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messi MD

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Hello everyone , I'm looking for some advice on how to work my way to training in Canada
I graduated from med school 3 years ago , from Libya , North Africa
Soooo what do I do to make my dream come true ???? Noting that I've never been in Canada and hold only a Libyan nationality , I've lived nearly 13 years of my life in the uk but med school was in Libya
Please help me in any way you can

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You have absolutely no chance.
1. Are you even a citizen or Permanent resident of Canada? (If not you will not even be able to apply)
2. You did medical school in Libya.
3. You are 3 years out from medical school and counting.
My advice to you would be to save your effort and time and try somewhere else. The road you are headed leads to disappointment.
 
Wow...I apologize on behalf of the previous poster...people can be so mean especially when they know they can hide on line. It will not be easy but it is not impossible.

My advice:
# 1 write MCCEE
#2 write MCCQE1
http://www.mcc.ca/en/exams/ee/

Check out
http://www.usask.ca/cme/SIPPA/index.php

http://gtds.gov.sk.ca/Pages/Details.aspx?organizationid=24c5fa38-36f8-4e47-b98e-dd679a861b33

http://www.saskdocs.ca/m/

I can not give u a lot more info...I just know this province recruits IMGs heavily currently 53% of physicians are IMGs.

Good luck.
 
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Magical Trevor , tnx for the reply even if being discouraging :(
 
Thank you soo much staryy
I am taking the MCCEE next September
I know it's a rough path but when there's a will there's a way
I am hoping on applying for a family physician job , if that goes well and a period of assessment works fine I'll probably keep working there until I get a permanent residency .
Do you by any chance know how long it would take for that to happen ?
And again thank you for keeping my hopes up , you're a charm.
 
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Hello everyone , I'm looking for some advice on how to work my way to training in Canada
I graduated from med school 3 years ago , from Libya , North Africa
Soooo what do I do to make my dream come true ???? Noting that I've never been in Canada and hold only a Libyan nationality , I've lived nearly 13 years of my life in the uk but med school was in Libya
Please help me in any way you can

To be licensed to practice (say family medicine) in Canada you must:

1) First become a permanent resident / citizen
2) If your medical school is FAIMER listed, you can apply for a residency position - this involves:
a) passing the MCCEE
b) passing language tests
c) potentially passing the NAC-OSCE (another exam)
d) the LMCC Part I isn't required, but wouldn't hurt (so long as you pass)

It is very, very difficult for IMGs to match to a residency position in Canada. The current match rate is <20% and these are usually very recent grads who are Canadian-born (e.g. 20 year olds who went to Ireland to gain their MD degrees). They will have the advantages of being very comfortable with the Canadian social / medical system, and likely will have had an opportunity to do medical electives at Canadian schools (this makes the residency programs much more likely to choose them). Note that this often takes many, many years to complete (if it happens at all), so you'd need some way of supporting yourself in the meantime . . . ergo you hear stories of foreign MDs driving cabs, drywalling condos, etc. etc.

Once you're in residency, you work hard, and then at the end if you are able to pass the national boards (the Royal College or CCFP exams), you would then be able to apply for a license to practice medicine in your specialty.

If you're school isn't FAIMER listed, you would have to:
1) become a Canadian PR / citizen
2) repeat medical school in Canada, and maybe your undergrad degree

Another option is to do residency in the US. It is much easier for IMGs to match in the US than in Canada. An important difference is that you don't necessarily have to be a citizen of the US to do residency there, while you do have to be a PR/citizen of Canada to do residency in Canada. If you were interested in family medicine, I believe (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong), there would be one additional plus: if you obtained and completed a US family medicine residency and passed the US family med boards, those would be recognized in Canada (e.g. you wouldn't have to write the CCF

PS - Is that saskdoc website for real? That's the provincial physician recruitment site? That's truly pathetic. Don't they realize that quality applicants are going to look at that and run away?
 
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Wow...I apologize on behalf of the previous poster...people can be so mean especially when they know they can hide on line. It will not be easy but it is not impossible.

My advice:
# 1 write MCCEE
#2 write MCCQE1
http://www.mcc.ca/en/exams/ee/

I'm pretty sure you cannot take the exams if you aren't a Citizen/PR. So the poster above is correct, although sounds harsh because of the news itself.

To be licensed to practice (say family medicine) in Canada you must:

1) First become a permanent resident / citizen
2) If your medical school is FAIMER listed, you can apply for a residency position - this involves:
a) passing the MCCEE
b) passing language tests
c) potentially passing the NAC-OSCE (another exam)
d) the LMCC Part I isn't required, but wouldn't hurt (so long as you pass)

It is very, very difficult for IMGs to match to a residency position in Canada. The current match rate is <20% and these are usually very recent grads who are Canadian-born (e.g. 20 year olds who went to Ireland to gain their MD degrees). They will have the advantages of being very comfortable with the Canadian social / medical system, and likely will have had an opportunity to do medical electives at Canadian schools (this makes the residency programs much more likely to choose them). Note that this often takes many, many years to complete (if it happens at all), so you'd need some way of supporting yourself in the meantime . . . ergo you hear stories of foreign MDs driving cabs, drywalling condos, etc. etc.

Once you're in residency, you work hard, and then at the end if you are able to pass the national boards (the Royal College or CCFP exams), you would then be able to apply for a license to practice medicine in your specialty.

If you're school isn't FAIMER listed, you would have to:
1) become a Canadian PR / citizen
2) repeat medical school in Canada, and maybe your undergrad degree

Another option is to do residency in the US. It is much easier for IMGs to match in the US than in Canada. An important difference is that you don't necessarily have to be a citizen of the US to do residency there, while you do have to be a PR/citizen of Canada to do residency in Canada. If you were interested in family medicine, I believe (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong), there would be one additional plus: if you obtained and completed a US family medicine residency and passed the US family med boards, those would be recognized in Canada (e.g. you wouldn't have to write the CCF

PS - Is that saskdoc website for real? That's the provincial physician recruitment site? That's truly pathetic. Don't they realize that quality applicants are going to look at that and run away?


Giemsa covered everything well.

Easier yes, but still difficult. Match rate is around 40% for Visa-seeking.

There is reciprocity if you are AAFP certified and want to apply for Canadian licensing (they still require 1 year of supervised practice.. Very stupid rule I'd say).
 
You can write EE in many countries outside of Canada...I did not have to state my country of citizenship when I registered, only my country of birth. Please see
https://www.mcc.ca/en/IMGs.shtml

QE1 ect are written in Canada only.
 
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In other news...


Saskatchewan is recruiting doctors from India...I don't think these doctors are Canadian citizens yet... as it goes in Western Canada if u can get a job u can get PR status.

http://www.gov.sk.ca/news?newsId=e3bc2d2c-312f-4775-baf5-dd853403a978

Home/About Government/News Releases/December 2012/PHYSICIAN RECRUITMENT FROM INDIA LOOKS PROMISING - CORRECTION Jan. 17, 2013

NEWS RELEASE - DECEMBER 13, 2012
PHYSICIAN RECRUITMENT FROM INDIA LOOKS PROMISING - CORRECTION Jan. 17, 2013

Boosts Province's Ongoing Efforts to Stabilize Physician Workforce
The province is a step closer to recruiting family physicians from India. A Saskatchewan delegation recently returned from a first-ever recruitment mission to the country.
Saskdocs (the Physician Recruitment Agency of Saskatchewan), along with a physician and a health region representative, met with 440 physicians from India interested in living and working in Saskatchewan.
"The Physician Recruitment Trip to India was an initiative aimed at increasing the number of physicians working in Saskatchewan," Health Minister Dustin Duncan said. "These professionals are looking to work outside their country and many are willing to practice in our rural and remote settings. I'm very pleased that so many are interested in Saskatchewan and I look forward to these qualified professionals working with our home-grown Saskatchewan physicians to provide medical services to the people of Saskatchewan."
The expansion of the Saskatchewan International Physician Practice Assessment (SIPPA) program in May 2012 opened up opportunities to recruit physicians from a wider range of countries, giving saskdocs this unique opportunity to travel to India and meet with physicians face-to-face. The delegation held educational sessions in Delhi, Chandigarh, Mumbai and Chennai from November 16 to 30.
"We travelled to India expecting that interest would be high among those who were thinking about moving here to practice medicine and we were very happy with the response," saskdocs CEO Ed Mantler said. "We intend to follow up with every doctor that we met in India to discuss their interest and assess their qualifications."
The November trip was the first phase of the India campaign. The second phase, scheduled for June 2013, will see many of the delegation's initial members return to India to offer contracts to those physicians who are eligible for licensure and assessment in Saskatchewan.
"In order to provide first-class medical services to the people of Saskatchewan, we must continue to recruit internationally," Mantler said. "International medical graduates are essential to our medical system and work fluidly in concert with our medical graduates from the University of Saskatchewan and other Canadian institutions. Our physician recruitment efforts will continue to centre on providing a balance of international medical graduates as well as Saskatchewan and Canadian trained physicians."
The recent mission to India has also generated a significant amount of interest from international medical graduates living in Saskatchewan or other provinces in Canada who are interested in practising medicine here. Any physician interested in practising in Saskatchewan is encouraged to visit the saskdocs website at www.saskdocs.ca or send an email to [email protected].
 
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In other news...

I stand corrected.

As for recruiting from India for SK, what guarantee do they have that those docs wont leave after 3 years? of mandatory service to head off to highly saturated areas like the GTA or Vancouver? Same situation in the USA where they give J1 waivers for people to work in underserved areas. What happens? They leave to highly saturated markets after their contract expires.
 
It is true many doctors leave. But if they leave they must ensure that the provincial government in the next province is wiling to hire them. For some specialties this is not a problem, for other specialties it is. There are a lot of factors, which I don't fully understand that go into determining where a doctor can work in Canada. Here is another article that may shed some light on the situation

SOURCE:
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/ne...hile-one-in-six-doctors-cant-find-a-job-study


MD training, public demand for docs don't match: study


Tom Blackwell
Sunday, Jan. 6, 2013

Twice the number of pediatric neurologists were being taught as needed, for instance, yet half as many neonatologists &#8212; the doctors who treat premature and sick newborns &#8212; are being trained as hospitals are expected to require. Getty/Thinkstock.

Medical schools across Canada are training far too many doctors for some pediatric specialities &#8212; but failing to produce enough in other key areas of child health care, concludes a new study that starkly illustrates the surprising disconnect between physician education and real-world demands.

The findings are symptomatic of an "astonishing" problem that has left many freshly minted doctors unemployed, even as patients continue to face long wait lists in some areas, says an official with the national body that oversees specialty accreditation.

The authors of the new study, including heads of university pediatric departments, compared the number of medical graduates training in various pediatric sub-specialties with the projected demand in those areas. There was a close match in just one of 16 sub-specialites.

Twice the number of pediatric neurologists were being taught as needed, for instance, yet half as many neonatologists &#8212; the doctors who treat premature and sick newborns &#8212; are being trained as hospitals are expected to require.

While cautioning that the results were based on projections of demand and are not definitive, the researchers call it the first attempt to gauge how well pediatric training programs respond to what the system needs.

The findings raise the question of whether medical graduates should be encouraged to choose specialties based on projected needs, rather than "personal passion for a particular area," they say.

University administrators "have a social and moral responsibility to guide the future deployment of pediatricians based on the precise health care needs of this vulnerable population," the paper, just published in the journal Pediatrics and Child Health. "It is neither ethically or fiscally responsible to train individuals without knowledge of workforce requirements."

Their conclusions emerge as many newly graduated Canadian physicians continue to face what would have seemed like an unheard-of problem just a few years ago &#8212; the prospect of not being able to find a job.


The findings raise the question of whether medical graduates should be encouraged to choose specialties based on projected needs, rather than "personal passion for a particular area," researchers say. Getty/Thinkstock

Surveys by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons indicate that one in six doctors just finished their residencies &#8212; training periods of two to five years following medical school &#8212; cannot find a position, said Danielle Fréchette, head of the college's health policy department. While some physicians &#8212; like family doctors and psychiatrists &#8212; can simply hang out a shingle and start billing medicare, surgeons and others who work with expensive equipment and support staff usually must find a position with a hospital or health region.

Research by the college &#8212; which certifies specialists in Canada &#8212; indicates there is unemployment or underemployment in 13 specialties, including cardiac surgery, neurosurgery, plastic surgery, orthopedic surgery, otolaryngology, urology, gastroenterology, adult neurology, dermatology, general surgery, ophthalmology, pediatric infectious diseases and radiation oncology.

The reasons are complex, but in at least two specialties &#8212; cardiac surgery and neurosurgery &#8212; the number of trainees has not been reduced in tandem with the shrinking demand for the specialists, said Ms. Fréchette. Yet she notes that waiting lists continue to be a problem; although there is reputed to be a glut of orthopedic surgeons, she has been forced to "waddle about" for a year waiting to get a hip replacement.

"I just find it absolutely astonishing that, with the information technology potential, we can't do a better job," said Ms. Fréchette. "That's because we don't have a commitment, a concerted commitment to try to get this done right."

The Royal college is planning a summit meeting next year to address the problems and find ways to better match residency positions with projected demand, said Ms. Fréchette. The key is to have a national program to monitor health human resources, and cooperation between those who train and those who employ physicians, she said.

The pediatric training study looked at the number of students in various pediatric sub-specialities as of 2009-10, then projected the need for their services based in part on the number of doctors retiring over the ensuing five years at 16 academic hospitals across Canada.

The researchers, including pediatrics professors at the Laval, Queen's and Western Ontario medical schools, admitted the study had a number of limitations, including the fact it did not adjust for changes in population, or pediatricians being trained in other countries.

National Post

[email protected]
 
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As for recruiting from India for SK, what guarantee do they have that those docs wont leave after 3 years? of mandatory service to head off to highly saturated areas like the GTA or Vancouver?

The other provinces are onto this, of course. This route doesn't satisfy the FMRAC requirements, so these individual are not eligible for full licensure.

If you aren't fully licensed (to FMRAC standards), you don't quality for unrestricted mobility.

Some context: http://www.quadrant.net/cpss/standards/message.html
 
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It is true many doctors leave. But if they leave they must

Well beside the possibility of complications regarding licensure, i'm sure FM docs can and would be easily recruitable in any other province. Again. I'm not sure how SK wants to certify docs without having them do residency, which even if they did, how would they find the resources? Seems like a "prospective" study done to display to the public "something is being done".
 
Members don't see this ad :)
To be licensed to practice (say family medicine) in Canada you must:

1) First become a permanent resident / citizen
2) If your medical school is FAIMER listed, you can apply for a residency position - this involves:
a) passing the MCCEE
b) passing language tests
c) potentially passing the NAC-OSCE (another exam)
d) the LMCC Part I isn't required, but wouldn't hurt (so long as you pass)

It is very, very difficult for IMGs to match to a residency position in Canada. The current match rate is <20% and these are usually very recent grads who are Canadian-born (e.g. 20 year olds who went to Ireland to gain their MD degrees). They will have the advantages of being very comfortable with the Canadian social / medical system, and likely will have had an opportunity to do medical electives at Canadian schools (this makes the residency programs much more likely to choose them). Note that this often takes many, many years to complete (if it happens at all), so you'd need some way of supporting yourself in the meantime . . . ergo you hear stories of foreign MDs driving cabs, drywalling condos, etc. etc.

Once you're in residency, you work hard, and then at the end if you are able to pass the national boards (the Royal College or CCFP exams), you would then be able to apply for a license to practice medicine in your specialty.

If you're school isn't FAIMER listed, you would have to:
1) become a Canadian PR / citizen
2) repeat medical school in Canada, and maybe your undergrad degree

Another option is to do residency in the US. It is much easier for IMGs to match in the US than in Canada. An important difference is that you don't necessarily have to be a citizen of the US to do residency there, while you do have to be a PR/citizen of Canada to do residency in Canada. If you were interested in family medicine, I believe (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong), there would be one additional plus: if you obtained and completed a US family medicine residency and passed the US family med boards, those would be recognized in Canada (e.g. you wouldn't have to write the CCF

PS - Is that saskdoc website for real? That's the provincial physician recruitment site? That's truly pathetic. Don't they realize that quality applicants are going to look at that and run away?

i was told that there is a different route to take
This is by
1- Taking the MCCEE
2- Passing the required english language proficiency
3- Applying for a job as a family physician following a 3 month assessment period
4- working as a family physician until establishing a PR
5- taking the Q1
6- applying for carms

is this realistic or is it out of the question ?
 
i was told that there is a different route to take
This is by
1- Taking the MCCEE
2- Passing the required english language proficiency
3- Applying for a job as a family physician following a 3 month assessment period
4- working as a family physician until establishing a PR
5- taking the Q1
6- applying for carms

is this realistic or is it out of the question ?

Without doing a residency? How?
 
Look, if you want to come to Canada as an IMG who hasn't done post-grad training at home and you don't have permanent residency, forget it.

You can't work as a doctor in Canada and so you need to do something else to survive. After you get your permanent residency and are eligible to apply, no residency program will want you because you are "too many years out of medical school". Its a catch-22 you can't win.

Best option is the USA.
 
Look, if you want to come to Canada as an IMG who hasn't done post-grad training at home and you don't have permanent residency, forget it.

You can't work as a doctor in Canada and so you need to do something else to survive. After you get your permanent residency and are eligible to apply, no residency program will want you because you are "too many years out of medical school". Its a catch-22 you can't win.

Best option is the USA.

please check this out ... http://www.cpsa.ab.ca/libraries/pro_registration/Family_Medicine_Practice_Flow_Chart.pdf?sfvrsn=2

this is a flow chart showing a more or less crude heads up on how to approach the goal of practicing in canada ,,,http://www.cpsa.ab.ca/Services/Regi...endent-practice-including-locums#Requirements
 
i was told that there is a different route to take
This is by
1- Taking the MCCEE
2- Passing the required english language proficiency
3- Applying for a job as a family physician following a 3 month assessment period
4- working as a family physician until establishing a PR
5- taking the Q1
6- applying for carms

is this realistic or is it out of the question ?

Plus I'd like to add that my post internship experience includes
- 2 months psychiatry
- 8 months community based medicine
- 1 year medical intensive care unit
- 1 year emergency medicine
 
well thats why i said if you haven't done post-grad training at home. If you have then it changes everything. Yes, just follow what they say. Look Alberta wants doctors, if they don't have to spend money training them. You had medical school and post-grad training at home, if you can apply for the LMCC accreditation then yes you can practice. But if you don't have post-graduate training and your not a perm resident then you have almost no hope of getting a residency in Canada.
 
Plus I'd like to add that my post internship experience includes
- 2 months psychiatry
- 8 months community based medicine
- 1 year medical intensive care unit
- 1 year emergency medicine

You'll need

1) the MCCEE

and

2) successful completion of a postgraduate program of medical training of at least 24 months duration outside of Canada containing four months of community-based primary care and a minimum of eight weeks each of three of the following: Paediatrics, Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Surgery, and Internal Medicine, with the remainder of the training intended to prepare one for General/Family practice (a one-year internship followed by training in a specialty other than Family Medicine does not satisfy this requirement)

or

successful completion of a postgraduate training program recognized by the College of Family Physicians of Canada

http://www.cpsa.ab.ca/Services/Registration_Department/Alberta_Medical_Licence.aspx

Also check out: http://www.aimg.ca

Also, make sure to check out less desirable provinces (NB, SK, all the territories) - they may be willing to make exceptions in licensing to fill a rural / remote job.
 
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well thats why i said if you haven't done post-grad training at home. If you have then it changes everything. Yes, just follow what they say. Look Alberta wants doctors, if they don't have to spend money training them. You had medical school and post-grad training at home, if you can apply for the LMCC accreditation then yes you can practice. But if you don't have post-graduate training and your not a perm resident then you have almost no hope of getting a residency in Canada.

but if i do practice as a family physician until i get a PR , then apply for carms ? would that work ????
would my practice as a family physician make my chance stronger or weaker if i apply to carms ??
 
If you're able to practice in Canada, why would you then choose to apply for a residency position through carms?
 
If you're able to practice in Canada, why would you then choose to apply for a residency position through carms?

because i have a dream of becoming a specialist in a certain field
 
but if i do practice as a family physician until i get a PR , then apply for carms ? would that work ????
would my practice as a family physician make my chance stronger or weaker if i apply to carms ??

You cant practice in canada unless you did your residency in canada or in the states. And you need your PR in order to be able to apply for carms. So your best bet is to get the PR first ( I dont know how you would but you cant work unless you get your work visa and you cant work as a physician either until you get licensed in canada) then apply for carms. As an img if you dont have strong letter of recommendations from canadian physicians your chances are slim.
 
You cant practice in canada unless you did your residency in canada or in the states.

That is absolutely not true, though it isn't the norm either. I have, however, personally worked with multiple staff anesthetists who trained in Germany.
 
but if i do practice as a family physician until i get a PR , then apply for carms ? would that work ????
would my practice as a family physician make my chance stronger or weaker if i apply to carms ??

I'm not sure how you're thinking of applying to CaRMS without it.
Even if you somehow do manage to get licensed and work in family med in Canada, your chances at another residency are pretty nil. Second residencies even for Canadian-trained docs are rare, in most cases you'll get one shot at the can. Even more so for competitive specialties.
 
Messi, what I can advise you is the following:

Save money. Get experience in Libya and/or Get training in a country whose jurisdiction is recognized in Canada.

If you want to work in Canada, you will need PR (Permanent Residency). It is highly important that you apply via the government website cic.gc.ca instead of immigrant lawyers. Lawyers can clock up to being quite expensive and unhelpful to clients once they land.
You will need to apply as a Federal Skilled Worker and go through the requirements. This of course costs. You would need at least $1500 for different aspects of the permanent residency application.
To start work, you have 2 main avenues:

1. Carms.ca and PCRC
2. Accreditation from years of training abroad which grants you a license to work in Canada

Carms is the matching service (which I believe may have been discussed above). You will need to go through the PCRC site which is now the physicansapply.ca site. This in itself also costs money. This is the main way Canadians and IMGs apply for jobs or get 'matched' to job postings. You'll need to read up on all the requirements.

Accreditation usually comes when you attend a college which is recognized by Canada's Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons. Their website mentions the 29 training bodies which they recognize to date. If yours is not on their list, you will probably only have option 1 as a means to work in Canada.

From what I've noted, your best bet is to try this when single which allows for flexibility and a means go to places which may be rural but only for a season. This would prevent heartache for you and a family.
 
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