Grew up in poverty, abandoned by parents, got into undergrad Ivy, failed out-->med school?

[lookaprettyflower]

Hello,
My parents immigrated from rural North Africa. Never went to school and punished me for pursuing school (I'm their first daughter). I grew up in poverty and went to a terrible HS (guns/violence). Despite this, I did extremely well, got published, good SAT's, all AP's, etc while working full time at 16. I was so dedicated, but so poor, I walked 16 miles to take my SAT's because nobody could drive me and I had no money for transport. I was screamed at and kicked out for going to my college interviews.
I applied to 19 top uni's , pretty much went down the list of top schools because I had no idea what I was doing.
I got into every one, and got into a really selective research-mentor program at an Ivy.
Failed all my classes 1st semester except one. Probation for 2nd semester, I had no idea what was going on and didn't do well again. Probation on 3rd semester, realized I was bipolar, was put on medication that I was allergic to and had to withdraw for a health leave. Got suspended for 1 year.
Suspension- I was a waitress and homeless and slept in the coatcheck in secret. Counseling under my insurance was crappy. No money to take classes, no guidance to do anything, pretty much focused on staying alive..
Let back in- probation for the next 2 semesters- the purpose of my suspension was to focus on my skills. But I was homeless so that really did not help.
Academic dismissal.
Why did I fail so badly?

• No ****ing idea what I was doing, I had no guidance ( I enrolled into 20 hard science credits my 1st semester, didn't realize my ghetto HS was not enough preparation. College offers prep semester from kids of my background but they said my resume and app was so stellar it looked like I didn't need it)
• I was alone and depressed ( parents abandoned me for pursuing college away from home)
• My peers were so much more prepared. I didn't study in HS because I'm one of those kids that didn't need to, plus my HS was not idea, and so never developed any study skills
• My HS had no resources so I didn't know how to use them in college
• Health: my father is bipolar, he didn't know until now, I'm also bipolar. I did't know until after my suspension, because mental health is a stigma for my parents/they don't understand it/ I didn't know anything about it, onset of it begins at the age that I was doing poorly and played a HUGE role in not being able to handle my semesters even though I had so many issues already

It was just a slippery slope from the start. I am literally a textbook example of a socioeconomically disadvantaged high school student miserably failing an elite uni.
I have a letter that I wrote to myself when I was in 6th grade. I wrote it after I first asked my parents if they were saving up for college for me because I was worried. They said they weren't. I went to the bank the next day and asked about loans. I was 11. The lady laughed and told me to go home. I wrote a letter to myself to read after college. It was a letter outlining the next steps I would take in order to ensure I would get into a top private uni so I could get full aid, so I didn't need my parents, and a bunch of goals. I was supposed to have accomplished them all at this point.
I literally have no idea what to do now. I'm going to transfer into a CC in nyc that's ranked 3rd in the nation and transfer into a 4 year I guess. And maybe post-bacc. But my gpa right now is a 1.9, and I've been on multiple probations, a suspension, and the grand dismissal.
I refuse to give up, but am I being absurd not to move on from my dream? I feel as though I had a terrible start due to reasons I couldn't control , and after understanding what was going on in play (this was after I was suspended and had time to think), I was expected to pull myself up so high. But again the year didn't do anything for my student skills. I did better this semester because I've learned, but not enough to escape dismissal.
I can't see myself doing anything else. I've tried so hard. But every time I step into a hospital or office I just know that being a doctor is the only thing that will make me happy. I know this for sure.
On a side note, since obviously trying to figure things out on my own hasn't worked out, any suggestions on a path I could take? Does my cc--> transfer into 4 year make sense? I barely have any credits since they're either failures or W's (ha). I have some B's and C's but I just wan't to start from scratch. Stuff I'm not aware about?
Any help is so much appreciated <3

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[SOMBound13]

I am so sorry that you've been through so much. I'm disappointed that your Ivy let you down in so many ways. I thought that it would have the advisors and resources to step in before so many missteps, particularly allowing you to take 20 science credits first semester (what advisor signs off on that schedule?)

• College offers prep semester from kids of my background but they said my resume and app was so stellar it looked like I didn't need it)

Another misstep by the Ivy, and then what? They ignored the handwriting on the wall after Fall semester and didn't put you in that "prep semester"?

I'm going to transfer into a CC in nyc that's ranked 3rd in the nation and transfer into a 4 year I guess. And maybe post-bacc. But my gpa right now is a 1.9, and I've been on multiple probations, a suspension, and the grand dismissal.
I refuse to give up, but am I being absurd not to move on from my dream? I feel as though I had a terrible start due to reasons I couldn't control , and after understanding what was going on in play (this was after I was suspended and had time to think), I was expected to pull myself up so high. But again the year didn't do anything for my student skills. I did better this semester because I've learned, but not enough to escape dismissal.
I can't see myself doing anything else. I've tried so hard. But every time I step into a hospital or office I just know that being a doctor is the only thing that will make me happy. I know this for sure.
On a side note, since obviously trying to figure things out on my own hasn't worked out, any suggestions on a path I could take? Does my cc--> transfer into 4 year make sense? I barely have any credits since they're either failures or W's (ha). I have some B's and C's but I just wan't to start from scratch. Stuff I'm not aware about?
Any help is so much appreciated <3

How many years has it been since you left your Ivy? Have you taken ANY courses since?

Is it correct that you're going to start at a CC in the Spring? or next Fall?

What are you planning on taking? Did you receive aid for this or how will it get funded?

Are you 24 or over?

How were you filing for aid when your family disowned you?

 

[MD2BE92]

Your story if entirely true is compelling, but medical school is likely a pipe dream unless you can somehow ace undergrad and knock your MCAT out of the park. That is, if you can get into a reputable school and manage to stay enrolled.

I have a hard time believing that your top Ivy let you slip through the cracks this badly and didn't offer an alternative or counseling after 1st semester or even during...
I would get your psychological status in check by regularly seeing your doc before pursuing anything further

 

[heybubbaa]

.

 

[Doug Underhill]

Are you sure your mental health issues are under control? The road that lies ahead is extremely difficult, even for someone in flawless mental health.

 

[lookaprettyflower]

Your story if entirely true is compelling, but medical school is likely a pipe dream unless you can somehow ace undergrad and knock your MCAT out of the park. That is, if you can get into a reputable school and manage to stay enrolled.

I have a hard time believing that your top Ivy let you slip through the cracks this badly and didn't offer an alternative or counseling after 1st semester or even during...
I would get your psychological status in check by regularly seeing your doc before pursuing anything further

Thanks for your response. Yes, my story is entirely true. And my school has a huge disconnect between the offices that deal with academics and counseling. The academic department dealing with my grades didn't offer counseling at all, and because of how I was raised I didn't know what counseling was, or to be okay seeking it. I was actually coerced into it by a friend. Right now I found great counseling at school, sadly too late, but there is still a huge disconnect at my school. It's really a problem.
I know that I can do well at this point - this semester I got a perfect score in my organic chem and calculus final. But it's not enough to bring my overall GPA up to meet standards or even get fin aid for next year if I wasn't dismissed. :/

 

[lookaprettyflower]

To clarify- my mental stuff is under control, I started good counseling and got on medication after my suspension. Also, this semester I've proven to myself I can do well academically - I got a perfect score in an orgo and calc exam. Also, when I broke down once last year and talked to my bio and stats professor after failing all the first exams, I got over a 95 in both of those finals. So instead of failing my stats and bio last year, I got a B and C. So I also know I can understand material. But it's too late, since even then my grades are decent this semester for the first time, they're not enough to make up for the past and qualify for financial aid or good standing.

 

[lookaprettyflower]

I am so sorry that you've been through so much. I'm disappointed that your Ivy let you down in so many ways. I thought that it would have the advisors and resources to step in before so many missteps, particularly allowing you to take 20 science credits first semester (what advisor signs off on that schedule?)




Another misstep by the Ivy, and then what? They ignored the handwriting on the wall after Fall semester and didn't put you in that "prep semester"?




How many years has it been since you left your Ivy? Have you taken ANY courses since?

Is it correct that you're going to start at a CC in the Spring? or next Fall?

What are you planning on taking? Did you receive aid for this or how will it get funded?

Are you 24 or over?

How were you filing for aid when your family disowned you?

Thank you so much for replying and trying to help me out <3
I just got dismissed. I literally just finished finals.
I'm planning on starting CC next fall, since it's too late to apply to the particular one I'm interested in. Also, I need to work for a bit (my old waitressing job) to afford CC. So no aid. My gpa is blow 2.0 which is a min to get aid.
I have no idea on what I plan on taking, since I just was dismissed. I don't really know how it works. I emailed the CC to find out more. At this point, I just plan on going to CC.
I'm 21 also, and I filed for aid using my parents' tax files. They don't understand anything about college so I just told them I needed their files for stuff. I've always fill out their paperwork ever since I was in elementary school since they don't understand English. Not sure if that was wrong or not but oh well haha.
Thank you

 

[order66.exe]

Retake every class you failed OP and aim for a DO. Your story might be enough to salvage you for MD come application time, but I wouldn't aim for it as a primary goal. I recommend taking the long route and taking only a few courses next semester before diving into full time study. Make sure you're saving money as well via your job since it sound like your situation is not incredibly stable.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

I would say to take things one step at a time. Right now, I would focus on getting a job and making some money so you can afford your first semester at CC. Start with a light courseload, maybe some humanities classes or very basic science before you jump into the heavier prereqs. Just take it slow and start off with classes that you know will boost your GPA so you can start getting financial aid again.

I think your situation is pretty unique... I can't say how medical schools will react to seeing someone get dismissed from an Ivy for academic reasons. Obviously, that's a pretty big mark against you. But what you do have going for you is that you were a great student in high school and you did start to improve your grades right before you were dismissed. If you can get back to a high level of achievement, perhaps you can convince medical schools that what happened in college was just a hiccup--the side effect of not being fully prepared to enter into college with little family/institutional support.

Just my personal opinion, OP, but I think you can do this! You'll need to make a pretty impressive comeback, though, and it won't be easy. Just take it one day at a time and make sure you're doing what you need to have good mental health.

 

[MD2BE92]

Retake every class you failed OP and aim for a DO. Your story might be enough to salvage you for MD come application time, but I wouldn't aim for it as a primary goal.

OP, I agree mostly with this^
Although, I wouldnt even think about medical school right now. You're just getting your feet back under you as we speak. If it were me I would do whatever is necessary to get a job and make enough money to take classes PT perhaps at CC, even if they're just gen-eds (this would save you the hassle of explaining pre-reqs from a CC later with your record)

Ease your way back intro school once you're financially and mentally stable. If you can raise your gpa up enough and gain entrance into a traditional 4 yr undergrad then maybe you can qualify for fin aid.
Until you reach this stage I would focus on the basics. Then worry about ECs and shadowing and MCAT. For now put yourself and your health first, whatever it takes

 

[SOMBound13]

You can't "start from scratch". You college history will always be there. If you retake, then DO school will replace, but MD schools will not (they'll just avg the two grades ....so an F with an A becomes a C average).

kicked out for going to my college interviews

Was this for a short time while you were in high school?

So what is the current situation with your parents? How often do you see them?

What is their objection to you getting an education?

Some of your story is confusing.

You're from N.Africa. I don't understand a couple of things. How do people immigrate here to live "in poverty". When people legally come to live in this country, (and at some point, get their green card), they have to show that they can support themselves OR they must have a US sponsor who has committed to financially support them. The US has these req'ts so that it's not bringing people in who will be homeless/hungry, since non-citizens/non-green card residents don't qualify for welfare (and the country doesn't want to bring in more people who will just go right on welfare.) How was your family able to immigrate here in poverty?

Are you a URM? If so, that may end up being your saving grace in the future.

Are you a US Citizen or Green Card Permanent Resident?

Where will you be living now that you've left school? You've lost your school-provided healthcare, so will you have healthcare thru your waitressing job? I hope so, so that you're able to continue treatment.


So, your plan is to work and save (and live where?), and then start at a CC in the fall. If you do so, I suggest that you START SLOW. One hard science class and a couple GE classes.

 

[DokterMom]

Thanks for your response. Yes, my story is entirely true. And my school has a huge disconnect between the offices that deal with academics and counseling. The academic department dealing with my grades didn't offer counseling at all, and because of how I was raised I didn't know what counseling was, or to be okay seeking it. I was actually coerced into it by a friend. Right now I found great counseling at school, sadly too late, but there is still a huge disconnect at my school. It's really a problem.
I know that I can do well at this point - this semester I got a perfect score in my organic chem and calculus final. But it's not enough to bring my overall GPA up to meet standards or even get fin aid for next year if I wasn't dismissed. :/

To clarify- my mental stuff is under control, I started good counseling and got on medication after my suspension. Also, this semester I've proven to myself I can do well academically - I got a perfect score in an orgo and calc exam. Also, when I broke down once last year and talked to my bio and stats professor after failing all the first exams, I got over a 95 in both of those finals. So instead of failing my stats and bio last year, I got a B and C. So I also know I can understand material. But it's too late, since even then my grades are decent this semester for the first time, they're not enough to make up for the past and qualify for financial aid or good standing.

Can you ask your counselor at the counseling center to intercede on your behalf academically? Your Ivy school truly doesn't want you to fail out, as yours is the kind of story they like to pull out come fund-raising time. You've proved yourself capable of doing the work academically if you get the psych and 'how to' supports you need to succeed. Yours really is a textbook story on how a very bright and talented kid who doesn't 'know the game' can fail despite having the ability to succeed.

Then find yourself a mentor at school. Someone who truly DOES know the game and is willing to help you navigate it. I'm betting on you --

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

How do people immigrate here to live "in poverty"

Lots of people come to this country and end up living in poverty, whether they're documented or undocumented. What it says on a piece of paper, in terms of sponsorship and things like that, doesn't always translate into reality. If OP's family came from poverty in another country, it's kind of absurd to expect that they would suddenly be well-off here. And they wouldn't have to be destitute to not be able to afford college. There are so many factors to consider here, like family size, what their parents do for work, where they live, English language proficiency, etc. Also, for whatever reason, OP's family isn't exactly pro-college so perhaps they just didn't want to allocate funds for this.

Outside of the fact that OP's citizenship status may affect what schools they can apply to, I'm not sure how the rest of this really matters...

 

[lookaprettyflower]

You can't "start from scratch". You college history will always be there. If you retake, then DO school will replace, but MD schools will not (they'll just avg the two grades ....so an F with an A becomes a C average).



Was this for a short time while you were in high school?

So what is the current situation with your parents? How often do you see them?

What is their objection to you getting an education?

Some of your story is confusing.

You're from N.Africa. I don't understand a couple of things. How do people immigrate here to live "in poverty". When people legally come to live in this country, (and at some point, get their green card), they have to show that they can support themselves OR they must have a US sponsor who has committed to financially support them. The US has these req'ts so that it's not bringing people in who will be homeless/hungry, since non-citizens/non-green card residents don't qualify for welfare (and the country doesn't want to bring in more people who will just go right on welfare.) How was your family able to immigrate here in poverty?

Are you a URM? If so, that may end up being your saving grace in the future.

Are you a US Citizen or Green Card Permanent Resident?

Where will you be living now that you've left school? You've lost your school-provided healthcare, so will you have healthcare thru your waitressing job? I hope so, so that you're able to continue treatment.


So, your plan is to work and save (and live where?), and then start at a CC in the fall. If you do so, I suggest that you START SLOW. One hard science class and a couple GE classes.

Thanks so much for all these questions in trying to help again
Kicked out for interviews was for a short time, I stayed with my highschool boyfriend during that event.
Right now, after not seeing my parents and being away for so long, there is minimal communication starting. They don't hate me anymore and they have become a tiny bit more modernized after having to raise two other kids after me and they've been more exposed to the idea of college and that it's normal.
So my dad came here as a noncitizen ages ago and got citizenship through a previous marriage with an American woman before meeting my mom. But he was a menial worker in the kitchen of a restaurant and I guess the woman had income to qualify. I think the rules were less strict back then, but I don't really know since I don't speak to him that much. He married my mom, she moved to the US from N. Africa and I was born here, so I'm a citizen. He was uneducated so he had a kitchen job most of my life, didn't pursue his education to get a better job because he decided to have me before he had a stable income, so I was raised in poverty that way. My mom didn't get a job because she was raising me, no money for childcare and the idea of childcare was foreign to her coming from where she came from.
Yeah, I'm an URM female. At least I have that.....
Their objection to college is based on a couple of things. I knew I had to be really involved in highschool, play sports, compete in stuff, etc to be well rounded. They hated when I wasn't home so were super against me doing anything but going to school and coming straight back. They didn't speak to me for a bit after I got my first job and were the reason I was fired from it (they kept coming in the store to check on me). This was mostly my dad since he came from a reaaaalllly rural place where women literally don't do anything and it's shameful to be as independent and out there like a "male". He didn't think it was ok I was playing sports and doing all these things and stuff and thought I was doing evil things at my clubs instead of being home like a good girl. So I had a pretty bad relationship with them from ages ago, deviating from his vision of pretty much raising a nun. They also didn't understand that it was normal to go away for school, especially if it's a good school (they didn't know the difference btw community college and an Ivy). So going away from school as a female alone was pretty embarrassing to them, since their friends' daughters went to cc near home and got married (raised in a minority community of people from my background). It wasn't normal to them.
They've calmed down a bit/given up on trying to "get me to see the way". My dad is a lot better after getting mental help. He turned to intense religion when he was struggling. That was his education.
As for future living, they would probably be secretly happy knowing I had to finally come home and that they were "right". Also, my mom misses me at this point and my dad is better because of his medication so I would probably be able to live with them, at least until they start to revert to their old ways.
Luckily enough my healthcare lasts till August 2016!! woo! My healthcare went through when I was suspended since I had taken out a loan to pay for it and it lasts one year. So I paid for a year through student loan before this semester started. I also have insurance through my parents which is government provided, although coverage is limited to the worst healthcare haha.
Yep my plan is to live back with my parents because I can now -- if not, I have an emergency fund for 6 mo rent that I've kept since I've started working bc I'm aware my life is unstable--go to the waitressing job I had when I was suspended, enroll in CC fall.

 

[dreamadream]

I thought I had it worst...if you read my other thread "I'm on the verge of giving up" I explain my upcoming, but this my friend...this takes the cake.

 

[lookaprettyflower]

Can you ask your counselor at the counseling center to intercede on your behalf academically? Your Ivy school truly doesn't want you to fail out, as yours is the kind of story they like to pull out come fund-raising time. You've proved yourself capable of doing the work academically if you get the psych and 'how to' supports you need to succeed. Yours really is a textbook story on how a very bright and talented kid who doesn't 'know the game' can fail despite having the ability to succeed.

Then find yourself a mentor at school. Someone who truly DOES know the game and is willing to help you navigate it. I'm betting on you --

Hello, thanks for your input!
I was going to be dismissed already, since I was on probation my first two semesters. I found a mentor my 3rd semester, which is when I withdrew because I was prescribed medication after I stared counseling that nearly led to Johnson's Syndrome but I caught it in time. After this health leave, they wanted to dismiss me, but I barely got out of that. My suspension was pointless since I didn't have the ability to focus on myself since I was literally sleeping in the coatcheck at work and trying to feed myself daily and just waiting for the suspension to be over. So my semester right after that wasn't stellar, they expected a lot but really didn't care even after I explained I was going to be homeless if I was suspended. This semester is extreme improvement but there is no way to get over the financial aid gpa requirement for next semester (My mentor also gave me a fin aid appeal for this current semester) or to have academic standing since I was on "final probation". I brought my semester GPA up but not my cumulative yet :/ I've gone through every appeal at this point. Thank you for betting on me

 

[lookaprettyflower]

I thought I had it worst...if you read my other thread "I'm on the verge of giving up" I explain my upcoming, but this my friend...this takes the cake.

Haha! Maybe I should write a book about this and just fund my education through that XD Goodluck to you!

 

[deleted718115]

I suggest you get a 2nd bachelor degree that will enable you to work in some high-demand career in case med school application doesn't work out for you.

 

[SOMBound13]

If OP's family came from poverty in another country, it's kind of absurd to expect that they would suddenly be well-off here

I never expected that her family or any family from another country would suddenly, or ever, be well-off here.

As for future living, they would probably be secretly happy knowing I had to finally come home and that they were "right". Also, my mom misses me at this point and my dad is better because of his medication so I would probably be able to live with them, at least until they start to revert to their old ways.
Luckily enough my healthcare lasts till August 2016!! woo! My healthcare went through when I was suspended since I had taken out a loan to pay for it and it lasts one year. So I paid for a year through student loan before this semester started. I also have insurance through my parents which is government provided, although coverage is limited to the worst healthcare haha.
Yep my plan is to live back with my parents because I can now -- if not, I have an emergency fund for 6 mo rent that I've kept since I've started working bc I'm aware my life is unstable--go to the waitressing job I had when I was suspended, enroll in CC fall.

If you can live at home while going to the CC, it would be good to be able to save that emergency fund. You're likely going to need that at some time during your education.


I don't know if the suggestion about having your counselor intercede for you meant getting you back into your Ivy school. It sounds like that is the suggestion. While your Ivy certainly does not want students failing, do you know if this recent dismissal is "set in stone"? Is there an appeals process? Have you looked into that? If your therapist can help with that, would you be willing to pursue that?

Unless there is more to this story, it does sound like your Ivy did a poor job with your situation. Is this Cornell?

 

[SOMBound13]

I suggest you get a 2nd bachelor degree that will enable you to work in some high-demand career in case med school application doesn't work out for you.

?

A second bachelors degree? Why? She doesn't have the first one.

 

[dreamadream]

Hello, thanks for your input!
I was going to be dismissed already, since I was on probation my first two semesters. I found a mentor my 3rd semester, which is when I withdrew because I was prescribed medication after I stared counseling that nearly led to Johnson's Syndrome but I caught it in time. After this health leave, they wanted to dismiss me, but I barely got out of that. My suspension was pointless since I didn't have the ability to focus on myself since I was literally sleeping in the coatcheck at work and trying to feed myself daily and just waiting for the suspension to be over. So my semester right after that wasn't stellar, they expected a lot but really didn't care even after I explained I was going to be homeless if I was suspended. This semester is extreme improvement but there is no way to get over the financial aid gpa requirement for next semester (My mentor also gave me a fin aid appeal for this current semester) or to have academic standing since I was on "final probation". I brought my semester GPA up but not my cumulative yet :/ I've gone through every appeal at this point. Thank you for betting on me

I had a 0.75 GPA my first semester I only took a seminar class which I received a B in, it was one worth 1 credits. I also signed up for a winter class(a health class) thought financial aid didn't pay for winter sessions so I didn't even bother to drop the class. I received an F for a class I never knew was paid for(also putting me in jeopardy with financial aid). This spring I managed to bring my GPA up to a 1.6(If I got .1 below this GPA, I would have been on academic probation), received a D in psyc, a C in English, and a B in sociology. Now I'm on my way to taking my finals. In my communications class I'll likely received a B, but I'm aiming for an A with my final. In ethics...I just don't know, this is the worst professor I've ever had. He gave everyone a C for out midterm grade. So I'm guessing I'll receive a B or C, because I'm doing extra credit. So far I have a C in college algebra which I have to an A on my final for a B, plus I have extra credit. So I'll probably receive a high B. In English I received a B- on my first essay, a A- on my second, and I have to turn in my last essay which will probably be an A. It's on artificial intelligence so I know I'll kill this one(I'm super scientific so yeah). Hopefully I get a 2.5 or above this semester. And I'll be taking that health class this winter so that F can change my GPA maybe to a 2.8-3.0. Just to add this in, I almost lost my financial aid this semester also, but my appeal was accepted. I said my mother has epilepsy and I'm a caregiver, showed then her hospital documents and immediately got reinstated.

 

[Affiche]

@lookaprettyflower what exactly is your relationship with your parents right now?
If you're independent from them financially and aren't really in contact with them, you can file as estranged from them and become an independent student for FAFSA purposes, which will provide you with enough grants and government loans (low interest that doesn't accumulate during school) to cover your tuition and living expenses while you're a student.

I dealt with homelessness in high school and into college, but once I came clean to my university about my situation they were incredibly supportive and helped me tremendously in getting through college. There should be emergency funds for students facing this level of poverty, free tutoring and mentorship to provide academic guidance. If you were only recently dismissed, try to appeal it and explain your situation in full. Find someone to advocate for you. The worst they can do is say no, and then you're exactly where you are now anyway.

For what it's worth, I'm applying right now and the schools that I've applied to have been overwhelmingly supportive of me and receptive to my story. I ended up cancelling over half the interviews I received because I had too many, including an ivy league, and received a full-tuition scholarship to one of my favorite schools. I do not have amazing numbers by any means, just a lot of drive. This doesn't have to be the end for you at all.

 

[DokterMom]

Hello, thanks for your input!
I was going to be dismissed already, since I was on probation my first two semesters. I found a mentor my 3rd semester, which is when I withdrew because I was prescribed medication after I stared counseling that nearly led to Johnson's Syndrome but I caught it in time. After this health leave, they wanted to dismiss me, but I barely got out of that. My suspension was pointless since I didn't have the ability to focus on myself since I was literally sleeping in the coatcheck at work and trying to feed myself daily and just waiting for the suspension to be over. So my semester right after that wasn't stellar, they expected a lot but really didn't care even after I explained I was going to be homeless if I was suspended. This semester is extreme improvement but there is no way to get over the financial aid gpa requirement for next semester (My mentor also gave me a fin aid appeal for this current semester) or to have academic standing since I was on "final probation". I brought my semester GPA up but not my cumulative yet :/ I've gone through every appeal at this point. Thank you for betting on me

Don't give up on your uni yet -- Do you know any influential alum's? (You may be able to find some useful info online) Any powerful politicians that attended this school? What about your professors? The ones where you scored so extremely well on your finals? Could you talk openly and honestly with any of them? Ask them to help you?

Before you decide to leave, try everything possible to secure your way back - to lay out a specific path where if you do this, your school will let you back in and restore your scholarship. Point to your extreme academic improvement once you got your medical conditions and living situations under control. Ask how you can prove to them that you're up to the task and worthy of their taking one more chance on you. If it comes to it, ask your uni if they have any affiliations with nearby CC's, and if that means you're going to waitress for a living, waitress there. (My concern is that if you go back home, you'd be going back to an environment that will hold you back rather than helping you succeed.)

 

[SOMBound13]

file as estranged from them and become an independent student for FAFSA purposes, which will provide you with enough grants and government loans (low interest that doesn't accumulate during school) to cover your tuition and living expense

Not really. At this point, at age 21, she can't file as "estranged" from her parents. If that had happened before the year of majority, then that would be possible. If every 18+ year old could claim estrangement from parents, then parents would be stopping support for all at 18 just so that their children could get government grants.

The system is set up the way it is, dependent for undergrad until 24, so to avoid the above issue and having to hand out Pell Grants to everyone over 18. Exceptions are: veteran, bachelors degree earned, married, having a child that you provide more than 50% of support.

Abandonment/estrangement must occur before age of majority for FAFSA purposes. Unless this student can show proof of parental abuse, parents are incarcerated, etc, she's dependent for FAFSA purposes.


Also, being independent as an undergrad does not "provide you with enough grants and gov't loans" to cover tuition and living expenses in most cases. A maximum Pell Grant is about $5700. An independent federal student loan for undergrad (freshman) is 9500....(soph) 10,500. In most cases, roughly $15k will not cover tuition and living expenses. If this student is earning a decent amount of money as a waitress, then she may not qualify for much of a Pell Grant.

Either way, this student can't be considered Independent unless she could show proof of abuse. there is almost no way that a student who has filed FAFSA within the last 12 months using her parents info will be considered independent, unless one of the above situations is met.

 

[Affiche]

Not really. At this point, at age 21, she can't file as "estranged" from her parents. If that had happened before the year of majority, then that would be possible. If every 18+ year old could claim estrangement from parents, then parents would be stopping support for all at 18 just so that their children could get government grants.

The system is set up the way it is, dependent for undergrad until 24, so to avoid the above issue and having to hand out Pell Grants to everyone over 18. Exceptions are: veteran, bachelors degree earned, married, having a child that you provide more than 50% of support.

Abandonment/estrangement must occur before age of majority for FAFSA purposes. Unless this student can show proof of parental abuse, she's dependent for FAFSA purposes.


Also, being independent as an undergrad does not "provide you with enough grants and gov't loans" to cover tuition and living expenses in most cases. A maximum Pell Grant is about $5700. An independent federal student loan for undergrad (freshman) is 9500....(soph) 10,500. In most cases, roughly $15k will not cover tuition and living expenses. If this student is earning a decent amount of money as a waitress, then she may not qualify for much of a Pell Grant.

Either way, this student can't be considered Independent unless she could show proof of abuse.

Erm...having gone through the process of proving estrangement I can tell you that's not true. Being absent or neglectful is sufficient for estrangement. Age doesn't matter, length of estrangement does (typically you need to be estranged for at least 1 year). Not all parents will just stop supporting their 18 year olds because it requires that the parents have absolutely no financial or personal ties to their child, that they abandon them.

If you're estranged from your parents your family size becomes 1. While living in poverty your EFC becomes 0, and your financial aid package meets your CoA. Once the Pell Grant is maxed out you have other grants and subsidized and unsubsidized student loans added to your aid package to meet the CoA, which includes the school's budgeted tuition + living expenses. Loan amounts are larger for independent students than for dependent students for this reason.

 

[SOMBound13]

Once the Pell Grant is maxed out you have subsidized and unsubsidized student loans added to your aid package to meet the CoA, which includes the school's budgeted tuition + living expenses. Loan amounts are larger for independent students than for dependent students for this reason.

I included the "independent" larger loan amounts in my post. Those amounts often do NOT meet COA after Pell because they aren't large enough to do so.

For instance, if an independent student transfers to a univ as a junior, and the school has a COA of $28k, then a $5700 Pell and an $11,500 student loan will not cover the COA. Even if the student is also given $2500 in WS. My parent is a Financial Aid officer, so I'm very familiar with this entire process.

You were able to provide evidence that you were homeless while in high school. That is an assured way to get declared Independent for FAFSA purposes.

yourfinancial aid package meets your CoA.

ONLY at schools that promise to "meet need". Most colleges in the US are unable to "meet need" so they gap.

 

[Affiche]

I included the "independent" larger loan amounts in my post. Those amounts often do NOT meet COA after Pell because they aren't large enough to do so.

For instance, if an independent student transfers to a univ as a junior, and the school has a COA of $28k, then a $5700 Pell and an $11,500 student loan will not cover the COA. Even if the student is also given $2500 in WS. My parent is a Financial Aid officer, so I'm very familiar with this entire process.

You were able to provide evidence that you were homeless while in high school. That is an assured way to get declared Independent for FAFSA purposes.

No, actually I wasn't able to provide evidence that I was homeless while in high school. I secured independent status after I turned 18 via a dependency override by filing as estranged.

If your EFC is 0 then by definition your expected contribution is 0. Once your financial aid package is maxed out by the Pell Grant and gov't loans (including the Perkins loan, which is additional loan money) it's supplemented with grants to cover the remaining balance. That's the whole point of having an Expected Family Contribution. Some schools won't meet 100% of the need but all of the undergraduate schools that I applied to met 100% of my CoA, so I don't think that's common at all. Edit: the school that I matriculated at doesn't promise to "meet need" either, but they did. Universities, especially ivy league ones, have large funds available for need-based aid.

 

[lookaprettyflower]

I never expected that her family or any family from another country would suddenly, or ever, be well-off here.





If you can live at home while going to the CC, it would be good to be able to save that emergency fund. You're likely going to need that at some time during your education.


I don't know if the suggestion about having your counselor intercede for you meant getting you back into your Ivy school. It sounds like that is the suggestion. While your Ivy certainly does not want students failing, do you know if this recent dismissal is "set in stone"? Is there an appeals process? Have you looked into that? If your therapist can help with that, would you be willing to pursue that?

Unless there is more to this story, it does sound like your Ivy did a poor job with your situation. Is this Cornell?

Yes, it is actually Cornell. How did you know??!
As far as I know there is no appeal and this is final. However I will look into that. But I also feel as though it would look better to do the CC-transfer route... at this point all of my friends that started with me have graduated so that's a sad feeling and I feel like I've literally been here for ages. But aside from my feelings, I don't know if a total rebound from CC-transfer would look worse (i think it would look better?) than if I stayed here and improved. I mean I feel like it would look more impressive rather than trying to improve my credentials and gpa here in the next 2 years.. but I don't know what would be best if that situation were plausible. I could increase my gpa by taking a single summer course that costs 3-4k, do well, and increase my gpa to above 2.0 to get aid for fall for example. But again I'm pretty sure this is final :/ I will look into it for sure though.

 

[SOMBound13]

No, actually I wasn't able to provide evidence that I was homeless while in high school. I secured independent status after I turned 18 via a dependency override by filing as estranged.

If your EFC is 0 then by definition your expected contribution is 0. Once your financial aid package is maxed out by the Pell Grant and gov't loans (including the Perkins loan, which is additional loan money) it's supplemented with grants to cover the remaining balance. That's the whole point of having an Expected Family Contribution. Some schools won't meet 100% of the need but all of the undergraduate schools that I applied to met 100% of my CoA, so I don't think that's common at all.

Actually it is uncommon for schools to meet 100% of need.


US News quote about colleges that "meet need".

Of the 1,136 institutions that submitted financial need data to U.S. News, 62 of them claim they cover full need.

And, sadly, that's not what EFC really means...it's a misnnomer used by the feds. Expected Family Contribution essentially means nothing. If you attended schools that met need with a 0 EFC, then you may have gone to schools that used CSS Profile (did you?) or you went to a UC or similar.


And, yes, you were able to get declared independent after age 18 because you were homeless in high school. And, YES, that was given to you AFTER you turned 18....BECAUSE you were able to provide evidence that you were homeless before 18.

That is a HUGE difference. A student cannot just claim estrangement after the age of majority, unless the abandonent or homelessness occurred before age 18. The decision for the student to be independent is often made AFTER age 18, but the situation had to occur before 18....except for the few exceptions already mentioned.


There are no more Perkins loans after this year.

The "supplementing with grants" other than Pell and SEOG is only done at univ that have their OWN funds to give, and most do not.


Here is an example of an Independent student at Penn State with a 0 EFC. PSU is a very fine univ in our country, I'm sure you'd agree. Look at the HUGE gap that is given to a poor person.

 

[SOMBound13]

Yes, it is actually Cornell. How did you know??!


As far as I know there is no appeal and this is final. However I will look into that. But I also feel as though it would look better to do the CC-transfer route... at this point all of my friends that started with me have graduated so that's a sad feeling and I feel like I've literally been here for ages. But aside from my feelings, I don't know if a total rebound from CC-transfer would look worse (i think it would look better?) than if I stayed here and improved. I mean I feel like it would look more impressive rather than trying to improve my credentials and gpa here in the next 2 years.. but I don't know what would be best if that situation were plausible. I could increase my gpa by taking a single summer course that costs 3-4k, do well, and increase my gpa to above 2.0 to get aid for fall for example. But again I'm pretty sure this is final :/ I will look into it for sure though.

lol...because I have ESP.

No, it's because Cornell is the largest Ivy, and likely would be the school that would let a student like you fall thru the cracks.

If you can appeal Cornell to give you another chance, then that would be best because C is a school that promises to meet need. My concern is that as a transfer student later, you're going to find it harder to get into a school that meets need....and then you'll be stuck without a degree.

 

[Affiche]

Actually it is very uncommon for schools to meet 100% of need. And, sadly, that's not what EFC really means...it's a misnnomer used by the feds. Expected Family Contribution essentially means nothing. If you attended schools that met need with a 0 EFC, then you may have gone to schools that used CSS Profile (did you?) or you went to a UC or similar.


And, yes, you were able to get declared independent after age 18 because you were homeless in high school. And, YES, that was given to you AFTER you turned 18....BECAUSE you were able to provide evidence that you were homeless before 18.

That is a HUGE difference. A student cannot just claim estrangement after the age of majority, unless the abandonent or homelessness occurred before age 18. The decision for the student to be independent is often made AFTER age 18, but the situation had to occur before 18....except for the few exceptions already mentioned.


There are no more Perkins loans after this year.

The "supplementing with grants" other than Pell and SEOG is only done at univ that have their OWN funds to give, and most do not.


Here is an example of an Independent student at Penn State with a 0 EFC. PSU is a very fine univ in our country, I'm sure you'd agree. Look at the HUGE gap that is given to a poor person.


View attachment 198617

I don't know how I can lay this out any more clearly to you: I did not provide evidence that I was homeless before the age of 18 because I didn't have any. I wasn't estranged until the week after I turned 18, and I wasn't granted independent status until almost a year later. I get that your parent is involved with financial aid and you seem relatively knowledgeable, but you're wrong on some of the facts here. FAFSA had no idea that I was homeless in high school, only my university did. There was a small gap in my need initially, but it was quickly filled once I met with and adviser and explained my situation, which is where I learned about the funds reserved for students like me and the OP. Please don't tell me what my process to obtain independence looked like because quite frankly, you don't know anything about the process I went through.

And no, I did not attend a UC.

 

[SOMBound13]

FAFSA had no idea that I was homeless in high school, only my university did

FAFSA is an application. It has "no idea" about anything. It's the FA officers at the schools whose job it is to verify "Independents" who are under age 24. It's the FA officers job to verify all the info on FAFSA that can't be verified thru retrieved tax forms.

You had the required elements, so no problem. The OP does not likely have qualifying elements, particularly since she has been using her parents' info for the last 2+ years.

Yes, your university is the one who had to verify for the federal government that you had been homeless while you were in high school. Doesn't matter a whit that it was a year later or two years later or X years later.

did you attend a FAFSA only school? Or did it also require CSS Profile?

 

[lookaprettyflower]

lol...because I have ESP.

No, it's because Cornell is the largest Ivy, and likely would be the school that would let a student like you fall thru the cracks.

If you can appeal Cornell to give you another chance, then that would be best because C is a school that promises to meet need. My concern is that as a transfer student later, you're going to find it harder to get into a school that meets need....and then you'll be stuck without a degree.

That is what terrifies me. I'd be okay with student loans, but I'm not sure if that's part of need. My family finances are so low and I applied only to unis that had a lot of fin aid to give, so I never had to deal with that stuff in depth. But for someone who is poor that gets into a school that doesn't promise to meet need, don't they take out student loans?

 

[lookaprettyflower]

The list of need blind colleges to transfer into isn't that long....eep...they're also all really good unis. So this means I also have to get into a needblind school from a community college.
This feels hopeless.

 

[lookaprettyflower]

The list of need blind colleges to transfer into isn't that long....eep...they're also all really good unis. So this means I also have to get into a needblind school from a community college.
This feels hopeless.

but then again I've already gotten into a handful of them in highschool. I wonder if trying to tranfer into them would be easier then, or harder,or if it even matters. SIGH

 

[SOMBound13]

That is what terrifies me. I'd be okay with student loans, but I'm not sure if that's part of need. My family finances are so low and I applied only to unis that had a lot of fin aid to give, so I never had to deal with that stuff in depth. But for someone who is poor that gets into a school that doesn't promise to meet need, don't they take out student loans?

Not beyond the federal amounts, which aren't a lot. Private loans would require a qualified co-signer.

Yes, at most schools, federal student loans are used in FA pkgs towards "need," but those loans often do not meet need, particularly for low income students.

 

[Affiche]

FAFSA is an application. It has "no idea" about anything. It's the FA officers at the schools whose job it is to verify "Independents" who are under age 24. It's the FA officers job to verify all the info on FAFSA that can't be verified thru retrieved tax forms.

You had the required elements, so no problem. The OP does not likely have qualifying elements, particularly since she has been using her parents' info for the last 2+ years.

Yes, your university is the one who had to verify for the federal government that you had been homeless while you were in high school. Doesn't matter a whit that it was a year later or two years later or X years later.

did you attend a FAFSA only school? Or did it also require CSS Profile?

You're assuming a few things about my background which are false, and I think it's confusing you. I was homeless after I turned 18 but I was still in high school at the time, hence why I stated I wasn't estranged until after I turned 18. Idk why you keep stating that it was my estrangement prior to age 18 that got me independence, because I wasn't even estranged then, which I've stated. I had none of the "required elements" that you're referencing. I had no evidence to show my financial aid adviser, just what I could tell her, and she decided to help me close the gap in my aid package. The process for obtaining independent status was entirely different, arduous, and filled with people who are completely baffled by true cases of independence after age 18 which slowed down the process, which is why I'm getting frustrated trying to explain it here.

 

[SOMBound13]

The list of need blind colleges to transfer into isn't that long....eep...they're also all really good unis. So this means I also have to get into a needblind school from a community college.
This feels hopeless.

this is why, if possible, you need to appeal to Cornell. It has the finances (huge endowment) to provide the funds for your education. You're a URM. I'm nearly certain that they really don't want a URM failing out of their school.

 

[DokterMom]

I didn't realize you'd already spent so much time at college until reading your "friends that started with me have graduated" statement. So you've already completed 5 semesters in 3.5 years? And have been on academic probation multiple times for 'fresh' poor grades?

And now have a just below 2.0? I'm sorry, but that's a pretty deep hole to dig yourself out of. And while Cornell may not have given you the support you needed (sounds like they didn't, which was wrong) it does sound like they gave you a few second chances already. If you can appeal, try it, because a Cornell degree will open doors for you. But I'm not as optimistic as I was when I thought it was only 3 semesters down.

At this point then, my suggestion would be to transfer to a much less expensive state school (4 yr) and get that BS degree. (I don't see how transferring to a prestigious college is really an option.) Then wait a few years, get some more work experience and maturity behind you while allowing your previous poor grades to get stale. THEN do grade rehab, claim "young and stupid + really tough circumstances + lack of support" and apply DO.

I don't see what a CC -- even a good one -- will do for you, since it won't get you that BA/BS.

 

[Goro]

You know what she meant. It's not helpful to be 100% literal here. My 12 year does this when he's angry.

FAFSA is an application. It has "no idea" about anything. It's the FA officers at the schools whose job it is to verify "Independents" who are under age 24. It's the FA officers job to verify all the info on FAFSA that can't be verified thru retrieved tax forms.

 

[AirplaneFruit]

Was it Penn or Cornell? I can't imagine it happening at the others

Edit: Oops sorry didn't read the first page.

I can't imagine it happening at HYP; you literally can't fail at Brown; Columbia has core curriculum; and Dartmouth is small enough to devote resources to all students.

 

[lookaprettyflower]

this is why, if possible, you need to appeal to Cornell. It has the finances (huge endowment) to provide the funds for your education. You're a URM. I'm nearly certain that they really don't want a URM failing out of their school.

I thi

I didn't realize you'd already spent so much time at college until reading your "friends that started with me have graduated" statement. So you've already completed 5 semesters in 3.5 years? And have been on academic probation multiple times for 'fresh' poor grades?

And now have a just below 2.0? I'm sorry, but that's a pretty deep hole to dig yourself out of. And while Cornell may not have given you the support you needed (sounds like they didn't, which was wrong) it does sound like they gave you a few second chances already. If you can appeal, try it, because a Cornell degree will open doors for you. But I'm not as optimistic as I was when I thought it was only 3 semesters down.

At this point then, my suggestion would be to transfer to a much less expensive state school (4 yr) and get that BS degree. (I don't see how transferring to a prestigious college is really an option.) Then wait a few years, get some more work experience and maturity behind you while allowing your previous poor grades to get stale. THEN do grade rehab, claim "young and stupid + really tough circumstances + lack of support" and apply DO.

I don't see what a CC -- even a good one -- will do for you, since it won't get you that BA/BS.

If it helps at all- my first semester was at the end just 9 credits since I couldn't handle the 20. My second semester was 13 credits. My 3rd was withdrawn. 4th was semi-improvement- I took 4 classes and got a 2.7. I'm in my 5th. So overall I don't have many credits under my belt.
Semester 1-2 I didn't know what was going on. I didn't understand how badly my background and lack of preparedness from that was into play.
Semester 3- I was actually sick and withdrew. They didnt like my health leave so put me in probation for semester 4 to monitor me after my suspension.
Semester 4- On probation because I came back from suspension. Again my suspension didn't do anything because I was homeless during it. Improved grades.
semester 5 (Now)- Improvement and normal grades, but on probation because my cumulative gpa still not up (not fresh poor grades)
:/

 

[Affiche]

You know what she meant. It's not helpful to be 100% literal here. My 12 year does this when he's angry.

Right. I meant that based on my FAFSA, there was no evidence that I was actually independent because I didn't have any to provide. I had to go through a very long and arduous process that included multiple affidavits and appeals to gain independent status.

It's ridiculous that this kid is attempting to tell me what my process was when he knows nothing about my case or this process in general. Being related to someone who has credentials doesn't give you credentials, and from my experience, most fin aid officers are only loosely familiar with the rules of estrangement anyway (hence all the appeals I had to go through).

My point is that it's entirely possible to be classified as independent if your family situation changes after you turn 18, leaving you to fend for yourself. It's a really small percentage of undergraduate students who actually qualify (less than half a percent), but it's completely worth going through the process if it gets you the funds you need. A lot of people just haven't heard of cases like this and they aren't familiar with the process, but the support is there.

 

[lookaprettyflower]

DoktorMom-I was thinking that a CC would allow me to show a semi-prestigious or prestigious uni that is need-blind that I'm an URM who had classic socioeconomic issues and was resilient enough to keep trying, never give up, and show improvement and a ton of personal self-growth. I would think that is something an undergraduate university would appreciate?

 

[SOMBound13]

DoktorMom-I was thinking that a CC would allow me to show a semi-prestigious or prestigious uni that is need-blind that I'm an URM who had classic socioeconomic issues and was resilient enough to keep trying, never give up, and show improvement and a ton of personal self-growth. I would think that is something an undergraduate university would appreciate?

I think Bryn Mawr and Smith have programs for students like that. Even Cornell meets need for transfers. I wonder if your appeal is denied, IF you were able to "prove" yourself at a CC for a semester or two, if C would let you transfer back in.

 

[lookaprettyflower]

I think Bryn Mawr and Smith have programs for students like that. Even Cornell meets need for transfers. I wonder if your appeal is denied, IF you were able to "prove" yourself at a CC for a semester or two, if C would let you transfer back in.

I looked at a list of unis that are need blind to transfers. Some, like Syracuse U, actually have arrangements with a list of CC's to allow transfer in after certain academic guidelines are met within that CC. But looking into transferring back in after "proving myself" is def a great idea. I could do a winter session and summer session course at Cornell also with waitressing money the year away.. but only if this route even exists haha. I will make sure to find out

 

[DokterMom]

Also look at Tompkins CCC -- Cornell likes them.

 

[SOMBound13]

If you are only 20 years old it will be very difficult for you to prove that you are an independent student, regardless of your parents being in your life or not.

My single parent passed away while I was in high school and my only other living parent has been institutionalized since I was 8 years old, and it was incredibly difficult for me to prove that I was an independent student.

I totally understand why an FA Officer used Professional Judgement (PJ) to approve your Independent status for FAFSA. It was the right thing to do in your circumstance. Your primary custodial parent had died, (very sorry to learn that), and your other parent had been institutionalized for much of your life (this would fall into a similar area as when a parent is incarcerated). Once you provided proof of your custodial parent's death and your other parent's situation, the FA officer really should have acted faster in using PJ, and not put you thru so much. I'm glad that you attended an undergrad with a strong endowment that is generous to its instate students.

 

[Affiche]

Super creepy that you dug deep enough to find that and thought it was appropriate to repost here, because it wasn't.

I'm not going to give any more details about my familial situation other than to clarify that I did have to use affidavits to demonstrate estrangement from my living parent and we weren't estranged until after I turned 18. Institutionalization can be voluntary because of mental health, so it is not the same thing as incarceration at all. I mean this in the nicest way possible: please stop making comments about personal situations that you have no experience with.