Graduating fellows....any advantage of going into PP instead of hospital employee?

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chudat

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Hospital employee jobs seem to trump PP jobs in every facet of the game. Higher starting pay, check. Less risk for the new physician, check. Strong in network referral system, check. Better retirement vehicles, check. I don't see how pp groups are able to recruit any fellows. Hospitals are reimbursed more for procedures too; I don't understand how pp pain groups can survive in this environment.

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Just like the stock market, when everyone tells you something is a sure bet, it is probably too late to follow that advice and you should do the opposite.

Having said that, everyone's situation is different. Yes, hospital employment definitely has its benefits, but you will also be at the mercy of hospital administrators. Don't get me wrong. Private practice has its own issues, but I rather do what I feel is best for patients rather than listen to administrators tell me how I should be practicing.
 
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Just like the stock market, when everyone tells you something is a sure bet, it is probably too late to follow that advice and you should do the opposite.

Having said that, everyone's situation is different. Yes, hospital employment definitely has its benefits, but you will also be at the mercy of hospital administrators. Don't get me wrong. Private practice has its own issues, but I rather do what I feel is best for patients rather than listen to administrators tell me how I should be practicing.

I feel like most hospital admin don't care what you do as long as you are bringing in the wrvus and have no complaints against you...all they care about is the $
 
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Nothing wrong with a solid hospital job.

All the hospitals I interviewed with wanted me to do inpatient pain consults. One was a hospital that already had one pain physician, I discovered for the last 2 years she had done zero fluoroscopic-guided procedures because the IR guys refused to give up any fluoro time. Sometimes hospitals like the idea of an interventional pain physician but don't provide the support to help you thrive.
 
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Agree that a hospital job can be decent job with better than average pay if...........

1- they do not require you to do inpatient pain consults
2- You have no issues getting fluoro time (per Agast post above)
3- Administration is hands off and let you do your thing as long as you bring in $$$ for the hospital.
 
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I think a lot depends on your personality, desires, and goals.

Some doctors are best institutionalized.

But some of us are beasts of the wild, broncos that won't be branded by hospital administrators, herded into endless meetings, and prodded down a chute toward inpatient consultations. Told when it's time to feed, piss, and stool. Then lashed when we don't meet arbitrary measures against variables we have no control over. And some that we do, but instinct compels us to buck.

Neigh.
 
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I think a lot depends on your personality, desires, and goals.

Some doctors are best institutionalized.

But some of us are beasts of the wild, broncos that won't be branded by hospital administrators, herded into endless meetings, and prodded down a chute toward inpatient consultations. Told when it's time to feed, piss, and stool. Then lashed when we don't meet arbitrary measures against variables we have no control over. And some that we do, but instinct compels us to buck.

Neigh.
I must be the bronco that they can’t get a saddle on.
 
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Hospital employee jobs seem to trump PP jobs in every facet of the game. Higher starting pay, check. Less risk for the new physician, check. Strong in network referral system, check. Better retirement vehicles, check. I don't see how pp groups are able to recruit any fellows. Hospitals are reimbursed more for procedures too; I don't understand how pp pain groups can survive in this environment.

We need more doctors choosing independence.
 
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Hospital employee jobs seem to trump PP jobs in every facet of the game. Higher starting pay, check. Less risk for the new physician, check. Strong in network referral system, check. Better retirement vehicles, check. I don't see how pp groups are able to recruit any fellows. Hospitals are reimbursed more for procedures too; I don't understand how pp pain groups can survive in this environment.

How do you think Hospitals can afford to do that? Where to you think that the money comes from?
 
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I don’t really know if any of those “checks” are true.
 
I dont understand the hate toward inpt consults. In fellowship, yes, I get it, inpt sucks. But as an attending, doesn't inpt consults just mean extra wrvus?
 
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How do you think Hospitals can afford to do that? Where to you think that the money comes from?
This is what I don't understand. Hospital are paid more by insurance based on sos differences and therefore are able to pay their pain physicians higher and squeeze out pp, no?
 
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I dont understand the hate toward inpt consults. In fellowship, yes, I get it, inpt sucks. But as an attending, doesn't inpt consults just mean extra wrvus?

How much is your time worth?

On a given hour in clinic, how much income do you generate? How about a given hour in ASC?

Now, what amount of time does it take for you to see, evaluate, and write a note for an inpatient?

Unless your desperately not busy The math ain’t in your favor
 
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I dont understand the hate toward inpt consults. In fellowship, yes, I get it, inpt sucks. But as an attending, doesn't inpt consults just mean extra wrvus?

It's a lot of work to round before or after clinic.. however with appropriate mid-level support, it can certainly be a decent set up. I have an independent NP that sees consults M-F by herself. We don't have weekend coverage. If she calls me for a complicated consult, then I bill those wrvus. If she doesnt call me, she bills herself.. Seems to work well for both of us.
 
I dont understand the hate toward inpt consults. In fellowship, yes, I get it, inpt sucks. But as an attending, doesn't inpt consults just mean extra wrvus?

Unless inpatient consults have changed in the last 20 years when I last worked in a hospital, they are usually either the patient with chronic LBP who collapsed on the street from the combo of percs, booze and whatever they could find who now is terrorizing everyone on the ward or the perc addict who had some type of elective surgery without any consideration of how the chronic opioid use would impact postop management. The consult is so YOU can deal with their belligerent behavior and stop by every day to engage in conflict. “ A service to the medical staff that is part of your obligation”. Yuk.
 
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This is what I don't understand. Hospital are paid more by insurance based on sos differences and therefore are able to pay their pain physicians higher and squeeze out pp, no?

At some point you have to bring the moral dimension into the analysis. Is it right for hospitals to employ doctors? A little more than a generation ago, doctors would have uniformly opposed it for reasons related to autonomy, conflicts of interest, and patient care.
 
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You will not make money but lose money doing inpatient consults. And don’t forget the calls you will get in the middle of the night. For a few rvus? No thanks. Especially when most have a cap on their rvus anyways.. time is money. Only way I would do inpatient is for a stipend. Say 50k a year or something. Trust me what seems like a good idea at noon won’t feel the same at 0230.
 
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I get one or two in patient consults a year. Usually a patient with a comp fx that I set up for kypho the day of discharge.
 
Different strokes for different folks especially during different parts of their careers.

Assuming....
  • no pressure by hospital to increase wRVUs (salaried near 50-75% MGMA data)
  • no nights
  • residents and midlevels to cover inpatient consults and field calls overnight
  • very generous retirement benefits which are easily transferred + standard medical benefits
  • not a lot of vacation time (ie 4-6 weeks) :(
  • relaxed days on inpatient pain (can read, study, take meetings, go home early)
  • for new grads ability to:
    • refine/perfect talking to patients and referring physicians​
    • get feet wet in fluoro space​
    • speed up doing ultrasound procedures​
    • build up online reviews​
    • learn more about billing​
    • go to courses and CMEs​
    • take time to scope out practices or real estate offices​
    • increase net worth to be able to transition to pp easier​
What are your thoughts of taking a position like this for a few years then seeing if private practice is the way to go?
 
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Different strokes for different folks especially during different parts of their careers.

Assuming....
  • no pressure by hospital to increase wRVUs (salaried near 50-75% MGMA data)
  • no nights
  • residents and midlevels to cover inpatient consults and field calls overnight
  • very generous retirement benefits which are easily transferred + standard medical benefits
  • not a lot of vacation time (ie 4-6 weeks) :(
  • relaxed days on inpatient pain (can read, study, take meetings, go home early)
  • for new grads ability to:
    • refine/perfect talking to patients and referring physicians​
    • get feet wet in fluoro space​
    • speed up doing ultrasound procedures​
    • build up online reviews​
    • learn more about billing​
    • go to courses and CMEs​
    • take time to scope out practices or real estate offices​
    • increase net worth to be able to transition to pp easier​
What are your thoughts of taking a position like this for a few years then seeing if private practice is the way to go?
you will have a no-compete clause in your contract in any area within 5-10 miles of your hospital and their satellites.
 
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I know Drusso knows this but for those that don’t they have to modify your contract to add things like that. And you have to sign the modification. They have not asked us to sign any modifications at least at this point. Even with Corona I made the hospital a lot of money on top of my salary and even after paying nurses and overhead. I don’t think they are looking to chase people away right now.
 
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Different strokes for different folks especially during different parts of their careers.

Assuming....
  • no pressure by hospital to increase wRVUs (salaried near 50-75% MGMA data)
  • no nights
  • residents and midlevels to cover inpatient consults and field calls overnight
  • very generous retirement benefits which are easily transferred + standard medical benefits
  • not a lot of vacation time (ie 4-6 weeks) :(
  • relaxed days on inpatient pain (can read, study, take meetings, go home early)
  • for new grads ability to:
    • refine/perfect talking to patients and referring physicians​
    • get feet wet in fluoro space​
    • speed up doing ultrasound procedures​
    • build up online reviews​
    • learn more about billing​
    • go to courses and CMEs​
    • take time to scope out practices or real estate offices​
    • increase net worth to be able to transition to pp easier​
What are your thoughts of taking a position like this for a few years then seeing if private practice is the way to go?
This sounds like an amazing job.
 
This sounds like an amazing job.
I agree.

I don't bring it up to brag.

I bring it up because I am inexperienced and likely am overlooking a major 'gotcha' (ie non-compete, 'salary' won't really be a salary, maybe the pay isn't as good as pp etc)

Maybe a smarter or more experienced person could bring to light some thing I'm overlooking and then future people could avoid those mistakes, too.
 
This sounds like an amazing job.
Those are the pluses:
Minus are:
if rads controls xray time or X-ray time is in the main OR and the techs are controlled by rads
Department with non interventionalist(PM&R problem) or researcher... can drain your compensation
Non academic hospital trying to pay academic price
Non supportive admin for growth or coloring outside the lines(search board for people trying add stims or kypho)
Hired by other department(ortho or NSGY) to compete with anesthesia/pain (more of a PMR problem)
Artificial ceiling in compensation (meaning if you get busy they add another)
 
Honestly the minuses will be hard to know until you start. That’s just how it is.. you may be forced to see less than desireable referrals.. told how to do procedures by neurosurgery or they won’t send procedures and on and on. There is only one definite and that is there are negatives at every job. I have had four different jobs and that’s the one constant.
 
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How do pp compete with hospitals? Less reimbursement for all procedures because sos differences. No in network referrals.

Can any pp guys explain?
 
PP guys can do all kinds of thing like buying into surgery centers.. I’ve even seen one that owned the hospital. PI work, owning your building and renting out space and on and on. They can actually make more money but it’s getting harder and harder to do in reality.
 
Those are the pluses:
Minus are:
if rads controls xray time or X-ray time is in the main OR and the techs are controlled by rads
Department with non interventionalist(PM&R problem) or researcher... can drain your compensation
Non academic hospital trying to pay academic price
Non supportive admin for growth or coloring outside the lines(search board for people trying add stims or kypho)
Hired by other department(ortho or NSGY) to compete with anesthesia/pain (more of a PMR problem)
Artificial ceiling in compensation (meaning if you get busy they add another)
Great stuff right here.

It is true....
  • The admin has trouble seeing the potential for growth of colouring outside the lines.
  • There is another department that competes for surgeon's referals (they do med mgmt but who knows maybe they'll start doing procedures in the future? Hard to predict)
  • There is an artifical ceiling in a way. For example, if one is starting out then they'll likely get paid more than they'll bring in. However, with time, I'm sure that person will be bring the hospital lots of $$$ and still be getting paid the same.
  • Therefore, I'd say short term it is a sweet deal but long term it is unknown or has a limited upside.
Honestly the minuses will be hard to know until you start. That’s just how it is.. you may be forced to see less than desireable referrals.. told how to do procedures by neurosurgery or they won’t send procedures and on and on. There is only one definite and that is there are negatives at every job. I have had four different jobs and that’s the one constant.
Well said. Gotta jump in and see for oneself. Time will tell. Won't try to make any major moves (mortgage, vacations, extravagant lifestyle creeps etc) until things are settled and aspects are revealed.

PP guys can do all kinds of thing like buying into surgery centers.. I’ve even seen one that owned the hospital. PI work, owning your building and renting out space and on and on. They can actually make more money but it’s getting harder and harder to do in reality.
Another true downside -> no ownership of ASC or PI work. However, this job allows one to join the MPN and get practice writing reports, doing exams, and interfacing with attorneys.
The ceiling is a lot higher for private practice.
Agreed. However, for short term, this type of gig might set up one so they're more prepared on day one....so they can ultimately hit that higher ceiling.

Thank you for your thoughts and for speaking up.
 
Those are the pluses:
Minus are:
if rads controls xray time or X-ray time is in the main OR and the techs are controlled by rads
Department with non interventionalist(PM&R problem) or researcher... can drain your compensation
Non academic hospital trying to pay academic price
Non supportive admin for growth or coloring outside the lines(search board for people trying add stims or kypho)
Hired by other department(ortho or NSGY) to compete with anesthesia/pain (more of a PMR problem)
Artificial ceiling in compensation (meaning if you get busy they add another)
Don’t forget about having to see Medicaid pain patients.
 
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How do pp compete with hospitals? Less reimbursement for all procedures because sos differences. No in network referrals.

Can any pp guys explain?
In general, most PP PCPs, surgeons, etc. would rather send referrals to other PP docs than to the hospital. We can choose what insurances we accept and refuse (i.e. Medicaid). We have more control over our staff. Good luck trying to get rid of that lazy, long-tenured nurse if they try to make your life difficult. PP, in general, is more efficient so one can see more patients and do more procedures in the same amount of time. We have the ability to own ancillary services, real estate, ASC shares, etc. and control our work schedules not to mention freedom from administrative control. No way I would ever go back to a hospital.
 
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How do pp compete with hospitals? Less reimbursement for all procedures because sos differences. No in network referrals.

Can any pp guys explain?
Hospitals definitely have the upper hand, but remember that just because the procedure is paid a lot higher in the hospital setting, that doesn't mean the physician is getting paid more, depends on the setup. Many want to pay the doc the professional fee only and keep the facility fee. Also, hospitals may have in-network referrals, but they can really suck and you have to see them.

PP can compete by being much more efficient. It can be much more satisfying as well because you actually have control over processes, etc.

Yes, hospitals have the upper hand though.
 
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Hospitals definitely have the upper hand, but remember that just because the procedure is paid a lot higher in the hospital setting, that doesn't mean the physician is getting paid more, depends on the setup. Many want to pay the doc the professional fee only and keep the facility fee. Also, hospitals may have in-network referrals, but they can really suck and you have to see them.

PP can compete by being much more efficient. It can be much more satisfying as well because you actually have control over processes, etc.

Yes, hospitals have the upper hand though.
It’s illegal for them to pay the physician the facility fee unless he or she is an owner of the facility.
 
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It’s illegal for them to pay the physician the facility fee unless he or she is an owner of the facility.

Hence why wrvu structure is a good thing when employed. Despite what many say here
 
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Don’t forget about having to see Medicaid pain patients.
Touche. And it always seems like it comes along with more smoking, substance abuse, and opioids.
Hence why wrvu structure is a good thing when employed. Despite what many say here
@paindoc007 Could you explain why it is a good thing and what many other people say? Thanks. I'm genuinely curious to learn more.
 
You can bill everyone of those smoking Medicaid patients for smoking cessation counseling. It is another .14 units I think.

since you are payor blind on wrvu’s you can make money even when what you are doing is losing money. Like injecting Zilretta and billing for smoking cessation on your Medicaid patient. There is more to it than that. I think most of that stuff I have posted about in the private forum.
 
Touche. And it always seems like it comes along with more smoking, substance abuse, and opioids.

@paindoc007 Could you explain why it is a good thing and what many other people say? Thanks. I'm genuinely curious to learn more.

It’s not legal to make facility fees unless we’re owners. How else will you get a fair cut of the pie? $/wrvu is always negotiable
 
You can bill everyone of those smoking Medicaid patients for smoking cessation counseling. It is another .14 units I think.

since you are payor blind on wrvu’s you can make money even when what you are doing is losing money. Like injecting Zilretta and billing for smoking cessation on your Medicaid patient. There is more to it than that. I think most of that stuff I have posted about in the private forum.
Thanks. I'll check it out.
It’s not legal to make facility fees unless we’re owners. How else will you get a fair cut of the pie? $/wrvu is always negotiable
Ah, got it. Thanks, mate.
 
This is my personal answer:

As a NEW fellow getting out, I would advocate you eventually owning your own practice or getting partnership into a practice (latter is harder to do as it requires trust and assuming they'll give you true partnership). With that being said, it is obvious that you cannot open something immediately after training given level of debt and inexperience.

So, you will need most likely employment for 2-3 years.

Now here's the difference between PP and Hospital.

Hospital Pros:
Pays more up front than PP. Covers malpractice and tail. Good benefits, retirement, steady job, etc. Great for experience, referrals, etc.
Hospital Cons:
1 - Administration. I cannot stress enough about this. This is the most annoying part. You are not a respected Physician, you're merely a Ford assembly line worker in their eyes. They will tell you what to do, and if you don't want to do it, now comes the passive aggressiveness and meetings. If they have a certain vision, that's it. They'll falsely have a meeting with you telling you what your thoughts are, you're really supposed to say it's a "great idea" and you're "willing with work it."
2- Everything is about productivity; ie hamster going around the wheel. Look around, see the physicians who are 45, chances are, they're exhausted, miserable, and feel "Stuck." You also aren't getting any benefit to this work; you're not owning anything or building equity in anything. Clock in/clock out mentality.
3 - Ultimately a scam. First 1-2 years are "golden cuffs." Solid base to start you off, with productivity goals you're never really made to meet. Once you're off the guarantee, you find yourself working like a dog, constantly to meet/chase "RVUs." That golden 4-6 week vacation? Lasted 2 years, because after that, taking vacation cuts into your RVU productivity numbers.
4 - Some hospitals want call/inpatient consults. Those are brutal, you're better off bailing from that gig.
5 - Sometimes you're forced to work with people you don't agree with clinically.
6 - Inability to control variables or anything with the practice. What you want doesn't mean you'll get it, or it could take forever. Best part? Ultimately when things flop, you will be blamed for why "things aren't growing."
7 - Doesn't matter how much money you bring in, you'll constantly be told you're not bringing in enough revenue. They have to keep that pressure on you to keep producing and working to bring them in money.

Private Practice Pros:
1 - More voice.
2 - What you want, so long as its reasonable in the budget, will happen quickly.
3 - More innovative procedures I've noticed.
4 - No Administration.
5 - You are the Physician amongst the others who own the practice or are employed by the practice. Your voice is often more important. (Assuming this a non-private equity backed gig).

Private Practice Cons:
1 - Less money than Hospital.
2 - I notice many won't cover tail malpractice.
3 - Promise of partnership isn't necessarily true and you can be cut right before you're scheduled to become a partner or have the ability to buy in.
4 - No access to books obviously unless a partner.

At the end of the day; get your experience, then open up your own gig.
 
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If they want you specifically, it can be a great deal with hospital employment. I found it useful to speak to other employed docs regardless of specialty and see what their experience has been in regards to administration etc.
 
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This is my personal answer:

As a NEW fellow getting out, I would advocate you eventually owning your own practice or getting partnership into a practice (latter is harder to do as it requires trust and assuming they'll give you true partnership). With that being said, it is obvious that you cannot open something immediately after training given level of debt and inexperience.

So, you will need most likely employment for 2-3 years.

Now here's the difference between PP and Hospital.

Hospital Pros:
Pays more up front than PP. Covers malpractice and tail. Good benefits, retirement, steady job, etc. Great for experience, referrals, etc.
Hospital Cons:
1 - Administration. I cannot stress enough about this. This is the most annoying part. You are not a respected Physician, you're merely a Ford assembly line worker in their eyes. They will tell you what to do, and if you don't want to do it, now comes the passive aggressiveness and meetings. If they have a certain vision, that's it. They'll falsely have a meeting with you telling you what your thoughts are, you're really supposed to say it's a "great idea" and you're "willing with work it."
2- Everything is about productivity; ie hamster going around the wheel. Look around, see the physicians who are 45, chances are, they're exhausted, miserable, and feel "Stuck." You also aren't getting any benefit to this work; you're not owning anything or building equity in anything. Clock in/clock out mentality.
3 - Ultimately a scam. First 1-2 years are "golden cuffs." Solid base to start you off, with productivity goals you're never really made to meet. Once you're off the guarantee, you find yourself working like a dog, constantly to meet/chase "RVUs." That golden 4-6 week vacation? Lasted 2 years, because after that, taking vacation cuts into your RVU productivity numbers.
4 - Some hospitals want call/inpatient consults. Those are brutal, you're better off bailing from that gig.
5 - Sometimes you're forced to work with people you don't agree with clinically.
6 - Inability to control variables or anything with the practice. What you want doesn't mean you'll get it, or it could take forever. Best part? Ultimately when things flop, you will be blamed for why "things aren't growing."
7 - Doesn't matter how much money you bring in, you'll constantly be told you're not bringing in enough revenue. They have to keep that pressure on you to keep producing and working to bring them in money.

Private Practice Pros:
1 - More voice.
2 - What you want, so long as its reasonable in the budget, will happen quickly.
3 - More innovative procedures I've noticed.
4 - No Administration.
5 - You are the Physician amongst the others who own the practice or are employed by the practice. Your voice is often more important. (Assuming this a non-private equity backed gig).

Private Practice Cons:
1 - Less money than Hospital.
2 - I notice many won't cover tail malpractice.
3 - Promise of partnership isn't necessarily true and you can be cut right before you're scheduled to become a partner or have the ability to buy in.
4 - No access to books obviously unless a partner.

At the end of the day; get your experience, then open up your own gig.

I see you put “less money than hospital” as a con for PP. it seems to me that PP had a lower starting but a much higher ceiling, particularly when ownership of ancillaries or surgical facilities is factored in.
 
This is my personal answer:

As a NEW fellow getting out, I would advocate you eventually owning your own practice or getting partnership into a practice (latter is harder to do as it requires trust and assuming they'll give you true partnership). With that being said, it is obvious that you cannot open something immediately after training given level of debt and inexperience.

So, you will need most likely employment for 2-3 years.

Now here's the difference between PP and Hospital.

Hospital Pros:
Pays more up front than PP. Covers malpractice and tail. Good benefits, retirement, steady job, etc. Great for experience, referrals, etc.
Hospital Cons:
1 - Administration. I cannot stress enough about this. This is the most annoying part. You are not a respected Physician, you're merely a Ford assembly line worker in their eyes. They will tell you what to do, and if you don't want to do it, now comes the passive aggressiveness and meetings. If they have a certain vision, that's it. They'll falsely have a meeting with you telling you what your thoughts are, you're really supposed to say it's a "great idea" and you're "willing with work it."
2- Everything is about productivity; ie hamster going around the wheel. Look around, see the physicians who are 45, chances are, they're exhausted, miserable, and feel "Stuck." You also aren't getting any benefit to this work; you're not owning anything or building equity in anything. Clock in/clock out mentality.
3 - Ultimately a scam. First 1-2 years are "golden cuffs." Solid base to start you off, with productivity goals you're never really made to meet. Once you're off the guarantee, you find yourself working like a dog, constantly to meet/chase "RVUs." That golden 4-6 week vacation? Lasted 2 years, because after that, taking vacation cuts into your RVU productivity numbers.
4 - Some hospitals want call/inpatient consults. Those are brutal, you're better off bailing from that gig.
5 - Sometimes you're forced to work with people you don't agree with clinically.
6 - Inability to control variables or anything with the practice. What you want doesn't mean you'll get it, or it could take forever. Best part? Ultimately when things flop, you will be blamed for why "things aren't growing."
7 - Doesn't matter how much money you bring in, you'll constantly be told you're not bringing in enough revenue. They have to keep that pressure on you to keep producing and working to bring them in money.

Private Practice Pros:
1 - More voice.
2 - What you want, so long as its reasonable in the budget, will happen quickly.
3 - More innovative procedures I've noticed.
4 - No Administration.
5 - You are the Physician amongst the others who own the practice or are employed by the practice. Your voice is often more important. (Assuming this a non-private equity backed gig).

Private Practice Cons:
1 - Less money than Hospital.
2 - I notice many won't cover tail malpractice.
3 - Promise of partnership isn't necessarily true and you can be cut right before you're scheduled to become a partner or have the ability to buy in.
4 - No access to books obviously unless a partner.

At the end of the day; get your experience, then open up your own gig.

This is well summarized. The only caveat I would say is when you mention hospital employees work like dogs to chase wrvus. That implies PP docs don’t work all that hard, or take tons of free vacation without a worry. Which isn’t true in my experience. EVERYONE works hard. And income is proportional to that in any setting
 
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Basically, every successful doc in the first 10 plus years of their practice has to see patients to make money. It is basically a 1:1 deal be it in units or cash, it all becomes cash in the end.

as you get further in practice medical related but not direct patient care income potential for private practice is much higher. Real estate, employed physicians, etc.
 
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Don’t forget you get paid the rvus whether the hospital does or not.. in PP you only get paid if insurance pays.
 
I see you put “less money than hospital” as a con for PP. it seems to me that PP had a lower starting but a much higher ceiling, particularly when ownership of ancillaries or surgical facilities is factored in.
I was speaking in terms of a new fellow getting out; initially PP pays less. But yes, 100% I agree with you. Overall, ceiling is much higher for PP.
 
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