Hard time ranking Residency Programs...

[reverie1947]

Down to the wire...Hard time ranking these Peds Residency Programs...

Baylor College of Medicine (Houston) Program
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
UCLA
Emory University School of Medicine Program
University of Michigan Health System Program
University of Chicago Program

What has been your experience with these...Any red flags such as really long unbearable shifts...not resident friendly...lost in the ocean...

Thanks in advance...

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[GoSpursGo]

I think most would say those are all good programs. I might argue BCM is a step above the other programs in terms of national recognition, but you will have great training at any of those institutions.

Any of them will also have some long shifts. It’s residency, there will be some good months and some rough months. As far as being “resident friendly,” that’s an intangible that will mean different things to different people, so I honestly would go based on your own impression more than anything you hear from someone else

 

[reverie1947]

Thanks GoSpursGo....BCM is my #1...but I am guessing I have only 25% chance of matching there...considering all the factors...with next 4 coming with 50% probability...Have a 90% shot with UofC... With the last 5 almost equal shot of making it...I did a lot of research about them...but Quality of life at the program is a big unknown...hence asked...

A couple of them have 24 hour shifts with not much of a break...which no other program has...Wondering whether that is a red flag with more chances of real burnout...

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

2 things every student should ask IMO:

24 hour shifts?
How many weeks vacation?

The answer to those can tell you a lot about how responsive/“resident friendly” a place is.

I’ve never met a single person who I would consider a normal human being that said “oh yeah I like 24 hour shift can we please work some of those?”

 

[mvenus929]

2 things every student should ask IMO:

24 hour shifts?
How many weeks vacation?

The answer to those can tell you a lot about how responsive/“resident friendly” a place is.

I’ve never met a single person who I would consider a normal human being that said “oh yeah I like 24 hour shift can we please work some of those?”

I mean, I prefered the 24 hour shifts over the random 12 hour overnight shifts we did to cover so the night shift people could have a night off. Did I love the 24s? No, but the nurses knew we were on all day/night, so the vast majority of the time we were able to get a couple hours of sleep. I also did 24 hour shifts as an attending and had the same experience. I also know residents who loathed 24 hour shifts and would much rather do the swing shifts.

 

[reverie1947]

Thank you both...HemeOncHopeful19 & mvenus929 for your inputs...Appreciate it...

 

[Stone Cold]

Down to the wire...Hard time ranking these Peds Residency Programs...

Baylor College of Medicine (Houston) Program
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
UCLA
Emory University School of Medicine Program
University of Michigan Health System Program
University of Chicago Program

What has been your experience with these...Any red flags such as really long unbearable shifts...not resident friendly...lost in the ocean...

Thanks in advance...

Imo

BCM>UTSMC=Emory=UMich>UCLA=UofC

Friend of mine is currently in a peds fellowship in UCLA and she says their peds patient load is fairly low given it's proximity to CHLA with most of the complex cases going to the latter

 

[reverie1947]

Thanks Stone Cold...That clarifies the picture for me...especially the top 5...
Now I need to worry about the 6th one where I have the highest probability of matching...

I was going to rank Chicago as 6th..but the 28 hour shift is the only stumbling block there...

My other choices for the 6th rank would be

TX Austin University of Texas at Austin Dell Medical School
FL Miami Nicklaus Children's Hospital Program

MD Baltimore University of Maryland Program
NC Charlotte Carolinas Medical Center Program
WI Milwaukee Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals

OH Cleveland Cleveland Clinic Foundation Program
OH Cleveland The MetroHealth System/Case Western
OH Cleveland Case Western Reserve Univ/Univ Hosps /Rainbow

Will any of the above pip Chicago especially Dell and Nicklaus...?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Rank them however you feel because in the end, it's just a gut feeling, realizing that if 4 hours difference in a shift is a hang up, then its a hang up, even if in the end it doesn't matter at all.

The computer also figures out what the right match is so really you just have to choose whatever you would be satisfied with, which proactively deciding is pretty impossible to tell. And make sure you don't rank places you really can't see yourself at at all (if there are any on your list like that). Most of residency, beyond learning, is just about mindset. If you go in with a good attitude, then you get more out of it. But if you go in with a poor attitude (ie you listed a place you really didn't want to go to at all), then it is more likely to be relatively miserable.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thanks Stone Cold...That clarifies the picture for me...especially the top 5...
Now I need to worry about the 6th one where I have the highest probability of matching...

I was going to rank Chicago as 6th..but the 28 hour shift is the only stumbling block there...

My other choices for the 6th rank would be

TX Austin University of Texas at Austin Dell Medical School
FL Miami Nicklaus Children's Hospital Program

MD Baltimore University of Maryland Program
NC Charlotte Carolinas Medical Center Program
WI Milwaukee Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals

OH Cleveland Cleveland Clinic Foundation Program
OH Cleveland The MetroHealth System/Case Western
OH Cleveland Case Western Reserve Univ/Univ Hosps /Rainbow

Will any of the above pip Chicago especially Dell and Nicklaus...?

I would say that Rainbow is clearly "better" than the other programs you listed, with the caveat that ultimately it matters more where you think you will be happy than anything else. But if you're asking for some nebulous idea about the reputation of the program, that one stands out next to the other programs.

MCW has some really strong researchers in heme/onc, if that's at all an interest to you.

Similar to how UCLA gets dwarfed by CHLA, my general sense is that this happens for UChicago (NWestern), U MD (Hopkins and CNMC), and the Cleveland programs (Rainbow). I don't know enough about Austin, Miami or Charlotte to comment.

 

[reverie1947]

Rank them however you feel because in the end, it's just a gut feeling, realizing that if 4 hours difference in a shift is a hang up, then its a hang up, even if in the end it doesn't matter at all.

The computer also figures out what the right match is so really you just have to choose whatever you would be satisfied with, which proactively deciding is pretty impossible to tell. And make sure you don't rank places you really can't see yourself at at all (if there are any on your list like that). Most of residency, beyond learning, is just about mindset. If you go in with a good attitude, then you get more out of it. But if you go in with a poor attitude (ie you listed a place you really didn't want to go to at all), then it is more likely to be relatively miserable.

Thank you...I hear you... Not sure I understood your 4 hour difference comment...The longest shift I see is 12 hours (Am I correct?) in all other places Vs U Chicago having 28 hours... Do you imply we have a 24 hour continuous shift in other places?

I liked everything about U Chicago (as my 6th pick...with high probability of matching) except for the 28 hour shift with no 2nd day off....

Thanks again!

 

[reverie1947]

I would say that Rainbow is clearly "better" than the other programs you listed, with the caveat that ultimately it matters more where you think you will be happy than anything else. But if you're asking for some nebulous idea about the reputation of the program, that one stands out next to the other programs.

MCW has some really strong researchers in heme/onc, if that's at all an interest to you.

Similar to how UCLA gets dwarfed by CHLA, my general sense is that this happens for UChicago (NWestern), U MD (Hopkins and CNMC), and the Cleveland programs (Rainbow). I don't know enough about Austin, Miami or Charlotte to comment.

Thanks again for your insights...If all other programs have a dozen 24 hour shifts a year, then I can pencil in Chicago for the 6th and breathe easy... I will do some more research this week...Thank You...

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

I will still say that having gone from 4 weeks of vacation in residency to 3 weeks in fellowship has made a larger impact on my overall QOL and "wellness" than anything else. That’s literally a 25% or 33% difference in vacation depending on how you look at it.

Every residency is going to work you harder than you deserve and thank you for your sacrifices with occasional donuts.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Thank you...I hear you... Not sure I understood your 4 hour difference comment...The longest shift I see is 12 hours (Am I correct?) in all other places Vs U Chicago having 28 hours... Do you imply we have a 24 hour continuous shift in other places?

I liked everything about U Chicago (as my 6th pick...with high probability of matching) except for the 28 hour shift with no 2nd day off....

Thanks again!

Maybe I misunderstood the hours you were talking about. Either way though, there are weekly work hour restrictions. So whether you have 1 24 hour shift and 3 12s versus 5 12s, the total hours are the same. You’ll spend the same about of time in the hospital and in your bed sleeping with either schedule. Of course, if one of those looks more appealing, then that’s fine, but practically speaking they are the same. That’s why I think things like work schedules are irrelevant (or at least shouldn’t be relevant) because they by default are restricted.

To me, the most important things are 1) when you are not in the hospital (which is actually very little of your time) what’s around you that is a quick and easy thing to do to decompress (most important in my opinion, ie you don’t want to go to a program that is far away from X or doesn’t have Y) and 2) if you plan on doing general pediatrics, is the program have enough autonomy for residents within reason OR if you plan on doing a subspecialty, does the program have good match rates for the subspecialty of interest. Outside of those specific things, nearly every program is more or less identical. In fact, they have to be to be ACGME accredited. The whole point of ACGME accreditation is that no matter where you go, you develop the same skill set and have a similar as experience as every other resident in the country so that the graduating classes of residents are as homogenous in abilities as possible.

 

[reverie1947]

Maybe I misunderstood the hours you were talking about. Either way though, there are weekly work hour restrictions. So whether you have 1 24 hour shift and 3 12s versus 5 12s, the total hours are the same. You’ll spend the same about of time in the hospital and in your bed sleeping with either schedule. Of course, if one of those looks more appealing, then that’s fine, but practically speaking they are the same. That’s why I think things like work schedules are irrelevant (or at least shouldn’t be relevant) because they by default are restricted.

To me, the most important things are 1) when you are not in the hospital (which is actually very little of your time) what’s around you that is a quick and easy thing to do to decompress (most important in my opinion, ie you don’t want to go to a program that is far away from X or doesn’t have Y) and 2) if you plan on doing general pediatrics, is the program have enough autonomy for residents within reason OR if you plan on doing a subspecialty, does the program have good match rates for the subspecialty of interest. Outside of those specific things, nearly every program is more or less identical. In fact, they have to be to be ACGME accredited. The whole point of ACGME accreditation is that no matter where you go, you develop the same skill set and have a similar as experience as every other resident in the country so that the graduating classes of residents are as homogenous in abilities as possible.

Excellent...That clarifies my doubt on the subject forever...Thanks again for your sound advice!!

 

[reverie1947]

I will still say that having gone from 4 weeks of vacation in residency to 3 weeks in fellowship has made a larger impact on my overall QOL and "wellness" than anything else. That’s literally a 25% or 33% difference in vacation depending on how you look at it.

Every residency is going to work you harder than you deserve and thank you for your sacrifices with occasional donuts.

I hear you...Thank you..

 

[Stone Cold]

Thanks Stone Cold...That clarifies the picture for me...especially the top 5...
Now I need to worry about the 6th one where I have the highest probability of matching...

I was going to rank Chicago as 6th..but the 28 hour shift is the only stumbling block there...

My other choices for the 6th rank would be

TX Austin University of Texas at Austin Dell Medical School
FL Miami Nicklaus Children's Hospital Program

MD Baltimore University of Maryland Program
NC Charlotte Carolinas Medical Center Program
WI Milwaukee Medical College of Wisconsin Affiliated Hospitals

OH Cleveland Cleveland Clinic Foundation Program
OH Cleveland The MetroHealth System/Case Western
OH Cleveland Case Western Reserve Univ/Univ Hosps /Rainbow

Will any of the above pip Chicago especially Dell and Nicklaus...?

I pretty much interviewed at most of these places recently for my fellowship and I felt Nicklaus is great from a clinical standpoint - very high and diverse patient pool and they seem to take in some of the most complex surgeries which helps if you intend to go for critical care. Rainbow is great from a research aspect and I'd put it at the same level as Nicklaus, it just depends on whether you're prioritizing research or clinical. I'd place both of these over UChicago and UCLA. Haven't interviewed at Dell (they don't have a fellowship program I applied to) but I heard their adult programs are good, can't say the same for peds and this goes for most hospitals in general

Just curious, you have three Cleveland programs in the list. Given your top 5 choices, are Cincy and Nationwide in OH being considered?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Not that a resident would ever really have much interaction with administrative chiefs, but Dell is where fired leaders go to be rehired.

 

[Stone Cold]

Not that a resident would ever really have much interaction with administrative chiefs, but Dell is where fired leaders go to be rehired.

I'm now intrigued to know why?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

I'm now intrigued to know why?

I’m not giving specifics, sorry. It also maybe absolutely no reflection of the residency program but the leadership is… er… unique.