants to get a variety of healthcare experience in a relatively short amount of time. I think $225 isn't too much for 9 to 15 months (the 3 month program is 5 days a week btw). I can see how other programs might be scammy though.

 

[Goro]

I’m far from an expert, but if you have to pay and it seems sketchy, you’re better off spending your time (and money) elsewhere.

This.
/thread

 

[deleted688779]

This just sounds like stateside medical voluntourism. What a scam. This makes me furious.

Bbbbbbbut it’s Stanford!!!!!!! My friends will finally think I’m smart!! /s

 

[Cornfed101]

Bbbbbbbut it’s Stanford!!!!!!! My friends will finally think I’m smart!! /s

Didn't Elizabeth Holmes go to Standford? That will do her a lot of good in prison...

 

[caterwaiter]

Stanford probably charges for it because the premeds in and around the area (or, more likely, their parents) can afford to buy the best "premed experiences" for them.

 

[theKingLT]

I don't like this anymore than the rest of the posters but it's understandable that they have it in pre-med saturated areas. You're paying for clinical exposure, not volunteering. Every city in the country has soup kitchens and similar places where you can volunteer to help people in need, but in some areas patient contact is hard to come by, even with base level certs such as CNA, EMT, etc. If demand exceeds supply they damn sure can sell it and get plenty of applicants.

 

[Lawpy]

Stanford charges $6,500 for desperate premeds to shadow and scribe without pay. Parking not provided. $95 application fee.

I don't agree with these practices and my pride can't take orgs taking advantage of desperate premeds, therefore I would take my time elsewhere. However, if this is truly something you want to do and have no other means to do the same things, then go for it.

Stanford probably charges for it because the premeds in and around the area (or, more likely, their parents) can afford to buy the best "premed experiences" for them.

Given the major premed obsessions with prestige, it makes sense for the schools to profit handsomely out of them. Still a bit predatory though

 

[caterwaiter]

but in some areas patient contact is hard to come by, even with base level certs such as CNA, EMT, etc. If demand exceeds supply they damn sure can sell it and get plenty of applicants.

Still a bit predatory though

In my experience, both correct.

 

[deleted962973]

Stanford charges $6,500 for desperate premeds to shadow and scribe without pay. Parking not provided. $95 application fee.

I don't agree with these practices and my pride can't take orgs taking advantage of desperate premeds, therefore I would take my time elsewhere. However, if this is truly something you want to do and have no other means to do the same things, then go for it.

That’s horrendous. I’m sure tons of people go for it too, just to have Stanford somewhere on their resume. Sad that such a good school is so unethical

 

[Davidfromcali]

This the program associated with HOAG hospital? I’ve heard it’s pretty popular but I never knew you had to pay to volunteer at their hospitals....talk about exploitation

 

[Listle]

I did COPEs program. They charge mostly because of the training they have to provide to you. That said you will get far more clinical exposure in one of its programs than routine volunteering (from my experience).

If the nurses trust you, they will let you do a lot. I assisted delivering babies, feeding nicu preemies and helping care for them. In the ER I helped PAs with irrigating large lacerations and held pressure on bleeders that came in. If you want to get clinical exposure as a job the CNA or scribing or phlebotomy may be better but if you are working full time (with decent pay) and need clinical exposure my experience is that this program is what you make of it and whether you work and make an effort to be trusted and competent.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

The COPE Health Scholars program has a "tuition" of $225 (which goes up to $500 if you want a 3-month program), plus a $20 application fee, AND you need to bring in your own CPR training certificate, which is like another 50-60 bucks.

Is this normal?? Thought about just paying the money since you get like 200-300 hours, but it just feels like I'm getting taken advantage of... it looks like it's just glorified hospital volunteering, and the greedy administrators are just looking for free (if you can even call it that since you need to pay THEM) CNA labor. Am I just being cheap? Thoughts on the program?

The link is here: Overview - COPE Health Scholars

May be $225 is for administrative costs?

 

[deleted688779]

Stanford probably charges for it because the premeds in and around the area (or, more likely, their parents) can afford to buy the best "premed experiences" for them.

You're definitely right, not gonna argue with that. For people with the cash, it is a small price to pay to be able to say "I work/train at Stanford" in front of college tech bro friends who work at Facebook, Google, Apple, drive Teslas, go to expensive clubs, and make six figures out of college.

But in my experience, this motivation is strong even among people without that much money (or maybe it is a Bay Area thing). I know a handful of people from my high school who would have, have been, or are part of/applied to that program or similar programs. The socioeconomic statuses of most of the people in my area are far different from what is found at Stanford/Palo Alto. I know a guy who took a part-time job just to finance that program that allows him to say "I work at Stanford"

 

[RTC19]

I did COPEs program. They charge mostly because of the training they have to provide to you. That said you will get far more clinical exposure in one of its programs than routine volunteering (from my experience).

If the nurses trust you, they will let you do a lot. I assisted delivering babies, feeding nicu preemies and helping care for them. In the ER I helped PAs with irrigating large lacerations and held pressure on bleeders that came in. If you want to get clinical exposure as a job the CNA or scribing or phlebotomy may be better but if you are working full time (with decent pay) and need clinical exposure my experience is that this program is what you make of it and whether you work and make an effort to be trusted and competent.

I think this is an extra sign that this program is sketchy. I am a mom and wouldn't want a minimally trained person anywhere near my baby. I am not a confrontational person by any stretch of the imagination but there would be heck to pay if I found out this was happening to my preemie or my baby in the process if being born.

 

[caterwaiter]

You're definitely right, not gonna argue with that. For people with the cash, it is a small price to pay to be able to say "I work/train at Stanford" in front of college tech bro friends who work at Facebook, Google, Apple, drive Teslas, go to expensive clubs, and make six figures out of college.

But in my experience, this motivation is strong even among people without that much money (or maybe it is a Bay Area thing). I know a handful of people from my high school who would have, have been, or are part of/applied to that program or similar programs. The socioeconomic statuses of most of the people in my area are far different from what is found at Stanford/Palo Alto. I know a guy who took a part-time job just to finance that program that allows him to say "I work at Stanford"

There's the name prestige aspect of it, for sure. The thing that concerns me more is that is looks like one more example to add to the VERY long list of advantages that higher SES applicants have over lower SES applicants. Having the time available to volunteer (instead of work) is a privilege in itself.....and then there's this other level of top-notch experiences that will undoubtedly look great on your app....if you're willing and able to pay for them.

 

[AMCASTuesdays]

I did COPEs program. They charge mostly because of the training they have to provide to you. That said you will get far more clinical exposure in one of its programs than routine volunteering (from my experience).

If the nurses trust you, they will let you do a lot. I assisted delivering babies, feeding nicu preemies and helping care for them. In the ER I helped PAs with irrigating large lacerations and held pressure on bleeders that came in. If you want to get clinical exposure as a job the CNA or scribing or phlebotomy may be better but if you are working full time (with decent pay) and need clinical exposure my experience is that this program is what you make of it and whether you work and make an effort to be trusted and competent.

Isnt it strongly communicated by the AAMC that premeds shouldn't be participating in procedures in any capacity during shadowing/ volunteering? Obviously if you’re a licensed PA, CNA, etc thats a diff thing but that doesnt seem like that’s what this is. I would steer clear even moreso. Wouldn't want an adcom to look at this negatively

 

[Listle]

I think this is an extra sign that this program is sketchy. I am a mom and wouldn't want a minimally trained person anywhere near my baby. I am not a confrontational person by any stretch of the imagination but there would be heck to pay if I found out this was happening to my preemie or my baby in the process if being born.

Parents give consent before any babies are touched, similarly with patients and procedures. I did not mean or imply I physically delivered baby’s. Assist, as in, I helped coordinate contractions until the physician arrived for the important part and once the baby was out, cleaned off the fun gunk and help wrap the baby to present to the mother, or alternatively help prepare the nicu incubator and manual respiration if a transfer is necessary.

They train you for many of these things which is included in the cost of tuition (as well as in CPR classes) and you are given a certificate from UCLAs fielding school of health afterwards. It’s not sketchy or illegitimate. Wrote about these experiences in my personal statement and activities section, I have 5 II so it’s clearly not a red flag. Additionally, they won’t let you do things you aren’t ready for or don’t trust you with.

It’s not like I started off in the nicu with no clinical exposure and they handed me a 32 week preemie and said “help with this”

 

[Cornfed101]

It’s not like I started off in the nicu with no clinical exposure and they handed me a 32 week preemie and said “help with this”

That's basically how other clinical jobs are... I work in an ophthalmology clinic and it's basically like "hey stick this thing in the person's eye. They will be fine. You will be fine." And it's true.

Read Complications by Atul Gawande...

 

[Listle]

That's basically how other clinical jobs are... I work in an ophthalmology clinic and it's basically like "hey stick this thing in the person's eye. They will be fine. You will be fine." And it's true.

Read Complications by Atul Gawande...

I have, fantastic book! Highly recommend.

 

[deleted994889]

I did COPEs program. They charge mostly because of the training they have to provide to you. That said you will get far more clinical exposure in one of its programs than routine volunteering (from my experience).

If the nurses trust you, they will let you do a lot. I assisted delivering babies, feeding nicu preemies and helping care for them. In the ER I helped PAs with irrigating large lacerations and held pressure on bleeders that came in. If you want to get clinical exposure as a job the CNA or scribing or phlebotomy may be better but if you are working full time (with decent pay) and need clinical exposure my experience is that this program is what you make of it and whether you work and make an effort to be trusted and competent.

For contrast, as a volunteer in the ER, I could only clean rooms, restock carts and rooms, escort patients in and out, messenger, and get patients blankets and food (with nurse approval). Like I said, the COPE program is more of an internship than volunteering (you can actually do both at the same hospital).