Haven't worn a suit at interviews

[45408]

and my skin is fish-belly white

Gee, when you put it like that...

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[Winged Scapula]

Also, where the heck are you people shopping that its so difficult/expensive to find suits? I bought two Calvin Klein suits (pants for me as I personally dislike skirt suits but that's because I don't like stockings and my skin is fish-belly white) for $80 each at Ross & Burlington Coat Factory - NOT polyester.

I was wondering the same thing myself.

Macy's and Dillards often have their women's suits on sale for $99-$200 and that includes some Calvin Klein, Anne Klein, Tahari, etc. I look at them quite frequently and know they have petites as well.

 

[Winged Scapula]

In the US. There are less conservative areas of the world, and there are less conservative professions.

I'm not sure how that's relevant:

1) this is a US forum
2) most members are in the US
3) we are talking about medicine, a conservative profession

I don't really care much what accountants in Minsk wear for their job interviews.

 

[howelljolly]

In the US. There are less conservative areas of the world, and there are less conservative professions.

I can count numerous other reasons. But I bet most ppl probably can't, won't or are just put off by non-adherence to conformity, whether or not that is the reason in itself. Kinda frustrating.


I get a rock hard one whenever I see a really elegant woman in a dress. Are you saying that I am secretly gay? OMG!


That's kinda cool.

Now THAT is professional.

No. You're wrong. That isn't the point.

Professional attire is defended the most by those ppl who like to dress professionally. Professionalism is a cheap excuse to avoid seeing yourself as vain, and coercing co-workers to adhere to the same rules of the costume party. Women are drawn to men who dress in uniforms. It is about looks for the sake of looks sex, and role play (which is what some ppl call professionalism).

Everybody lies.

Are you serious?

Professional attire is defended by people who dont have an axe to grind, and who dont feel the need to "express themselves", "show their individuality", and who got enough hugs from daddy when they were small.

Do you mean professionalism, or professional attire? Either way, what you're saying sounds pretty flashy and Palin-like.... you didnt actually say anything. "Avoid seeing yourself as vain"...what does that mean? "adhere to the same rules"... well duh.... Housestaff, the Army, the FDNY, all have rules to adhere to. So what were you saying?

 

[howelljolly]

To stir the pot even more... I haven't been wearing suits. I strongly dislike them. I think women's suits are an artificial attempt to masculinize us.

BUT the major caveat is that what I have been wearing most certainly is in that amorphous category of 'professional.'

What do I wear? [straight men feel free to skip over this paragraph as it will probably make you want to go outside and toss the ball around a bit] When I interviewed for medical school, I wore a ladies' tuxedo from a British design house with a fedora. Now I wear separates with color, print, texture, etc that are *never* revealing, tight, cheap, uncomfortable, outre, or casual. I have, for example, beautiful wool slacks from Gucci with a gorgeous sheen; a rich gold cowl-neck silk blouse from an NYC boutique; and a muted print silk-wool jacket from Escada. The look is formal, feminine, subtle, but emphatically NOT a suit. It *is* self-expression, because I love fashion and follow it closely, but not in confrontational "look at me I'm so different" kind of way. Or a label-*****-conspicuous-consumption kind of way with nasty CCs and LVs plastered all over everything.

It's always been commented upon favorably, when commented upon at all. Most people glide their eyes right over me as I think the message is well-conveyed that I'm paying the program due respect with my attire. You don't need a polyester pantsuit from the Dress Barn to look the part of a doctor.

The most grievous fashion error I've noted is women who wear shoes in which they can't walk. IMHO if you can't go on a hospital tour or climb a flight of steps in your shoes, you quite frankly look ******ed.

I read it anyway.
Guys have rules too you know. One of them is - nothing with a sheen. I dont really know what my point is, but its something along the lines of... Interview attire for men (as per the books out there that guide one through the Match) is not the same as Professional attire for men. Interview attire is more restricted - things like no sheen, no pinstripes...

Hell, no AFTERSHAVE!

Ive been going on interviews with my face on fire, and wanting to claw it off because aftershave lotion is not appropriate for interviews.

 

[RegularNihilist]

I'm not sure how that's relevant:

1) this is a US forum
2) most members are in the US
3) we are talking about medicine, a conservative profession

I don't really care much what accountants in Minsk wear for their job interviews.

It is relevant as to whether there is an axiom that doctors must play dress up in order to practice medicine, or whether this is a result of conformity of the US population, or a subset of it, which may change over time.

Now THAT is professional.

Please enlighten me, how normal, daily cycles of hormonal influence has anything to do with professionalism. That is just sexism, what you just spat out. Accepted sexism on SDN as bigotry is OK, as long as it goes in favor of feminism, and is against men in some way.

Professional attire is defended by people who dont have an axe to grind, and who dont feel the need to "express themselves", "show their individuality", and who got enough hugs from daddy when they were small.

Who said anything about having axes to grind? I was talking about preferences.

Do you mean professionalism, or professional attire?

I have the impression, lack of one thing seems to exclude the other, in simple, conservative minds.

"Avoid seeing yourself as vain"...what does that mean?

It is a rationalization. Look up the word rationalization, e.g on wikipedia. Human ppl lie, to avoid cognitive dissonance. Like: "I don't wear a tie, because I am a vain, stiff upper lip snob, I wear a tie because I have to be professional, whatever that means.

Housestaff, the Army, the FDNY, all have rules to adhere to. So what were you saying?

I said what I was saying. That it obviously is such a problem for certain ppl to simply wear what they'd like to wear, without coercing other colleagues to do the same. That discussion strategy of playing stupid deliberately, is extremely lame and not very flattering.

 

[howelljolly]

I get a rock hard one whenever I see a really elegant woman in a dress. Are you saying that I am secretly gay? OMG!

Now THAT is professional.

Please enlighten me, how normal, daily cycles of hormonal influence has anything to do with professionalism. That is just sexism, what you just spat out. Accepted sexism on SDN as bigotry is OK, as long as it goes in favor of feminism, and is against men in some way.

In case you didnt know, I was being sarcastic. Again, I find it difficult to follow you.

Maybe I really dont understand you, however, I wouldnt say what you typed (in bold) outside of happy our, with my drinking buddies..... and probably not even then.

 

[ResidentMD]

The directions that some threads take on SDN never cease to amaze me. I still cannot believe I log into SDN everyday and this thread is the most active one on the ERAS forum. Hail the OP!

 

[LucidSplash]

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Personal Note to Productive Forum Participants: Before responding to argumentative or defensive posts by other users, please consider that there are three main options for classifying the majority of these users: trolls, DSM-IV criteria for Narcissitic or Anti-Social traits/personality disorder, or some combination thereof. For the sake of keeping threads on track (and keeping the rest of us sane), please review the DSM material as appropriate, including the general futility of cognitive-behavioral or psychoanalytic therapy in these conditions, and remember to choose your battles wisely. Thank you.
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[MrBurns10]

I read it anyway.
Guys have rules too you know. One of them is - nothing with a sheen. I dont really know what my point is, but its something along the lines of... Interview attire for men (as per the books out there that guide one through the Match) is not the same as Professional attire for men. Interview attire is more restricted - things like no sheen, no pinstripes...

Hell, no AFTERSHAVE!

Ive been going on interviews with my face on fire, and wanting to claw it off because aftershave lotion is not appropriate for interviews.

Huh. I usually assume people on here are men (as most people assume I am, incorrectly), but I always thought you were a woman. Years of understanding come crashing down!

 

[RegularNihilist]

*********************************
Personal Note to Productive Forum Participants

Do they exist?

: Before responding to argumentative or defensive posts by other users, please consider that there are three main options for classifying the majority of these users: trolls, DSM-IV criteria for Narcissitic or Anti-Social traits/personality disorder, or some combination thereof.

...Furthermore, before choosing to obey the manipulative directions given by online psychologists, please note that posters featuring narcissistic and antisocial traits, combined with the higher prevalence of avoidant traits and obsessive-compulsive behavior, might also have some valid points in their narcissistic and antisocial arguments. Even though resorting to labelling-fallacies might seem convenient at times.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

I read it anyway.
Guys have rules too you know. One of them is - nothing with a sheen. I dont really know what my point is, but its something along the lines of... Interview attire for men (as per the books out there that guide one through the Match) is not the same as Professional attire for men. Interview attire is more restricted - things like no sheen, no pinstripes...

Hell, no AFTERSHAVE!

Ive been going on interviews with my face on fire, and wanting to claw it off because aftershave lotion is not appropriate for interviews.

Geez, don't they make unscented aftershaves? I don't use them in general, but if that's bad, I'd probably use at least a little. You just don't want anything overpowering. If you're scratching too much, you'll end up looking like this guy:

 

[mcl]

Today I had my first ever non-suit-wearing applicant. Surprisingly, neither the PD nor chair noted it or gave her a lower score because of it. Another (younger) faculty member did comment in a negative way, calling it "too casual" and "inappropriate." Pretty much exactly the opposite of what I expected to happen.

 

[oompa loompa]

Today I had my first ever non-suit-wearing applicant. Surprisingly, neither the PD nor chair noted it or gave her a lower score because of it. Another (younger) faculty member did comment in a negative way, calling it "too casual" and "inappropriate." Pretty much exactly the opposite of what I expected to happen.

in my experience, older and more experienced faculty can be more lenient and easier on applicants. I felt more at ease with my older faculty during both med school and residency interviews. I'm not sure what it is--mellowing out with age? But maybe that was just a coincidence.

 

[unhigenyx]

I am sure SDNers have hammered it to you already, IMHO, a practical reason to wear suit - As an applicant, YOU know that you don't wear a suit to any of your interviews. Unless you make a point to mention this to each PD about this, they wouldn't know that not wearing a suit is your 'style'. It is easy for them to guess that you have chosen to take them lightly. Unless you are a Nobel laureate or something, it is likely that there will be one with your qualifications who chose to wear a suit. Good luck,

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Hmm, maybe I'm a bad shopper, but yeah, I had a ridiculously hard time finding a suit and checked out all the stores you guys mentioned. I also live in a smaller city, and am a non-size 0 petite (Ann Taylor didn't have suit jackets above size 2 in their petite section). And I still feel like there are fewer choices than there were several years ago, but I guess that feeling is probably subjective.

So I think from this thread, we can conclude that you probably should wear a suit and skip danskos. Some of the other rules are surprising to me, though. For example, I've never heard that pinstripes weren't OK for either men or women. I've seen lots of guys with pinstripes on the trail, and I'm sure it's a non-issue for them (along with the shoes without laces ).

 

[veenut]

After shave isn't appropriate? Really? That sounds fairly ridiculous. Honestly, unless it's incredibly strong smelling, why would they know/care?

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Hmm, maybe I'm a bad shopper, but yeah, I had a ridiculously hard time finding a suit and checked out all the stores you guys mentioned. I also live in a smaller city, and am a non-size 0 petite (Ann Taylor didn't have suit jackets above size 2 in their petite section). And I still feel like there are fewer choices than there were several years ago, but I guess that feeling is probably subjective.

So I think from this thread, we can conclude that you probably should wear a suit and skip danskos. Some of the other rules are surprising to me, though. For example, I've never heard that pinstripes weren't OK for either men or women. I've seen lots of guys with pinstripes on the trail, and I'm sure it's a non-issue for them (along with the shoes without laces ).

I'd never heard the pinstripes rule, either. Both my suits have pinstripes, and I would say that at least 50% of guys have had pinstripes. When I got my suits, I explicitly told the salesman that I was looking for interview suits, and both of these were ones he recommended, and I presume that he knows something about interview etiquette. We're not talking Yankees pinstripes thick, but they are there.

 

[howelljolly]

Yeah there's pinstripes and then there's pinstripes.

The thin ones are fine, and professional. They tend to be what makes a suit professional rather than formal - A totally solid suit is more formal, like for a wedding or funeral.

the bright powder blue against navy stripes (think Dr 90210) are not for interviews.

 

[Winged Scapula]

After shave isn't appropriate? Really? That sounds fairly ridiculous. Honestly, unless it's incredibly strong smelling, why would they know/care?

Its a habit you should get in to - not wearing aftershave. Many patients are very sensitive to it, even allergic, as would be your co-workers in close quarters. We ask our employees not to wear it.

Hmm, maybe I'm a bad shopper, but yeah, I had a ridiculously hard time finding a suit and checked out all the stores you guys mentioned. I also live in a smaller city, and am a non-size 0 petite (Ann Taylor didn't have suit jackets above size 2 in their petite section). And I still feel like there are fewer choices than there were several years ago, but I guess that feeling is probably subjective.

It can be more difficult in a smaller community. I know the stores carry different styles dependent on the local community - ie, the Macys in Manhattan will carry more suits than the one in Tucson (a more laidback community). If you know what size you wear, have you thought about buying on-line? Admittedly, a size 0 is pretty small outside of LA so many stores probably would not stock anything below a 2 routinely.

So I think from this thread, we can conclude that you probably should wear a suit and skip danskos. Some of the other rules are surprising to me, though. For example, I've never heard that pinstripes weren't OK for either men or women. I've seen lots of guys with pinstripes on the trail, and I'm sure it's a non-issue for them (along with the shoes without laces ).

Yeah there's pinstripes and then there's pinstripes.

The thin ones are fine, and professional. They tend to be what makes a suit professional rather than formal - A totally solid suit is more formal, like for a wedding or funeral.

the bright powder blue against navy stripes (think Dr 90210) are not for interviews.

I think a fine pinstripe is fine...I have several suits with such and they didn't prevent me from getting a job (I think). Robert Rey should not be looked too for fashion advice.

 

[veenut]

Its a habit you should get in to - not wearing aftershave. Many patients are very sensitive to it, even allergic, as would be your co-workers in close quarters. We ask our employees not to wear it.

Given the odors I am exposed to on a daily basis, I'd have to say many patients are allergic to soap.

I've honestly never heard any comments about aftershave in the workplace. I can see how dousing yourself in cologne or aftershave is unprofessional but I fail to see how a quick splash (which btw feels quite nice after shaving) would be considered offensive

 

[howelljolly]

Its a habit you should get in to - not wearing aftershave. Many patients are very sensitive to it, even allergic, as would be your co-workers in close quarters. We ask our employees not to wear it.

I dont think its a habit I really want to get into. Like veenut said, some patients are sensitive to soap. It's really uncomfortable for me not to use it, and i dont suppose that it's going to get much better over time. And since I use the $3 drugstore stuff, I'm pretty sure the scent dissipates in an hour or less anyway.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I dont think its a habit I really want to get into. Like veenut said, some patients are sensitive to soap. It's really uncomfortable for me not to use it, and i dont suppose that it's going to get much better over time. And since I use the $3 drugstore stuff, I'm pretty sure the scent dissipates in an hour or less anyway.

Do they sell unscented aftershave? If not, how exactly is aftershave different from lotion? You can get good, unscented facial lotions that I think would do the trick. Either way, I doubt a light application of aftershave is a bad thing because it's probably no different than using scented soap or lotion.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Given the odors I am exposed to on a daily basis, I'd have to say many patients are allergic to soap.

I've honestly never heard any comments about aftershave in the workplace. I can see how dousing yourself in cologne or aftershave is unprofessional but I fail to see how a quick splash (which btw feels quite nice after shaving) would be considered offensive

I don't think anyone said it was offensive. My point was that many workplaces do ban scented fragrances. Do you find your aftershave masks the odors of patients? Because if it did, it would have to be pretty strong. I find that I have to use oil of mint or clove to cover some of the stench.

I dont think its a habit I really want to get into. Like veenut said, some patients are sensitive to soap. It's really uncomfortable for me not to use it, and i dont suppose that it's going to get much better over time. And since I use the $3 drugstore stuff, I'm pretty sure the scent dissipates in an hour or less anyway.

You may find that you don't smell the scent but others might. Its no skin off my nose I just recognize that patients can be bothered by it. Then again, we have an immunocompromised patient load often on chemo, with nausea, so we try and eliminate odors which might bother them.

 

[howelljolly]

I don't think anyone said it was offensive. My point was that many workplaces do ban scented fragrances. Do you find your aftershave masks the odors of patients? Because if it did, it would have to be pretty strong. I find that I have to use oil of mint or clove to cover some of the stench.

.

Ha! In 2nd year of med school (Im an IMG) we had to do an all day breast exam clinic. People who had never seen a doctor, or a hot shower in their lives came from far and wide to be screened. I lost my sense of smell that day.

You wouldn't available for next year's clinic, would you?

 

[anomalii]

yea, finding a suit can be hard in some geographic places =/. I'm a female and size 6 but live in a geographic location where morbid obesity is at a maximum relative to the rest of the country. So everything is in extra extra extra large size. I literally went through the whole mall and found 2 suits in my size...I settled for one, but it was still baggy...

Thanks to SDN, I heard good things about Macy's and got myself a nice Tahari suit for under $120 early in the fall . Best suit I ever got and I got complimented too.

 

[howelljolly]

yea, finding a suit can be hard in some geographic places =/. I'm a female and size 6 but live in a geographic location where morbid obesity is at a maximum relative to the rest of the country. So everything is in extra extra extra large size. I literally went through the whole mall and found 2 suits in my size...I settled for one, but it was still baggy...

Thanks to SDN, I heard good things about Macy's and got myself a nice Tahari suit for under $120 early in the fall . Best suit I ever got and I got complimented too.

texas?

 

[anomalii]

texas?

haha . Really good guess, but no, not Texas. Although some neighborhoods are very reminiscent of it.

 

[thesauce]

haha . Really good guess, but no, not Texas. Although some neighborhoods are very reminiscent of it.

Cleveland?

Cleveland is #1 in the country for female obesity, but surprisingly didn't even make the top 10 for men.

 

[RxnMan]

Cleveland?

Cleveland is #1 in the country for female obesity, but surprisingly didn't even make the top 10 for men.

An older population would have a higher absolute # of women (obesity rates would account for this).

 

[thesauce]

An older population would have a higher absolute # of women (obesity rates would account for this).

I think it's %. I'll have to look again.

 

[howelljolly]

top 3 in obesity


memphis
brimingham
san antonio

 

[DoctaJay]

since we are on the subject of fashion, what do those who have applied for a surgical specialty think about bowties? I have been wearing them consistently in the hospital and to church with nothing but positive complements. Should I break out the normal tie for interviews or can I stick with the bowtie?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

since we are on the subject of fashion, what do those who have applied for a surgical specialty think about bowties? I have been wearing them consistently in the hospital and to church with nothing but positive complements. Should I break out the normal tie for interviews or can I stick with the bowtie?

I haven't seen a single applicant wearing one at my interviews.

 

[Winged Scapula]

since we are on the subject of fashion, what do those who have applied for a surgical specialty think about bowties? I have been wearing them consistently in the hospital and to church with nothing but positive complements. Should I break out the normal tie for interviews or can I stick with the bowtie?

Normal tie.

The bowtie connotes "different", "eccentric", etc. Not something you want to convey during interviews.

 

[thesauce]

since we are on the subject of fashion, what do those who have applied for a surgical specialty think about bowties? I have been wearing them consistently in the hospital and to church with nothing but positive complements. Should I break out the normal tie for interviews or can I stick with the bowtie?

Excuse me, we're on the subject of obesity.

 

[Eta Carinae]

since we are on the subject of fashion, what do those who have applied for a surgical specialty think about bowties? I have been wearing them consistently in the hospital and to church with nothing but positive complements. Should I break out the normal tie for interviews or can I stick with the bowtie?

I'll bet grandma Sue-May just goes gaga over you!

 

[Eta Carinae]

.... you know, in the hospital and in church.

 

[DoctaJay]

Normal tie.

The bowtie connotes "different", "eccentric", etc. Not something you want to convey during interviews.

point taken. thanks!

 

[Winged Scapula]

point taken. thanks!

I'm sure you look great in it, but I would conform as much as possible for your surgery interviews.

 

[deleted87716]

Normal tie.

The bowtie connotes "different", "eccentric", etc. Not something you want to convey during interviews.

Gotta agree with her on this point. And I'm a bow tie wearer, too.

 

[dragonfly99]

bowties probably are more socially acceptable for men in certain geographic areas (? Texas) but I wouldn't wear one to an interview.

As far as women's shoes, I absolutely don't think that I could walk in high heels all over a hospital, due to my bad feet in general, the fact that high heels pretty much never fit me (i.e. slide off and on my feet as I'm trying to walk around so that they really hurt and/or I trip and fall) and due to old sports injuries. Maybe if I spent $150-200 on really expensive ones, I might have a chance that they'd be wearable. I actually chose to wear suits with pants so that I could wear back dress boots with a low heel (which look pretty similar to how black mid or high-heeled dress shoes would look). This way I could walk around on the hospital tours with them and not have to worry about getting giant blisters or having significant foot and ankle pain. I think some people on this thread are understimating the difficulty (at least for some women) of finding wearable/tolerable dress shoes. But I do think it's silly not to wear a suit to an interview...it's just taking a chance that you don't need to take.

 

[drmasungit]

Well, I went to my first interview 'blazer-less' last week after spilling coffee all over the blazer. I guess this is one of its' functions. Luckily, I did bring a fine sweater with a crew collar and hoped for the best.

As soon as I took off my coat, the program coordinator noticed, we made eye contact and we both laughed. She teased me and I replied with some funny jokes of my own.

I then joined the herd of candidates and suddenly felt like the black sheep. The rest of the day was uneventful. The Chairman, program directors and residents did not make mention of it. A sign that they did notice.

My take is that not wearing a blazer is a faux pas. It is a show of respect. After all, they, being the whole department aside from housestaff, woke up early like you and donned their professional attire.

That said, not wearing a blazer is not the end of the world. I do advise against showing up without your pants. That my friend is the end of the world and probably the kind of thread I anxiously await from one of our members.

 

[Magnus2010]

When in doubt , over dress. You can always make yourself my casual by removing a jacket or a tie , etc. The only real mistake you can make dressing is under dressing.

 

[LadyWolverine]

Huh. I usually assume people on here are men (as most people assume I am, incorrectly), but I always thought you were a woman. Years of understanding come crashing down!

Me too! WTF, H-J is a dude?? I wonder why we automatically assign genders to screennames/avatars with no basis? And Burnsie, people assume you are male because there is a Mr in your name. So that's not exactly fair.

And to stay on topic - I've been to one interview where there was a woman dressed in very high-fashion slacks, top, and blazer, all of different colors/patterns, instead of a coordinated suit. She pulled it off VERY well (although she must've had a hell of a budget to work with) and did not look out-of-place at all. As a matter of fact, she looked quite professional and stylish. Still, it's a bold move, and you definitely have to know what you are doing to pull it off without looking like a clown or sticking out like a sore thumb.

 

[LadyWolverine]

Normal tie.

The bowtie connotes "different", "eccentric", etc. Not something you want to convey during interviews.

One of the senior residents during my MS3 surgery rotation always wore a bowtie. And he was definitely all of those things.

But he's going to be one hell of a surgeon, so I guess you just need to look the part for the interview day...

 

[howelljolly]

Me too! WTF, H-J is a dude?? I wonder why we automatically assign genders to screennames/avatars with no basis? And Burnsie, people assume you are male because there is a Mr in your name. So that's not exactly fair.
.

Two of you??? What made you think that?

 

[Rogue Synapse]

I don't know dude, I always thought you were a guy. And ever since Burns said something about her husband a few months ago it kinda stuck that she was a girl. But again, even that is making a little bit of an assumption...