All Branch Topic (ABT) Have dentists ever been forced out of the military?

[Incis0r]

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[vellnueve]

Dude, you're waaay too worried about details for a pre-dent. Nothing in life is guaranteed, but generally enough people get out that those who wish to stay have no issues.

 

[Incis0r]

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[LFA20]

Incisor i woukd relax if I were you. I hope you get the scholarship but if you don't get it it's not the end of the world..

 

[Incis0r]

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[LFA20]

You are only a predent who hasn't even applied to dental school and yet and you are already contacting your recruiter and asking about the board result..

 

[NMC2010]

I don't think the legal contract would allow them to just drop you once you're signed unless you did something to merit a dishonorable discharge (in which case you'd still owe them money). You agreed to stay with them X amount of years, but they agreed to pay you and support you as a dentist for the same time period. Seems it would be binding to both parties, but I'm no expert on this.

 

[vellnueve]

I don't think the legal contract would allow them to just drop you once you're signed unless you did something to merit a dishonorable discharge (in which case you'd still owe them money). You agreed to stay with them X amount of years, but they agreed to pay you and support you as a dentist for the same time period. Seems it would be binding to both parties, but I'm no expert on this.

They could drop you for any number of reasons (medical, fitness, forced reduction) but would be unlikely to do so. His question is about whether they can force him out before he finishes his 20 years and gets a retirement, the answer is yes, but again extremely unlikely unless you fail to fulfill your obligations or are involved in misconduct.

 

[schmoob]

You are only a predent who hasn't even applied to dental school and yet and you are already contacting your recruiter and asking about the board result..

This has nothing to do with the thread or his question. He is only looking for info.

 

[Incis0r]

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[LFA20]

This has nothing to do with the thread or his question. He is only looking for info.

Yes it does. he has been posting like crazy for the past month and private messaging people (including me).

 

[Incis0r]

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[schmoob]

Yes it does. he has been posting like crazy for the past month and private messaging people (including me).

Lol, so what? Are you SDN police? Is he posting anything derogatory or violating the terms of service? Let the mods handle it.
Otherwise, let's stay on topic.

 

[cacazor]

You're right. This is an online community for us to talk about military related stuff. and avb speaks for many of us when he says that incisor should tone it down.
He provides answers to questions when he isn't a reliable source of information, and he asks for answers to questions that no one has ever cared enough to ask.
he might not be breaking the rules, but he sure is turning this place into a cesspool of pre-dent neuroticism

 

[schmoob]

How is this not military related stuff?
How many predents do you know that are not neurotic to some extent? Honestly, he does his best to focus on SDN'S purpose as a community. I would rather the resentment be targeted towards some of the vicious and negative condescending folks on the forums.
If everyone who isn't a reliable source of information stopped answering questions on SDN, it would be a very quiet place. And I would rather see a question that no one has ever cared enough to ask versus a question that has been answered 100 times. Seriously, don't you get annoyed with the "3.89GPA 24AA, What are my chances of getting into dental school" questions? I think this thread presents an incredibly important question. If one is hoping to make a career of military dentistry, having at least some sort of background, be it historical or anecdotal, on force reductions is great information to have in one's mind. He is only reaching out for information.

 

[Incis0r]

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[LFA20]

How is this not military related stuff?
How many predents do you know that are not neurotic to some extent? Honestly, he does his best to focus on SDN'S purpose as a community. I would rather the resentment be targeted towards some of the vicious and negative condescending folks on the forums.
If everyone who isn't a reliable source of information stopped answering questions on SDN, it would be a very quiet place. And I would rather see a question that no one has ever cared enough to ask versus a question that has been answered 100 times. Seriously, don't you get annoyed with the "3.89GPA 24AA, What are my chances of getting into dental school" questions? I think this thread presents an incredibly important question. If one is hoping to make a career of military dentistry, having at least some sort of background, be it historical or anecdotal, on force reductions is great information to have in one's mind. He is only reaching out for information.

are you incisor's other account?

 

[cacazor]

believe it or not, people in this sub-forum are good about asking people to chance them. It's all been contained in the 20xx hpsp threads.
This is the only sub-forum that I actually read because everyone else has been good about it in the past.
But when you come up with hypothetical questions like this , it gets annoying because it helps no one. Even chance me thread helps someone to get on the right track. You're telling me that your decision to enter the armed forces and get your education paid for is going to be distracted by some conjunction that the armed forces will force you out 10 or 15 years down the line? come on man. do you plan your christmas dinner plans based on whether or not chipotle might encounter another e.coli epidemic too?

 

[schmoob]

are you incisor's other account?

Busted! I guess you got me. I'm making comments and I have another account to defend my comments when someone to decides to discredit me in any way. I thought I was clever but I guess I could never get one past ol' AVB'S head.....



Listen dude, I don't know you but I've seen some of your postings in the military threads. Time for an attitude adjustment, otherwise your condescending attitude will not be looked well upon by senior officers and you will have a very difficult time in the Navy.

believe it or not, people in this sub-forum are good about asking people to chance them. It's all been contained in the 20xx hpsp threads.
This is the only sub-forum that I actually read because everyone else has been good about it in the past.
But when you come up with hypothetical questions like this that, it gets annoying because it helps no one. Even chance me thread helps someone to get on the right track. You're telling me that your decision to enter the armed forces and get your education paid for is going to be distracted by some conjunction that the armed forces will force you out 10 or 15 years down the line? come on man. do you plan your christmas dinner plans based on whether or not chipotle might encounter another e.coli epidemic too?

Fair point. It is a very very small chance, but it's there. He has made it clear that he will join given the opportunity and at no time has he said that his plans will be based on the answers here. But having that knowledge is just that, knowledge. He wants to have expectations managed.

Btw, who eats Chipotle for Christmas??

 

[lemoncurry]

Keep it on topic, please.

 

[Incis0r]

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[aqz]

Last I checked with my Air Force recruiter/interviewer, the Air Force is getting so competitive that you have to really stay on top of your stuff if you want to stay in. Otherwise, you may get "fired" after your HPSP commitment is over.

But what do I know, I'm probably just @Incis0r's 3rd account.

 

[Incis0r]

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[Roto Picante]

People don't get "Fired" in the AF after their HPSP commitment. As with any job, there a expectations like: Passing pt tests, going to assigned training, working reasonably hard, not being a horrible human being. If someone were to be fired as you put it, you would have to be a pretty big screw off.

 

[aqz]

People don't get "Fired" in the AF after their HPSP commitment. As with any job, there a expectations like: Passing pt tests, going to assigned training, working reasonably hard, not being a horrible human being. If someone were to be fired as you put it, you would have to be a pretty big screw off.

The way it was said to me was along the lines of "you won't have to worry about feeling bad if you want to leave right after your commitment is over. The AF is getting so competitive that we have to get rid of people".

 

[cacazor]

The way it was said to me was along the lines of "you won't have to worry about feeling bad if you want to leave right after your commitment is over. The AF is getting so competitive that we have to get rid of people".

"you won't have to worry about feeling bad if you want to leave right after your commitment is over"
is very different from
"Otherwise, you may get "fired" after your HPSP commitment is over."
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[aqz]

"you won't have to worry about feeling bad if you want to leave right after your commitment is over"
is very different from
"Otherwise, you may get "fired" after your HPSP commitment is over."
...

Way to not read my whole quote buddy "The AF is getting so competitive that we have to get rid of people".

 

[Hedgy]

The only dentists I know of that were "forced" out were one that failed his board exams 4 times and a LT that had a DUI while in the service. Both were passed over for promotion 2 times and were pushed out that way.

 

[Incis0r]

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[schmoob]

It depends on different factors, like prior service but generally it's up or out. I've seen 30yr O4s (prior MCPO). Promotion for officers works by "zones." A Google search would explain it faster and better than I can write it out lol.

 

[Hedgy]

Thank you for responding, sir!

So it is "up or out?"
I think I remember reading that O5 can stay up to 26ish years? Is that something you can verify?

I believe 26 is the max for an O5, however needs of the Navy/military dictate. The Floss Boss from my ship retired at 29 yrs, 6 mos as on O5. His last duty station was Lakehurst, NJ. No one wanted the billet, so they kept him there for longer.

I also think you can stay in for 2 years past your final promotion. We had an endodontist at Great Lakes that was a prior DT in Vietnam, went to dental school, and came back into the Navy. He was close to 30 years after making O5 just before I came to Great Lakes.

 

[Incis0r]

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[krmower]

Not necessarily. You are compared against your peers for promotion. If everyone else being considered for promotion has a more impressive resume - then you can be passed over for O-5. If everyone being considered has equally unimpressive resumes that you are at par with your peers and will have as good of a chance as them. I am not trying to indicate that staying clinical is unimpressive, because staying clinical will still provide you opportunities to demonstrate leadership and value. I am trying to convey that even dentists that have no business being promoted can get promoted at times because of a weak field of people being considered.

It is also affected by supply and demand. When certain ranks are filled up, then promotion rates can be adjusted down so that too many officers are not moved up into the next rank. They look at that and adjust it year by year.

 

[LFA20]

Incisor, I'm amazed on how proactive you are about this whole thing..

 

[Incis0r]

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[aqz]

Incisor, I'm amazed on how proactive you are about this whole thing..

@AVB2104, I'm amazed you're still responding to this thread.

 

[Incis0r]

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[agent2362]

Well it depends on alot of things, but I know plenty of majors/O-4 that are doing more paperwork than clinical work. Plenty of majors are OICs of clinics, especially if they are bravos/ 2 yr AEGD grads. Heck I even know an O-4 that is a commander over a tiny base.

 

[Incis0r]

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[LFA20]

@AVB2104, I'm amazed you're still responding to this thread.

does your inital happen to be AZ? hahaha
man i don't expect you to look like that judging from your eloquence..

 

[Hedgy]

It seems to be transitioning into a promotion thread. I think I've stated this elsewhere, but there tends to be 2 career tracks for promotion, academic and command. Also, it's "easier" to get promoted if you are at a larger base with more officers to be compared/ranked. It looks a lot better if you are #1/15 vs #1/1 if you get what I mean.

I think staying clinical is tough during a career. It seemed to me that most would do a command route where you are a like an Asst Director, then Director, then run a branch clinic, then a larger clinic, etc. The O6s at Great Lakes that were near retirement seemed to do more clinical because they knew they were getting out and wanted to get their skills up. My friend stayed in to 11 years and specialized in Perio. He sat in on several O6 promotion boards as a recorder. He saw that most being promoted were "paper dentists" and he wanted to remain clinical. He planned on the academic route (instructing at Bethesda), but just didn't see that it was best for him.

The Floss Boss retired at O5. He did more operational and had more salad on his chest than any senior officer I knew (carrier, 2 other ship tours, 2 tours in Italy, Marines in Iraq#1 in Saudi). He never made O6 because he never did any large commands. He was fine with that. He was single, liked deploying, and knew that an O5 retirement was still pretty good.

 

[drill-and-fill]

Is it tough to stay clinical even if you're a specialist? I would imagine the opposite since the navy invested both time and money into your education and they would want to get the most of outta ya by having you do what you were trained to do, i.e. clinical stuff in your trained specialty. I did hear about specialists doing non-clinical assignments like officer detailing but I'm guessing they're doing that to increase their chance of promotion to O6 later down the line.

 

[vellnueve]

Is it tough to stay clinical even if you're a specialist? I would imagine the opposite since the navy invested both time and money into your education and they would want to get the most of outta ya by having you do what you were trained to do, i.e. clinical stuff in your trained specialty. I did hear about specialists doing non-clinical assignments like officer detailing but I'm guessing they're doing that to increase their chance of promotion to O6 later down the line.

It's not tough to stay clinical as a specialist or even as a general dentist - but it is tough to go the executive medicine track and (especially as a general dentist) make O-6 unless you take some sort of administrative position, whether it be as a department head, director, specialty leader, or other role. The detailers are usually already O-6s or very senior O-5s.

 

[gatorfan99]

Bottom line is (with very few exceptions) you get high enough in rank you will be put in charge of something, either a dental clinic and/or dental activity or an education program. The days of you living inside your little fox hole doing dentistry and being left alone are gone.

 

[vellnueve]

Bottom line is (with very few exceptions) you get high enough in rank you will be put in charge of something, either a dental clinic and/or dental activity or an education program. The days of you living inside your little fox hole doing dentistry and being left alone are gone.

I disagree. We have plenty of purely clinical O5s and O6s (although the latter generally paid their dues with admin work in the past). Depends on where you are and how much admin needs to be done.

 

[Incis0r]

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[gatorfan99]

Could this be a difference between the services? I know Vellnueve is Navy. Gator, are you Army? If so, what you're saying is consistent with what agent2362 said and I would believe that.

I doubt there's a difference between services - its probably that we have had two different experiences/viewpoints (different locations, assignments and met different people).

There's very little that's different between the services - other than the fact that navy people whine a lot