GW vs. Temple vs. Jeff vs. Downstate

[goldfish0991]

Hi everyone! I have narrowed my options to these 3 schools.

-Jeff is most expensive, ~20K extra per year than Temple or Downstate.
-I live in NY with long-term SO
-I am non-trad, and undecided about future specialty (keeping an open mind)

I am having a hard time differentiating/deciding between the programs, and any input (or vote!) would be helpful. Thanks

Jefferson

+ location in center city, walkable, can live nearby
+ 8 weeks off for USMLE Step 1
+ good reputation and maybe higher prestige than other options
+ has some top residency programs

- Cost: not sure sure it is worth $80K more than Temple
- new curriculum guinea pigs


Temple

+ loved the school and vibe, best connection to students and faculty so far
+ got a good scholarship
+ great facilities and clinical training

- only 5 weeks off for USMLE Step 1, exams do not incorporate old Step 1 Q's (less exposure to Q's throughout first two years)
- location not as safe


Downstate

+ cost (in-state tuition)
+ keep current life and support network
+ strong clinical training
+ 7 weeks off for USMLE Step 1

- no simulation center, how much does this affect student learning?
- negative comments from students regarding communication with administrators, other hassles inherent to public institutions/ schools with less funding
- class gets split into 2 sections, never really interact with other section
- has lowest reputation of the three schools (from talking with doctors, even in NY)

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[deev04]

What's the difference in total COA Jefferson/GW vs Temple?

I think Temple > Downstate both in reputation and in terms of your list of pros/cons, so I might take that one off. I would agree that Jefferson/GW are probably slightly more well-regarded than Temple and you seem to like them better. However, I think the difference is not that great and 80k is not nothing. If that 80k is the difference between 180k and 260k I think that also makes a big difference because when you start to get well above 200k, you're starting to get into the zone where people often feel pressure to make decisions about specialty, location, COL, etc. based on $$$-related factors.

 

[goldfish0991]

What's the difference in total COA Jefferson/GW vs Temple?

I think Temple > Downstate both in reputation and in terms of your list of pros/cons, so I might take that one off. I would agree that Jefferson/GW are probably slightly more well-regarded than Temple and you seem to like them better. However, I think the difference is not that great and 80k is not nothing. If that 80k is the difference between 180k and 260k I think that also makes a big difference because when you start to get well above 200k, you're starting to get into the zone where people often feel pressure to make decisions about specialty, location, COL, etc. based on $$$-related factors.

Thanks! The money factor is complicated and I might have to take out loans if I chose Jeff/ GW over the other two. Otherwise, I will mostly get help from my family and may have only small loans. I agree that the difference between temple and Jefferson/ GW is not that great- which is what's making this so hard!!!

 

[deev04]

Thanks! The money factor is complicated and I might have to take out loans if I chose Jeff/ GW over the other two. Otherwise, I will mostly get help from my family and may have only small loans. I agree that the difference between temple and Jefferson/ GW is not that great- which is what's making this so hard!!!

How small? Would you would be looking at COA of ~80/100k for Jefferson/GW vs only around 20-30k for Temple? In that case, I still think the disparity in cost warrants careful consideration (especially since Temple is great and the rank thing is almost negligible), but choosing Jefferson/GW potentially seems less silly since your overall COA would still be reasonable (well, for med school lol).

 

[goldfish0991]

How small? Would you would be looking at COA of ~80/100k for Jefferson/GW vs only around 20-30k for Temple? In that case, I still think the disparity in cost warrants careful consideration (especially since Temple is great and the rank thing is almost negligible), but choosing Jefferson/GW potentially seems less silly since your overall COA would still be reasonable (well, for med school lol).

True! great points. I assume my loans would not be over $200K. I am also hoping to hear more about why people are voting for Jefferson and Downstate over Temple (I had a great experience at Temple and though I don't love that it's a more traditional curriculum, at least it has been tested for years... unlike JeffMD).

 

[deev04]

I am also hoping to hear more about why people are voting for Jefferson and Downstate over Temple (I had a great experience at Temple and though I don't love that it's a more traditional curriculum, at least it has been tested for years... unlike JeffMD).

I'd also like to know about the Downstate part haha. But, we're all anonymous internet people, so we'll probably never know. Your negatives and Downstate's lower reputation seem like significant enough reasons to rule it out though.

If I were you, I'd really figure out the financials and what sort of debt you're actually be looking at (and what that repayment might look like) and then decide whether the curricular and opportunity differences between the schools (taking into account your preferences) warrant the cost. You might realize you actually like Temple better and thus the savings is just a plus. If not, thinking about what you'd actually be gaining/giving up by choosing one over the other (and whether that's worth the money) might be a helpful way to look at it.

 

[unicorns123]

New to SDN, but wanted to chime in because I have a similar dilemma (I'm between Jeff and Downstate).

Interestingly, when I talked to doctors in NYC (oncologist at MSK and a PCP), they categorized the prestige level of Jeff and Downstate (plus Rochester, actually) to be similar. Also, with JeffMD, the exams are written by faculty so Downstate's the only one out of the three you've listed that uses old Step 1 questions. I can't tell how big a deal this is since most schools don't release Step 1 averages, but the idea of being a guinea pig at Jeff worries me a little me too.

 

[Chelsea FC]

What's the difference in total COA Jefferson/GW vs Temple?

I think Temple > Downstate both in reputation and in terms of your list of pros/cons, so I might take that one off. I would agree that Jefferson/GW are probably slightly more well-regarded than Temple and you seem to like them better. However, I think the difference is not that great and 80k is not nothing. If that 80k is the difference between 180k and 260k I think that also makes a big difference because when you start to get well above 200k, you're starting to get into the zone where people often feel pressure to make decisions about specialty, location, COL, etc. based on $$$-related factors.

Just want to chime in that downstate has comparable reputation to all of the schools you listed, Jeff us the highest but not significant enough. Downstate has also been training doctors for over 100 years and vast majority of doctors practicing in NYC went through downstate system. If ur foal is to come back NYC for residency that might be a positive. Also downstate students have a massive reputation of being very well trained medical students because they see alot during training (which mitigates the lack of the simulation center that most school brags about) in downstate you will get alot of real life experience not with a doll. Paired with the fact that downstate would be the cheaper option closer to ur SO ad support system I would choose it. I have also been accepted to temple with a very large scholarship and love that school as well.

 

[deev04]

Just want to chime in that downstate has comparable reputation to all of the schools you listed, Jeff us the highest but not significant enough. Downstate has also been training doctors for over 100 years and vast majority of doctors practicing in NYC went through downstate system. If ur foal is to come back NYC for residency that might be a positive. Also downstate students have a massive reputation of being very well trained medical students because they see alot during training (which mitigates the lack of the simulation center that most school brags about) in downstate you will get alot of real life experience not with a doll.

Prestige is a nebulous thing that is difficult to peg down with any one ranking or by asking a particular group of people. I'd agree that Jeff/Downstate are similar in terms of prestige, but I still think Jeff has the edge (sample size=me) and probably does to more people/PDs. Hard to see exactly how Jeff compares to Downstate from more objective means since Downstate is unranked but Jeff's residency director score is 3.4/5 which is very, very solid (same level as Tufts/BU) and is reflected in their matches. Downstate punches well above its weight in NYC, probably because of its reputation within NYC for having good clinical exposure and its students preference to remain in NYC. If you have any uncertainty about wanting to do residency in NYC (and many people do since plans change, you decide on a competitive specialty or decide to value prestige over location), I think Jeff probably sets you up better. Jeff will not hold you back from matching in NYC and will likely open more doors both in terms of medical school opportunities (e.g. research) and residency prospects.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Prestige is a nebulous thing that is difficult to peg down with any one ranking or by asking a particular group of people. I'd agree that Jeff/Downstate are similar in terms of prestige, but I still think Jeff has the edge (sample size=me) and probably does to more people/PDs. Hard to see exactly how Jeff compares to Downstate from more objective means since Downstate is unranked but Jeff's residency director score is 3.4/5 which is very, very solid (same level as Tufts/BU) and is reflected in their matches. Downstate punches well above its weight in NYC, probably because of its reputation within NYC for having good clinical exposure and its students preference to remain in NYC. If you have any uncertainty about wanting to do residency in NYC (and many people do since plans change, you decide on a competitive specialty or decide to value prestige over location), I think Jeff probably sets you up better. Jeff will not hold you back from matching in NYC and will likely open more doors both in terms of medical school opportunities (e.g. research) and residency prospects.

First you repeated what I said. The difference in prestige between downstate and Jeff is minor with Jeff slightly being higher. WitH that being said does the extra debt and being away from your SO and support system worth that negligible difference in prestige?
Also it is much more likely that OP would want to stay and practice where his SO and support system is which going to downstate would help but just like prestige the amount it will is negligible

 

[deev04]

First you repeated what I said. The difference in prestige between downstate and Jeff is minor with Jeff slightly being higher. WitH that being said does the extra debt and being away from your SO and support system worth that negligible difference in prestige?

Yes, I was agreeing with you haha. That's why I put I agree in front of it. Already mentioned the cost aspects in my posts above (#4/6) , but impossible to say if its worth the cost and likely depends on OP. Can OP's SO move? How much does OP value specific aspects of the schools in question? etc. If it was an extra 200k, then no, but it seems like OPs situation is almost no debt (help from family) vs. some loans (~20k/year) which is not an unreasonable amount of debt if you have a strong preference.

edit: also, with regards to family I think having a support system is so important, but being in the same city doesn't necessarily equal getting to see the fam every month. You'll be beyond busy in med school. Breaks are probably your best bet, same city or not, and Philly to NYC is a 2hr bus/train. It can take 2+ hrs to get from Downstate to Columbia or other parts of NYC depending on how generous the MTA is feeling.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Yes, I was agreeing with you haha. That's why I put I agree in front of it. Already mentioned the cost aspects in my posts above (#4/6) , but impossible to say if its worth the cost and likely depends on OP. Can OP's SO move? How much does OP value specific aspects of the schools in question? etc. If it was an extra 200k, then no, but it seems like OPs situation is almost no debt (help from family) vs. some loans (~20k/year) which is not an unreasonable amount of debt if you have a strong preference.

80k total is nothing to sneeze at but wouldn't be a deciding factor for me to choose one school over another so we agree on that. So if everting else is a wash/even I think the fact that ur SO don't have to move and being close to support system and u save a little money as well makes downstate the winner. Students at jeff seem happier to me though which made the students more happy but to me being closer to my support system outweighs that. Also why isn't temple higher on OP list the negatives they posted aren't really significant. (Ps I love that school as well )

Also for full disclosure I live in a area that directly sees the work that downstate as a institution does and the effect it has on poor communities so I might be biased

 

[deev04]

80k total is nothing to sneeze at but wouldn't be a deciding factor for me to choose one school over another so we agree on that. So if everting else is a wash/even I think the fact that ur SO don't have to move and being close to support system and u save a little money as well makes downstate the winner. Students at jeff seem happier to me though which made the students more happy but to me being closer to my support system outweighs that. Also why isn't temple higher on OP list the negatives they posted aren't really significant. (Ps I love that school as well )

Also for full disclosure I live in a area that directly sees the work that downstate as a institution does and the effect it has on poor communities so I might be biased

Your logic is exactly how I'd go about deciding and how I think OP should probably go about making a decision. And I'm a fellow fan of Temple. The difference between Jeff/Temple is probably even less (in terms of prestige and location), so I'd be all about taking that extra money.

Also big Brooklyn fan. All the comments about Downstate's location always make me a bit sad. Sure, its not the best and is objectively less safe than Chelsea, but you'd think walking during daylight is high risk based on the comments in the Downstate thread. Prospect Park > Central Park, local food on point, Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights/Dumbo are super nice areas if that's your thing. Atlantic Terminal gives you suburban level shopping convenience. And you can start the school year with J'Ouvert.

 

[NonTrad16]

If your SO is a serious consideration, I'd personally take that heavily into account. You'll be moving for an exciting new thing, but will also be very busy. If your SO is happy in NYC, and would be planning on moving with you, then disrupting their support network/friends/job/family/whatever is a pretty big thing. Some SOs could be pumped to get out, but there could also be a lot of reasons that leaving could be difficult for them. If they are only going to a new place because you are, and they will have to do it again in 4 years, that can be... a strain.

Disclosure: I interviewed at and really enjoyed Jefferson. I didn't interview at Temple and turned down my Downstate interview, so I can't speak specifically about them, but they seem on-par with each other based on what I've seen on SDN. Unless you and your SO have a strong motivation to get out of the city (OR temple had some huge positive for you/ downstate had a huge negative), I'd probably choose Downstate.

 

[wiglet64]

Decision?

 

[goldfish0991]

Jefferson!